Playing the Autoharp

Subject: Playing the Autoharp
From: Bradypus
Date: 21 Apr 00 - 06:47 PM

Having read several people talking about autoharps here, I looked out the autoharp my aunt gave me, tuned it up, and played a few tunes. I play the way she showed me, which is to strum up to the note of the tune, then stop. As I know about chords, I can work out which bar to use (it's a 6 bar harp in G). As my aunt didn't know about chords, she would always play a melody G using the G bar, whether it belonged there, or in C, or in E minor...

Anyway, I've never heard anyone else play, so I wondering if this approach is right, or if it's more usual just to strum chords as an accompaniment, ignoring the melody, or if people pick the melody on single strings and ignore the chords or ...

Any advice on how to play gratefully received.

Bradypus

Subject: RE: Playing the Autoharp
From: -=Jim=-
Date: 21 Apr 00 - 08:01 PM

I've played acoustic guitar for many years, and recently began picking at the autoharp too. It's a neat machine, vastly underrated.

The "advanced" way is to hold it vertically against the chest, pressing the keys with the left fingers and picking with the right. One tries (I say "tries") to pick individual strings to play tunes... use quick changes to get all teh notes. Some tunes are of course more amenable to the 'harp than others. Also alternate tunings and chord-bar cuttings are sometimes done. I think the autoharp combined with a dulcimer is just beautiful.

There are websites -- make a quick search. They're a trip!

=-Jim=-

Subject: RE: Playing the Autoharp
From: DonMeixner
Date: 21 Apr 00 - 08:03 PM

Auto harps in general and your 6 bar (Minature?) in specific are usually played the same ways. I use the "Burp the Baby" cradle aganst your chest method of holding it. The next question is; Are you chording or do you plan to play melody or both?

Reality check time! Is this a real old harp? Does it say made in Dolgeville or Patterson New Jersey in its label? If so, keep it like it is and enjoy a bone fide playable antique and get a newer harp. The newer harp wll have more chords and you can easily rearrange the bars for an easier playing layout than Charlie Zimmermann invented.

f you are gonna play melody, learn to play scales. I play the C major scale by getting it thios way. Pull a C from the Cmaj chord

a D from the G major chord.

An E from the C major chord

and F from the F major chord

a G from the C or G major chord

an A from the F major chord

a B from the G major chord

C back at C major.

Scales are tedious whenever and wherever you play them but but necessary.

My primary playing harp is a Diatonic B model of unsure vintage with chords changed to this pattern ti suite my melodic style..

Front rank from the top down Bb, F, C, G, D . G7 Back rank is from the top Dm, Am, Em, Bm, F#m, D7.

Others will offer good advice. Good luck with the harp. Its saved my fingers for me as a Physical Therapy aid.

Don

Subject: RE: Playing the Autoharp
From: Bev and Jerry
Date: 21 Apr 00 - 08:54 PM

Bradypus:

Unless this harp is an "Easy Chord" model having only 18 strings, it's almost certainly an antique. Tell us more about it. What does the logo under the strings look like? What does the label (if any) inside the hole say? How many strings does it have?

Bev and Jerry

Subject: RE: Playing the Autoharp
From: Bill D
Date: 21 Apr 00 - 09:00 PM

there are several ways to play, and lots of variations on those...you DO need a way to tune it accurately, and if you are going to do more than strum, you will need picks that fit thumb and at least one other finger. (scholars bicker..*smile*)....I usually use one thumb pick.... and one 'special' pick on my middle finger which allows me to strum both ways without it catching, but that is just me...many players use 3 or 4 picks and do more elaborate picking. You don't have to decide right away, but it will affect what kinds of things you can do in the long run...

here is me, in a photo from the Mudcat Album, playing a 21 bar Oscar Schmidt 'harp.

Let us know if you have access to a decent music store, record store..(sorry..CD's *sigh*)...there are albums and gadgets which will make it all easier.

