old-time picking on resonator banjos

Subject: RE: old-time picking on resonator banjos
From: Downeast Bob
Date: 12 Aug 00 - 10:32 AM

I look at it this way: Southern musicians at one time played only openback banjos with animal skin heads because that's what was available, but as banjo technology progressed, almost anyone who could afford it opted for a brighter sound with more sustain and more volume. For many years, the Gibson resonator banjos were the ultimate in that regard. Not everybody could afford them, of course, but if you were going to play in a band -- even a pre-bluegrass band -- with fiddle, guitar and bass, they were the instrument of choice. The resonator banjo became widely used among tradtional southern musicians before the bluegrass style emerged. The resonator banjo made the bluegrass banjo style possible.

Up until the 1940s, there were almost no northern folk musicians playing the banjo. Pete Seeger was pretty much alone at first and he played the old open-back. During the 50s, his playing attracted a lot of new musicians, mostly college kids, north and south. At the beginning of the 50s, most of them had never even heard of bluegrass and most of them played open back banjo's like Pete's. At that time, old open-back banjos, dug out of someone's attic, could be bought for practically nothing. I remember paying $15 for an S.S. Stewart Thoroughbred model in the mid 50s. When the northern folkies first encountered resonator banjos it was usually when they heard bluegrass bands for the first time. When they started going to fiddlers; conventions like those at Union Grove or Galax they discovered that lots of southerners frailed and clawhammered on resonator banjos as well as on open backs. Of course, some people, particularly in the north, preferred the plunky old-time sound.

Subject: RE: old-time picking on resonator banjos
From: Bud Savoie
Date: 12 Aug 00 - 07:39 AM

Resonator banjos are more available than open-backs because 'Grassers outnumber OT players by an estimated 9 to 1. I suppose that Ralph Stanley's Ma taught him on an old open-back, but that won't do in a BG band. Ralph plays mostly his 3-finger style, and he's not about to lug two banjos to his concerts.

I have seen Mike Seeger in person and on video with an array of banjos, and his preference is definitely with the open-back jobs unless he is playing in some sort of BG style or in a band context. The sound and feel are definitely different.

The only time I have seen Roscoe Holcomb with a resonator banjo is in that shot of him outside his hen house. He is playing an old Kay--with the resonator removed. When I saw him in person, he was playing an open-back that had been given him by the old Vega company.

Subject: RE: old-time picking on resonator banjos
From: GUEST,Owlkat
Date: 12 Aug 00 - 02:47 AM

Hi,
I've frailed resonator banjos for the volume, but not for the tone.
I remember seeing Cathy Fink, and Eric Nagler frailing resonater backed banjos. So there.
As far as skin heads go, I've installed and played on them, but I wouldn't suggest it unless you're playing an older open back like a ninety year old Fairbanks, Bacon and Day, or Cole, or something like that, which would almost demand a skin head,(and nylon strings) to sound right.
They are murder to put on, and have the annoying habit of ripping just when you've got them perfectly tightened. Not something to look forward to when you've just paid fifty bucks canadian for the damn thing and the customer you've installed it for is expecting to record with it the next day.
Climate change plays hell with the tension, too. Fiberskyn is okay for most things.
Mellow tone can also be enhanced with a no-knot tailpiece, instead of a long-tongued bluegrass tailpiece.
Yuh.
Owl.

Subject: RE: old-time picking on resonator banjos
From: Jed at Work
Date: 11 Aug 00 - 01:10 PM

... and if yer group is playing on-stage with electronics, Les B - a pick-up in yur open backed banjo would be a great equalizer ... I promise you the fishman banjo pick-up has an amazing reproduction and while no pick-up will give you that completely natural sound of tyour acoustic instrument, it realy will give you a very good sounding facsimle, that nca be mixed well in a sound system.

Subject: RE: old-time picking on resonator banjos
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 11 Aug 00 - 12:28 PM

I'm with Arnie on this. (by the way Catters, are you aware that he's one of the finest Old time players around, with two great albums of pure banjo?)

Don't forget that Doc Watson and Mike Seeger also made wonderful old-time music on resonator banjos.

I think a lot of it comes down to "sustain" rather than simply "volume".

Rick

Subject: RE: old-time picking on resonator banjos
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 11 Aug 00 - 12:09 PM

I know little aout this style but what about other aspects? How many old-time players go for a real skin or a fiberskin one as opposed to the standard plastic head? I would guess that this item has more effect on the tone than the resonator.

Jon

Subject: RE: old-time picking on resonator banjos
From: Mark Clark
Date: 11 Aug 00 - 12:02 PM

I only own one banjo---A resonator arch-topped Mastertone copy---so it is the object of any banjo playing I do whether clawhammer or three-fingered. Ralph Stanley alway played clawhammer style on his resonator banjo so I figured I had permission to do that as well.

