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Subject: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: MudGuard Date: 10 May 00 - 07:10 AM In the song Peggy Gordon a place called Ingo is named ("I wish I was away in Ingo"). Do you know where it is? Or is it a misspelling? If so, what is the correct spelling and where is that place? TIA MudGuard |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: The Walrus (at work) Date: 10 May 00 - 01:10 PM MudGuard, I've always heard that line as "I wish I was far away in England". If, as the DT suggests, this song is from Nova Scotia, there is a certain logic in the next line ("Far across the briny sea"). Regards Walrus |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: GUEST,Timbrel Date: 11 May 00 - 07:52 AM It's "Engle", dialect for "England." |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: MudGuard Date: 11 May 00 - 08:29 AM I thought it was some form of "England", but I hear what I as a non-English-native speaker would write down as Ingall every time I listen to my record. Engle and Ingall could be (in my un-knowing opinion) pronounced quite similar, so I guess you are right, Timbrel. MudGuard |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: GUEST,lily Date: 27 Jan 09 - 01:07 PM Ingo is a place were only special humans can go ingo is water the spirit of water were everywere you breath is a mystery in the sea you will find the mer people people of the waves and ingo |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: Lighter Date: 27 Jan 09 - 04:52 PM Turn right at Fennario. |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: Joybell Date: 27 Jan 09 - 05:39 PM "... until you come to that silent spot that all true lovers know..." |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: Greenacres Date: 28 Jan 09 - 08:45 AM That's interesting. I've been singing "I wish I was a winging eagle" for years! |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: Snuffy Date: 28 Jan 09 - 09:10 AM Actually it's Ingrow, which is a mile or so south of Keighley, West Yorkshire |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: goatfell Date: 28 Jan 09 - 09:19 AM ingo in sScotland is the fireplace |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: GUEST,woodsie Date: 28 Jan 09 - 09:37 AM The Ingo in the song is in the East Indies I've read this somewhere else on mudcat. |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: Lighter Date: 28 Jan 09 - 09:41 AM There's also "Imez" in the Penguin version of "The Whale-Catchers." When Lloyd recorded the song, he changed "Imez" to "Greenland." |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: Dennis the Elder Date: 28 Jan 09 - 12:47 PM Done a little Googling, but actually found the following answer in Yahoo "Ingo seems to be a mythical place, a paradise, a land without pain. The writer overlooks the fact that pleasure is meaningless without the fear of pain." The second part of this answer is a little confusing, I for one have known pleasure without the fear of pain! Unfortunatly the writer does not specify a source for the meaning. Other people quote a celtic connection, some a connection with childrens book by Barbara Dunning and many more that it is a Scandinavian first name. I think the mythical place, a paradise, a land without pain, seems to fit the words exceedingly well and adds even more meaning to this beautiful song. |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: Lighter Date: 28 Jan 09 - 01:39 PM Would that explain where gold (ingo)ts come from? (Warning: Joke). |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 28 Jan 09 - 02:27 PM When this old, long-forgotten thread was resurrected the other day, I initially assumed that 'GUEST,lily' was just one of those slighty disturbed people who wander in here from time to time and post random nonsense; but I was wrong as it turned out. She was talking about a recent series of children's books by Helen Dunmore that feature an undersea realm called Ingo just off the Cornish coast. The books feature a boat called The Peggy Gordon, so it's pretty obvious where Ms Dunmore got 'Ingo' from. The word, anyway; using it for an undersea realm seems to have been her own idea. I'd put money on that being the source of the (almost inevitable, nowadays) 'celtic connection' claim, and I'm pretty sure that that business describing 'Ingo' as some sort of Avalon is modern and made-up, though I'd be glad to hear any evidence to the contrary. Ingo certainly is found as a christian name, though; no dispute there. The fact is that nobody knows what it means in the context of this version of 'Peggy Gordon', which was collected by Helen Creighton. The set she printed in Maritime Folk Songs (Toronto: Ryerson Press, 1962, 74-5) was a collation: text from Dennis Smith, Chezzetcook, tune from Mrs Edward Gallagher, Chebucto Head. The text is quoted without source information in thread Origins: Peggy Gordon and the DT file appears to be a cut-down form of that taken from a revival recording or possibly from Sing Out. I don't know if any other traditional examples of the song mention 'Ingo' (or anything like it) at all, but I wouldn't be surprised if Mr Smith's were the only one that does. Chances are it's just a garbling of 'England' as already suggested, with no mysterious background at all. If Mr Smith understood anything in particular by it, Miss Creighton didn't say. 