Subject: RE: Playing the Autoharp
From: catspaw49
Date: 21 Apr 00 - 10:05 PM

I got here a bit late for the antique bidding I see..**BG**(:<))

You're getting lots of good suggestions and I'll offer 2 simple ones. There is a lot of good instruction material available and I'd check into some of that. There are several good books (including a classic by Becky Blackley) and some excellent videos by two great players, the somewhat unbelievable Bryan Bowers and John Sebastian, probably available elsewhere, but definitely at Elderly Instruments (click here).

The second suggestion is just a matter of taste. I too play with the 'harp (its really an auto-chorded zither, but the name "Autozither" ain't got much appeal and only and Old Poop like Bill would buy one) as Bill and Don, but perhaps a bit higher than Bill. I use a strap and I seriously recommend it as it eases some of the pressure. Strap buttons are not difficult to install, but if it turns out you do have a Vintage Autoharp, don't do it!!! Do as Don suggests and pick up a newer one. But the strap does free up things considerably.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Playing the Autoharp
From: Dulci46
Date: 22 Apr 00 - 12:01 AM

Bill D

In you pictures, what is the third picture of? It looks like a pick with three points.

Subject: RE: Playing the Autoharp
From: -=Jim=-
Date: 22 Apr 00 - 04:26 PM

Bill D, what kind of bi-directional pick do you use? I've heard of soldering a coupla metal picks back to back, and I've thought about fabricating some myself out of plastic. (I go both directions on guitar, and on teh harp sometimes I forget and try it... picks everywhere!)

-=Jim=-

Subject: RE: Playing the Autoharp
From: Bradypus
Date: 22 Apr 00 - 07:01 PM

Description of the autoharp@

Says "Lohengrin" to the left of the bars, under the strings, gold script on black.

There is a stave printed under the strings to the right of the bars - strings are numbered 1 to 20, from the D below middle C to 2 Bs above. (Bs are given as h/b, except for the top one, which is h). In addition, 6 bass strings (C,D,G,B,C). Some strings were replaced before it was given to me, so the bass notes aren't all as low as indicated on the stave. The six bars are extensively labelled - This is for interest, I know what ther are:

1,c-dur,do maj, A
2,d-sept, re-sept, B
3,g-dur, sol maj, C
I, e-moll, mi min, D
II, a-moll, la min, E
III, b-moll, si-min, F

Peering through the sound hole under the bars, I can see
Auto-Harps
Accord-Zither
Made in Germany

The harp is probably about 24 inches x 12 inches. I play it sitting on my knee, which is how my aunt showed me (except when she wanted it loud, when she would sit it on a table). I have a thumb-prick.

I'd appreciate suggestions on what's worth listening to. Thanks for all your help.

Bradypus

Subject: RE: Playing the Autoharp
From: catspaw49
Date: 22 Apr 00 - 08:17 PM

Interesting, but not exceptionally valuable, probably in the 100-140 US price range. Enjoy it to your heart's content. Check at the Elderly link above and they have several recordings as well. Bowers is great as is Sebastian and don't forget the Carter family!!!

Spaw

Subject: RE: Playing the Autoharp
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Apr 00 - 11:51 PM

Jim...I made a pick after what I heard of Kilby Snow using...a piece of sheet brass, cut & bent so it folds over my fingertip and around my finger like a pick.....then I found that Sitar plectrums..(called a Mizrab) are wire versions of the same thing...the weight is quite different, but I have uses for each..tell you what...after Easter, I'll post pics of them....

oh...that other picture? That's a square bowl made from Macassar Ebony....I cannot remember for the life of me how bbc got it...and never asked WHY she put it up there! It was turned on a lathe, and is what I do to make part of a living...

