Keep Your Day Job Kid!!!

Subject: Keep Your Day Job Kid!!!
From: mactheturk
Date: 20 May 00 - 10:00 AM

Advising our children on career decisions is always tough, I guess. I thought it might be fun to share some ideas concerning the young singer-songwriter.

The dilemma(or opportunity) usually has to do with what's practical verses a very real passion for music.

The easy answer, of course is "go with your passion", but most parents and all veteran musicians, understand the real challenges.

What are your thoughts?

Mac

Subject: RE: Keep Your Day Job Kid!!!
From: MK
Date: 20 May 00 - 10:44 AM

Normally the saying "hard work pays off", and can generally be applied to most things, with one exception being, the music business.

Without getting into a separate debate as to what defines success, you should do something in life that hopefully achieves two goals in a singular way; one, doing what makes you truly happy and fulfilled, and secondly being able to earn a living in doing so. One can be considered blessed if able to actually achieve both. (Many people are stuck in jobs that they hate, but because of mortgages, families, bills, they have no other choice, and lead lives filled with frustration and depression.)

With respect to a career in music, (and speaking from almost 20 years of personal experience) I would tell my children, that you would have to love it more than anything itself except perhaps family, and, breathing, and to do it because you feel compelled...but bear in mind that if your goal is to "make it in the business" the chances are about as good as winning a lottery ticket. I would caution them that they are entering a businesst that if they're lucky will give them back about 1/10th of what they give to it.

You can have all the talent and charisma in the world; be the greatest song writer, vocalist or instrumentalist ever heard, but if you're not the current "flavor of the month" that record companies are looking for, forget it. Talent is secondary. Marketing, promotion and business accumen are foremost. Most (not all) really good musicians lack the latter, and languish in obscurity because of it.

For every person or band that actually gets signed to a major label, there are a 100 others out there who are better and more often than not, more deserving.

It also depends on what you want out of life. I believe in having a trade or skill outside of music, that will enable you to earn a decent living, should the music business prove unsuccessful to you in accomplishing your dreams, or that at some point you give up, get burned out, or just decide you gave it your best shot, and it was just too much of a long term struggle to sustain.
It is also a nomadic, adventurous but very insecure lifestyle. Sometimes very romantic; sometimes filled with desperation and anguish.

If after everything I've said, my child is still undaunted (then unlike my own parents) I will support them in any way I can ---up to a point! *BG*

Subject: RE: Keep Your Day Job Kid!!!
From: Mooh
Date: 20 May 00 - 11:11 AM

Reality check time hurts, doesn't it!

Two years ago I walked away from a pretty decent paying day job that just ate up time and created so much stress that I was turning into a zombie when I wasn't working and a maniac when I was. After a time I found a low paying but stress free part-time job (which could become full-time but I don't think I want it to) which allowed me to do music at least part-time (lessons and gigging). I am much happier now, but I'm coming out of the other end of the career choice scenerio, and its 23 years later.

Had I to do it all over again, I would not have allowed the music to be pushed aside, even if it meant lower paying day job(s). But hindsight vs foresight arguments don't get us anywhere. With or without support from family and/or friends at an early stage, we have to take day jobs, and we have to stay focused on the real ambition, music. This means even taking music jobs we mightn't prefer. The singer/songwriter may have to do the reception band thing, roadie, theatre, band, sessions, teach, studio, whatever to simply gain a foothold in the field. All that learned related experience is worthwhile anyway and will pay dividends later in the career, or may lead to other opportunities which weren't at first considered. Failure is almost assured if one limits oneself to the singer/songwriter field alone before one is established, unless one is blessed with all the possible luck and talent in the world. Outside experience makes better songwriters anyway.

Having to flip burgers or push a broom may not be the ideal way of reaching the s/s goal, but it beats starving to death. My personal experience was that I allowed music to take a back seat to other things for too long and suffered for it. I lost sight of the goal for a few years, and when my vision cleared I became all the more resolved to accomplish what I set out to do after high school. (In case you're wondering, I am supporting a family throughout all this.) Though I'm not bent on the s/s goal so much as a general music income, in my neck of the woods the disadvantages are similar.