There are of course tonal differences between banjo types and each player must choose the sound he or she wants to hear. Still, I think part of the reason Northerners may stick with the open-backed configuration is something akin to snobbery. When I was introduced to folk music, Northern urban players preferred playing guitars with slotted heads. It wasn't that these guitars sounded better, it was just that they didn't look like the guitars country performers used. At that time, folk performers worked hard to draw a distinct line between themselves and commercial country musicians. (I think it allowed us to feel superior without having to compete.)

In my opinion, many folk banjoists from the urban North work just as hard to distance themselves from commercial country and bluegrass performers. They often eschew the flash and glitter associated with many of the resonator banjos in favor of a more subdued home and hearth sort of look.

It's never been clear to me whether audiences care about the appearance of a performer's instrument or even notice the difference but I do recognize the importance of visual clues when trying to establish an identity in the mind of the public.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: old-time picking on resonator banjos
From: Downeast Bob
Date: 11 Aug 00 - 11:24 AM

I think Les B has nailed it as to why people play clawhammer on resonator banjos. I do it for the same reason. Even without the rowdy environment, the resonator keeps the banjo from being drowned out. I still wonder, though, why southern clawhammer pickers do this so much more often than northern folkies.

Subject: RE: old-time picking on resonator banjos
From: GUEST,Les B
Date: 11 Aug 00 - 11:18 AM

Good thread about something I've pondered for several years. I play a resonator banjo, three finger style, but would like to add some clawhammer tunes.

However, our group jams without sound reinforcement (mics & amps) in some fairly rowdy, noisy bars -- an open backed frailing banjo just cannot be heard, especially with a bass, several fiddles, a couple of mandolins, and three or four guitars, and the odd bodhran or autoharp.

I suspect some frailers use resonators simply as "survival of the fittest" in order to cope with the venue. When you hear the frailing style step out, it's usually in a quieter setting, and the banjo is paired with a good fiddler. And of course when you hear them at most festivals or concerts it's through a sound system.

Subject: RE: old-time picking on resonator banjos
From: JedMarum
Date: 11 Aug 00 - 09:27 AM

Oh yes, arnie - I agree that there are plenty of good open backs available (I just bought a new Vega a few months back, and I've seen others on the market). I just meant the sheer volume of production seem to go to the resonator style. It seem thats for for every 30 or 50 resonators they make an oen back (my numbers may be way off, but you get the idea).

In fact, I played a beautiful brand new open backed banjo at a shop in Fredricksburg VA - a local/regional maker, I didn't recognize the name (though I'm not a banjo expert). It had a sweet, crisp sound and a beautiful neck. The damn thing played itself! I was really impressed - and its was priced at about 1000. If I hadn't just bought my Vega, I'd have scooped it up!

Subject: RE: old-time picking on resonator banjos
From: GUEST,arnie
Date: 11 Aug 00 - 08:56 AM

I have also heard old time players with resonator banjos. Doc Boggs, Roscoe Holcolm , Paul Brown , Morgan Sexton for instance. It's a matter of style and tonal taste. Personally I do not like a loud and huge sustain in clawhammer music, and prefer a more warm mid range tone - so open back is my choice- and Jed there are very good open back banjos available if people are willing to spend some bucks.

Subject: RE: old-time picking on resonator banjos
From: JedMarum
Date: 11 Aug 00 - 08:47 AM

isn't it just playin' on what's most commonly available? It seems most of the good banjos made now-a-days are resonator banjos. So maybe its just a sheer volume things - more good banjos these days are resonators, so they end up in the hands of claw hammer players in greater numbers.

Subject: RE: old-time picking on resonator banjos
From: Charcloth
Date: 11 Aug 00 - 08:46 AM

I have a resonater banjo & an open back as well. I much prefer the open back for frailing. The resonater is a high quality bluegrass banjo but it is too loud for frailing & singing (although that is what I do with it) The open back has a better sounding tone for frailing as it is slightly softer banjo. The bluegrass banjo's sustain is longer also this works well if I am doing a slow air like "Sheebeg Sheemore" but it gets in the way on reels & jigs. To be honest I want to trade the bluegrass banjo off for another open back, because sound just doesn't suite me. I case you are wondering why I want 2 banjos, I use double C tuning alot as well as G tuning & while I am on stage I hate trying to retune a banjo.

Subject: old-time picking on resonator banjos
From: Downeast Bob
Date: 11 Aug 00 - 07:57 AM

One of the things that puzzles me is why northern folkies almost never use resonator 5-string banjos for anything except bluegrass. I've met a lot of old-time southern pickers who frail and clawhammer the bejeezums out of a resonator banjo. Part of me suspects it's a technique used by and for the hard of hearing. Another part says, "No, it's just slavish adherence to old-timey tradition." I'd like to know what others think.