Chord diagrams in threads?

Subject: Chord diagrams in threads?
From: Mark Clark
Date: 10 Apr 00 - 02:24 AM

After Rick's BEing flat all the "F"ing time I thought it would be neat to be able to include real chord diagrams in the threads. I started playing around in the "HTML Stuff" thread including a JPEG image I made using Visio.

Suddenly it came to me that all the chord diagrams were probably already on the Net somewhere. I did a quick search using Google and viola! there it was.

Check out Online Guitar Chord Dictinary. It may have been mentioned in a previous thread but I'd lost track of it if it had.

My question---or suggestion for Max---is to see if there is an easy way for people to reference chord diagrams using the site. For instance, Max could include a dropdown list near the message composition box so people could just select a chord name with a mouse. The script would construct a URL and insert it into the text at the point of the cursor. When the "blue clicky thing" is clicked, the reader is shown several options for the chord in question.

Is something like that worthwhile?

- Mark

Subject: RE: Chord diagrams in threads?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Apr 00 - 03:11 AM

Hi, Mark - it's a good idea, for anybody who'd like to go to the trouble. If you link to the chords links you come across in the chord dictionary, you'll get it. Here's an example:Dm. I'll add the Chord Dictionary to our Links page - although you could hasve added the link, too.
the trick for copying URLs to insert them into links is to go to the link or address bar for that URL, and click on it with your RIGHT mouse button. Select "copy" or "copy Shortcut" from the menu that comes up (whichever is appropriate), and then go to your Mudcat "reply to thread" box and paste it into your link. then close off the link, and you're set.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Chord diagrams in threads?
From: Mark Clark
Date: 10 Apr 00 - 11:25 AM

Joe, I understand about copying the URL (shortcut) and pasting it into HTML link syntax but I was looking for a way that a technophobe or neo-Luddite could use. It may be possible to simply type the desired chord into our posts and generate links to diagrams. I looked at the URL you posted and offer (no pun intended) the following analysis.

The URL is http://www.lib.virginia.edu/clembin/gtr.pl?show=D:m:Dm:X/-:1/1:3/3:3/4:2/2:1/1:1-2-6:5

This is really an invocation of a Perl script on the remote host followed by a parameter list for generating a chord diagram. If you follow the parameters you'll see that:

The colon (:) is used as a delimeter.
"D" is the root of the chord.
"m" indicates a variant to the root, in this case minor.
"Dm" is the text label for the diagram.

The next six parameters describe each string of the guitar from the bass E to the treble. Each parameter is of the form string/finger; so X/- means the string is not played and there is no finger, 1/1 means the string is stopped at the first fret using the first finger and so on.

The 1-2-6 parameter expresses the barre. From checking other patterns it looks as though the 2-6 part indicates that the barre includes strings 2 through 6 (bass to treble) though I'm still not certain what the leading 1- means in the parameter. If a chord has no barre, this parameter contains a single minus sign.

The final parameter, 5, is the lowest fret containing any part of the chord.

If I'm right, I should be able to type in a chord without needing to go the the dictionary site and look it up. Let's say we wanted a diagram of the "funny" C7 chord that M.Ted and I were discussing in another thread. To type this in directly I'd need, in addition to the standard HTML link syntax:

http://www.lib.virginia.edu/clembin/gtr.pl?show=
C (the root chord)
:7 (indication of the added dominant seventh)
:C7 (the text description)
:3/T (bass string 3rd fret with thumb - hope this works)
:X/- (A string not played - the usual case)
:2/2 (D string 2nd fret 2nd finger)
:3/3 (G string 3rd fret 3rd finger)
:1/1 (B string 1st fret 1st finger)
:3/4 (E string 3rd fret 4th finger)
:- (no barre)
:1 (chord begins at 1st fret)

Okay now let's see how brave I am. If I'm correct, you can click the funny C7 text to see and (I hope) hear the subject chord.

- Mark

Subject: RE: Chord diagrams in threads?
From: MMario
Date: 10 Apr 00 - 11:29 AM

uhmmm- Mark? You actually find that easier to use then a lookup with cut and paste?

