FUNDING THIS SITE

Subject: FUNDING THIS SITE
From: Peter Timmerman
Date: 17 Jun 97 - 09:33 PM

This is a question and a prod from a frequent beneficiary of this site both to the site owners (Dick, Susan, Max) and to other users. Various recent threads -- and a suggestion by Joe Offer -- have indicated that this site could use some financial support. I was wondering if we could get a sense of whether a small purely voluntary members fee (or whatever you wanted to call it), either a one off or monthly, would be of help; and how it could be arranged (e.g. who to send it to). Also of course whether there is any support out there for such a thing, or maybe some other better ideas to keep this site afloat. I also note that the site has lost its CAMSCO sponsor. Yours, Peter Timmerman

Subject: RE: FUNDING THIS SITE
From:
Date: 17 Jun 97 - 09:52 PM

Peter:

When I started using the Internet last October I chose my service providers option with the minimum flat rate (9 hours/month). Upon discovering DT I had to change my billing algorithm to 35 hrs/month flat rate. Since this is virtually the only site I use significantly I would be quite willing to pay a monthly fee.

Frank Phillips

Subject: RE: FUNDING THIS SITE
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 Jun 97 - 12:27 AM

Well, I'd hate to see a monthly fee because I think it kind of takes away from the spirit of the whole thing, and it adds a commercial aspect that might make us targets of the copyright cops. I'd love to make a donation, though. -Joe-

Subject: RE: FUNDING THIS SITE
From: Ted
Date: 18 Jun 97 - 07:49 AM

Just tell me where to send the cheque

Subject: RE: FUNDING THIS SITE
From: Mike Miller
Date: 18 Jun 97 - 12:39 PM

I agree with the foregoing. I would be willing to kick in to help keep this going. NOT as a fee, but the same way I used to let people have my extra set of guitar strings, or a share of the beer pitcher I'd bought.

Where do I send the help?

Thanks for many hours spent (re)discovering some great words.

Mike [e-mail]

Subject: RE: FUNDING THIS SITE
From: Peter Timmerman
Date: 18 Jun 97 - 02:42 PM

I assume non-profits can have supporters -- like Art Galleries. But a nominal fee was just a sugggestion, I assume a donation would work too. I guess there needs some indication from the team roughly what they might need over the next while, or what they might do with a bit more money, or what they thought was possible. Is it on the order of a couple of hundred dollars or a couple of thousand? Or is it just too much work to ask for, and take in donations/subscriptions? Cafe Team? Yours, Peter

Subject: RE: FUNDING THIS SITE
From: RS
Date: 19 Jun 97 - 05:35 PM

Maybe we could start with some idea of what the $ would be used for, how much is needed to maintain the site as it is, how much would be needed to expand, etc.

Some ideas, in additional to individual contributions: (a) ask visitors to suggest new sponsors; (b) sell advertising spaces; (c) ask for reduced fees e.g. from a service provider ...I understand, for example, that the database search program was provided to the site at reduced cost (?) (d) ask visitors to contribute "in kind", e.g. help with posting new songs, respond to e-mail, write up the News, etc., etc.

Subject: RE: FUNDING THIS SITE
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 19 Jun 97 - 07:44 PM

Hi- The answer to the questions you all have raised is...I don't know. We're trying to figure out a way to afford to spend more time on this project. We're trying to figure out how to make advertising work; after all we have a hell of a lot of people visiting the site each month. We'll be record dealers real soon now. We will NOT be charging for the database or its use-- that's a self-imposed item of our self-imposed charter. We're thinking of having a membership-type club, where membership costs something nominal, and entitles members to discounts from participating advertisers. We're thinking about soliciting contributions---not an approach I'm terribly fond of. We're trying to figure out ways to instill guilt into our visitors so that they'll patronize sponsors, so that sponsors will stay with us. We're looking for ideas and suggestions.

Subject: RE: FUNDING THIS SITE
From:
Date: 22 Jun 97 - 04:30 PM

I do not like advertizers. I do not like memberships. However, I do LOVE the "Mudcat - Delta Blues"

The generosity, kindness, and spirit of the good folk who are attracted to this site is overwhelming. If you ever need funding - simply ask....you will be amazed at the responce. $2, $5, $20, $100 and more will come rolling in - Evita herself would be envious.

