BS: Cromwell song challenge

Subject: Cromwell song challenge
From: paddymac
Date: 15 Aug 00 - 04:56 PM

It was 351 years ago today (15 Aug 1649) that Oliver Cromwell arrived in Ireland, landing at Ringsend, Dublin, with 12,000 troops. There is no more reviled figure in the sordid history of English occupation in Ireland. Though it can gice no consolation to the thiousands murdered by Cromwell' :Model Army", nor the thousands sold into slavery at a handsome profit by Cromwell himself, their descendants, as well as those of freedom-loving peoople everywhere, might find some sense of balance in Cromwell's own misfortunes and posthunous indignities.

Modern scholars have concluded that Cromwell suffered from malaria most of his life and died of a "tertian ague" on 3 Sept 1658. Two years after his death the monarchy was restored and royalists went looking for revenge. They disinterred Cromwell's body from Henry VII's Chapel at Westminster Abbey, and hanged it to the accompaniment of cheers and jeers of an enthusiastic mob at Tyburn. The body was then decapitated and the head was spiked on the roof of Westminster hall, were legend holds it stayed for a quarter century, until it was blown down by gusting winds, landing at the feet of an unknown sentry who, sensing a windfall (pun intended), took it home. Roughly a hundred years later, an actor named Russell sold the head to a museum (curiosities dealer?) near Clare Market, and the museum resold it to Josiah Wilkinson for #230, a substantial sum in those days. Wilkinson gained a bit of notoriety by his habit of taking the head to parties. Wilkinson's grandson Horace ultimately presented the head to Cromwell's old college, Sidney Sussex in Cambridge, where it was authenticated by close comparison th Cromwell's death-mask. A key observation was a distinctive mark over the right eyebrow, near the bridge of the nose, where Cromwell's "famous wart" had been. The head was reportedly then reinterred at Sussex College, with its location known only to a select few of the college staff.

Here's the song challenge part of the thread. I've encountered the odd reference (no pun intended) to Cromwell in several songs, but I don't recall ever hearing or encountering a song specifically about him. Can the brilliant minds that comprise the wonderful world of Mudcat come up with a song or songs about him? Put your words to a singable tune and I'm pretty sure I know at least one pub band that will give it a go.

Subject: RE: BS: Cromwell song challenge
From: AndyG
Date: 16 Aug 00 - 04:23 AM

John Cleese and Graham Chapman already did it:
The Ballad of Oliver Cromwell.

AndyG

Subject: RE: BS: Cromwell song challenge
From: Manitas
Date: 16 Aug 00 - 05:51 AM

There's a music hall song called "One of the Ruins that Cromwell knocked about".

Subject: RE: BS: Cromwell song challenge
From: GeorgeH
Date: 16 Aug 00 - 06:47 AM

Paddymac: as ever, you take a one-dimesional view of Cromwell (ok, as far as his Irish dimension goes your remarks are at least arguably true). But we've been over this ad nausium in the past.

Regards

George.

Subject: RE: BS: Cromwell song challenge
From: GUEST,shanti
Date: 16 Aug 00 - 08:01 AM

Do I take it, George, that you have a brighter, more uplifting view of OC? I'm fairly new to this list, and I'd like to hear exactly what wonderful things you have found about the man. He was a fanatic and soldier, and that's always a very dangerous combination. If you don't want to run the risk of nauseating the others, you can write to me personally.

As for songs about the man...the lack of them should tell you something. So far, we have a music hall song and an offering from the Monty Python troops. Just not much that's worthy of remembrance in any way.

Subject: RE: BS: Cromwell song challenge
From: AndyG
Date: 16 Aug 00 - 08:58 AM

Slightly anal but it pains me to see everything John Cleese is associated with being labelled Python.

In this instance, the song was transmitted on 2nd Feb. 1969, which is 8 months before the first ever Monty Python's Flying Circus was broadcast (5th Oct. 1969).

The Ballad of Oliver Cromwell was transmitted as part of the radio show I'm Sorry I'll Read That Again (ISIRTA)

The lyrics, as far as they go, are an entirely accurate recounting of Oliver Cromwell's politcal/military career. Any humour is founded in the fact that John Cleese can't sing and the choice of melody. (listen to the .wav)

AndyG

Subject: RE: BS: Cromwell song challenge
From: paddymac
Date: 16 Aug 00 - 12:04 PM

Manitas - thanks for the link to the Cromwell song. It's a brilliant piece.

George H - Thanks for your observation and comment. Coming from you, I take it as high praise. I concur with your implicit suggestion that none of us, famous or not, is entirely uni-dimensional. However, many persons achieve fame or infamy because of some more singular aspect of their life. I acknowledge the relativity of fame and infamy, and further acknowledge that the same act or attribute can generate both fame and infamy, depending on the perspective of the viewer. Examples on this side of the pond include (a) Andrew Jackson, son of immigrants from Carrickfergus, who was arguably the most popular President we've ever had, and the most villanous and Cromwell-esque when viewed in respect to the Indian removals from the southeastern US, and (b) Bill Clinton, whose legitimate achievements will likely be overshadowed by his impeachment because of his dalliance with an intern. It is, I think, fair to argue that a person's conduct should be evaluated with awareness of the context of their times, and not solely judged by modern mores. But notion of academic balance can not be used to excuse Cromwell, any more than it could be used to excuse the behaviors called war crimes, regardless of who commits them. We are also in agreement that this topic has been debated at great length in various threads, and I apologize if I've plowed old fields here.

Subject: RE: BS: Cromwell song challenge
From: guinnesschik
Date: 16 Aug 00 - 03:29 PM

Actually, "Young Ned of The Hill", an English translation of "Eammon An Cunuic" talks extensively about Cromwell's less than wonderful treatment of the Irish.

Subject: RE: BS: Cromwell song challenge
From: wildlone
Date: 16 Aug 00 - 04:12 PM

I have been a re-enactor in the army of Parliment since 1969,
The thing that strikes me about Cromwell is that he thought he was always right. He did some good for England but a lot of harm as well.
"Might is Right" you could say.
Gerard Winstanley and the Digger's had the best idea.