Help: Identify this tune

Subject: Help: Identify this tune
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 20 Jul 00 - 06:56 PM

This one came to me from Peter Nillson via the help forum. I have placed Peter's midi of the tune and a gif at http://members.tripod.co.uk/jonbanjo/tunesearch.htm. Can anybody help identify it. I have included Peter's comments below.

Jon

--------------------------------------------------- Now, the tune is decidedly Occidental, but absolutely not Scandinavian and hardly Anglo-American, North or East European or Latin American, so it should originate in the Mediterranean area, and to me it sounds very Italian. What I want to know is above all its title, for further research, but information on its origin, lyrics or anything at all is more than welcome.

Subject: RE: Help: Identify this tune
From: Mbo
Date: 20 Jul 00 - 07:05 PM

I recognize it all right, Jon. Now I've gotta think where I've heard it. I'm sure it's Classical music.

--Mbo

Subject: RE: Help: Identify this tune
From: Mbo
Date: 20 Jul 00 - 07:10 PM

Hmmm...I'm almost sure it's Mozart.

--Mbo

Subject: RE: Help: Identify this tune
From: Sorcha
Date: 20 Jul 00 - 07:26 PM

I think Mbo is right, and I think one reason it is so familiar is because it is a Standard on PlayerPianos, Amusement parks, Carosels, etc........thinking.

Subject: RE: Help: Identify this tune
From: M. Ted (inactive)
Date: 20 Jul 00 - 08:01 PM

The tune has got me stumped--but I would like to know how Peter generated the notation graphic--

Subject: RE: Help: Identify this tune
From: Noreen
Date: 21 Jul 00 - 01:49 PM

Sorry, but I am certain I have never heard it- which makes me think it is not Mozart. It doesn't strike me as being a classical piece either, for several reasons.

Where did you come across it, Peter? Since it seems to be familiar to US 'catters, that might lead you somewhere...

Hope you find it.

Noreen

Subject: RE: Help: Identify this tune
From: Falstaff
Date: 21 Jul 00 - 09:02 PM

Further information: Notation graphics were created in Finale and then converted to tiff in that program; then they were exported to Paintshop Pro for a slight touch up (Finale is a very buggy software) and converted to gif. The reason the song reminds one of amusement parks and the like may be that it's been made to sound that way? I've heard it played differently, on the mandolin or bouzouki, though I've forgotten where. I think that a version of it appeared in some Kirk Douglas movie the name of which I don't remember; he played a mafioso and there was some kind of fiest in Sicily where it was played on the accordion. That doesn't prove that the tune is Italian though. It's a nice thing that any subject seems to get some response immediately on these pages. Beautiful. Peter

Subject: RE: Help: Identify this tune
From: Rosebrook
Date: 21 Jul 00 - 09:15 PM

It doesn't sound classical to me, either. Perhaps someone could play or sing it on a HearMe "session" - maybe hearing the tune will evoke a response from someone who can't necessarily read the music on the link, but could identify the piece.

Rose

Subject: RE: Help: Identify this tune
From: alison
Date: 21 Jul 00 - 10:33 PM

I think it's very familiar.. it's not the "theme" tune... but isn't it part of the "tritsch tratsch polka", (ie the B part of the tune)??? just a thought

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: Help: Identify this tune
From: Mbo
Date: 21 Jul 00 - 10:42 PM

No, that that one...it might be part of a Strauss waltz...but I still can't seem to shake the feeling of the classical period...

--Matt

Subject: RE: Help: Identify this tune
From: jofield
Date: 21 Jul 00 - 11:47 PM

2¢: Well, it certainly isn't Mozart. Sounds like a rather undistinguished German or Polish tune to me.

James.

Subject: RE: Help: Identify this tune
From: Helen
Date: 22 Jul 00 - 04:11 AM

I copied the midi file, loaded it into Noteworthy and muted all the staffs wxcept the melody line. It makes it a lot easier to listen and not get distracted by the Calliope accompaniment. It vaguely sounds like a tune I have heard sung in Italian in an old movie - but I can't get any closer than that.

Helen

Subject: RE: Help: Identify this tune
From: gillymor
Date: 22 Jul 00 - 07:46 AM

Sounds like something off a Lawrence Welk rerun.

Subject: RE: Help: Identify this tune
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jul 00 - 09:52 AM

I remember hearing that tune when I was a child, although the caliope effect may be misleading as to where. It is very familiar, and I may never have known the title. Seems like I heard it at carnivals and circuses (the caliope thing again), but it also immediately brought to mind a skating rink (roller skates) from around 1945-55).

That's all I can come up with, but intend to e-mail it to a friend who has a better memory. Does seem to me it was a bit slower when I heard it.

Giac

Subject: RE: Help: Identify this tune
From: Falstaff
Date: 22 Jul 00 - 08:27 PM

No, not Mozart, not Strauss. Could be German, 19th or early 20th century, but no, they didn't make them that way. Funny thing people seem to feel they've heard it sometime somewhere; what's wrong with this tune? Fff

Subject: RE: Help: Identify this tune
From: Mbo
Date: 22 Jul 00 - 08:33 PM

Falstaff, it sounds to me like the timing is screwed up...

