Lyr/Chords Req: The Rosscrea Cows

Subject: The Rosscrea Cows
From: mark from caloola
Date: 10 Jul 00 - 01:58 AM

Hi All,

Does anyone have the words and tune for the lyrics and original tune for the Irish (County Clare) song "The Rosscrea Cows".

As readers of other threads will remember I am interested in the Celtic roots of Australian folksongs.

Thérèse Radic notes that the tune for Basil Cosgrove's song The Rabbit-Trapper is also the tune for the Banjo Paterson's "Travelling Down the Castlreagh" now. . .

"The Rosscrea Cows" is the original tune.

Thanks to Bob for getting me started on this one.

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: The Rosscrea Cows
From: Wolfgang
Date: 10 Jul 00 - 05:14 AM

Marc,
we had the lyrics in this old thread.

I know the tune from the singing of Micko Russel.

Wolfgang

Subject: ADD: The Rosscrea Cows - Calf Meal in Roscrea ^^
From: Wolfgang
Date: 10 Jul 00 - 05:24 AM

On second thought, I think I'd better repost it in a format ready for harvesting for the DT database. It might have been overlooked the first time it was posted in 1997. And please credit Martin Ryan for the posting!

Wolfgang

CALF MEAL IN ROSCREA
(AKA: The Roscrea cows)

I stood on a bridge of a cold frosty morning
My mind being at ease and my thoughts far away
When a bunch of oul' cows down from Scariff came marching
They were all off to make calf meal above in Roscrea

They were led by a Kerry whose bones were projecting
Her eyes they were dim, ah, she'd seen better days
'Twas little she thought when she was calved in Lough Mountain
She'd be off to make calf meal above in Roscrea

When I was a yearling on the green hills of Flagmount
Everywhere that I went, 'twas I held the sway
But now I am old and I'm looked on with scorn
And tomorrow I'll make calf meal above in Roscrea

'Tis well I remember the Bodyke evictions
When we kicked the ould sheriff right out of the way
The peelers all ran when we charged them at Feakle
And tomorrow we'll charge them again in Roscrea.

The times they are changed, now, and so is the people
All the drovers are lying dead under the clay
Now there's trains and there's lorries pulling out from the station
They're all off to make calf meal above in Roscrea

They were driven to the station, though sad and dejected
They were told to move on and to make no delay
When up spoke this ould Kerry saying "Don't be downhearted
But cock up your tails and three pats for Roscrea!"

"Well you're telling the truth" says an ould cow from Galway
If you live long enough, you'll find it wont pay
Let's all join the union, stand shoulder to shoulder
And refuse to make calf meal above in Roscrea!
^^

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: The Rosscrea Cows
From: mark from caloola
Date: 10 Jul 00 - 06:11 PM

Thanks Wolfgang and thanks to Martin Ryan.

Any ideas on where the original tune would be located?

In my experience there are minor variations between "Australian" tunes and the source tunes they are based on.

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: The Rosscrea Cows
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 10 Jul 00 - 11:48 PM

G'day Mark,

Just dotting the 'i's and crossing the 't's ... Thérèse Radic said that Basil's tune was found for Paterson's Travelling Down the Castlereagh, so it is not the one well known today.

If and when you get the tune to The Rosscrea Cows, the tune you need to compare with is the first MIDIText that I posted,(in error,due to terse 8 character DOS titles) for The Rabbiter's Song - the one that should have, in its header, Rabbit-O.

Just trying to limit the spread of my confusion!

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: The Rosscrea Cows
From: GUEST,Mark Campbell
Date: 04 Jun 02 - 06:43 PM

Better late than never.

Thanks Bob.

Still looking, however.

The ideal for Tursacan would be to find that there were some Gaelic lyrics to the tune as it existed in Ireland.

The Tursacan formula is Gaelic "original" Australian English variant. A good example being Talhad Chriosta in Scots Gaelic (9.8) and The Wee One in Australian English (4.4). A perfect combination.

Fits the bill for many a gig and festival.

In theory anyway.

Heres to nepatism and insider trading.

Grin.

Any ideas?

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: The Rosscrea Cows
From: Percustard
Date: 16 Jun 02 - 10:33 PM

Songs of Australian Working Life Radic Thérèse Greenhouse Elwood, Vic 1989 207 Playwright and music historian Thérèse Radic presents words and music for more than 100 songs, together with details of melodies and chords. Radic provides details of the origins of both words and music for each song, who first collected them and where they were published. These are mainly songs with clear Anglo-Saxon and Celtic influence, but also featured are some songs by Aborigines and by recent immigrants. The selection combines 'traditional' and political songs from 1788 to the present. An index of first lines is provided. An overlapping collection, with less historical information, is Warren Fahey's Eureka: The songs that made Australia (Omnibus, Sydney, 1984, 236p).

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: The Rosscrea Cows
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 16 Jun 02 - 11:44 PM

G'day Percustard,

I think that may be the right Thérèse Radic book ... There is an earlier one with a title that sounds like it was cobbled up by the sales department ... Australia's Favourite Songs ... or something of that ilk.

I'll check when I get home (and back from my Monday Night Music Workshop). Warren's book is drastically short of provenance notes ... and credits to the earlier collectors who steered him to many of those from whom he simply re-collected the same songs. (See the recent thread on an Australian song Man of the Earth.)

