Help: John Foreman

Subject: John Foreman
From: scouse
Date: 15 Apr 00 - 06:59 AM

First thanks once again for the help with the Rat Catchers Daughter, I heard John Forman singing it years ago and I also believe he published two or three books of Broadsode Ballads. Is the Man still around? Are the Books still gettable!!!! Thanks scouse

Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman
From: scouse
Date: 15 Apr 00 - 07:00 AM

Opp's sorry I meant Broadside!!!!

Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman
From: John Moulden
Date: 15 Apr 00 - 04:28 PM

I've been in touch with John recently -

The Broadsheet King The Hermitage 89 Harmood Street London NW1 8DT

He is still active but ageing - he has at least 2000 assorted pieces of ephemera and some unbound copies of Ashton's "Real Sailor songs" - £25.00 - inquire if you are interested. There are also separate sheets from his version of Hindley's "Curiosities of Street Literature." and copies (whether bound or not, I do not know, at £40.00.)

For £2.00 he will send you an envelope containing various pieces of printed ephemera of his own manufacture - some songs, some squibs and jokes. This he calls the "Gallimaufrey"

Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Apr 00 - 04:35 PM

I last saw John at the (English) National Folk Festival in 1998 (I think), when he was on great form, swapping tales with Johnny Handle. Hadn't noticeably changed much in 30 years.

Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman
From: Willie-O
Date: 16 Apr 00 - 11:14 AM

Hmm, I thought this was about my old friend John Foreman the singing/fiddling logger from Bancroft Ontario.

Looks like if that's your name, you have to be an interesting character.

Willie-O

Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 17 Apr 00 - 07:44 AM

Willie-o, this is John Foreman, the Broadsheet King, to give him his full title. Yes, p-r-e-t-t-y interesting!

Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman
From: pavane
Date: 18 Jun 01 - 06:02 AM

While looking through my old recordings recently (see Nic Jones thread) I came across a recording of John performing at Pontardawe in about 1972

Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman
From: GUEST,ruth andrews
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 06:33 PM

Spoke to John a month or so back. He is alive and well and living in Camden Town.

Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 06:42 PM

Someone please drag him to a computer keyboard and enveigle him into visiting us here!!

Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman
From: Surreysinger
Date: 15 Jun 09 - 05:27 PM

Saw John from a distance at the London Folklore Conference in May, although I regret I don't know him, so can't follow up on that request!

Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Jun 09 - 03:00 AM

'Ear Tis
Not sure that it's John Foreman's; I found it as a separate printed sheet in a second hand copy of Charles Chilton's 'Victorian Folk Songs'.
Jim Carroll

THE RATCATCHER'S DAUGHTER
NOT long ago, in Vestministier,
There liv'ed a Ratcatcher's daughter,
She did'nt quite live in Vestministier,
But t' other side of the vater.
Her father caught rats, and she sold sprats,
All round and about that qua-rter,
And the gentlefolks all did lift there hats
To the ratcatcher's pretty little daughter.
Doodle dee, doodle dum, ri, da, doo, da, di do.

She wore no hat upon her head,
No cap nor dandy bonnet:
And her hair hung gracefully down her back,
Like a bunch of carrots upon it.
Now vhen she cried 'Sprats' in Vestministier,
She 'ad such a loud sweet woice, sir,
You could hear her all down Parliament Street,
As far as Charming-Cross, sir.
Doodle dee, &c.

Now rich and poor from far and near,
In matrimony sought her;
But to friends and foes she turn'd up her nose,
Did the ratcatcher's pretty little daughter.
For there was a man sold lilly-vhite sand,
In Cupid's net had caught her;
And right over head and ears in love
Pell the ratcatcher's beau-tiful daughter.
Doodle dee, Ac.

Now lilly vhite sand so ran in her head,
As she vent down to Strand, oh!
Instead of crying "do you vant any sprats ?"
She cried "D' ye vant any lilly-vhite sand, oh ?"
The people vere all amaz'd and thought she was craz'd
As she vent down the Strand oh!
To hear the gal vith sprats on her head,
Crying "D' ye vant any lilly-vhite sand, oh?"
Doodle dee, &c.

