Help: How can I leave my sheet music behind?

Subject: How can I leave my sheet music behind?
From: Uncle Tom Soberly
Date: 10 May 00 - 08:11 AM

My problem is simple. i can play lots of tunes from printed music but trying to retain them in the"old" grey matter is someting different. How do you mudratters do it? Share your secrets with me, (PLEASE)

Subject: RE: Help: How can I leave my sheet music behind?
From: IanC
Date: 10 May 00 - 09:19 AM

Hard to say, because I can't read music fast enough to play directly from it. I suspect that, except in exceptional people, playing by ear and from music are not completely compatible.

I have no problem picking up tunes after once or twice round, but I have more problem with the words so perhaps what I do with words will me more help. Try listening to a recording over and over again until you are fed up with the tune, humming it to yourself over and over again and generally "soaking it up". I find if I can hum it or whistle it, I can play it on any instrument too.

Cheers!

IanC

Subject: RE: Help: How can I leave my sheet music behind?
From: Mudjack
Date: 10 May 00 - 09:22 AM

Practice, practice, practice. Put the tunes in your head by memory like hearing them when you are driving or walking. Repetitious playing eventually becomes second nature. Try playing your most favorite tune with out the sheet music until you get it. Then on to the next. Once you have them set to memory, you'll likely never forget them.
It might be something to do with playing by ear Vs sight reading music. Since I never learned how to read music I may have to rely on memorizing the sounds. That does not come with out the downsides, such as when I do a song, some one might want to argue the way it is supposed to sound which is a real problem if you are playing music in a band and the miusic should be played the same. But then to I do a lot of solo music or folks join in to my beat of the march.
Mudjack

Subject: RE: Help: How can I leave my sheet music behind?
From: GUEST,Ella
Date: 10 May 00 - 10:03 AM

Well I agree with practice pracitice etc.

Keep playing the same tune over and over. But break it up to learn it, learn the first half of a tune. If it is Irish perhaps do the first part, then as you go on, try testing your self and make yourself not look at the notes, even though they are infront of you.

It does help to if you hear other people play tunes alot. I have learnt a few tunes entirely from sessions, I have never seen the notes. I have got these tunes by hearing them so much and then sitting in the background quietly trying to pitch the note on the instrument I am playing, then gradually it clicks in.

It is not something that comes to most people straight away, but once you have it, it just clicks.

It is like learning the times tables pigeon/parrot fashion really.

Ella

Subject: RE: Help: How can I leave my sheet music behind?
From: Mark Clark
Date: 10 May 00 - 10:04 AM

I assume you're speaking of the lyrics, not the melody or the chords. I think melodies just slip one's head, I don't recall ever starting out to learn a melody. If the melody hasn't already wormed its way into my head, I will never realize I want to learn the piece. Like many people, I began by memorizing chord progressions---I still need to do that for jazz tunes---but the chords for most folk, old-timey, bluegrass and blues tunes are usually predictable from the melody alone so I usually don't bother looking them up.

Lyrics are another problem altogether. I've often spent considerable time learning lyrics to songs. Sometimes I learn them by osmosis over long years and sometimes I write them down and take them with me everywhere singing constantly to myself or perhaps aloud as the occasion permits. Sometimes I'll go for years thinking that I should learn a particular song and when I finally sit down to do it, I discover that the job is nearly done. My wife and daughters complain that I can remember the words to a long ballad from thirty years ago but I can't remember what happened yesterday. (Luckily, they haven't asked me anything about today.)

My real problem is remembering that I know a song---remembering that the song exists. If someone can name a song, I may be able to perform it but if I'm just asked to sing a song, I draw a blank every time. Sometimes I make lists of all the songs I might be able to perform. These lists are never exactly the same but they usually wind up with two or three hundred songs. I'm still adding to the list but I'm also starting to forget some. I guess Sir Arthur Conan Doyle was right.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: Help: How can I leave my sheet music behind?
From:
Date: 10 May 00 - 10:48 AM

Mark, some times melodies don't remain. They are there while someone is singing a song, and I can sing along with them, but try to recall the tune later is almost impossible.

I know I like it, but darn if I can recall it.

No, the best way is to play a tune/sing a song OVER and OVER and OVER and OVER.

Remember how we learned the multiplication tables? Or are some of you young enough you had calculators the whole way through school?

Subject: RE: Help: How can I leave my sheet music behind?
From: Whistle Stop
Date: 10 May 00 - 11:18 AM

Somebody mentioned in another thread that classical musicians tend to have trouble improvising, because they spend all their time and energies learning to play what's on the written page. An over-generalization, to be sure, but it was a fair point. I also think that this dynamic may hold true to some extent with memorizing. If you're accustomed to using sheet music, you may not develop your memorization skills as much as someone else who HAS to rely on memory.

I realize this doesn't give you anything concrete to work with; sorry, just musing. I think the advice that a couple of other folks gave is good -- practice, practice, practice, and try to wean yourself off the written page in stages as you go. Beyond that, I don't have much advice to offer; good luck.