The problems...relocation vs staying put...vehicle ownership vs public transport...standard of living...equipment requirements...family/relationship issues...providing for future security...saving money...management vs self-management...shiftwork...seasonal work...leaves from work...debt...exposure...bookings...recordings...publicity...etc, ect, etc...

When my kids ask, the answer will be "go with your passion" and "we'll do what we can to help". I wish it had been thus for me. But we will expect a suitable degree of accountability and so on. Sometimes we don't know where we're going until we get there, but it helps to have a map, and a helping hand.

More thoughts later.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: Keep Your Day Job Kid!!!
From: Peter T.
Date: 20 May 00 - 11:28 AM

Michael K. - Is the ratio of professionals to available work as bad as that? (I am asking this from the position of someone who was in the theatre for awhile, another really stable career profession (!) and saw that it was total hell, and got out). In the theatre world, there are many people who are at least as good as the people who are getting paid, meagerly, for what they do; and way more people in the business than the tiny number of superstars. But a really good actor who perseveres will be able to find work: it gets harder as you get older, and it gets really bad for women, but if you have a track record, you can still find work for a long time. There are lots of journeymen actors around. But there are hundreds of hundreds of thousands of people who think they are actors, but are total crap. That is why the ratios in acting (the union, etc.) look so bad: there are thousands and thousands of people who call themselve actors who would never make it, whatever happened.

I guess you were talking about getting signed to a major record label as the sign of success for your 100 to 1 ratio. Remember I am speaking from total ignorance of the music world!!!

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Keep Your Day Job Kid!!!
From: MK
Date: 20 May 00 - 02:49 PM

Well Rick, Kendall, Art and a few others would probably have some good insights into your questions as well Peter.

But I think, if you are good, a nice person, a fairly quick study at learning songs and arrangements, and of course versatile in different musical styles -- the better the chance that you will work regularly....mind you, you may have to be prepared to do a lot of road work, to eek out a sustainable existence...but I can only comment on this from my experiences of being part of bands, not as a solo performer. I would think it would be more challenging to work regularly and earn a decent living as a solo performer..and here again Rick, and others may have more insights.

I never worked as a solo act. I was always in bands. This may ruffle a few purist feathers, but I had an edge that kept me working constantly, and that was that as a keyboard player, I could also play left hand bass, on a synth, completely independent of anything my right hand was doing.

For a lot of the time I gigged, clubs were cutting back on budgets, and band sizes were shrinking because of it, and band leaders seeking to economize were looking for ways to keep their full band sound. Yes, I put a few bass players out of work (which of course was not my intention) but when I would audition for gigs, this would be the major reason why I would get hired, but it was the band leaders who decided that they didn't need the bass player beacause of me, if they had a keyboard player doing double duty on bass and keys, and pay him a little more than what 1 person would normally get but less than the cost of two salaries. It also made me the anchor in these bands, and responsible for a lot of their overall sound.

In later years when the budgets were even worse, and the ensuing desensitization of audiences ears (from MTV and music videos, with everything expected to sound to technically perfect)...I shrunk down to a duo, with the sound of a good 7 or 8 piece band, with "backup singers".

This was achieved by pre-recording all parts I couldn't play live and what couldn't be sung live as in harmonies, to DAT (intially recorded on a multi-track recorder) so that I was able to use both hands to play piano/keys for comping, as well as for synth solos and pitch bending, and my vocalist would pre-record the harmonies, but would sing the lead part live....so we weren't doing a "milli vanilli". Club owners loved it...and we worked all the time. All the music would be mixed on the left channel of the DAT and all the vocal harmonies would be on the right channel of the DAT. Then it was just a matter of running each of these lines into the board, and blending their respective volumes with what was being performed live. I use love watching audiences trying to figure out where the "backup singers" were on stage. *BG* (I also kept a drum machine with a zillion pre programmed rhythms, and a synth with a split keyboard (bass on one half; piano on the other) for fulfilling requests on the fly.)