'Peggy Gordon' isn't a very old song as such (second half of the C19) though of course most of it is made up of much older floating verses from the common Anglo-Scots-Irish stock. |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: Teribus Date: 29 Jan 09 - 04:59 AM Either "Eigle" in Ireland or "Ingle" in Scotland, both are farms (touns) or villages the one in Scotland is now better known as Ingleston. |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: Jim McLean Date: 29 Jan 09 - 10:49 AM Ingle in Scottish means a fireside or chimney corner. I have never heard it meaning a town. If you split the town name Ingleston in two, the ton part means town or farm and the Ingles part means English. |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: GUEST,woodsie Date: 29 Jan 09 - 03:03 PM Ingo is the Island featured in the TV series "Lost" |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: meself Date: 30 Jan 09 - 08:46 AM I've long sung "Indigo" - don't know where I got that; I don't think it's my own corruption of "Ingo", but it could be. However, that may be, I've taken it for a corruption of "India" ... the idea being that the speaker yearns not merely to be far away but as far away as possible, on the other side of the world, and somewhere exotic, where he can be "alone in the crowd" and provided with distractions - if that's the case, then the name isn't terribly important, as long as it conveys that sense of distance and exoticism. |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: MikeofNorthumbria Date: 30 Jan 09 - 08:35 PM Ingoe is a village in Northumberland, not far away from Hadrian's Wall. It's very pretty in summer, but pretty bleak in winter. Put "Ingoe, Northumberland" into Google Maps to find its location. What connection this has with a song collected in Canada I cannot imagine. Wassail! |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: Teribus Date: 31 Jan 09 - 03:08 AM Written by an immigrant perhaps, crossed in love by the maid in question and being a bit miserable he is thinking of former happier or simpler times before he left home? "I wish I was away in Ingoe Oh far across the briny sea Sailing over the deepest ocean Where love nor care ever bothered me" |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: Liam's Brother Date: 31 Jan 09 - 09:29 AM Thanks, Malcolm. It's worth quoting, too, Dennis Smith's 10th verse: I wish I was in Spenservania Where the marble stones are as black as ink, Where the pretty little girls they do adore me, I'll sing no more till I get a drink. If Ingo is England (which I suspect), then Spencervania is Pennsylvania by the same logic. "Marble sones as black as ink," a geological statement, is interesting; particularly when one refers to the Irish song, "Carrickfergus"... And in Kilkenny it is reported On marble stone as black as ink, With gold and silver I did support her But I'll sing no more till I get a drink. I would guess that somewhere in Nova Scotia there was once a particular Peggy Gordon who disappointed a young man and that the song, "Peggy Gordon," with all its floating verses coalesced around the first verse. All the best, Dan Milner |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: Canberra Chris Date: 31 Jan 09 - 09:51 AM Ingo is what you need before you can have an outcome. Just as an income is what you need for your outgoings. If we are straying into Carrickfergus lyrics, the great threads on that will save you further pointless speculation. It's the song nobody wrote about anything, and everyone wrote about everything - a fascinating read. Peggy Gordon is a great song to sing - even if a couple of bits are ingoherent. Chris |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: Liam's Brother Date: 31 Jan 09 - 12:30 PM Chris, Rather than "straying," the point is that Dennis Smith's 10th and last verse shows in the use of "Spencervania" that someone in the disemination process corrupted not one but two place names, which were probably England and Pennsylvania originally. In case you don't have Miss Creighton's book (cited by Malcolm above), the 9th verse is I wish I was as far as Ingo Way out across the briny sea, A-sailing over the deep blue water Where love nor care never trouble me. All the best, Dan |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: GUEST Date: 31 Jan 09 - 03:58 PM I always thought "Ingo" was a slightly poetic reference to England, just as "Amerikay" means America (incidentally have you heard that America was not named after Amerigo Vespucci but a Welshman, at least according to the book based on the "QI" series hosted by Stephen Fry?). It could have been originally sung as "England" (which would have the same number of syllables) and got transliterated, etc. I haven't heard of Ingo as a Christian name (though this may be my ignorance) but have heard of Inigo Jones, the architect (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inigo_Jones. The nearest I know of is Ngaio Marsh, writer of the Inspector Alleyn mysteries, but according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ngaio_Marsh the "g" is not pronounced (it seems to be "naiou", something like the sound made by a cat. Peggy Gordon is originally believed to be a Scottish song which became popular in all the English speaking countries such that if it wasn't for the Scottish surname, no-one would know of its true origin. Whether based on a real Peggy Gordon no-one knows. I suspect that even if someone wrote a song based on a real love affair they would change at least one of the names (probably the surname). Anyway, Peggy Gordon is a fine song. |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: Dennis the Elder Date: 31 Jan 09 - 07:32 PM Ingo is certainly a common Scandinavian first name, not sure but I believe most scandinavians are Christian and therefore it would be a Christian name. If you put Ingo in Google it comes up with a plethera of people named thus. I still like the idea that Ingo is a place to go to be happy, pain free and tranquil, as I get older with the niggling pains that accompany age, I wish I was there now, how about you? If anyone figgers out, wherever it may be, how to get there, could you please tell me? |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: meself Date: 01 Feb 09 - 03:27 AM "Peggy Gordon is originally believed to be a Scottish song ... " "Originally believed" by whom, GUEST, and, more importantly, on what basis? There have been one or two fairly knowledgable contributors to this thread who are not prepared to express any certainty as to the origin of the song, beyond acknowledging that versions of it were collected in Nova Scotia by Helen Creighton ... Btw, I'm not saying that it isn't Scottish, just that evidence is lacking. |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: Dennis the Elder Date: 01 Feb 09 - 04:59 AM There have been other threads regarding the source of Peggy Godon, some say it started its life as Sweet Maggie Gordon in New York arround 1880 others, Canada, Nova Scota. It did not seem to exist in England, Scotland or Ireland before 1960 although some quote it was written by Robbie Burns. Reading these previous threads there is belief that Ingo does infact refer to England, and one quotes that the "Corries" actualy sang England in their version, arround 1965, although this is unsupported. I have copied the last message from Malcolm Douglas which he posted on 14th March 2003. "What are nowadays thought of as typical Scottish and Irish "versions" of Peggy/Maggie Gordon don't seem to date back further than the 1960s; they all seem to derive from published example(s) found in Canada and subsequently recorded by popular Revival performers. Whatever the ultimate source(s) of the song -and attempting to place all the floating verses of which it is made is practically impossible, so often do they occur in so many related and unrelated songs- its modern travels are really a separate issue from a consideration of its origins. The fact that the tune to which it is sung nowadays is that most associated with the English Banks of the Sweet Primroses further clouds the matter, perhaps. On reflection, I see no reason to exclude -as I had suggested earlier- an Irish source (at least in part) for the American and Canadian sets, but the same arguments apply at least equally to possible Scottish and English traditional sources; on the whole I think it pointless to make outright claims for any. Certainly, the song in its present form is a direct product of none of them; all we can say is that it was put together in America and/or Canada, using material drawn from the common stock of Britain and Ireland, and set to a tune which was subsequently abandoned in favour of a traditional one. This is really only to summarise what was said when this discussion was originally started nearly three years ago." Will we ever realy know? |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: Jim McLean Date: 01 Feb 09 - 05:13 AM The Corries did indeed sing 'England' but they also sang 'and when I'm drinking I'm seldom thinking', obviously confusing the line from 'Im a rover, seldom sober'. |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: The Doctor Date: 01 Feb 09 - 06:32 AM I believe the village of Ingo is just a little up the lonesome valley from the village of Outgo. Incidentally Carrickfergus, with its lines: But the sea is wide and I cannot cross over, And neither have I wings to fly links up with The Water is Wide, that other famous floating verse song. |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: meself Date: 01 Feb 09 - 10:06 AM You can listen to the Corries do it here. Sounds like "England", although a little indistinct. |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: Liam's Brother Date: 01 Feb 09 - 10:16 AM "Sweet Maggie Gordon" vs. "Peggie Gordon" is a chicken and egg conundrum. Did someone from Nova Scotia become a vaudevillian in New York or did a vaudeville singer play Nova Scotia and the verse lingered on there? I had completely forgotten about "Sweet Maggie Gordon" though I have a songster with the words in it. Food for thought... |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 01 Feb 09 - 01:00 PM Still and all, the thread from which Dennis has quoted my closing comments ( Origins: Peggy Gordon ) was started by you with that very songster