Subject: RE: Help: How can I leave my sheet music behind?
From: Mark Clark
Date: 10 May 00 - 11:25 AM

George,

I didn't mean to imply that I have some way around all the the necessary repition. I also sing/play a new piece over and over and over and over. It's just that my memory of a potential piece depends on whether the thing stuck itself in my mind at some point. If it didn't, I won't remeber that I wanted to learn to perform it.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: Help: How can I leave my sheet music behind?
From: radriano
Date: 10 May 00 - 11:30 AM

Here's what I do to get away from sheet music. I play a melody slowly into a tape recorder. Then I put the sheet music away and learn the tune from the tape. Playing the melody slowly has the advantage of allowing you to hear each note clearly. It also allows you to be more aware of phrasing patterns. Works for me!

Subject: RE: Help: How can I leave my sheet music behind?
From: Wesley S
Date: 10 May 00 - 11:32 AM

I've noticed that in the past I've had trouble remembering the "words" to a song. But if I try to recall the "story" behind the song the words come a lot easier.

Subject: RE: Help: How can I leave my sheet music behind?
From: GUEST,Allan S.
Date: 10 May 00 - 12:22 PM

As to remembering the words to new song YOU CAN"T. THere comes a point with age it is just impossible to remember the words. I can remember the words to songs I learned 50 years ago but no mater how I try it now it is impossible. I have the words infront of me when I sing. If any one says something Just use the quote " As you are, I once was. As I am, you will become." My M.D. said it is the aging process. I jokingly said I don't like the ageing process. His reply was the alternitive is much worse.

Subject: RE: Help: How can I leave my sheet music behind?
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 10 May 00 - 01:27 PM

Hell, I wish I could read music it'd make life easier sometimes, but having never taken a piece of music with me to use in public-except one little silly I had written, I have to remember all. You need to work hard and play it again and again, unless you get 1st time. Cheers. Eric

Subject: RE: Help: How can I leave my sheet music behind?
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 10 May 00 - 10:10 PM

Learning to play by ear is a painstaking, but very rewarding process. I'm not sure if it's tunes or songs you're speaking of, or both, but the main thing is to listen, listen, and listen, and force yourself to rely on your ea. One can lean by taking a tune or song in "rounds," meaning, find a recording of the music, and play the whole number over and over again, each time picking up a note or two. Another way is by breaking up the music into more easily digestible sections, taking it a little at a time. You just might amaze yourself how much your ear can improve when you force that kind of learning on yourself. Ironically, it might help you be a better reader, as well, because after hearing how tunes should sound (again, if you're speaking of tunes) you will be able to interpret the little black dots on the page better than before. Maybe the same goes for singing? I think sheet music definitely has it's place, though, because you can just plain come into contact with more music, and, again, will be able to interpret it better. Hope this helps.

Subject: RE: Help: How can I leave my sheet music behind?
From: paddymac
Date: 10 May 00 - 10:56 PM

Reading and playing simutaneously on the hammered dulcimer is beyond the ken of most mere mortals such as myself. I don't read well enough to play and read on any instrument, though I do read well enough learn a tune from the paper. However, I must take it in phrases. That sort of "limitation" is actually a helpful device in dissecting and analyzing a tune. Once I start to learn a tune from the paper, the first step is "hearing" the phrase as I work it out initially, and then it's a process of stringing the phrases together. When I get to the end, I have the tune "by ear" but also carry a mental image of the paper around in my head. That's not a thing I do deliberately, but it seems to be a by-product of the method. I hasten to add that just because this method seems to work for me is no guarantee it would work for anybody else. The key words are "work" and "individuality".

Subject: RE: Help: How can I leave my sheet music behind?
From: sophocleese
Date: 10 May 00 - 11:04 PM

You can take the excellent advice of all those who posted before this or you can simply forget to put it in your guitar case when you head out to a gig. For myself I find it easier to remember tunes with words, I hear the phrase and I can hear the tune that went with it. When I memorize wordless tunes I break them down into phrases and remember them phrase by phrase. Nonetheless I still often have a problem with saying "I will now play X." and then forget the first three notes and have to hum the ending to myself to get back to the beginning. When that happens I try and force myself to remember the names of the notes at the beginning ie, "Its A D D C B" not just "da Da da da daa"...

Subject: RE: Help: How can I leave my sheet music behind?
From: katlaughing
Date: 11 May 00 - 01:51 AM

AllanS, tell your M.D. it doesn't have to be so! MY dad turned 83 this week and a few years ago set himself the goal of learning several new songs per month. Sure he can recall ones from 60-70 years ago easily, but he also recalls the more recent ones. The only cheatsheet he carries is the names of the songs listed according to how he plans to perform them.

I grew up playing violin in orchestra, reading music, but also listening to mom and dad play for dances, and we kids singing along. If I try to play something trad from the sheet music, I find my ear takes over, if there are any variations, and I just forget the music and play what my ear remembers.