Subject: RE: Keep Your Day Job Kid!!!
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 20 May 00 - 03:35 PM

I think I can safely say that as a commercial artist I probably would have earned a decent salary and would have eventually opened my own studio and been pretty independent. Chances are I would have married in my 30s, had a couple of kids, and been reasonably happy...barring unforseen tragedies.

As a professional musician working solo, I got to a sort of pinnacle after about 10 years. I was playing the best hotels (they all had "solo" lounges), top resorts in the summer, and although doing about 50% Pop (which I loathed) and 50% commercial folk (Dylan, Taylor, Paxton etc. which I liked well enough) was earning close to 40 grand a year. (The average yearly wage of a Musician's Union member at the time -early to mid 80s, was a little under 6 grand).

The problem for me, was my heart wasn't into it. I got to dislike drinkers way out of proportion, had literally hundreds of brief affairs, and went out of my way to cultivate "outlaws and rebels" as my friends. Simply, I guess I felt terrified of being "mainstream", and everytime I sang "I left My heart in SanFrancisco" for someone,...well there was the proof that I was indeed what I feared becoming.

This wouldn't have been a problem were it not for the fact that in my spare time I listened to nothing but obscure music, but was too chicken to give up most of my livelyhood to PLAY obscure music.

It was no wonder that many of my friends were Call Girls (ya meet a lot in hotels..don't ya Mike?)..I identified with 'em. Actually, the ones who's lives had not taken tragic turns were some of the best psychologists I've ever met. REALLY bright, and VERY interesting.

It took a real lightening bolt to get me to take an entirely different path (at age 40) but am I ever glad I did.

If I had kids, I'd tell them GET A TRADE FIRST! Play the music that gives you pleasure, and maybe someday you'll be able to scratch out a living with it. Oh, and learn your "F" chord properly!

Rick

Subject: RE: Keep Your Day Job Kid!!!
From: JamesJim
Date: 20 May 00 - 04:39 PM

Rick, I was fortunate enough to have a "day job" all of my life, until I retired just about a year ago. None-the-less, I have constantly "looked over the fence," always thinking how much fun some of my friends were having as professional musicians/singers. They've scratched out a living, but they have led extremely interesting lives. I somehow admire their cavalier attitude. It no doubt has allowed them to experience life and learn important lessons about themselves. Some of them may be thinking they wished they had taken my route (I ended up in senior management of a good size company). It's funny, but we've never talked about it. I know they view me as very successful, but you know what? -- I think they are equally as successful. I think they have had more fun than me.

My life hasn't been exactly boring, but I can't count any call girls among my friends or even acquaintances (at least I don't think so). It doesn't sound like something most would want to do, but as you say, although their lives are often tragic, they are very intelligent and interesting people. There are many among us that fit that description. Playing music has definitely taught me not to judge a person by what they do to make a living, or how they look. Some of my best friends wouldn't be welcomed in board rooms. There are so many truly interesting people in this world and we can learn so much from them. I think my experience with music helped me in my chosen career.

I'm reminded of the guy who was watching the blacksmith shape horse shoes. Without hesitating, the guy walked over and picked one up, then quickly dropped it. The blacksmith said, "burned you, didn't it?" The guy said, "nope - it just don't take me long to look at stuff." It would be nice if we could all learn that quickly. The path we choose in life is influenced by so many things. I'd be surprised if you don't think your life experiences have taken you to where you are today. From what I can see, that's a pretty good place. And, you've had great experiences along the way. How fortunate!

Jim

Subject: RE: Keep Your Day Job Kid!!!
From: GUEST,Nancy King
Date: 20 May 00 - 04:39 PM

One of my sons, Dan Schatz, has been interested in folk music from early childhood and has been writing songs since he was a sophomore in high school. He insisted at a rather early age that he was going to be a famous folksinger when he grew up, and was convinced he could make a serious go of it. We didn't want to discourage him completely--he was showing considerable talent, after all--but neither did we want to support him forever. He needed a reality check. We pointed out that virtually all of the folk musicians we--and he--knew (and there are a lot of them)who made their living by music had started out by doing the music as a sideline while they actually supported themselves doing something else. Only after they had made a success of music as amateurs did they take the plunge and quit their day jobs. We insisted he be able to draw a regular paycheck, but also encouraged him by helping him buy instruments, etc. He made several career-goal changes in his college years, but now after 4 years of graduate school and two years out in the Big World, he is in fact supporting himself with a real job (which he likes well enough and is very good at) and also doing music whenever he can--often for money. His instrumental ability has steadily improved, and many of the songs he has written are very good. Who knows? Maybe someday he'll chuck the real world and do music full time. But now he knows you can't just declare yourself a famous folksinger. As for me, it is one of the great joys of my life that my kids (both of them) have grown up to like the same kind of music I do! --Nancy