text. I added a reference to a very similar text from a songsheet of around the same date, which also included music. That music being very different from the published examples from later Nova Scotia oral tradition (as most of us know, Mrs Gallagher used the melody usually associated with 'Banks of the Sweet Primroses'), it would seem most likely that the vaudeville collage of floating verses found its way to Nova Scotia (and a few other places; in the thread cited, John Moulden referred to a version noted in West Virginia as 'Maggie Goddon') on printed songsheets without music. The popularity of 'Peggy Gordon' in the Revival over the last forty years or so has led many people to assume that it 'must' have been known in that form in British or Irish tradition prior to the publication of Helen Creighton's book. There is no evidence at all of that, and no reason to suppose that any of the recordings of the song by popular revival performers like the Corries are anything but arrangements of the song as published by Miss Creighton (whether learned directly from the book or via other revival performers), as opposed to being independent 'versions' in their own right. That is not a value judgement, but a general reminder that such recordings can by definition tell us nothing about what Mr Smith understood by 'Ingo'; only what later interpreters guessed he had meant. So far we have no other example from tradition that uses anything remotely resembling the word, so all answers to the original question must necessarily be guesses; it would be fatuous to pretend otherwise. Some guesses are likely to be better-informed than others, as this discussion clearly illustrates. Some guesses, indeed, are so desperately unlikely that other people have begun deliberately to post facetious 'answers'; it is not always easy to tell the difference. |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: Liam's Brother Date: 01 Feb 09 - 10:23 PM Well, Malcolm, I did write a few inches above your post the admission that "I had completely forgotten about 'Sweet Maggie Gordon' though I have a songster with the words in it." I wish I could remember everything from 8+ years ago and then forget some matters selectively. I agree when you write, "It would seem most likely that the vaudeville collage of floating verses found its way to Nova Scotia." I agree with you about recent popular recordings of Peggy Gordon in Britain. About Dennis Smith, I assume that he heard "Ingo" and "Spencervania" from his source. I just had a ramble through Webster's Geographical Dictionary and found no entry for either place in its many pages, which was my suspicion. That leads me to conclude they don't exist. I've done three market surveys in Nova Scotia as a geographer, and parts of those studies had specifically to do with the name recognition of places beyond the province. From the results, I'm sure beyond a reasonable doubt - if we are, in fact, talking about real places rather than imaginary ones - that "Ingo" in all likelihood was once England. There is no other "...vania" in North America to match Pennsylvania in fame of course. In Deep Cove, Nova Scotia in 1979, Amby Thomas sang If I had pen from Pennsylvania If I had paper of truly white If I had ink of the rosy morning A true love's promise to you I'd write. He said this about the song, "Once a new song would come out everybody would have it. You'd hear everybody singing it around home and at parties. There's a lot of it mixed up with another song. They put them words in it about Cape Breton. I have no idea who wrote it." One thing I get out of Mr. Thomas's statement is that Nova Scotia working folk could be pretty free-and-easy about details (e.g. place names) in newer lyric songs. Another is that Nova Scotians definitely "mixed up" songs. What Dennis Smith meant by "Ingo" and "Spencervania" was those very words. This thread asks, "Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo?" Depending on how the question is perceived, the answer in all likelihood is either a) nowhere, or b) England. All the best, Dan Milner |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: meself Date: 01 Feb 09 - 11:22 PM Just to clarify: Amby Thomas was talking specifically about When First I Came to Caledonia, which contains the "pen from Pennsylvania" verse. When I first read his comments, I thought the other song When...Caledonia was "mixed up with" must be either Peggy Gordon or some other with some of the the same floating verses. Looking at his words now, I realize he was referring to the Gaelic song the melody and chorus of which are incorporated into When...Caledonia. |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 02 Feb 09 - 01:14 AM Actually he may well have been talking about, if not 'Peggy Gordon', then something quite like it. In the course of looking out other versions of PG for the 'origins' thread which is currently also revived, I found a reference in Edith Fowke, A Family Heritage: The Story and Songs of LaRena Clark (University of Calgary Press, 1994) -a book that I don't have, though it turns out that extracts can be seen via Google Books- to a song in P W Joyce, Old Irish Folk Music and Songs (1909): 'When First I Came to the County Limerick'. Although there