Origin: Where the Old Allegheny and Monongahela...

Subject: Need help with song history
From: GUEST,Josh
Date: 24 Mar 00 - 12:16 PM

Sorry to post this again, but if no one knows the song history, can anyone tell me how else I might find out if the music is still copyrighted? Is there some database I can check? Is there a time-frame after which music is considered public domain? Thanks for any info.

Here's my original request:

I've written lyrics for our church that go with the music to this folk ballad: "Where the Old Allegheny and Monongahela Flow".

Now the church is thinking of using it as its theme song and I'm a bit nervous. Does anyone know the history to this song? Is it old enough that I'm not infringing on any copyright with the music?

Help.

Best, Josh.

Subject: RE: Need help with song history
From: Jim Krause
Date: 24 Mar 00 - 02:43 PM

Josh, have you tried looking in the DigiTrad database? I don't think I know the song which you borrowed for your composition.

Subject: Thanks, soddy, yes I have.
From: Joshua
Date: 24 Mar 00 - 03:59 PM

There doesn't seem to be too many who know the song. The only recorded version I have is on an old Pete Seeger, Folways, album from the 60's.

Josh

Subject: RE: Need help with song history
From: GUEST,Les B
Date: 24 Mar 00 - 04:31 PM

Is this the one with "Monongahela Sal" who is done wrong by a boatman ?? I used to have that album, but haven't seen it for some time. Actually there should be some info in the liner notes, or on the disc itself - like writer/author ?? As I vaguely remember, Seeger came up with that song by himself or learned it from a folk informant who was not credited. But, it's been a long time and the memory plays tricks.

Subject: RE: Monongahela Sal
From: Joshua
Date: 24 Mar 00 - 04:37 PM

No, this song is about a city amongst the hills with rolling mills and steamboats on the river towing to and fro where the old Alleghenny and the Monongahela flow.

Unfortunately, the Folkways album has no info on the music at all except for the titles. No credits of any kind. I think there used to be an inside booklet, but that's long gone.

Thanks for trying.

Subject: RE: Need help with song history
From: Peter T.
Date: 24 Mar 00 - 04:52 PM

This is not a great answer, but you can contact Smithsonian Folkways direct. The web site is: "www.si.edu/folklife/folkways" (I have mislaid the e-mail). The e-mail address will be there. They have usually answered a question of mine within a couple of days. They could tell you if the song is still under copyright. yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Need help with song history
From: Kim C
Date: 24 Mar 00 - 05:34 PM

If you write new lyrics to another melody still under copyright, isn't that considered a derivative work? I believe it's acceptable as long as you give credit to the composer, if you can find who that was. If the tune is no longer under copyright, then you're just perpetuating the Folk Process.

Somewhere on the Internet is a database of public domain songs. I'm sorry I don't know the URL offhand but you may be able to search for it. Good Luck!

Subject: RE: Monongahela Sal
From: Mike Regenstreif
Date: 24 Mar 00 - 06:09 PM

Fantasy Records has just reissued Mitch Greenhill's two LPs from the 1960s onto one CD called "Shepherd of the City Blues (Prestige)." One of the songs is "Monongahela Sal."

Mike Regenstreif

Subject: RE: Need help with song history
From: The Beanster
Date: 24 Mar 00 - 10:43 PM

Josh,

Don't know if this'll help, but here's a link to a place called public domain info. I didn't really look too closely at it but you can check it out if you want... click here

Hope it helps.

Subject: RE: Need help with song history
From: Ferrara
Date: 24 Mar 00 - 11:33 PM

Boy, that's a great site, Beanster. Thanks. I especially liked the part where they say, "Digital Tradition (Deltablues) is one of the world's best folk music archives of songs and tunes. "

Subject: RE: Need help with song history
From: katlaughing
Date: 24 Mar 00 - 11:53 PM

You might also check here, at www.pdmusic.org.

You could also go to the LINKS at the top, on the menu bar and click on it. Then scroll down to the Lester Levy site at Johns Hopkins. Do a Search for the song in the collection. If your song comes up, with sheet music, then that means they consider it to be in public domain.

You can also go here, to the U.S. Copyright Office and search their records.

Good luck,

kat

Subject: RE: Thanks guys.
From: Joshua
Date: 25 Mar 00 - 01:15 AM

Lots of great ideas to go on. Very much appreciated.

Best, Josh.

Subject: RE: help with song history-allegheny & monongahela
From: GUEST,Gene
Date: 23 Jul 08 - 01:44 AM

Play a version by the NEWLANDERS at:

http://www.pecpa.org/node/330