Subject: RE: Keep Your Day Job Kid!!!
From: Peter T.
Date: 20 May 00 - 05:18 PM

Thanks to all for these stories -- I'll bet they would help some young people thinking about this if they heard them.

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Keep Your Day Job Kid!!!
From: JenEllen
Date: 20 May 00 - 10:23 PM

Rick...I've got everything but the 'F'...working on it. :)

After reading all of these posts, I feel like I have the best of both worlds. I actually kinda like my day job! If I'm having a stressful day, there is always the opportunity to take someone's dog for a walk and do a little centering. I happen to love the science, and am lucky enough to be damn good at it too.

I made my living and tuitions with music/painting/photography while I was still in school. I was tempted at times to chuck it all and hit the road, but I'm glad now that I didn't. I ended up with equally satisfying work and un-work.

Singing at the clinic drives my co-workers to the brink of homocide every once in a while, but surgery suites have GREAT acoustics, I can't help myself. And I have expanded their horizons a bit as well. (The previous selections 'for your listening pleasure' in surgery were LynardSkynard's greatest hits, and the Miami Vice soundtrack..)

If I had a 'Way-Back' machine, I don't think I'd change any of it. But, once again, I love my work. For advice's sake, I wouldn't push my kids into a trade just for the sake of a paycheck. The chances of burn-out are just too great, and there is no reason to plug away at something that doesn't make you happy.

~Elle

Subject: RE: Keep Your Day Job Kid!!!
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 20 May 00 - 11:02 PM

Whoops, should have added: I think I would have enjoyed the balance of having teaching as my day (two days a week) job and playing folk music (in folk venues) as my night job, which is what I've been doing for the last 13 years.

Ya don't meet many hookers in coffee houses!

Rick

Subject: RE: Keep Your Day Job Kid!!!
From: DebC
Date: 21 May 00 - 10:24 AM

This is a great thread.

All my life I have wanted to sing. From the time I was a little kid. Even though I got the piano lessons, a guitar for my 8th birthday, the support for my singing was never really there from my parents.

I floundered through part-time singing for 20 years, singing in bands here and there, but never really having the confidence to really go out there and try it.

I was a junior high school mathematics teacher for 11 years. I loved the kids, had excellent insurance bennies, good slary, worked 11 hour days, 7 days a week. It amazed me how much of myself I gave for the good of the kids, without realising that I was slowly killing myself. As the years went on, I was growing increasingly more restless, but was really not sure as to why.

Beginning in the summer of 1995, I began traveling to the UK. I found folk clubs everywhere wher I could sing in a floor spot. When I got Edinburgh, people in the pubs would spontaneously break into song and I would usually join in. I seemed to be singing more when I went to the UK (and always being asked to sing) while I was there.

In 1997, I took a leave from my teaching job and went to Edinburgh. I was very fortunate to have friends like Cathal McConnell help me find a place to stay, and work. I ran the session in Sandy Bell's on Monday nights from July through November 1997 and received a lot of encouragement from other musicians.

In 1998, I decided to leave teaching for good. I moved to the Northeastern US and I am now a full-time musician. It is difficult and it takes a lot of hard work to do the business side of things, but I am learning and persevering.

I am happier than I ever have been before and even though I do not regret my days as a public school teacher, I now know that I am a singer, first and foremost. Money does not matter, as long as I have enough to keep food, clothes and a roof within my grasp.

I must say, also, that without the love and support of my partner, I would not be able to have accomplished what I have accomplished in just three years.

I tried to keep this short, and this is by no means the whole story.