are certainly parallels with 'Peggy Gordon', it's rather closer to 'When First I Came to Caledonia' and it seems possible that it, or something very like it, could have provided the model for the latter song. It may also provide an Irish antecedent for 'Peggy Gordon', but is of no help in identifying 'Ingo', on which I doubt there is anything further to say. |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: Liam's Brother Date: 07 Feb 09 - 01:33 AM Amen. |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: goatfell Date: 07 Feb 09 - 08:03 AM this is the words from their songboook The Corries complete and it can found on page 53. oh Peggy Gordon you are my darling come sit ye doon upon my knee and tell tae me the very reason why I am slighted by thee I am in love I cannot deny it my heart is troubled in my breast it's not for you to let the world know it a troubled heart can find no rest I put my head to a cask of brandy it was my fancy for to do for when I'm drinking I'm seldom thinking and wishing Peggy Gordon was here I wish I was away in Ingol far across the bringy sea sailing over the deepest ocean where love and care ne'er bother me I wish I was in a lonely valley where womankind cannot be found where all the small birds they change their voices and every moment a different sound |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: The Sandman Date: 08 Feb 09 - 07:27 AM does it matter ,can in not be a mythical place,which is different for every singer . |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: goatfell Date: 08 Feb 09 - 09:10 AM why does people read what is said by myself and Jim Mclean in Scotland It's the firplace not a town or a country |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: goatfell Date: 08 Feb 09 - 09:12 AM Why Doesn't people read what I and Jim McLean say Ingol means fire pace in Scotland, it's not a town or a country or anything else please read the posts before you make a remark on them |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: Jim McLean Date: 08 Feb 09 - 10:11 AM Ingle is a fire, not ingol. |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: Mr Happy Date: 08 Feb 09 - 10:23 AM Piles've Ingo's here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=Ingo&fulltext=Search |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: The Sandman Date: 08 Feb 09 - 12:37 PM and ingle nook,is still a term in use in England.ingle nook is achimney cforner to want to be back by the fire does not make sense,not unless the hero of the song is a chimney sweep ,who has got withdrawals since he retired from his trade. |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: Lighter Date: 08 Feb 09 - 01:51 PM "I wish I were in the fireplace." Somehow I doubt it. |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 08 Feb 09 - 01:58 PM Ingo, outgo, who cares? |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: Terry McDonald Date: 08 Feb 09 - 02:37 PM Why are people still debating this? Don't they trust Malcolm Douglas? He gave an authoritative explanation, fully referenced, history of the song yet fanciful (or wishful)ones are still being put forward. |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: GUEST Date: 07 Apr 09 - 02:24 PM that's doubtful, on account of the song being from the point of view of an english lord and land owner in scotland who is in love with a commoner (peggy gordon) and there is no sea to cross between scotland and england |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: Ross Campbell Date: 07 Apr 09 - 03:30 PM Talk about fanciful? Ross |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: meself Date: 07 Apr 09 - 03:35 PM Poor Malcolm ... |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: GUEST Date: 08 Apr 09 - 11:18 AM I thought maybe, short for Ingonish on Cabe Breton Island |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: goatfell Date: 08 Apr 09 - 12:05 PM it's just a love song from Scotland and ingol is SCOTTISH for fireplace ingolnook. not a town or country it has nothing to do with the sea or the ocean or anything else when are people going to belive my self who is a SCOT or Jim McClean or anyone else that says that ingol is a fire place (ingolnook), please read the posts first. |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: Terry McDonald Date: 08 Apr 09 - 12:15 PM My post of 8 February still seems pertinant. |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: Jim McLean Date: 08 Apr 09 - 12:18 PM I'm afraid I'll have to answer the 'Last Post' and I sincerely hope it is! I did NOT say ingol is a fireplace, I said ingle is a fireplace: Ingle in Scottish means a fireside or chimney corner. I have never heard it meaning a town. If you split the town name Ingleston in two, the ton part means town or farm and the Ingles part means English. Please, end of story. |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: Jim McLean Date: 08 Apr 09 - 01:10 PM Sorry, Terry, when I said the Last Post I meant Goatfell's. |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: Terry McDonald Date: 08 Apr 09 - 01:19 PM Yes, I realised that, Jim! |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: dj bass Date: 09 Apr 09 - 09:35 AM Oh dear. I've been singing this