Send out the call, my checkbook and hundreds like it are waiting to help.

But - please, Please, PLEASE, don't go COMMERCIAL.

Subject: RE: FUNDING THIS SITE
From: John Patterson
Date: 22 Jun 97 - 04:54 PM

It seems to me that the only people who gain financially from this site or stand to lose money if it disappeared are the various ISP's. If figures are available to show the number of visiters from each of these is it possible they might be persuaded to contribute? It would have to be on a no strings attached agreement though.

Subject: RE: FUNDING THIS SITE
From: Peter Timmerman
Date: 22 Jun 97 - 05:18 PM

One thing I agree with John about is about numbers (alas). Do you have one of those counters that tot up how many visitors you have? You are listed in the top 5%, so it must be pretty high. This must count for something. I don't recall however being able, except at some cost, to break down all ISP visitors. One of the sites I run discussed tracking, and decided it was too intrusive on people's privacy. Yours, Peter

Subject: RE: FUNDING THIS SITE
From:
Date: 23 Jun 97 - 01:36 AM

About being record dealers, does this mean that Camsco would not be back as a sponsor? Exactly what are your plans in this direction? I would like to know before my next batch of purchases.

Subject: RE: FUNDING THIS SITE
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Jun 97 - 03:27 AM

I think dick suggested in another thread that it would be good to continue to patronize Camsco, but to be sure to let them know that we had learned about them through Digital Tradition. After all, they did contribute to our support for at least a while. I was going to order some CD's yesterday and I checked Camsco and they didn't have what I was looking for, so I guess their selection is somewhat limited. Still, they sponsored us for a while, which is more than we can say for a lot of merchants.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: FUNDING THIS SITE
From:
Date: 23 Jun 97 - 11:58 AM

As with all merchants, Camsco looks to spending it's advertising $$$$ the best way possible,especially when they are a small company. If advertising here did not really get them more business, I'm not surprised they stopped. Still, they are good folk (really--Wally is as folkie as they come) and have a lot of hard to find stuff.

If anyone knows of other merchants who might be persuaded to advertise here, perhaps the rates could be lowered and the burden could be more equally distributed! 10 advertisers at 1/2 price is more revenue than 1 or 2 at full price! Now-how to find them!??

Subject: RE: FUNDING THIS SITE
From: Max D. Spiegel
Date: 24 Jun 97 - 10:23 AM

OK, funding...

I do not like advertisers so much. Banner ads are quite common these days, but from a design standpoint, they get in the way. Also, I must personally believe in the product or company, and that just complicates things.

We've kicked around a lot of ideas, a member area was one in which there would be extras for those who paid a modest yearly fee. I do not like this either. We do this to get this stuff out there as much as we can, and to withhold anything for a fee is just not right.

We are in the process of applying for a tax exempt status. When and if this comes through, any money donated or spent at the Mudcat will be a tax deductible charitable donation. This is nice, but will likely take upwards of 9 months to process. Nonetheless, in the meantime we are a non-profit corp.

The only idea that I am totally comfortable with is to provide items that are very relevant to this site (Folk & blues) and follow the same vane. We all go to the Mudcat because we cannot typically find resources locally like this. There are products too that we cannot find locally. Most of the music I enjoy is not available in an average record store. The idea is to fund ourselves by selling products that are hard to find. The Mudcat is successful because we provide Folk and Blues resources. So lets not mess with what works. In a few days, our record collection will be up for sale. Folk Legacy Records is our first cooperator, and I do hope more will follow. We will sell these records and books online for a fee that is probably less than you’d find in you local store. And the profits go to the further development of the DigiTrad and the Mudcat, not some capitalist fat cat.

We hope to have books, records, clothing, sheet music, and anything relevant to what we do on the Mudcat. As soon as we go live, our efforts will be applied to finding more fine companies like Folk Legacy to take part, and I am sure we will have good luck.

I will post another thread discussing the details of such a deal so you all may help us find more.