Debra Cowan Taking a vow of poverty to spread the gospel of traditional music

Subject: RE: Keep Your Day Job Kid!!!
From: Mooh
Date: 21 May 00 - 10:35 AM

Deb, Thanks, I'm glad I'm not alone! Mooh.

Subject: RE: Keep Your Day Job Kid!!!
From: Kelida
Date: 21 May 00 - 10:45 AM

Geez. I guess it's a good thing that I'm an artist with only an interest in being an amateur musician. Those are some bleak figures, my friends. Seriously, though, I'm sort of in the same predicament with my art.

Rick, I definitely understand how you must have felt singing pop music. My dream is to be able to create the kind of art that I feel like I was born to create--and make a living at it. Unfortunately, the art business is a lot like the music (and acting) business. Very high professional mortality rate. You have to be very business-oriented and/or very lucky. Either that, or you can just be stubborn enough to NEVER, EVER quit. And so I'm going to go to college to major in visual communications--probably web design or graphic art or illustration.

I guess sometimes you have to give an audience what they want. I don't consider that selling out, though. It's a means to an end. I hope that someday I will be comfortable enough to be able to do only what I want. . . Until then, it's whatever can help me reach that point. . .

Peace--Keli

Subject: RE: Keep Your Day Job Kid!!!
From: JulieF
Date: 21 May 00 - 11:52 AM

My daughter has decided that she doesn't want to perform for a living but wants to work on the technical side. In someways I'm quite sad because I know if she could gain confidence and practice hard she would be good but in other ways I'm pleased because she should find life easier. She may change her mind, although she rarely does even at the grand old age of 15. Still she will always have her music as a passion and has already met people and is doing things that she would have never done without it.

Julie

Subject: RE: Keep Your Day Job Kid!!!
From: Alice
Date: 21 May 00 - 11:57 AM

Well, Rick, I chose the path of a degree in art, as well as staying in Montana. I have almost no retirement money and have spent alot of years living on the edge of homelessness or bankruptcy. I had one job as a designer and art director that I stuck with for 8 years, which allowed me to start buying a house instead of renting, but the owner of the company was a rage maniac, and the turnover was high. Most people can't work under an abusive boss for their whole career. I couldn't. I went back to freelancing to be home while my son grows up. It's been tough, but the internet has helped in some regards. I don't want to uproot our family from where we have friends and a safe, peaceful environment to live, so I will stay in Montana. If I had gone to work for a big ad agency in a city, the money would be better. As it is now, I am trying to move from the souvenir gift industry that I have designed for into publishing and advertising art. The internet is changing everything. Now that business is global, many people think, why pay US wages/prices when we can get illustration for pennies from a third world country? Copyright infringement is rampant, too, which also makes it hard on artist's careers. I'm 48 now, and I didn't seriously start singing until I was 44. I wish I had studied voice in my 20's. I would have had the time to do more with it. Anyway, we can't turn the clock back. Las Vegas used to be a city with lots of gigs for musicians. Now, everything is done with soundtracks and live music is a thing of the past. Free clip art and cheap stock art is threatening to eliminate professional illustrators like me. There is a new effort among illustrators and the graphic artists guild to address the problem of artists having their work under contract for years to stock houses who then pay them the unlivable royaties of about $30 a month. A forum for illustrators has replaced alot of my Mudcat time. We are communicating with each other now about our industry in order to keep our livelihood "alive".

Alice

Subject: RE: Keep Your Day Job Kid!!!
From: kendall
Date: 21 May 00 - 12:28 PM

The only way to come out of folk music with a million dollars, is to go into it with two million dollars. Get a trade first. Something that not every one can do..Mortician comes to mind...then, indulge yourself in music. If you make it..great. If not, you have something to fall back on. My main career was as a conservation officer. I'm now retired, and I can work when I want, IF I want. I can do a tour of folk clubs in Scotland, and make enough to pay my way, and I dont have to worry about it. This late in life, there is not much left for me but to enjoy it!!

Subject: RE: Keep Your Day Job Kid!!!
From: mactheturk
Date: 21 May 00 - 01:11 PM

Five years ago, my son was in a high school talent show, he was a senior at the time and he and two of his buddies played three songs, two that they wrote and one by Van Morrison. It was a acoustic set and they sounded great.