Subject: RE: Playing the Autoharp
From: BlueJay
Date: 23 Apr 00 - 02:42 AM

Bradypus- DonMeixner (above), gives a good, concise primer on playing melody lines using major chords. Try using those three chords, and just play a major scale. It works in the other keys as well. Depending on your tuning, you may need to use a 7th for the "ti" of the scale. Once you get used to playing the scale, it's not too hard to pick out other melodies. Maybe I'm lazy, but I think the great thing about the autoharp is that you don't have to be too precise: all the strings neighboring the note you want to hit are deadened. I use steel fingerpicks on my four fingers, and a plastic thumbpick, so it's easy to hit high and low notes at the same time, and HEAR them. The tricky part is mixing up the melody with full sounding chords. I've actually come up with a fairly decent sounding autoharp version of Floyd Cramer's piano song, "Last Date". But my harp is tuned chromatically, and has fifteen chord bars, which leaves room for the necessary minor chords. Real autoharp fanatics usually have five or six diatonically tuned harps for different keys. DEFINITELY- get ahold of any BrianBowers recordings you can. I don't know if it's on any records, but his "Battle Hymn of the Republic" is MOST instructive. He used to use it to demonstrate the autoharps capabilities. When I heard it, he played the melody in the low, middle, and high registers, explaining it all the way, then finished by belting it out. He can also teach you a lot about singing, and performing in general. A more engaging performer, you're not likely to find! Sorry this is getting so long, but another good harp player is Roz Brown. He gave me a sitar pick, useful for strumming both ways, and he's from Colorado, which I'm always happy to promote. He plays a lot of folk, railroad and sea songs, and could teach you a lot about how the harp should sound in these types of songs. He has a website, click here. Have Fun! BlueJay

Subject: RE: Playing the Autoharp
From: BlueJay
Date: 23 Apr 00 - 02:53 AM

How stupid of me. It is Bryan, not Brian Bowers. Bryan forgive me, wherever you are! BuleJya

Subject: RE: Playing the Autoharp
From: Night Owl
Date: 23 Apr 00 - 05:23 PM

I also think Bryan Bowers video is excellent for demonstrating the autoharp's versatility....ie....can be simply strummed or produce more intricate notes and harmonies. JAB had also suggested, a while ago, that autoharp players here get together on Hearme to swap tunes and styles of playing....JAB?????

Subject: RE: Playing the Autoharp
From: GutBucketeer
Date: 23 Apr 00 - 06:01 PM

Hi Nightowl:

Yes... I really do want to pick a Sunday where all of the autoharpers can show their stuff in Hearme. I made the suggestion and then checked my calendar. I'm out of town, or otherwise busy until the second or third week in May!

That is why I haven't been too visible lately on Mudcat. Work, Scouts, Soccer, Baseball. It's the season.

So I didn't suggest a time yet. Anyone have a good time?

JAB

Subject: RE: Playing the Autoharp
From: Night Owl
Date: 23 Apr 00 - 06:13 PM

JAB.....is Sun. the only day you have available...??? Our Mudcats "song circle" starts @ 7:30 and goes to......???? (3am I think is the current record). Wondering if another day would work for you at all.

Subject: RE: Playing the Autoharp
From: catspaw49
Date: 23 Apr 00 - 06:14 PM

Well JAB, thanks to YOU, I now have to oversee the start-up of this Bum Gardening business......I've turned it over to Cletus, but initially I'll have to invest considerable time.

But the Autoharp idea is a good one. Need a day.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Playing the Autoharp
From: Night Owl
Date: 24 Apr 00 - 12:10 PM

refresh

Subject: RE: Playing the Autoharp
From: harpgirl
Date: 13 Jun 00 - 12:12 AM

rejoinder

Subject: RE: Playing the Autoharp
From: SINSULL
Date: 13 Jun 00 - 09:16 AM

Also read, printed, and saved.