song for nearly 40 years. I learned it from an Ulster woman who claimed it was an Irish song. All this time I've been singing: I wish I was a-whaling gone Far across the icy sea Sailing o'er the deepest ocean Where love nor care never parted be. I've always argued that this one-off reference to whaling made it more likely to be a Scottish or Canadian song. Now I find I'm in the land of the Mondegreen. Unless, of course, I've been right all this time and everyone else in the world is wrong! dj (btw I'm not going to change now - whaling makes more sense to me than Ingo) |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: GUEST,guest, jen Date: 09 Apr 09 - 10:14 AM why does it matter? a fireplace, a mythical land, england... i've been known to write a few songs, and when you need a place and don't care what it is, your mind makes things to fit. maybe he glanced at the fireplace. |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: dj bass Date: 09 Apr 09 - 10:56 AM That'll be the fireplace on a whaler going from a mythical land to England, I expect. |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: goatfell Date: 09 Apr 09 - 11:25 AM |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: goatfell Date: 09 Apr 09 - 11:27 AM got the message Jim in other words shut up ok |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: Jim McLean Date: 09 Apr 09 - 12:30 PM It wasn't personal, Goatfell, it's just that I think the matter has been dealt with over and over again. |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: goatfell Date: 09 Apr 09 - 12:37 PM OK I agree with you no more to be said |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: GUEST Date: 19 Apr 09 - 08:02 PM I have read a book with the title Ingo, taken from the somg oh peggy gordon. I hope for the authors sake that this is really what it is. |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: GUEST Date: 19 Apr 09 - 08:09 PM In a book by Helen Dunmore, Ingo is an underwater realm, I suppose one could call it a kind of paradise. The book quotes the lyrics to oh peggy gordon several times. |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: GUEST,merchild Date: 03 Jul 09 - 05:46 PM Ingo is the ocean. |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: meself Date: 04 Jul 09 - 12:05 AM Oh. |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: goatfell Date: 04 Jul 09 - 07:24 AM I'm fed up writing this now for the LAST TIME INGO IN SCOTLAND MEANS A FIRE PLACE AND NOT THE OCEAN I just wish people would read my post and JIm McLean's post |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: goatfell Date: 04 Jul 09 - 07:25 AM Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: goatfell - PM Date: 08 Apr 09 - 12:05 PM it's just a love song from Scotland and ingol is SCOTTISH for fireplace ingolnook. not a town or country it has nothing to do with the sea or the ocean or anything else when are people going to belive my self who is a SCOT or Jim McClean or anyone else that says that ingol is a fire place (ingolnook), please read the posts first. this is my first of many posts on this subject |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: GUEST,Tooky Date: 12 Aug 09 - 10:28 PM why can't we all just leave it, and believe that Ingo is some kind of Avalon-type place, where all the singers trobles will be washed away? Some kind of escape. cos it does say "Where love nor care ne'er troble me" and, even if the singer was in england, they'd have trobles, and love, and is they were in the fire place, of course they'de have trobles, they'de be burning.lol |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: Peace Date: 12 Aug 09 - 10:31 PM So, uh, does ingo mean ocean or fireplace in Scotland? |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: Peace Date: 12 Aug 09 - 10:38 PM I'm JOKING, Goatfell. |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: GUEST,elli Date: 13 Aug 09 - 01:00 AM hey, merchild, y did u call ur self merchild??? sorry, random question. u was going to call myself almost the same thing..... |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: GUEST,Jenny PLEASE READ THIS Date: 08 Sep 09 - 04:11 PM Has nobody ever read the book called 'Ingo' by Helen Dunmore? I'm sure you'll find your answer there. :) |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: Taconicus Date: 25 Sep 10 - 10:48 PM I always assumed it was Indo, an 18'th-19'th Century term referring to Indo-Burma, what we today call Southeast Asia, i.e., Vietnam and points west. The exotic ultimate get-away-from-it-all for Victorian era types who wanted to escape civilization. (Ever read Lord Jim?) Of course, I could be wrong. |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: Taconicus Date: 25 Sep 10 - 10:50 PM Link: Indo-Burma |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: Lighter Date: 26 Sep 10 - 07:52 AM Coincidence?: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_Ingol |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: Taconicus Date: 10 Oct 10 - 08:00 PM River Ingol... By George, you may have something there! And "Ingol" sounds much better in the lyrics and the song than "Snettisham" would! - ljol |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: GUEST Date: 17 