Subject: RE: Chord diagrams in threads?
From: Mark Clark
Date: 10 Apr 00 - 11:35 AM

Hey, it worked! We now have a way to type any chord fingering we want into a link and let others see and hear the chord we are talking about. And it doesn't impeed the loading of threads.

- Mark

Subject: RE: Chord diagrams in threads?
From: Mark Clark
Date: 10 Apr 00 - 11:52 AM

MMario,

Well, yes; but only because I make my living in computing and am very accustomed to remembering strange sequences of parameters. The real advantage is that I was able to describe a chord that I don't believe can be found using the Dictionary site. I don't think their site generates any thumbed chord patterns so if one wants to have absolute control over the diagram, I think typing in the whole URL is a requirement. Their site does have a way to construct any pattern you'd like and ask what chord it is but there doesn't seem to be any way to specify the fingering using it.

Oh, and I'm thinking that maybe the first digit of the barre parameter is the finger used to make the barre. I'll play with it a little.

- Mark

Subject: RE: Chord diagrams in threads?
From: BlueJay
Date: 10 Apr 00 - 12:09 PM

I didn't hear the chord, but it sure does LOOK nice! Much easier to understand than man things I've seen. Thanks

Subject: RE: Chord diagrams in threads?
From: Mark Clark
Date: 10 Apr 00 - 12:37 PM

The chord diagram that is generated is also a link to a MIDI file that plays the chord. Assuming you have a browser plug-in that plays MIDI files, all you need to do is click on the diagram and it will be played for you.

- Mark

Subject: RE: Chord diagrams in threads?
From: BlueJay
Date: 10 Apr 00 - 12:40 PM

Well, that worked, Mark. Thanks for the explanation.

Subject: RE: Chord diagrams in threads?
From: M. Ted (inactive)
Date: 10 Apr 00 - 12:57 PM

Funny you should mention our little chord chat--I was thinking about another funny chord, 3-X-3-2-O-O, which is a G13 with the 5th dropped out, and I check for the diagram--it isn't there(this is a great chord for Hawaiian music, incidentally), and my favorite G13-9 with the Ab in the bass, isn't there either--can't play any Bossas without that!

Subject: RE: Chord diagrams in threads?
From: Mark Clark
Date: 10 Apr 00 - 01:11 PM

M.Ted,

Is this the G13 you're talking about?

I din't look it up, I just typed your fingering directly into the link. I just guessed at the fingers.

Subject: RE: Chord diagrams in threads?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Apr 00 - 04:10 PM

I dunno, Mark. Looks to me like you're trying to get us to think. I'm not sure Mmario and I are up to the challenge (or should I speak just for myself, MMario???). I think I'll just copy-paste the links, and not try to figure them out.
Actually, Mark, this is fascinating, and I'm very glad you brought it up. Now, I wonder if we can get Rick Fielding to figure out how to use it.
Fat chance... <grin>
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Chord diagrams in threads?
From: Mark Clark
Date: 10 Apr 00 - 04:24 PM

Thanks, Joe. Actually, I'll probably cut and paste a lot as well but the "funny C7" I used in the example can't be looked up on the dictionary site so there is nothing to cut and paste. But if we know how to build the URL, we can still have the chord diagram to share with friends.

- Mark

Subject: RE: Chord diagrams in threads?
From: M. Ted (inactive)
Date: 10 Apr 00 - 06:55 PM

That's it!! Only thing is, I like to use R-X-P-I-O-O and bounce up and down on the B-String with my index finger for a really lush sort of sound, 'specially on a 12-string!

I suppose you want me to go back and stick in a blue clicky--I will, but not today--

Subject: RE: Chord diagrams in threads?
From: Hyperabid
Date: 11 Apr 00 - 11:37 AM

Okay I'm gonna try this...

My favorite odd C thingy

Hyp

Subject: RE: Chord diagrams in threads?
From: Hyperabid
Date: 11 Apr 00 - 11:40 AM

Sherbert what about this way

My favorite odd C thingy

Hyp

Subject: RE: Chord diagrams in threads?
From: Hyperabid
Date: 11 Apr 00 - 11:42 AM

IT lives!

Now there's a four-hundred year old twinky in it for anyone who can classify it.

Hyp

Subject: RE: Chord diagrams in threads?
From: MMario
Date: 11 Apr 00 - 11:43 AM

Joe - I'm not up to the challenge either.....*grin* I could "follow" what he was doing, but cut and paste seems like a lot less work to me...