Subject: RE: Help: How can I leave my sheet music behind?
From: Psaltry Psue
Date: 11 May 00 - 07:17 AM

I write down just the names of the notes. I already know the tune (I will some times add the lyrics when I first start learning a new song) and then play it phrase by phrase till I know it all the way through. That way I can carry my music in a small note book and a quick peek is usually enough to remind me.

Subject: RE: Help: How can I leave my sheet music behind?
From: GUEST,Timbrel
Date: 11 May 00 - 07:34 AM

As far as remembering lyrics...I recently had to learn a large stack of new lyrics during a class I was taking as part of my job. Fortunately, our instrustors had great strategies for us.

The most useful one was based on a US Army touch-typing program (really!) For music, it boiled down to this: play the tune until the melody is burned into your brain and you can hum along with it. When you have that down, start on the words...first verse and chorus only. Once they are memorized, take a BREAK: this is very important, to think about something else entirely for 10 minutes or so.

Then go back and sing through the 1st verse and chorus, and try adding the 2nd verse. Practice until you have that down, and then take another break...and so on until the song is permanently etched in your memory.

This simple system works wonders...especially when you have a passel of lyrics to memorize.

Subject: RE: Help: How can I leave my sheet music behind?
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 11 May 00 - 08:19 PM

Well I guess I'm kind of lucky. I've been vocationally blind for all of my performing life - I never could see well enough to read music or cheat sheets while performing, but like some others the key success factor for me has been rehearsal with others. The other creed which has worked well for me when something goes wrong is 'Stay loose and NEVER apologise, either before or after a performance'. In my opinion audiences feel cheated if you tell them you just learned this on the way to the gig. It's better to say you've been working on it for some time. If you apologise after an item you are simply alerting the majority of the audience who were blissfully unaware. Regards, John

Subject: RE: Help: How can I leave my sheet music behind?
From: Gypsy
Date: 11 May 00 - 11:00 PM

For tunes, take particular note of the patterns that you create when playing. I play hammered dulcimer, so patterns are very important to me. I learn off of sheet music, but it is nigh on impossible to play from it! For songs, you gotta sing them. I have a playlist of about 150 songs/tunes that i trot thru weekly

Subject: RE: Help: How can I leave my sheet music behind?
From: NancyZ
Date: 12 May 00 - 11:29 AM

Hi Uncle Tom, Let's see if I can add something to the other posts above. Start by taking a tune you already know very well. One that you can hum in your head already. Now start with the first phrase, play it over and over until you have a grasp of it. Now keep adding onto it until you have the first part complete. You're weaning yourself off the sheet music. Soon you'll see that once you have the tune memorized, you'll find it a hard to look at the sheet music and play.

Another idea is if you have a program like Cakewalk (you can download a free version) you can take a midi tune and play it slooowly, taking the tune apart, until you can play it up to speed. It just takes practice, you're teaching your brain another way to learn. Once you know the tune your body will take over and the tune just seems to come out on its own, at least that's how it is for me!

I can't sight read music quickly, I have to transpose the notes to fiddle tab, but if it's a difficult song it helps to give me a jump start on it. Keep practicing! Cheers, Nancy

Subject: RE: Help: How can I leave my sheet music behind?
From: GUEST,Joel
Date: 12 May 00 - 12:12 PM

My advice for remembering instrumental melodies:
Sing them while you practice and also away from
the instrument. I find learning by ear really
helpful. Try to sing 2 bar phrase #1 from a recording, then find
it on your instrument. Do the same with phrase
#2, connect them together, etc. Also notice
how tunes you are learning are similar
to tunes you know. Music jam sessions in pubs
are really good practice for this. I try to define
a tune by phrases & familiar melodic moves, and play
it the second time through (quietly). Reading up on
music theory, especially the concept of "guide tone lines"
can be very helpful. I also practice a lot of
patterns and extend them into unfamiliar places.
Consider: do=1 re=2 etc. try these patterns 321432543654 or 423153426453
etc Also I do a lot of noodling, but with a purpose :^)
Its playing fiddletune type phrases and recognizing
the underlying arpeggio fragments. A nice lick over
a chord incorporates or "approaches" the arpeggio in
some interesting way. You can analyze this if you know
all the notes on your instrument. All these things
I've mentioned serve to build-in flexibility and pattern
recognition. The opposite of this is to rely on what I call
"finger memory" without the "singing voice" being engaged.
Joel Glassman

Subject: RE: Help: How can I leave my sheet music behind?
From: selby
Date: 12 May 00 - 01:38 PM

I have the same problem of weaning of sheet music, I found that the music became a crutch but by moving the music progresively further away from where I was playing I found I could play without music. But I now end up in another pickle because the tune has been learn't of an interpretation of how sombody wrote it down is not always the same tune being played by others the title may be the same but not the notes. Keith