Towards the end of the show, they announced that my son was going to perform an unscheduled solo.

He went to center stage(there was about 300 in the audience), quickly retuned his guitar to an open setting,adjusted the mike and said,"This is a song I wrote for my Grandmother(my mom) who just passed away.

A chill ran up my spine, the song(which I had never heard, was great and of course I cried.

Now, five years later, he has graduated from college and he a great job that he likes very much. He has a band,however, acoustic, all original songs that he has written and they play a couple times per month.

He has asked my advice on the "keep your day job" topic and I have tried to do my best in that regard,though it appears that his music will remain a hobby but also his passion.

I have also told him that his performance at his senior talent show was the proudest day of my life, and it still is.

Mac

Subject: RE: Keep Your Day Job Kid!!!
From: Peter T.
Date: 21 May 00 - 01:17 PM

Ain't this place great -- to coin a phrase.
yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Keep Your Day Job Kid!!!
From: bbelle
Date: 21 May 00 - 03:04 PM

The money, or lack thereof, was what turned me towards a "day" job. Being a solo folk act was what I loved and I had quite a following. But, by 1973, gigging coffeehouses was paying bupkus and the clubs were wanting "lounge" acts. I switched to singing with a small 3-4 piece combo ... and I enjoyed it ... I love singing old standards and show tunes ... but I wasn't in control and often sang tunes that I HATED. I just cannot sing tunes that I HATE, night after night. And they always wanted me to sing the Scott McKenzie tune "When You're Going to San Francisco, be sure to wear some flowers in your hair." They thought it "fit" me because I was still considered a folksinger and I still looked like one. So .. the esoterics of the talent got in the way of the business.

Like Rick ... I had the opportunity to go commercial and could have made big, big bucks and would have had a "recognizable" name. I just couldn't do it. I didn't want to sing what I didn't want to sing. I wasn't living at home, then, but my father was so upset, practically inconsolable. He still talks about it, on occasion.

Most people see the glamor of being a professional entertainer, but it can be a very hard life. Just the transiency of it all makes it difficult. I was lucky because I tended to stay in gigs for a long time, because of my following.

Then, what happens, the day job starts taking more and more of your time, and there's no time to look for music jobs.

And, Rick ... I never met any call girls on my gigs, but I did weary of having my dates pick me up at 2 AM. When I moved to Washington, D.C., I even had a groupie guy show up on my doorstep. Luckily, I knew and had dated him, but ...

The oddest experience was when a club owner asked me to stay and perform for a private party (mind you, I was 19 y/o) ... a carnival owner was having a birthday party for his wife. The carnival owner was 80 and his young wife was about 20, which was okay, lest anyone jump on me for age discrimination. Also, in attendance, were several very tall, big women, wearing sleazy cocktail dresses and with sprayed, teased, bouffanted hair. Let me reinterate ... I was 19. At one point, during the party, all the women got up, and as I turned my head to see where they were going, they all went into the men's room. I thought it was odd and mentioned it to my father the next day. He looked at me rather oddly and sent for my mother too tell me about transvestites. Twas a rude awakening, too be sure.

Sometimes I wish I had stayed in ... Oft times I wish I had stayed in ... but am comfortable with the fact that all things happen for a reason ...

Jenny

Subject: RE: Keep Your Day Job Kid!!!
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 21 May 00 - 03:37 PM

Kelida, good luck in your journey. When I was playing night clubs I had a colossal repertoire based on handling requests for so long. I always tried to give the audience "what they wanted"....until it hit me that what they REALLY wanted was an entertainer who liked the same music they did. 'Fraid that wasn't true with me. My suggestion to anybody today is "find YOUR audience, and give them what they want". Man, you'll be so much happier.

Alice, I can relate to the uncertanty. I've always HATED taking orders from bullies, and sadly many club owners, managers and Maitre d's seem to have a lot of bully in them. I guess it goes with the territory, what with constant hiring and firing of staff, dealing with drunks and the mob, and hitting on female staff constantly, knowing their success rate will be high with those who don't want to lose their jobs.