I am not against donations either. I will be more comfortable when it’s a tax write-off for everyone, but I don’t care to wait 9 months. Dick, Susan and I will think about this and let you all know.

Onstage Media, Inc. donates all the technology, work and web space for the Mudcat. I own this company too. If you refer anyone with any computer and/or Internet related project to Onstage, it can only help the Mudcat. Please see our site to understand what we are capable of. (http://www.onstagemedia.com) The Mudcat is a very good example of what we can do. Also, any gigs that I know come from a referral from the Mudcat, I will donate 10% of the proceeds to the Mudcat.

All the latest (and soon to be) additions to the Mudcat are part of an effort to move forward. Hang on to your socks, because they just may be knocked off. We are shining the apple to see where we can take this cat. Personally, I won’t rest at ease until we have our own cable TV station… so I better get to work.

Subject: The Deal (for now)
From: Max D. Spiegel
Date: 24 Jun 97 - 10:51 AM

So far, our deal with other companies to allow us to sell their products is as follows. It is informal, so take only the concept with you.

The Mudcat would like a 13% commision for any sales through our site. 3% cover our processing costs, and 10% goes directly into our cause. If it means that the company raises the price 13% to compensate, we are not interested.

We are about done with the best catalog system I have ever seen on the web. It provides an easy way to browse and buy right online. We use state of the art encryption and security, so we garauntee safety. You will see it in a few days with the Folk Legacy collection in it.

We accept Visa and MasterCard. Any company may use our merchant account to process credit card transactions, or they may use there own.

If they use us to process credit cards, we will take the full payment, and send a check minus our 13%. If they use their credit cards, they send us a check for our 13%.

Orders are taken into our database. When we receive them, we send them to the appropriate vendor. This can be customized by the vendor. It could be a fax or email or snail mail, and in any format. We can do it every order, every 10 orders, every day, or every week.

The vendor handles shipping. We provide the audience (marketing) take the orders (sales).

A rough draft. Anyone with serious questions, please email me directly at [e-mail]. Any general questions or comments can be posted as a follow up here on the forum. I expect this deal to evolve over time and nothing is written in stone.

later...

Subject: RE: FUNDING THIS SITE
From:
Date: 25 Jun 97 - 06:30 PM

Subject: RE: FUNDING THIS SITE
From: RS
Date: 16 Jul 97 - 09:52 PM

In the thread called "RE: searching for lyrics with their tunes", on 16-Jul-97 - 03:45 PM, PattyG sent the following post: "Might try http://www.musicblvd.com ". From there, I clicked on their "Music Boulevard Remote Access Music Plan", at http://www.musicblvd.com/cgi-bin/tw/0_0_/mb2/live/alt/ramplan1.html^S&TEMPLATE_PATH=/mb2/live/main&FP=S-GO3 , and found the following offer (reprinted only in part):

"Offer visitors the opportunity to purchase albums by your favorite artists, and allow your site's visitors to purchase albums directly online, via Music Boulevard. You pick the albums and artists you want to feature from our database of over 150,000 titles, add your own album reviews (or link to ours), display cover art from our database, and link to our thousands of sound samples. Add links to Music Boulevard from your site by using a special URL we will give to you. Add as many or as few links as you wish.

For every album purchased by a link from your site, you will receive a 5% royalty of the item's selling price... We process the orders, handle customer payments, and pack and ship customers' orders. Our friendly customer service staff will answer all questions related to orders."

Although I didn't find a separate "folk" button, a few quick searches found Tom Paxton, Stan Rogers, Woody Guthrie, Bob Dylan, Judy Collins, Phil Ochs, (among many others) under their "NonClassical" button. They do have buttons for Irish/Celtic, Children's, Comedy, and World Music, under "eclectic collections". And maybe they would (a) increase the commission percentage (b) set up a separate Folk section - if they had enough Folk business ...

Is this of any interest? or is it too commercial?

Subject: RE: FUNDING THIS SITE
From: Dick Wisan
Date: 17 Jul 97 - 01:06 AM

The last few posts which appear to be about funding the DT by selling records, confuse me. May I hang on to this much:

If you sell records. Post a snail address to which we can send checks and orders.