Nov 10 - 04:48 PM Where is this lonesome valley then? ;) |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: GUEST,laszlo Date: 21 Mar 11 - 11:47 AM Ingoe was a mining community in Northumberland which makes a bit of sense |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: FolkFella Date: 22 Mar 11 - 02:58 AM Peggy Gordon was in my repertoire for years and I sang 'Away in Ingoe' for a long time then changed it to 'I wish I was, a-whaling gone-O' |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: Wolfhound person Date: 22 Mar 11 - 05:58 AM Ingo/e was a hilltop mediaeval village, involved in the reiving culture, and is now a small farming community, populated years ago by the Shaftoe family and the Dixons. Both were in the train of the Fenwicks. Fenwick Tower is a mile or so across the fields and the mines were there, not at Ingoe. When Fenwick lost his lands (and his head), the Dixons got lease of the tower and mines. One of their number later moved to Glasgow and became a prominent ironmaster in a dynasty that lasted till the 1960s. Paws |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? Paradise and Eng From: GUEST Date: 12 Apr 12 - 04:02 PM |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: Mr Happy Date: 13 Apr 12 - 05:58 AM In go? The way in, entrance? |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: Wolfhound person Date: 13 Apr 12 - 06:39 AM Ingo/e: the spur (of a hill) covered with pasture. Think Ing, as in INtake pasture, and hoe from hoh / heugh / haugh, hill. according to Northumberland Place Names by Godfrey Watson. Paws |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: Taconicus Date: 25 Oct 12 - 11:14 AM The earliest known published version of Peggy Gordon was a broadside printed in New York City, circa 1823, by a printing company that published lyrics of a number of popular tunes of the time. I obtained the manuscript from the New York Historical Society, who dated its probable publication based on the known history of the publishing company and when it was located at the address printed on the broadside. In that document, the lyrics of the two verses that begin "I wish I was in ____" gives a place name that is slightly illegible (see photo which may be viewed at this link) but seems to be Caropage, and another which is Covel's Castle. I've been unable to find a gazetteer that could identify either of those putative place names. Accordingly, one might suppose the Indo/Ingo lyric could be a later addition to the song. Alternatively, these published lyrics could be could be of a different version, perhaps a "drinking song" version. However, it is interesting to note that this publication significantly predates any other suggested origin date for Peggy Gordon. |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: GUEST,Lighter Date: 25 Oct 12 - 11:59 AM Nice, Taconicus. Can you post the entire lyrics? Note the similarity of the "marble stones" stanza to similar lines in "Carrickfergus." |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 25 Oct 12 - 12:04 PM When I encounter a song, one thing I ask myself is, "Do I want to dignify its attitudes by singing it?" Because dignifying those attitudes help spread them. If I don't like the attitudes, I don't sing the song. Take the first verse of this one: O Peggy Gordon, You are my darling Come sit you down upon my knee And tell to me the very reason Why I am slighted so by thee. She isn't attracted to him, doesn't want to get involved. Yet he demands that she get cozy and justify herself. Experience tells me that anything she says will be wrong and will provoke argument and blame. Ages ago, when I was younger, slimmer, prettier and (most of all) had a good-paying job, men I hardly knew would put me in this position. I was supposed to explain why I didn't want to date a man I hardly knew and felt no attraction for. This can be frightening, ya know? Finally I thought of a way to handle it. I invented an imaginary boyfriend who had a prior claim. Every time, when the imaginary boyfriend was mentioned, the unwanted suitor slinked away. Do y'all have daughters and granddaughters in my position? Tell them about the imaginary boyfriend technique. |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: meself Date: 25 Oct 12 - 12:45 PM I really think that's an "attitude" that you're projecting onto those lyrics - which you are perfectly entitled to do, of course, but it's unfair to attribute the attitude to the lyrics themselves. There are many possible situations these lyrics might suggest, which is probably part of their appeal. Why, for instance, assume that Peggy Gordon hardly knows the speaker? Perhaps they have been involved in a lengthy conjugal relationship, one feature of which has been her propensity to sit on his knee and update him on the state of their affairs .... |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: Taconicus Date: 25 Oct 12 - 01:46 PM Sure, Lighter. Here are the lyrics from the 1820s broadside. Some of the verses seem possibly derived from even earlier folk traditions (e.g., the seas are deep, and I cannot … neither have I wings to fly) but it also has some very interesting differences from more modern versions, for example "My heart is lock'd up in thy breast". And