The Irish Navvy In America.

Subject: The Irish Navvy In America.
From: GUEST,Frank Harte.
Date: 28 Mar 00 - 05:14 PM

I would be grateful for any information on books titles or songs that deal with the life style and the working conditions of the 'Navvys'; and the 'Irish Navvy' in particular, during the building of the Canals and the Railways in America.

I am not particularly interested in canals or railways themselves, but rather in the conditions under which the navvies laboured, their songs and writings if any, and their social acceptance or otherwise.

Slan.......Frank Harte.

Subject: RE: The Irish Navvy In America.
From: GUEST,Frank Harte
Date: 28 Mar 00 - 05:26 PM

Subject: RE: The Irish Navvy In America.
From: GUEST,Frank Harte
Date: 28 Mar 00 - 05:29 PM

I should also have asked if anybody knows of a website which would specialise in this subject.

Slan.......Frank

Subject: RE: The Irish Navvy In America.
From: canoer
Date: 28 Mar 00 - 10:50 PM

Dear Frank,

I'm embarrassed at not having more to hand – certainly the larger libraries, and the university libraries, have significant amounts of material.

Are you familiar with the saying, regarding the construction of the intercontinental railway, that "there's an Irishman under every rail"? (From the West Coast, the saying was, "a Chinaman.")

Have you gotten the following song? I lack all the basic information, but I recall most of the chorus:

Navvygator, Navvygator, Rise up and be strong,
The Morning is here and there's work to be done.
With pick and with shovel and with (all?) dynamite
For to shift a few tons of this earthly delight.

It's an interesting project. Good luck.

Subject: RE: The Irish Navvy In America.
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 29 Mar 00 - 03:46 AM

Hi Frank!

Pity you didn't start this last week! I suspect Bob Conroy (Dan Milner's friend) would be able to help - he was in Inishowen at the weekend. I may hear from Dan today (he's still in Ireland). If so , I'll point this out to him.

Slan

Subject: RE: The Irish Navvy In America.
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 29 Mar 00 - 05:44 AM

G'day Frank,

I know that Dan Milner (mentioned by Martin Ryan and known on Mudcat as Liam's Brother) has a project to follow his last CD of Irish Ballads and Songs of the Sea with another dealing with the Irish immigrants in America. If you join up with Mudcat, you can approach him directly via a personal mailing to his Mudcat name.

It certainly sounds as if you are dealing in the same people, era, and interests.

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: The Irish Navvy In America.
From:
Date: 29 Mar 00 - 09:17 AM

That song that was started a few notes back goes on something like....

The canals and the bridges the embankments and cuts they sweated and dug with their hearts and their guts they never drank water but whiskey by pints and the shanty towns rang with their songs and their fights

(chorus)

There mark on this land is still seen and stil their where the (not sure) and the entrepreneur in rock blast and landslide they where buried so deep that in death if not life they'll have peace while they sleep.

------

This song (and not my semi -rembered for roaring out drunkely version) is on some Pogues album poss. Rum Sodomy and the Lash - good luck

Subject: RE: The Irish Navvy In America.
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 31 Mar 00 - 01:35 PM

I know Frank has since been talking to Dan Milner about this project. Anyone else got any references, suggestions that might help?

Regards

Subject: RE: The Irish Navvy In America.
From: GUEST,Harry A
Date: 31 Mar 00 - 10:37 PM

I had understood that the Irish workers on the North American railways were referred to as tarriers (as " Drill ye Tarriers, Drill"). By the way, does anyone have any idea what the origin of the term Navigator, referring to the Irish who worked in Enland, originated?

I love the Pogues' version of "Navigator", and sing anytime people will let me.

Harold

Subject: RE: The Irish Navvy In America.
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 02 Apr 00 - 04:08 PM

Harold

canals were often called "navigations" and those who dug them.....

Regards

Subject: RE: The Irish Navvy In America.
From: Ship'scat
Date: 02 Apr 00 - 09:05 PM

Navvy Folk's,

Sorry to come up "dry" on the tune side. But there's a bit of lore that I've just wiffed a fragment of here in New Orleans. Seems that many of the storm drainage (and navigation) canals here were dug by hand by Irish immigrants in the mid-19th century. New Orleans has more canal-miles than Venice and they are essential to its survival (drainage) and prosperity (navigation).

The Irish laborers in New Orleans lived (or squatted) in an area known to this day as the Irish Channel. They establish churches one of which is producing a Saint (in this lates round of beatifications). The grizzley part is that because of the yellow fever and malaria, plantation owners would let valuable slaves work on canals in New Orleans. If you lost a slave you were out real capital. If an Irishman died, there was little lost.

I'll try to dig up more specifics unless anyone can contribute. Again, I don't know of any specific navvy work songs, ditties or ballads that have survied. Regards, KC

Subject: RE: The Irish Navvy In America.
From: canoer
Date: 02 Apr 00 - 11:38 PM

I assume Ship's Cat meant, "owners would NOT let slaves work...." Fascinating bit of lore. Now we can add this to the old sayings: "There's an Irishman under every piling."

Subject: RE: The Irish Navvy In America.
From: Big Mick
Date: 03 Apr 00 - 07:57 AM

In fact the Irish Navvies were not confined to the south and east. In Michigan they were used to dig a canal from Southeast Michigan across the state. The project was never completed and eventually it was filled back in. My 96 year old Father in Law remembers swimming in portions of it.

Frank, I am researching when I can to see if I can come up with anything for you.

All the best,

Mick