Subject: RE: Playing the Autoharp
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Jul 01 - 06:36 PM

Just got my old Oscar Schmidt in the mail, today, and it seems the most awkward thing I've ever tried to play! Don't know if I am going to even keep it! If I hold it over my shoulder like the baby burping, I have a hard time seeing the chords, if I lay down on teh table, it hurts my shoulders to cross over, if I turn it around, everything is upside down. Maybe big breasts are part of the problem, though babies never complained about that!?

I think it is also that I've never played a chorded instrument, so it seems weird to sing along a try to figure out the chords and changes. I think I am zither-challenged!

Anyone want to buy it for what I have into it?

kat

Subject: RE: Playing the Autoharp
From: catspaw49
Date: 05 Jul 01 - 07:01 PM

Hi kat......Before you go and do a damn fool thing like that, keep trying in the baby burp position. You need to learn where the bar buttons are so you don't have to look. If you think of most songs as three chord, you'll realize when you look at it that there is a pattern to the buttons! Chord I is in between Chords IV and V. Put your middle finger on the I and your index on the IV with your ring finger on the V. After that you can see where the minors and 7th's fall and it will make some sense to you. Look at it and it will get you started. It's an ideal instrument to go along with what you've been doing on dulcimer. Pick out an easy three chorder and have at it.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Playing the Autoharp
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Jul 01 - 07:25 PM

..and when you get it right (the chords)..you can 'hear' the melody appearing ...then you just reach a bit higher or lower when you strum/pluck, and you are picking the melody more precisely...(hope you have an electronic tuner)

You'll soon find a comfy place to cradle the baby..*grin*...it's the left wrist that will tire early on...

Subject: RE: Playing the Autoharp
From: kendall
Date: 05 Jul 01 - 07:32 PM

Surely you have watched good harp players, such as Harpgirl, who use the baby position without looking at the bars? If they can do it, you can do it. There is a legend that the Amazons would cut off one breast so it wouldn't interfer with the bow string. That is another option, but, I think you would be better off learning to play by feel! No comments Spaw.

Subject: RE: Playing the Autoharp
From: catspaw49
Date: 05 Jul 01 - 08:15 PM

Well Kendall, as it happens, the valve replacement involved putting a 2" incision under my right boob and the guys are NOT cosmetic surgeons so when they sewed it up, the nipple points down and the boob is pushed up ala Victor Mature. At this point, I haven't gotten out the autoharp (or anything for that matter) since the area is a bit tender, but I'm wondering if the fit will be improved?

Spaw

Subject: RE: Playing the Autoharp
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Jul 01 - 09:12 PM

Rog says how do I play both of them at the same time, that is dulcimer and zither?

LOL, you guys are great! I just don't see me doing anything with this. I am a strum the melody-type and I have an excellent ear, but I'll be go to hell if I could even do a simple tune and figure out what key to sing it in. It has got me completely flummoxed and what I have to work hard at, these days, I ain't too interested in, if ya get my drift.**BG**

Kendall, I haven't actually laid eyes on Harpgirl playing. I've seen fuzzy shots of people on Mudcat Radio, but not close up and while it sounded good, I think the whole baby-burp thing is past my time.

If I wanted to burp a baby and do that to my shoulders and pinch my boobs, etc. I guess I'd be doing something other than playing music.**BG**

Besides for a few dollars more, well, maybe $50 or so, I could have a Celtic lap harp, maybe not a primo one, but I know I would LOVE those sounds and would enjoy improving tunes on it like the dulci.

Oh, drat! I can send it back and the guy will refund my money, but I'd much rather send it to a Mudcatter.

Thanks ya'll....kat

Subject: RE: Playing the Autoharp
From: catspaw49
Date: 05 Jul 01 - 09:15 PM

Okay.....I think its a mistake.....but give us the details....Like, what is it?

Spaw

Subject: RE: Playing the Autoharp
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Jul 01 - 09:57 PM

15 bar Schmidt, it sounds like....(maybe a lesson at the Getaway?)