yet I find modern versions lyrically superior in many respects, and therefore an improvement. Peggy Gordon Here is a pic of the original manuscript. If needed for serious research, I have a much more detailed PDF of it (6 MB). Courtesy of New York Historical Society, 170 Central Park West New York, NY 10024. |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: Taconicus Date: 25 Oct 12 - 01:52 PM "... are as black as ink." You can check the pic for other possible typos in my transcription. |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: GUEST,Lighter Date: 25 Oct 12 - 01:53 PM > but it's unfair to attribute the attitude to the lyrics themselves. And thus to the people who sing them. The actors who play Shakespeare's Cassius don't generally want to assassinate their current political leaders, nor are they influenced to do so by memorizing Cassius's lines and living in the part through endless rehearsals. Nor does watching "Julius Caesar" ordinarily incite members of the audience to start a revolution. I think the notion of "subliminal influence" has been vastly exaggerated. Not that it doesn't exist. Nor should you sing what doesn't appeal to you. |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: GUEST,Mavis Enderby Date: 25 Oct 12 - 02:37 PM Ingo is a mile or so up from Skeggy. |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: GUEST,Seonaid Date: 25 Oct 12 - 03:42 PM Ingol = where ball goes, if not blocked. |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: GUEST,guest Date: 25 Oct 12 - 05:01 PM Ingo is definately an underwater magical land where only people with mer blood (or seal tails) can go. it is a realm that exists in the water, though if you are say diving or swimming you are not in ingo, as you need to pass through abarriar. it is a place where noone has any worries or care and just drifts along everywhere :) |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: Taconicus Date: 25 Oct 12 - 06:22 PM Is it too much to ask for BS posts to be relegated to the BS (non-music) section? "Lyrics and Knowledge" becomes less useful otherwise (or at least harder to read through). |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: GUEST,Lighter Date: 25 Oct 12 - 10:00 PM Thanks, Tac. |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: GUEST,Sean Laffey Date: 25 Mar 13 - 04:19 PM Ingo Folks might it be that Dennis Smith was referring to Ingonish, a town ship and harbour on the NorthEast Coast of Cape Breton? Ingonish is still pretty remote almost 60 years later. The population can't number much more than 1500. Lovely Church there, which hosts concerts during Celtic Colours each October. |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: GUEST Date: 25 Mar 13 - 05:00 PM Ingo nish again, the settlement got it's Catholic Church by 1720 (the present Church is a rebuild on a new site). The township was in French hands and called Naganiche until 1763. Naganinche might be a French version of an a Native Mikmaq place name( Mikmaq has been poorly documented and no reliable 18th century vocabulary exists). Although some suggest it could be a French corruption of Portuguese as the Portuguese had a fishing harbour there from 1525 onwards. The area was Anglicised to Ingo-nish after the expulsion of the Acadians in 1763 and the town was rebuilt after it was destroyed by the retreating French aon the fall of Fort Louisbourg. The early settlers to Ingonish (1800s onwards) were predominantly from Ireland, Scotland and Wales. Ingo would then be a candidate for a place that exists, is remote and in the 19th century easily reached via sea not road. Any Cape Bretoners on the list who might shed some light on this? |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: Richard Bridge Date: 26 Mar 13 - 04:30 AM 100 |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: Taconicus Date: 27 Mar 13 - 12:48 PM Thanks, Sean L. I like the idea of using Ingonish (the place on Cape Breton Island) in the lyric, regardless of what the original singer who used Ingo meant. In has Ingo in it, and it's a real place that's both on the sea and "far across the briny sea" (if you're singing in Ireland or Scotland). |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: GUEST,scottish music nut Date: 18 Dec 13 - 11:42 AM for the record it is ingol it means england.its written in ye olde englishe so it isnt exactly easy to understand unles you know the slang |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: meself Date: 18 Dec 13 - 12:27 PM Guest: An interesting possibility. You seem quite confident - but what basis do you have for that interpretation? |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: GUEST Date: 09 Mar 18 - 10:27 AM ingonish |
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Subject: RE: Peggy Gordon: where is Ingo? From: meself Date: 10 Mar 18 - 11:56 AM Much as I like the idea of Ingonish, I seriously doubt it has any connection. Has anyone ever heard of Ingonish being shortened to 'Ingo'? It doesn't seem natural - the "o" is muted in the usual pronunciation of Ingonish: ING-guh-NISH. Furthermore, I think the writer/singer would have been trying for something that seemed a little more 'exotic'. |
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