Now ratcatcher's daughter so ran in his head,
He could'nt tell vhat he was arter,
For instead of crying "D' ye vant any sand ?"
He cried "D' ye vant any ratcatcher's daughter?"
His donkey cock'd his ears and laughed,
And could'nt think what his master was arter,
When he heard a man that sold lilly-vhite sand,
Cry "D' ye vant any ratcatcher's daughter ?"
Doodle dee, &c.

Now they had agreed to marri-ed be
Upon last Easter Monday ;
But the ratcatcher's daughter had a dream
That she vould'nt be alive on the Sunday.
She vent vunce more for to buy some sprats,
And she tumbled into the vater;
Then over the head all kivered up with mud,
Was the ratcatcher's pretty little daughter.

[SPOKEN.]—And, considering the state of the Thames at this here present moment, vhat must she have swallowed!
ugh! ugh!        
Doodle dee, &c.

Vhen lilly-vhite sand did hear the news,
His eyes ran down vith vater;
Says he" In' love I've constant prov'd,
Blow me if I'll live long arter."
So he cut his throat vith a pane of glass,
And stabb'd his donkey arter :
So here vas an end of lilly-vhite sand,
Donkey, and the ratcatcher's daughter.
Doodle dee, &c.

The neighbours all, both great and small,
Did flock unto the berre-in,
And vept that a gal who'd cried out 'sprats'
Should be dead as any herre-in.
The Corioner's Inquest on her sat,
At the sign of 'Jack in the Vater,'
To find what made life's sand run out
Of the pretty little ratcatcher's daughter.
Doodle dee, Ac.

The werdick was that too much vet
This poor young woman died on;
For she made a, hole in the Riviere Thames,
Vot the penny steamers ride on ?
'Twas a haccident, they all agreed,
And nuffin like self-slaughter;
So not guiltee, of fell-in-the-sea,
They brought in the ratcatcher's daughter.

[SPOKEN.]—Vell, ladies an' gen'lemen—arter the two bodies was resusticated, they burri-ed them both in one seminary—and the epigram vich they writ on the tomb¬stone was:—
Doodle dee, Ac.

Song 252.

Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman
From: Nigel Paterson
Date: 16 Jun 09 - 04:44 AM

Very glad to hear that John is alive & well. As a performer, he was a frequent visitor to the original Chelmsford Folk Club, much loved & appreciated by the audience. As an expert on Broadside Ballads, his knowledge & advice was often sought by The Halliard when they were forming their repertoire back in the '60s.
                                                                        Nigel Paterson, mandolin, The Halliard.

Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman
From: scouse
Date: 16 Jun 09 - 04:55 AM

Dear Me, I started this thread back in 2000. Now you tell me he's still alive. How old is John now?? he must be well into his eighties, perhaps more.
As Aye,
Phil

Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 16 Jun 09 - 04:57 AM

I ran into John Foreman a while ago at a funeral, thankfully not his. Indeed, it was quite hard to keep up with him as he strode out from Kew station to Mortlake. He looks not one jot different from I first met him in the 60s (at his local, the Enterprise, Chalk Farm).

He'll still perform from time to time, but when he wants to. If you see him lurking at the back of your venue, don't ask him. Then he might . . .

Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman
From: GUEST,Duke of Denton
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 05:48 PM

Saw John Foreman in Trafalgar Square last week but before I could get to him he jumped onto a 24 bus. I noticed he went upstairs.

Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 11:29 PM

Did you know that Chris Foreman, guitarist of famous Ska group Madness, was John's son?

〠☺〠☺〠

Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman
From: Will Fly
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 04:36 AM

Did you know that Rita Foreman, John's ex-wife, was the washboard player in my London band "The Egbert Sousé All Stars" in the late '60s and early'70s?

:-)

Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman
From: Vic Smith
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 05:46 AM

Click on FIRST PHOTO to see my photo of John giving his excellent presentation on "London Customs" as part of the Keith Summers Festival at the King & Queen in Central London on May 8th 2011.

Click on SECOND PHOTO to see another photo taken at the same time.

Click on THIRD PHOTO to see John in conversation with Rod & Danny Stradling on that day.

Oh! ....and Mr Ainscough, I hope that you will be able to reassemble The Egbert Sousé All Stars for at least part of your performance at the Royal Oak in Lewes next week.

Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman
From: banjoman
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 06:03 AM

I remember John at the Whitchurch Festival back in the 1980's. He sold me a book about Peter Honri for £1.50 which I still have (somewhere). Glad to hear that he is still about

Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman
From: Charley Noble
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 07:48 AM

John was very helpful to me years ago when I was researching "Pity the Downtrodden Landlord." He was also very entertaining when I saw him featured at Sharp's. I'm sure he's still entertaining.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman
From: GUEST,tom
Date: 11 May 14 - 12:23 PM

Click below for an interview with him from 2012

http://youtu.be/6qMmpnxj_CQ?t=34m4s

Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman
From: GUEST,tom
Date: 11 May 14 - 12:28 PM

Here is the link now made clickable

Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 12 May 14 - 09:51 AM

Thanks for posting the song back in 2009, Jim. It's amusing.

Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jul 16 - 05:58 AM

A programme about John Foreman is starting soon on BBC Radio 4!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07kpy3v

Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 19 Jul 16 - 06:39 AM

On BBC Radio 4 now - John's songs - a day with a music hall master!

Kitty

Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman
From: Leadfingers
Date: 19 Jul 16 - 06:45 AM

just to help out -
Guest's Link

Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman
From: GUEST,CJB
Date: 22 Jul 16 - 07:18 AM

John Foreman appears on London Folk Song Cellar in the 1960s on episodes 2 / 10 / 24

LFSC 02        John Foreman        Villikens And His Dinah
LFSC 02        John Foreman        Pretty Polly Perkins Of Paddington Green

LFSC 10        John Foreman        Picking All The Big Ones Out
LFSC 10        John Foreman        The Winkle Song

LFSC 24        John Foreman        A Proper Cuppa Coffee

We have nos. 10 an 24 but 2 is missing.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/4yjdph08w0bg0b7/LFSC_10_-_TD_115636.37_-_RMcL_c4_%28320%29.mp3

http://www.mediafire.com/download/yf4sibmox7jldkj/LFSC_24_-_TD_116871.72_-_MP_%28320%29.mp3

Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jul 16 - 07:30 AM

With clickies ...

LFSC 10

LFSC 24

Thanks to Mitch & Robyn Park for finding these.

Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jul 16 - 07:31 PM

I really appreciated the recent BBC radio documentary about John Foreman, since I'd never heard of him before (I suppose one reason for that is that I'm not English and don't live in England) - glad that such voices as his are (occasionally) given mainstream airtime.

Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman
From: GUEST,Young Buchan
Date: 23 Jan 17 - 03:08 PM

For those who missed it last July, the programme was repeated today on Radio 4 and so should be available on IPlayer for the next few weeks.

Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman
From: Will Fly
Date: 23 Jan 17 - 04:37 PM

For those who may be interested, I was chatting to John late last year in London. It was at the funeral of Rita (his ex-wife) and, although it was obviously a sad occasion, he was as engaging as ever when we were talking in the pub after the service at the crematorium.

Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman
From: Nigel Paterson
Date: 24 Jan 17 - 01:17 AM

Very pleased to hear that, Will. John was something of a mentor to 'The Halliard' back in the 60s   as we researched & developed our Broadside Ballad repertoire. I hope, one year on, he's still with us.
            Nigel Paterson.

Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 24 Jan 17 - 03:27 AM

I've just found out that the programme broadcast on 19 July last year was repeated on Radio 4 yesterday afternoon - here's the link!

Kitty

Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman
From: Nigel Paterson
Date: 26 Jan 17 - 11:45 AM

Thank you for the link, Kitty. I've only managed to catch a few minutes of the programme so far, but John sounds & looks much like he did in the 60s...complete with hat! I'm amazed at how little he's changed. A lovely, gentle-man in all respects. I hope he finds a good home for all that music he's accumulated, it must be an absolute treasure trove.
                                                                                                       Nigel Paterson.

Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 26 Jan 17 - 06:24 PM

Try again.
I managed to get a stand alone recording of this.
Bit fiddly but fairly easy.
Go to the link.
Connect your input and output jack sockets together.
Start Audacity (freebie programme)
Set recording and output levels to 5/10.
Start recording.
Start listening to link.
Go and have a read or wash the pots or whatever for half an hour.
Stop the recording when the link has finished.
Label the track.
Save via multiple labels.
This will give you a WAV file that you can convert to MP3 or your preferred file type.
Enjoy.

Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman
From: Nigel Paterson
Date: 27 Jan 17 - 12:14 PM

In the 60s, John self-published (at considerable expense) a superb collection of Broadside Ballads. He also produced a limited number of what he referred to as 'filleted books' which contained some of his particular favourites. John signed them & gave them away to a lucky few, of which I was one. With the passing years & several house moves, my 'filleted book' is no longer to be found. The book may be lost, but the memories linger on.
                                                                                                                   Nigel Paterson.

Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 27 Jan 17 - 01:15 PM

The book John republished was Ashton's 'Real Sailor Songs' with an intro by Bert Lloyd. I still have my copy and it is well used. I have a few of his original broadsides as well which I bought from him when he was doing folk club gigs in the 60s.

Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman
From: GUEST,Doh
Date: 28 Jan 17 - 07:22 AM

That proves it! (The sign in)
Thanks guest guest for tips on getting downloads from BBC radio.
Gave it a go and it works fine.

Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman
From: Nigel Paterson
Date: 28 Jan 17 - 12:18 PM

Steve Gardham, are we both writing about the same book...is my: "self-published" the same as your: "republished", or did John publish an additional Broadside collection? Either way, I envy you your copy of 'Real Sailor Songs'. It's pleasing to read that you not only still have it, but it has been well used. JF would be thrilled to know that, I'm sure. Dave, Nic & I have much to be grateful for. John's guidance & advice was invaluable.
                                                                                        Nigel Paterson (Mandolin, The Halliard)

Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 28 Jan 17 - 02:37 PM

Sorry for misleading you, Nigel, John also republished Charles Hindley's 2 volume 'Curiosities of Street literature' in 1966, nearly all 19th century and mostly 'last goodnights' and similar printed by Disley and Hodges. I have both volumes and Real Sailor Songs. I'm not aware that he published any other collections but if he did I'd like to know. They won't show up in my indexes as having been published by John as my indexes only show authors. Billy Weekes would probably know and I could email him if he doesn't pop up here.

Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman
From: Billy Weeks
Date: 30 Jan 17 - 10:22 AM

'Billy Weeks would probably know...' I'd like to pretend that is so Steve, but my filing system (very simple: everything is on the floor somewhere) relied heavily on my memory and that is getting extremely dodgy now. But this gives me the opportunity to add my own few words of appreciation of John Foreman. When I joined the EFDS in the 1950s, expressing a taste for music hall songs in the precincts of CSH was like letting a loud fart in church. My first hearing of John (I think it was in a pub singing room in Clerkenwell) persuaded me that the old songs of my own London background were not, after all, dismissable commercial junk.

I was old enough to have heard the likes of Harry Champion,Nat Travers and Nellie Wallace on stage in the dying days of variety, but I had thought it was all over until I heard John's amazing repertoire. In the last two or three years, I have also had the joy of hearing him sing at a Broadside Day at CSH. The audience response was terrific. Times have truly changed at the old cathedral. The VWML itself now takes popular song, in print and on record, as an essential contextual strand in the study of folk song.

I have owned two copies of John's splendid re-creation of 'Curiosities of Street Literature'. One of them is now in the library of a friend in Rhode Island. I hope he will eventually be able to paste in a copy of 'The Last Dying Confessions of Donald Trump'.

Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman
From: Nigel Paterson
Date: 30 Jan 17 - 10:55 AM

I'm as certain as I can be that my long-lost 'filleted book' was filleted from 'Curiosities of Street Literature'. Thank you, Steve & Billy for jogging my equally dodgy memory!
                                                                Nigel.

Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 30 Jan 17 - 01:23 PM

Cheers, John (Billy). A lovely posting! I think I'd swap my whole collection for a copy of that last song!

Subject: RE: Help: John Foreman
From: Billy Weeks
Date: 31 Jan 17 - 06:05 AM

One last self-indulgent memory before I doze off again:
When I was in my teens I was at a wedding when my wicked uncle (the one who liked me to believe he was a burglar) sang 'Wotcher Me Old Brown Son'. It was glorious. Incredibly exciting. In a very small way a 'Seeds of Love' moment (well just a bit)..
But returning to John, I think it is sad that he is unlikely to see all the good things that are said about him in this and other threads - unless they are printed out and slid under his door.