--Mbo

Subject: RE: Help: Identify this tune
From: IvanB
Date: 22 Jul 00 - 08:55 PM

Mbo, the timing problem is probably because this is a very good imitation of a calliope - due to the nature of the beast, the steam doesn't get to all the pipes simultaneously, even when the keys are pressed at the same time, hence the parts are always in a curious juxtaposition to one another. There may be some spurious notes in the 'doodly' parts, but when it's pulled into NoteWorthy, all the parts end together.

My suspicion would be either an aria from an italianate opera or an Italian folk song. But I sure have no ID for it.

Subject: RE: Help: Identify this tune
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 22 Jul 00 - 10:25 PM

Sorry, I can't place it either. But I had an odd thought that it might have been a waltz, reformatted in 4/4? I have no good reason for suggesting that, except that when I tried it in my head it sounded like it would work as a waltz, and maybe that's why people keep saying the timing seems off.

Aloha,
Mark (only about 1 cent worth)

Subject: RE: Help: Identify this tune
From: Mbo
Date: 22 Jul 00 - 10:33 PM

Not 1 cent at all, Mark. I was thinking that it is definately a waltz also. It should be in 3/4...

--Mbo

Subject: RE: Help: Identify this tune
From: Falstaff
Date: 23 Jul 00 - 12:13 PM

Maybe the calloipe touch was a mistake - there's this problem with a second rate soundcard: I always feel an ir4resistible urge to do something painful to miditunes (MidiNotate is a nice tool for musical sadists). Still I've got a feeling this song des have some connection with barrel organs. 3/4 makes it even more calloipeish or barrel-organish

Subject: RE: Help: Identify this tune
From: Sorcha
Date: 23 Jul 00 - 01:47 PM

Lovely new word, there, "calloipeish"......and this is driving me N:U:T:S:O!! I listen to it at least once a day, and keep trying..........

Subject: RE: Help: Identify this tune
From: Mbo
Date: 23 Jul 00 - 01:55 PM

I'm getting closer to narrowing it down. I don't care what anyone says, this thing is Mozart or something very close to that. I've heard it before, and I can hear exactly how it is played in my head, complete with orchestra and accompaniament stuff that is missing in the GIF. All I need to do is find the name...

--Matt

Subject: RE: Help: Identify this tune
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 23 Jul 00 - 02:07 PM

I have placed a second copy of the tune without the accopmaniament on the page to see if that helps.

Jom

Subject: RE: Help: Identify this tune
From: GUEST,Mbo_at_ECU
Date: 23 Jul 00 - 07:18 PM

Jon, I'd like a little more info...can you contact the bloke and ask him where he heard it, and where the midi came from?

--Matt

Subject: RE: Help: Identify this tune
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 23 Jul 00 - 07:37 PM

Mbo, although I wasn't given a Mudcat name, I think you will find that "the guy" is Falstaff.

Jon

Subject: RE: Help: Identify this tune
From: GUEST,Falstaff
Date: 24 Jul 00 - 02:24 PM

That's right, Peter and Falstaff is the same guy. Anyway, Mbo, here's the information you asked for: I don't know when I heard this song the first time; it seems to have been around for a long time. It was used as a theme in a TV show more than a decade ago, and the second part of the melody may be from there but I don't know. TV people can't help me since I don't remember the show itself. I am, by now, absolutely sure, though, that it also appeared shortly in a Kirk Douglas movie, K.D. playing a Sicilian immigrant (very convincingly, as I remember)with a brother in the the mafia. There was a scene of a wedding in Sicily with this song played either on the accordion or by an orchestra. The midi version is completely my fault; it's a bit fast, still allegro is the right tempo. Possibly the notation ought to be in eights or alla breve or something. The melody is smoothed down to its basic content, of which I'm fairly sure, having heard it maybe six times in thirty years.To my Northern ears it sounds definitely Southern Europe: it's got that specific Italian quality of sounding "domestic" and yet not (my frame of reference is Swedish so it differs a little from the American experience). I'm afraid that's all I can say, and it ain't much. Peter aka Fff

Subject: RE: Help: Identify this tune
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 24 Jul 00 - 11:42 PM

This is bugging me too. I'm thinking it is from a "lesser known" opera, (because it sounds like opera, but I'm not familiar with it). The last part especially sounds like a rousing ensemble. Earlier this evening I was listening to sound clips of Italian operas linked-to from the Aria Database, but alas, my speakers died. I'll keep this one in mind.

Subject: RE: Help: Identify this tune
From: Elektra
Date: 17 Jul 01 - 02:44 PM

Well, this is a slight tangent, but could the movie have been "The Brotherhood" (1968)?

Perhaps that will jog someone's memory. :)

*Elektra*