Subject: At what point does it get simpler...
From: Philj200
Date: 11 Apr 00 - 11:52 AM

to just learn the chords the old-fashioned way. Then you don't have to carry a laptop and phone when you want to jam with your friends.

Subject: RE: Chord diagrams in threads?
From: Mark Clark
Date: 11 Apr 00 - 12:36 PM

Hyperabid, I read your chord as a Cmaj9. You've raised the dominant seventh to a major seventh and added the ninth on the first string.

- Mark

Subject: RE: Chord diagrams in threads?
From: Mark Clark
Date: 11 Apr 00 - 12:38 PM

Excuse me, the ninth on the second string. Another "senior moment" I guess.

- Mark

Subject: RE: Chord diagrams in threads?
From: Hyperabid
Date: 11 Apr 00 - 12:48 PM

Thanks Mark

One virtual twinky award!

Hyp

Subject: RE: Chord diagrams in threads?
From: Mark Clark
Date: 11 Apr 00 - 12:51 PM

MMario, et al.,

Of *course* it's easier to cut and paste for most people. The reason it's worthwhile to learn to type the entire URL from scratch is that it's the *only* way, as far as I can tell, of producing a chord diagram that is not "standard academic music theory." The whole point is that, as folk musicians, we often use chords and patterns that are not anticipated or provided for in academic circles. Learning the specification syntax for the Guitar Chord Dictionary site allows us to share the stranger things we come up with without needing to write paragraphs of arcane prose to describe it to the community at large.

Would it be helpful to have a clickable Java applet on the forum page that would provide a point and click interface for generating URLs for odd chords? If Max would be willing to include it, I might be willing to put something together. Of course if Max, or anyone else, would like to write the applet, be my guest.

Be warned that I am very busy and can't commit to a completion date.

- Mark

Subject: RE: Chord diagrams in threads?
From: Mark Clark
Date: 11 Apr 00 - 04:47 PM

Mmmmmm, thanks Hyp. Now if I could only find a Jolt Cola around these parts.

- Mark

Subject: RE: Chord diagrams in threads?
From: MMario
Date: 11 Apr 00 - 04:57 PM

Mark - I just got a bit of a chuckle, because in the original post, you were looking for an "easy" way to post chords, and all of a sudden your talking about Perl scripts with six parameters....

"cut and paste" is higher tech then some of our 'catters are willing to use...(NOTE: THIS WAS NOT A DEROGATORY STATEMENT. I fully support anyones right to NOT learn and NOT use a technique)

Subject: RE: Chord diagrams in threads?
From: Mark Clark
Date: 11 Apr 00 - 05:14 PM

MMario,

Thanks, I'm always happy to provide a little humor whenever I can. Actually, I count eleven parameters; and I too support anyone's right to do what pleases them. I just figured that there would be some people who might like to know how to describe an unusual chord to others.

As for me, I can probably hand type the entire link sequence---eleven parameters and all---more quickly than I can look up the chord, copy the URL, and paste it into a hand-typed link sequence. I don't expect others to do that, I just want them to have access to the knowledge in case they should find a need.

For me, it's an easy way to post chords, but that's just me. Do as you will.

- Mark

Subject: RE: Chord diagrams in threads?
From: Hyperabid
Date: 12 Apr 00 - 05:17 AM

Mark

Sounds like you are another soul waiting on the invention of cyber caffeine.

My newly naked Cmaj9 made it into another song last night all the stronger for it's new identity.

Cheers.

Hyp (David)

Subject: RE: Chord diagrams in threads?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 12 Apr 00 - 10:30 AM

Damn it Joe, I've got enough to worry about, just keeping the cats and Heather fed, teaching people "thumb chords", playing just enough concerts to pay the mortgage, answering Banjo Bonnie's questions, telling folks to "laugh" at flamers, and now....agonizing once again at the Blue Jays! I've learned how to (sometimes) do blue clickys...whaddya want, blood?

Rick

Subject: RE: Chord diagrams in threads?
From: M. Ted (inactive)
Date: 12 Apr 00 - 11:19 AM

Pray to God that Fred Blassie doesn't read this thread!!!!