Subject: RE: Playing the Autoharp
From: Night Owl
Date: 05 Jul 01 - 10:19 PM

kat.....it's time for me to start replacing my instruments here...BUT I agree with Bill D. If you're still planning to go to the Getaway...why not bring it with you and have some Catters give you a few tips. Sometimes a simple change in the way you're holding it can make a LOT of difference in comfort and enjoying it. If, after that, you're still not a "match" with the instrument, I'd be interested in purchasing it.

Subject: RE: Playing the Autoharp
From: harpgirl
Date: 05 Jul 01 - 10:45 PM

It sounds as though you are holding it improperly, kat. If you hold it flat against your chest cradled in the crook of your left elbow you will see the names of the chords on the chord bars. If you had it in the crook of your right elbow you would not see the names of the chords. Are you left-handed? Or is your harp set up for a left handed person and you are right-handed?

Then on the standard 15 bar set-up, the chords are somewhat awkwardly placed. C F and g and g7th are okay but playing G D and A7th is a stretch. That is why other chord configurations are so popular.

Subject: RE: Playing the Autoharp
From: harpgirl
Date: 05 Jul 01 - 10:48 PM

...oh and they all sound like crap if they aren't properly tuned. It takes some time to be able to tune them accurately and consistently, right NO, BillD, and Rocko???

Subject: RE: Playing the Autoharp
From: catspaw49
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 12:15 AM

Good call harpy..... I hadn't thought through kat's descripition, but it does sound as though she may be holding it to the wrong side. And .....Bringing it to the Getaway is a great idea kat.......Personally, I plan on spending my time giving lots of hugs, but there IS time for some music and some lessons.....LOL.....

Spaw

Subject: RE: Playing the Autoharp
From: DonMeixner
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 12:26 AM

Hi Kat,

Mary Lou Orthey plays the Autoharp wonderfully well and she too has some .....ah..... incredible lung capacity. Assuming you are right handed sit in a straight backed chair, feet and knees about about 8" apart. Set the bottom , string anchor end , of the harp[ on your left thigh and allow the harp to fall across your left...ah.. chest. The top of the harp will be about equal to your shoulder. From this possition you should be able to see and reach all the chord bars and it should be fairly comfortable.

Don't give up too quickly, great things await the patient one.

Don

Subject: RE: Playing the Autoharp
From: BlueJay
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 02:23 AM

Kat- I would agree with Spaw et al that it's worth hanging on to, at least for a while. I was introduced to the autoharp because my wife wanted to learn an instrument, and I figured the harp would be easy for her to learn at least easy songs. She tried for a bit, but lost interest in the harp and our marriage at about the same time. We divorced, and I kept the harp. I didn't even touch it for years, until I started hearing Bryan Bowers music. I was fascinated by the problem of playing melody lines on a chorded instrument, and I eventually got it, (to a modest degree). Now, I'll never get rid of it unless to trade up. And I don't even play it very often, but when I do, I really enjoy it, if it's in tune. I have to use a tuner.

I also use the left arm cradle position, and it's quite comfortable to me. 'Course, I'm a skinny little guy with not much boobs to speak of, so I can't advise you on your challenges.

You can also take the chord mechanism apart quite easily and rearrange the chord bars to a configuration that suits you. I don't even know what the standard chord arrangement is, but my autoharp makes sense to me.

Good Luck and have some fun. If after a fair trial it ain't no fun, then ditch it. But I would seriously recommend listening to some good autoharp music first, and trying to figure it out. You just may get hooked! Thanks, BlueJay

Subject: RE: Playing the Autoharp
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 03:10 AM

Thnaks, everyone. Learning anything new is going to have take a backseat for awhile. Got some major changes which just got a big push, so my energy is going to have to be concentrated on them for awhile. Not a matter of choice, but that's they way things go sometimes.