When I got out of it to persue folk gigs exclusively, I watched my income plummet and even today with a reasonable profile and a number of albums, I earn about as much as a security guard. Like you I'm VERY thankful for the internet, cause it's allowed me to avoid agents and managers....and that ain't bad!

Jenny, I really knew that the mob liked musicians, that night in Montreal, when they invited myself and my fiddler out for dinner AFTER the club closed (about 2am). We walked down the street and one of them banged on the door of a closed steak house. The owner got out of bed, opened the door and fixed us some filets. Afterwards our "friends" asked us to play a few songs. We Did!

Rick

Subject: RE: Keep Your Day Job Kid!!!
From: bbelle
Date: 21 May 00 - 03:50 PM

Actually, my brush with the mob occurred when I had the chance to go "commercial." It was the opportunity of a lifetime ... but I kept thinking about what if I wanted "out." Would I be "allowed" to just walk away? I've never regretted that decision. I think it would have been too confining for me... Jenny

Subject: RE: Keep Your Day Job Kid!!!
From: Whistle Stop
Date: 22 May 00 - 10:08 AM

My advice to my kids (I have three, aged seven to seventeen) is to pursue what they love and are interested in, but not to limit themselves to just one love or interest. I am passionate about music, but if that's all that interests me, my life will not be as rich and meaningful as it could be. Besides, I think that people who have wide-ranging interests and activities make better musicians as well.

I'm a full-time government official (in environmental protection), and a part-time musician, and I enjoy both. I have the freedom to adjust the ratio of one to the other as my needs and circumstances dictate. That's not a bad situation, all in all.

I have spent brief periods of my life as a full-time musician, and while I loved the music, the business is something to be tolerated at best. If you want to go into music, do so; if you want to go into the music business, go ahead. But recognize that they are two different things; figure out which one is the one you really want, and focus on that. The music business, in my experience, is largely about low pay, late hours, smoky bars, sleazy bar owners, drunken patrons, and always searching for the optimal balance between art and commerce. I believe that it is possible to be a full-time musician without being a full-time music professional.

I also think people need to recognize that there's no safety in playing it safe. Today's hot career field is tomorrow's wasteland, so you may as well do something you love, because it's tough to predict what will ultimately prove to be a real money-making enterprise. I know a lot of people who have gone into a profession that they didn't really care much about, just because it was deemed the "smart choice" at the time they were making their decision. It rarely works out the way they want it to. In the final analysis, I think people should encourage their kids to do whatever they're interested in (as long as it's healthy and not destructive), and as many things as they're interested in. If they get this kind of unconditional love and encouragement, they'll find a niche for everything in its own good time. This is more than building a career; it's building a life, which is really what you want, right?

Subject: RE: Keep Your Day Job Kid!!!
From: Alice
Date: 22 May 00 - 10:50 AM

Amen, Whistle Stop. Life is so much richer when one has multiple interests, develops all talents, and stays open and curious about learning. Children are expected at younger and younger ages to channel into a career/trade/higher education choice. I am looking at the interests of my son, who is 12. Science, drawing, music, computers, he's a good writer, and even though he says he hates it, he's gets high grades in math. Who knows what the future holds as far as jobs for our kids? The world is changing at a faster and faster pace. If each child can be helped to develop whatever talents and skills they were born to have, that's the best we can do. Preparation will meet opportunity. Having the wisdom to make constructive choices with the talent and skills is the added ingredient for satisfying careers.

My best teacher and mentor in art school, Robert DeWeese, (of Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance fame) was an artist, college professor, and musician. Many students didn't know he played the flute and piccolo, but he would get together with friends and family to make music. He had been in a marching band in the army.

Alice

Subject: RE: Keep Your Day Job Kid!!!
From: mactheturk
Date: 22 May 00 - 06:55 PM

This IS a great place to be. Wish this forum was available when I was a kid....

You bet, Mac

Subject: RE: Keep Your Day Job Kid!!!
From: The Shambles
Date: 23 May 00 - 06:56 PM

Refresh.

Far too good to fall off the bottom yet.