Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'? From: Backwoodsman Date: 31 Jul 08 - 08:08 AM GUEST Baz - "A penny coin was one 144th part of an old English pound." It was one 240th. 12 pence = 1 shilling. 20 shillings = 1 pound. 12*20 = 240. Apologies for the thread creep and my pedantry. |
Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'? From: ard mhacha Date: 30 Jul 08 - 03:42 PM The bap has been around the Belfast area from Barney Hughes`s bakery `invented`it around the 1850s at that time it was cheap and nourishing for the poor, still as tasty as ever. |
Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'? From: Nigel Parsons Date: 30 Jul 08 - 03:35 PM Brace's soft baps from South Wales |
Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'? From: Nigel Parsons Date: 30 Jul 08 - 03:08 PM I saw a sign in Tesco's recently "Braces soft baps", I thought it should be in the underwear section rather than the bakery! |
Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'? From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 30 Jul 08 - 01:40 PM What? You were never bap-tized? |
Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'? From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 30 Jul 08 - 01:30 PM Suuuuuuuuurrrre! "Oesterreich" is Welch? What I am is a not-so-closet pedant, and I hate to see a reference book misunderstood or misused. In fact I have never seen, let alone eaten, a bap, in England, Scotland, Ireland, or Wales. In fact I've never been in any of those places. I'd love to try one, though! Dave Oesterreich |
Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'? From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 30 Jul 08 - 12:20 PM Hmmm, is Dave a closet Welshman? I must confess that my grandmother made 'baps,' she was Irish but born in U. S. Baps perhaps spread from their Scottish birthplace. |
Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'? From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 30 Jul 08 - 10:54 AM Q, you quoted OED, presumably as a limiting factor on the geographical reach of baps. Remember that, despite the great respect due to the OED, a dictionary is not and never has been a prescriptive or legislative authority, and may well not be exhaustive on a given word. A dictionary is a report of what the dictionary maker(s) gather actual usage to be, and such reports are not infrequently in error. This includes even the OED along with other dictionaries. Dave Oesterreich |
Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'? From: pavane Date: 30 Jul 08 - 03:17 AM They don't taste bogus |
Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'? From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 29 Jul 08 - 07:50 PM OED Bap Sc [Scottish] a small loaf or 'roll' of baker's bread, made of various sizes and shapes in different parts of Scotland. A quote fron 1513-75, another from 1800. Welsh ones are bogus. |
Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'? From: Ned Ludd Date: 29 Jul 08 - 06:43 PM Ahh! claiming baps for the welsh! fine cos theyre a lanky thing anyhow, but don't get me started on baps, barmcakes and teacakes! Ned. |
Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'? From: GUEST,ruth Date: 29 Jul 08 - 03:04 PM A bap is a Welsh bunlike roll with soft crust and almost like a milk loaf inside. The best ever were produced by pinch bakery in Abergavenny both in triangular shape and round. The triangles were by far the best although it was the same dough I think. those days have goneI'm afraid- baps are still made commercially but they are nothing like the one from Pinch Bakery. For our family they were almost legendary and were anticipated long before the plane from JFK touched down in the UK. We usually had them for lunch with ham, Caerphilly cheese and pickle, and often lettuce as well-AND Welsh farmhouse butter! Yum!. |
Subject: RE: What's a 'penny bap'? From: MartinRyan Date: 19 Mar 06 - 01:45 PM Guest Have a look HERE Regards |
Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'falorie man'? From: GUEST Date: 18 Mar 06 - 08:45 PM What is "falorie" in the song Wee Falorie Man? |
Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'? From: alison Date: 20 Mar 00 - 12:06 AM refreshed for the boys in hearme who loved your song Seamus, I sang it with a bodhran accompaniment slainte alison |
Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'? From: Seamus Kennedy Date: 18 Mar 00 - 02:03 AM Alison, I just got in from a gig and I'm knackered now, and I'm going to leap into the oul' pit, but tomorrow I'm getting the pan on, and having myself a fry too. ALl the best. Seamus |
Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'? From: alison Date: 17 Mar 00 - 11:19 PM Great song Seamus... (it fit the tune of Eric Bogle's - Aussie Barbecue, pretty well too)..... I was out doing a gig last night (St Pat's in Oz) and didn't get a chance to cook... so tonight we're having........ Ulster Fry and Champ..... slainte alison |
Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'? From: Margaret V Date: 17 Mar 00 - 04:30 PM One of my absolute favorite books is "English Bread and Yeast Cookery" by Elizabeth David. She was an amazing food historian and this book is full of great recipes drawn from several centuries (NOT, I might add, bowdlerized!) and thorough historical information about each type of bread and its raw ingredients. She has a few pages on baps (English and Scottish references), including recipes with and without the lard and sugar. Another book you money-ponderers might like to know about is "How Much is That in Real Money" by Grant McCusker. It's an intelligent look at pounds and dollars etc. etc. in times past and ways of figuring their equivalents. Jon, thanks so much for the great Welsh food site! |
Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'? From: MMario Date: 17 Mar 00 - 03:41 PM I suspect that may be why the shift..... |
Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'? From: jeffp Date: 17 Mar 00 - 03:37 PM The way I learned it, it was spelled "rarebit" but pronounced "rabbit". No claim to being right, just stirring the cheese a (rare)bit more. jeffp |
Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'? From: MMario Date: 17 Mar 00 - 03:30 PM ~sorry~ I actually did a term paper on the word "rarebit" in college. God, the trivia one collects during a lifetime.... |
Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'? From: Bert Date: 17 Mar 00 - 03:23 PM WOBH. Ya got the REAL story there MMario. That's TERRIBLE them PC folks being right after all ;-) I still prefer the 'folk' version though. Thanks. Bert |
Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'? From: MMario Date: 17 Mar 00 - 01:17 PM actually bert, reference to a cheese dish served over toast or bread bits, as a "rarebit" go back to 1285. And "rarebit" is increasingly common the FURTHER back you go from today towards the 13th centurie in dictionaries and cookbooks. "Rarebit" is also used to describe several other dishes which are basically comprised of a sauce over bread sops. It may be coming back into usage as PC, but it is correct in and of itself, and seems to pre-date the usage of "rabbit" to describe such dishes. |
Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'? From: Bert Date: 17 Mar 00 - 11:48 AM There's no real cure, you just have to keep nibbling away at the B@$^@ds. No legal redress either, but it's great fun to 'correct' people back to using authentic non PC language;-) Bert.
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Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'? From: Hyperabid Date: 17 Mar 00 - 11:34 AM Oh I see. Well I used to call it Welsh Rabbit when I was a kid but was constantly corrected and told no the Recipe is Welsh Rarebit. I guess I've been socially bowdlerised! Is there a cure...? Is there any legal redress...? Hyp ;-) |
Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'? From: Wotcha Date: 17 Mar 00 - 11:29 AM Don't forget the English North Country treat: The Chip Butty ... and Jam Butty ... By the way, going South again, a good handmade bap can be found in the sandwich shop in Blandford Forum. Cheers, Eid Mubarak (Again) Brian |
Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'? From: Seamus Kennedy Date: 17 Mar 00 - 11:16 AM Bert, thanks a million. I've gotta learn how to do that myself one of these days. Happy St. Patrick's Day. All the best. Seamus |
Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'? From: Bert Date: 17 Mar 00 - 10:58 AM To Bowdlerize means to change the words to make them more acceptable in polite company. |
Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'? From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler Date: 17 Mar 00 - 05:38 AM Ar, penny baps! Them waz the days! Yo cud get 14 pints of Ansells gnatspiss, a packet of Woodbines, cod and chips, a quick kneetrembler be'ind the gasworks, a latenight tram 'ome and still 'ave change from fourpence... RtS (I love the way so many threads start with music questions and end up as foodie ones!) |
Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'? From: Hyperabid Date: 17 Mar 00 - 04:11 AM Wotsa bowdlerist? |
Subject: Lyr Add: AN ULSTER FRY & CHAMP From: Seamus Kennedy Date: 17 Mar 00 - 03:15 AM God, you get fat just reading this thread! Alison, here are the words to An Ulster Fry & Champ (to the tune of the Sash). I don't know how to do line breaks yet, so I'll make it as intelligible as I can. The Frenchman loves his frogs and snails, And the Welshman likes a leek, The Scots they like their haggis, And the English - bubble and squeak. But when a Belfastman is starvin', And he feels his stomach cramp, He just fills it up with an Ulster Fry, And a great big bowl of Champ. 2nd Verse: I have travelled all around the world, To exotic foreign lands; In cafe and pub I've ate their grub, With choptick, fork or hands, I would trade them all to be on the Falls, Where the weather's could and damp; Sometimes I'd cry for an Ulster Fry, Or a great big bowl of Champ. 3rd verse: Well, and Ulster Fry just makes me sigh, Fried bacon and fried eggs; Fried sausages, fried tatey-bread, Fried tomatoes, it's no geg; Black puddin' and some soda farls, All fried in sizzlin' lard, With a dollop of HP sauce to save Your arteries from gettin' hard! 4th verse: Then you peel the spuds and you boil them up, And you mash them smooth and sweet; Then add scalded milk and scallions chopped, There's a taste that's hard to beat. For a feed of this fine Belfast dish, All around the world I'd tramp. With a lump of butter in a hole on top - That's a great big bowl of champ! 5th verse: So come all ye Belfast exiles, Wherever you may be; Beware those strange exotic foods From Burger King or Mickey D., Don't eat the quarter-pounder or McNuggets from that camp, Put a glint in your eye, demand an Ulster Fry, Or a great big bowl of Champ!
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Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'? From: Linda Kelly Date: 16 Mar 00 - 06:14 PM In Yorkshire the soft roll is a stotty or breadcake, where I am from in warwickshire it was always a batch. In lancashire I think its a barmcake. Isn't English a wonderful language!!! |
Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'? From: Jon Freeman Date: 16 Mar 00 - 06:04 PM Bert, I was only looking for Welsh stuff last night but site itself does give recipies from all parts of the word. They are also part of http://www.geocities.com/NapaValley/2267/recipering.html. I hate cooking but for those that like it there must be plenty out there for everbody. Jon |
Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'? From: Penny S. Date: 16 Mar 00 - 05:47 PM A recipe for "Scotch Bap" from Mary Norwak, with some babies. 1/2 oz fresh yeast (The recipe above should have this quantity) 1/2 pt mixed milk and water, warmed 1 lb strong flour 1 teaspoon salt 2 oz lard
Blend the yeast in the milk and water until dissolved. The large one sounds like a stotty cake to me. Penny |
Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'? From: Penny S. Date: 16 Mar 00 - 01:21 PM And mayo? |
Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'? From: Bert Date: 16 Mar 00 - 01:16 PM Welsh Rarebit, Welsh Rarebit, ideed!, mutter - mutter, It was always WELSH RABBIT 'till the g&^$%#m hoity toity bowdlerists got to it;-) Bert. |
Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'? From: Penny S. Date: 16 Mar 00 - 01:13 PM We're studying the Spartans. I've decided to be laconic. |
Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'? From: Penny S. Date: 16 Mar 00 - 01:08 PM 5 ml |
Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'? From: Bert Date: 16 Mar 00 - 01:01 PM That looks pretty close Penny. Just dust 'em with flour and leave off the thumb print and it will be perfect. And well you should apologise for working in Sillimeters. 450 grams indeed, I'm surprised it wasn't 453.6 ;-) and what the hell is a metric teaspoon? Bert. |
Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'? From: Hyperabid Date: 16 Mar 00 - 12:56 PM Bert I think you mean Welsh Rarebit... It's basically cheese on toast but a good recipe is:- Two slice of granary bread toasted back under the grill covered with a mixture of... Grated strong cheddar cheese A little mayo to bind A teasoonful of wholegrain mustard Freshly ground sea salt and black peppercorns Splash a little Worcetershire sauce on top. Grill til Golden brown. Enjoy and try not to think about cholesterol... Hyp |
Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'? From: Penny S. Date: 16 Mar 00 - 12:42 PM Here's a recipe for Huffkins, until we find a bap one. Contributed by our school secretary, J Chaffey, to our school cookbook (copies still available) Sorry it's metric, but we were under compulsion. It's a straight translation, though. 1.5 g fresh yeast or 1 1/2 teaspoons dried yeast and a pinch of sugar 225 g mixed warm milk and water 450 g plain flour (it doesn't say it should be bread flour) 1 teaspoon salt 2 teaspoons sugar 50 g butter, diced
Preheat the oven to 425 F or 220 C. Penny |
Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'? From: Bert Date: 16 Mar 00 - 11:05 AM Wow! great recipe thread Jon, I'm going to have to try all those. They've even got a recipe for clotted cream. In England, baps were often called Welsh Baps, so I just assumed that they were Welsh. But then again we also ate Welsh Rabbit, so maybe it's just another piece of folklore. Bert. |
Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'? From: AllisonA(Animaterra) Date: 16 Mar 00 - 08:22 AM This is amazing. Ask a simple question and become educated on cross-Atlantic semantics, finer aspects of culinary cuisine, and the origin of the pound vs. dollar! Thanks, all. On to create a new thread: What's a wee falorie man? |
Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'? From: InOBU Date: 16 Mar 00 - 08:02 AM From one of my favorite recitations... Then the B specials in their turret cars came and the three inch bullets fell down just like rain and me old bakery van was pieced front and aback but the baps in the van repeled the attack and they were Hughes, aye, Barney Hughes Aye God bless Barney Hughes and his old Bakery van! |
Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'? From: alison Date: 16 Mar 00 - 07:29 AM Seamus I'd love to see the words of your song please.... I'm a Belfast girl myself........ I still make champ over here..... must make some tomorrow for St Pats.... I'd love a tayto cheese and onion sandwich.. or a big piece of Veda..... or a piece of barm brack toasted with the butter dripping off it........... mmmmmmmmmm recently I found a shop that imports soda and potato bread...... although you can make good potato bread with instant mashed spud powder... hahaha slainte alison |
Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'? From: Ritchie Date: 16 Mar 00 - 06:52 AM Go north young man and hav yesell a bit of 'stotty cake' with real butter filled with ham and peese pudding. Ritchie ( oh how I miss real money when you could buy a ....... and still have change left ....) |
Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'? From: Hyperabid Date: 16 Mar 00 - 06:38 AM Whilst I wouldn't want to discourage debate on the Mudcat, there is a Cambridge University backed site that contains both American English and English dictionaries to help with words that do not translate across the pond. Click here to go to Cambridge International Dictionary Personally I'd recommend that Oxford English Dictionary site as that University was my Alma Mater but this one is free and the OED costs £350.00 per annum. Hyp |
Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'? From: GUEST,murray@mpce.mq.edu.au Date: 16 Mar 00 - 06:25 AM Alison. I have been buying baps in Australia since I came here in '75. Before that I had only heard of them in Josephine Tey book in which her Inspector Grant goes to Scotland and is given a bap; but is told that since the war they no longer have "chew". A bap does not look like a hamburger bun! It looks like a scone that has taken to overeating and doing no exercise. By the way, what is the origin of the word "bap"? Murray |
Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'? From: Muzzer (inactive) Date: 16 Mar 00 - 03:11 AM it's a mutten filled bread bap, the size of a small postage stamp therefore costing only one penny, in Ireland -evefinnerty@hotmail.com |
Subject: RE: Help: What's a 'penny bap'? From: Jon Freeman Date: 16 Mar 00 - 02:47 AM Now Seamus, re-reading and seeing soda, I once stopped near Kildare and the lady who's house I was camping by baked her own soda bread on her peat fueled range. It was delicious! Jon |
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