For the record it is an old Oscar Schmidt, 12 bar, I guess that is what you call it, right? If it has 12 of those bars to press down on. I was going to link a picture of it, from the eBay auction, but the pic is not longer there. Here is the seller's description and he is a decent sort. Has a high rating and offers a money-back if you aren't happy with your purchase:

"Autoharp - Oscar Schmidt - stamped on back: 5801. This autoharp is an oldie but plays well. It is somewhat scuffed up from use, but it is really a good solid player. This autoharp will be shipped tuned and ready to play. PayPal, and other payment methods OK. GUARANTEE - Used musical instruments are best judged "in person". Buyer has choice of 15 days from my shipping date, or ten days after receipt of the autoharp, to approve it. If not approved, please return it in the same packing and same condition sent and I will refund your payment. When bidding on my auctions, you risk return shipping only. Buyer pays $15 shipping in 48 contiguous USA states or actual shipping to"

Jackie, please send me a PM, if this is something you think you'd be interested in. I don't have it handy right now to check on the number of chords, but will let you know, tomorrow.

Thanks, everyone, really do appreciate your advice.

kat

Subject: RE: Playing the Autoharp
From: wysiwyg
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 08:27 AM

Been there, Kat. If it ain't yer instrument, it ain't. And unless you can enjoy it upside down like I do, you will find it hard to hold and reach around.

Now, if you want to try it again upside down, get it on a tilted surface (the angle of a child's old school desk) and put sticky labels on the chord names till you know where they are. (I actually had my chord buttons turned around the last time it was in the shop, but your model may not have removable buttons.) And strum firmly-- a balance between left and right hands on chords and strings. Played down and upside down this way, you will get quite a lot of volume which can be a lot of fun.

But if it ain't YOURS, ditch it! Re-allocate the funds! Maybe a pickup on your plucked psaltery or treating yourself to a professional restringing of that, to get the bell-like harp tones.

Working hard to get things right is great, but if something is not one's instrument, it just ain't.

~S~

Subject: RE: Playing the Autoharp
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 01:48 PM

I am also newly learning the autoharp and do find it awkward to hold even though I do just like Harpgirl said but I also suffer from the large breast syndrome and it can make things difficult. I had similar problems with a guitar!! My main problem with learning ANY instrument is time - where does it all go and why is there never any left for me!!

Subject: RE: Playing the Autoharp
From: Chicken Charlie
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 05:54 PM

As usual I'm getting in on this after the fire has already died down, but: Don't give up too soon; memorize just the back row of bars; and I hold it so my ear is against the edge--the pitches get "inside my head" that way and I have an easier time picking the correct melody note. I believe the style that everybody is calling "burp the baby" was called Apallachian style or crosshand style after Maybelle Carter developed it. Zimmer intended the instrument to be laid on the lap and sounded to the right of the chord bars. There's not much room down there on a 15 or a 21, and anyway it sounds tinnier.

Somebody mentioned doubling on instruments. On a long, potentially monotonous number like Cumberland Gap, I have strapped my mandolin and left a dulcimer on my lap and switched off. For a grand finale, figure out a "tag" with two beats at the end, play the first (final chord) on the mando and the second on the dulcimer. I'll have to try autoharp/dulcimer that way.

CC

Subject: RE: Playing the Autoharp
From: GUEST,Neal Walters
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 09:41 PM

For those of you who want to really explore the world of the autoharp, there's a list devoted to same. Subscribe by sending the following to [e-mail].

subscribe cyberpluckers

There are about 150 'harpers on the list and there is no question they can't answer about the autoharp.

Subject: RE: Playing the Autoharp
From: DonMeixner
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 10:34 PM

Neal is a member of the Mill Run Dulcimer Band.

Subject: RE: Playing the Autoharp
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Jul 01 - 01:38 PM

Thanks, everybody. This one definitely is not for me and I have let it go and sent it on its way, where I know it will have a good home, providing it is up to standard. I really appreciate all of your encouragement and suggestions. I love my dulcimore and will concentrate on having a blast playing it and learning more.

luvyakat