There are a number of more comprehensive books on Australian folk song available - the John Meredith Folk Songs of Australia volumes; a lot of specific monographs by Hugh Anderson (and current work from Carrawobbity/Pioneer Performers Series) still available for the Wongawilli web site; heaps of great work by Ron Edwards, up in Kuranda, Far North Queensland ... &c. (And a nice little anthology of songs and verse from Singabout magazine, 1956 - 1967 from the Bush Music Club ... by some bloke called Bob Bolton ...)

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: The Rosscrea Cows
From: Percustard
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 09:28 PM

Thanks Bob.

I'd love to sit down and go through all the comprehensive books listed above. But, the books are a means to an end at the moment.

Therese Radic's book, and all the other books listed, will eventually end up in my library, but at present I'd really like to find the tune to Rosscrea Cows and some info about the song (maybe leading to an original gaelic tune) and then compare contrast the links to Basil Cosgroves "The Rabbiter Trapper's Song" http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=23038#253206

In the meantime, as I understand it, the "modern" tune to "Travelling Down the Castlereigh" is not the tune for Cosgroves "Rabbit Trapper"? Is this correct?

I'll go have a look for info on "Travelling Down the Castlereigh and get back.

Seeya

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: The Rosscrea Cows
From: Percustard
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 10:11 PM

I decided to create a new thread for Travelling Down the Castlereigh to avoid my confused brain exploding with tune confusion:

http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=48672&messages=4

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: The Rosscrea Cows
From: Percustard
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 10:05 PM

Not quite finished.

From

http://www.artistdirect.com/store/artist/album/0,,1599813,00.html

BARRY GLEESON: Albums: PATH ACROSS THE OCEAN Preview Barry Gleeson Path Across the Ocean 2002 Terra Nova Uk

CD $9.98 $8.99 < Path Across the Ocean 2 Mullingar Recuit 3 Roy Roger Um 4 Sleeveless Charms 5 What Will We Do When We Have No Money? 6 This Is Macaronic 7 Irish Jubilee 8 Sweet Daffodil Mulligan 9 Sheila Nee Iyer (Síle Ní Ghaidhre) 10 False, Flase Fly 11 Calf Meal in Roscrea 12 Slip Jigs and Reels 13 Shriekin' Artaner 14 Cupid's Visitation to Mick Dwyer ...........

It appears the song is out there.

Maybe I will have to get a CD imported into Australia (very expensive option).

Sure no one has the tune in MIDI or in notation able to be posted here on Mudcat?

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: The Rosscrea Cows
From: Percustard
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 10:12 PM

There is another thread on this song:

http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=2148&messages=30

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: The Rosscrea Cows
From: Percustard
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 10:15 PM

Here's a lead!

http://alan-ng.net/irish/tunography/album.asp?code=RF

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: The Rosscrea Cows
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 10:40 AM

The set repeated by Wolfgang above was taken from Barry Gleeson's album. I can get a copy of the CD to you (cost + postage) if you like. Drop me a PM.

Regards

p.s. The tune won't come cleanly into my head at the moment - but instinctively it sounds too waltz-like to be likely to have "Gaelic" antecedents, if by that you mean something earlier than 19th C. and with words in Irish Gaelic. Hang on - its also used for e.g. "Lads from the COunty Mayo", at least.

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: The Rosscrea Cows
From: Wolfgang
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 10:56 AM

The tune can be heard here (track 15)

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: The Rosscrea Cows
From: Percustard
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 08:31 PM

Bloody brilliant Wolfgang.

Thanks heaps.

And thanks Martin your offer is much appreciated. Can you expand upon the "Lads from County Mayo" link (gaelic tune?)?

Anyway, thanks again.

Mark

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: The Rosscrea Cows
From: Percustard
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 09:37 PM

The reason I posted the initial request for the Roscrea Cows was to get the early form of a tune/song that has "sprouted" here in Australia into a number of other tunes and songs.

The idea being to put them together into a kind of postmodern history in song.

The songs are:

Roscrea Cows (Ireland), Basil Cosgrove's Rabbit Trapper (NSW Australia) Dave Dehugards version of Basils tune (NSW) and Travelling down the Castlereigh (using the best known tune).

I have just put em together in one file.

All four tunes.

And it sounds good!

Thanks to all.

And...

To further spice up the mix...

Does anyone know of any gaelic orgins for Roscrea Cows (Calfmeal in Roscrea)?

Thanks

Mark

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: The Rosscrea Cows
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 21 Jun 02 - 09:03 AM

Mark

"Boys from the County Mayo" is a well known song to the same air as "Calf meal in Roscrea". Click here for a set of lyrics.

I know of no words in Gaelic associated with the tune -and would be rather surprised if such exist.

Regards

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: The Rosscrea Cows
From: Percustard
Date: 23 Jun 02 - 07:37 PM

Hi Martin and all,

Do you know if Boys from County Mayo is older than Rosscrea Cows. I would like to use the oldest tune the start the set that I mentioned above. A kind of song genealogy. So, I after the Irish great great grandfather of the Australian cousins "The Rabbit Trapper" and "Travelling Down the Castlereigh".

Any info much appreciated.