Born to Sing

Subject: Born to Sing
From: Bert
Date: 18 Jul 00 - 01:10 PM

Just saw this on abcnews.com.

Subject: RE: Born to Sing
From: Allan C.
Date: 18 Jul 00 - 01:42 PM

Thanks Bert.

Subject: RE: Born to Sing
From: Lena
Date: 18 Jul 00 - 02:31 PM

Yes,thanks. There's a lecture from 1973,published from Washington University Press:"How musical is man?" It's from Jhon Blacking,musician and Anthropologist. He suggests music as a characteristic trait like language-a language more developed then words.Isn't it true?!We transmit much more to each other by associating sonic objects.He goes more in particualr on what man,'the nusic maker',has chosen to call musical in different societies. And,yes,he definitely points out that music is not conceivable without association with people.And also:he calls it humanly organized sound(and soundly organized society...);music is not much in the theory of premeditated sounds.It's in the perception & recognition of certain patterns and the human response to them. You should be able to find this short book in your public library. Thanks again Lena

Subject: RE: Born to Sing
From: Kim C
Date: 18 Jul 00 - 03:03 PM

Music never contributed to the progagation of the species? I beg wholeheartedly to differ! I don't think I have to go into detail here, do I?

Let me tell this story...... many moons ago when I was in college taking advanced jazz theory (no I don't remember any of it), the professor made us listen to Thelonious Monk's "Round Midnight." Well, let me tell you, it made my temperature rise and my heart beat fast. And there weren't any words!

No wonder the French tried to ban jazz in the 20s.

I think genetics play a large part in a lot of things, whether we like to admit it or not.

Subject: RE: Born to Sing
From: Roger in Sheffield
Date: 18 Jul 00 - 03:08 PM

MMMMmmmm.......Auditory Cheesecake !!

Subject: RE: Born to Sing
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 18 Jul 00 - 04:36 PM

Oooooooo, gimme some more cheesecake! Bert, this is fascinating stuff. I forwarded the article to my boss (I'm a music teacher). Dunno if he'll read it, but I found it fascinating!

Subject: RE: Born to Sing
From: Bert
Date: 18 Jul 00 - 06:19 PM

I think Lena is right in her quote... "It's in the perception & recognition of certain patterns and the human response to them"
Human survival is dependent upon pattern recognition and the ability to recognize recurring events. I suspect that music may have originated as a by product of pattern recognition but eventually it would have assumed importance in it's own right as a socializing influence.

Bert.

Subject: RE: Born to Sing
From: GUEST,Banjo Johnny
Date: 19 Jul 00 - 01:25 AM

Before there were Martin guitars, before pipe organs, even before bone flutes, there was song. Music was song. I think the first "instrument" was two hands clapping, as accompaniment.

(Mel Brooks said the first song was, "A lion is eating my foot off, somebody call the cops!")

Music is not the notes on paper, and it is not the sound in the air. Music is what happens inside the head of the listener. == Johnny in Oklahoma City

Subject: RE: Born to Sing
From: Lena
Date: 19 Jul 00 - 04:30 AM

So there's another riddle,how about those patterns we recognize and instinctively respond to?! Is that genetic?! Folk music is so completely different from culture to culture.I remember listening for the first time to and Indigenous Australian piece and thinling"This people got to be kidding!!!Where's the music?!Where's the rithm?!"Yet other people feel it,love it,and certainly find it to be more musical than other things I might respond to. But some responses are inside us,and they don't come from any experience. I've never heard any old folk song from where I come from,Yet some things I hear sometimes make me feel sort of at home.They sound old and familiar to me. Current theories say that recent experiences(folk music is a recent recent experience.Only a couple o thousand years)don't get to intrude in hour genetic code.So,where does our folk music lay?! Is "in our soul" a scientifical enough explanation?!

Subject: RE: Born to Sing
From: GUEST,KingBrilliant
Date: 19 Jul 00 - 08:37 AM

Bert - I thought it was a pattern recognition thing too. It was the bit about taking away the music & everything else being unchanged which made me think it. I think that in the same way that all the pictures we are surrounded by give us a basis & framework for recognising visual pattern in the real world (I'm not saying that's all they're for mind you) - I think that music gives us a framework for recognising aural patterns (pitches & rhythms)in the real world. Maybe like a mental language in which to think in sounds - which would help in recognition & remembering sounds, all of which must have a survival advantage. Again I don't think that is all its for though!

Kris

Subject: RE: Born to Sing
From: Kim C
Date: 19 Jul 00 - 01:05 PM

I dunno..... I saw an African drum band once and it was so intense I almost had to leave the room. There's something about the primitiveness of drums, I guess.... pretty much every culture has some type of drum. Aw hell, I don't know what I'm trying to say!

Subject: RE: Born to Sing
From: Bert
Date: 19 Jul 00 - 01:06 PM

Lena, you ask "So,where does our folk music lay?" obviously you are right, it is too recent to be wholly genetic. But 'following tradition' does have a genetic advantage. It allows us to learn from the past and to interact with one another. Tradition is the basis of society and those who follow it are allowed to live in the community and therefor have a better chance of survival.

Kris, no of course, that isn't 'all' that it is. I think that was just the start. Music affects us profoundly on a very emotional level. I assume this comes partly from inborn recognition, and is partly learned from our individual cultural background.

Bert.

Subject: RE: Born to Sing
From: Susie
Date: 19 Jul 00 - 02:06 PM

What a fascinating thread. I love to sing (genetics, culture or family lifestyle - I wouldn't like to have to split that particular hair!) I've marvelled at so many singers over the years that the title of this thread was compelling. Personally, I can't seem to hold a tune, but that's by-the-by . . . the love of singing does not necessarily go with the ability to do so. It seems to me (not researched - just my view) that there are two major requirements - a memory which can hold a tune and vocal chords which can reproduce it as necessary. Needless to say, I envy this ability. "Born" singers seem to be able to sing any song without effort (note the word "seem"), leaving me amazed at how they do it.

My first experience in watching a "born to sing" person was years ago - a little girl, only four years old, who had a voice like an angel and never missed a note. She never had to listen to a tune more than once - yes, tunes are simple enough when you are only four but there were plenty of others for whom these simple tunes were forgotten in seconds. I was mesmerised.

"Born to sing" - it is a gift and thanks-be for those that have it. I'm just so glad its a gift that can be shared with other people.

Subject: RE: Born to Sing
From: Jim the Bart
Date: 19 Jul 00 - 02:16 PM

I'd be willing to wager that good old professor Pinker can't carry a tune in a bushel basket and didn't get any until he was approaching thirty. Yeah, I know. That's just mean. . .

Subject: RE: Born to Sing
From: Marymac90
Date: 19 Jul 00 - 02:32 PM

I'd like to echo Susie. The ability to make music seems so magical to me, something that I got shortchanged on when the creator was handing out gifts. Music seems like a language that sounds so beautiful when others give it voice. I love and appreciate hearing what they can do. When it comes to reproducing those sounds, what I hear inside my head, and what comes out of my throat seem to have little or no relation to each other.

Marymac

Subject: RE: Born to Sing
From: Bert
Date: 19 Jul 00 - 02:37 PM

Marymac, call me now at 610 739 9050