Music at the 1950s HUAC Hearings

Subject: Music at the 1950s HUAC Hearings
From:
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 08:05 AM

A long time ago, I heard that one of the entertainers called to testify (Seeger?, Guthrie?) at the 1950s House Un-American Activities Hearings was asked about his allegience to this country.

He replied in a parody to the tune of "Rosin the Bow" saying, in effect: "I will point a gun for my country...but I won't guarantee you which way."

Any further info or full text would be welcome. Thanks.

Subject: RE: Music at the 1950s HUAC Hearings
From: Brian Hoskin
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 08:39 AM

I'd like to know more about that as well. It reminds me of a quotation from E. M. Forster:

"I hate the idea of causes, and if I had to choose between betraying my country and betraying my friend, I hope I should have the guts to betray my country."

Brian

Subject: RE: Music at the 1950s HUAC Hearings
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 08:53 AM

Brian, pardon the pedantry ( but when did that ever stop me!) but I believe EMF used "courage" rather than "guts".
Further thread creep: this reminds me of a cartoon illustrating an article on Australian academics which showed them in stereotypical gowns and mortarboards with corks on strings on the mortarboards, drinking from cans of "E.M. Forsters". (Well, Antipodeans might appreciate it).
Now who has any real information on the HUAC rejoinder?
RtS

Subject: RE: Music at the 1950s HUAC Hearings
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 11:47 AM

Hi Al. The Woody Guthrie (who wasn't called by HUAC) parody on "Acres of Clams" was described by Pete Seeger (who was called but refused to testify) as happening at an open-air sing-around in California.

I'm not certain but I believe Woody was considered "too ill" at the time to be called as a witness. Doubt if he would have showed up anyway.

Rick

Subject: RE: Music at the 1950s HUAC Hearings
From: Brian Hoskin
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 11:50 AM

Sorry to further the thread creep (but it should keep the enquiry at the top of the list), but if there is a mistake in my quotation it is the fault of The Concise Oxford Dictionary of Quotations where I checked it. Had I done it from memory I think I would have assumed EMF used "courage" not "guts". However, Roger I will of course forgive your pedantry!

Right, who has information in relation to the REAL question?

Brian

Subject: RE: Music at the 1950s HUAC Hearings
From: Jim the Bart
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 12:11 PM

I thought Rick F. addressed the question. It's a great quote and places what I feel is a critical question squarely on the table. It has even led to some pretty interesting thread creep.

As an artist, and a patriot, and a man/woman of conscience, which direction do you point your gun, if you feel you should pick one up to begin with? It seems that this has been an active (though often unspoken) question in this country for a very long time - and is as important now as it ever was. Pete Seeger chose to not participate; if everyone who recognized the sleazy danger in Tailgunner Joe would have had the courage to do the same the hearings would have "died a bornin'". Woody Guthrie, based on Rick's citation, attacked through his music (which, as I see it, is kind of the indirect approach). Does anyone have any examples of artists that stood up and testified that the hearings were wrong?

Subject: RE: Music at the 1950s HUAC Hearings
From: DougR
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 01:27 PM

I doubt any of the witnesses would have been given that opportunity,Bartholomew. They were pretty tightly run.

DougR

Subject: RE: Music at the 1950s HUAC Hearings
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 06:53 PM

Brian. Since the "I will point a gun for my country" line happened at a hootenanny with many people extemporizing, it would be impossible to find a complete account of folks' contributions to it. The ballad, "Acres Of Clams" is easily found.

Certainly Paul Robeson gave them an earfull. His testimony is on record. I'm sure there must have been others.

Rick

Subject: RE: Music at the 1950s HUAC Hearings
From: Downeast Bob
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 08:47 PM

The way I remember it (sung by Pete, who attributed it to Woody): "They said, 'would you fight for your country?' I answered the F.B.I., 'Yay, I will point a gun for my country, But I won't guarantee you which way.'"

Subject: RE: Music at the 1950s HUAC Hearings
From: catspaw49
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 11:30 PM

Rick....Pete DID testify before HUAC.....if you can call it testimony. But its interesting reading to say the least. It was one of the first things I looked up on the net and Karen could see where the whole computer thing was going then!

Frankly the whole testimony would be hilarious, if it weren't so tragic.

CLICK HERE

Spaw

Subject: RE: Music at the 1950s HUAC Hearings
From: Brian Hoskin
Date: 24 Aug 00 - 08:30 AM

Thanks for the interesting contributions and the link to Pete's testimony. I just want to apologise to Rick and clear up the fact that our contributions crossed (I was slow!) and so when I asked who has 'information in relation to the REAL question' I didn't know Rick had already posted this.

Brian

Subject: RE: Music at the 1950s HUAC Hearings
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 24 Aug 00 - 11:24 AM

No problem Brian.

The funniest (I guess) thing I read about HUAC calling musicians was their hunt for Lee Hays. Apparently they sent all their paperwork to a very non-political actor also named "Lee Hays" and scared the crap out of him. Naturally he had nothing to tell them. The "folksinging" Lee took the fifth.

Yeah Paw. I've read Seeger's testimony many times and always wondered if I'd have had the guts to act the way he did. The answer always comes down to "no". I think, despite his socialist bent, he's always had some kind of respect for the system and felt it should be challenged "head on", even if it meant jail. He even appeared in jacket and tie.

Me? I would probably have headed off to Britain like Lomax did. Even before watching "OZ" on the tube, I knew prison was not a place I'd ever wanna be.

You DID have the guts to challenge the system a number of years ago, and I admire you greatly for that.

Rick

Subject: RE: Music at the 1950s HUAC Hearings
From: catspaw49
Date: 24 Aug 00 - 11:42 AM

Thanks Rick...........Ya know, after I linked that last night I sat back and read it again and the testimony is really well done by Pete. He stays directly to his point and states what he will answer while making a solid point that the song is the issue and not to whom or where it was sung. I think you have to have incredible cool and a fine sense of the absurd to pull that off as well as Pete did.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Music at the 1950s HUAC Hearings
From: SINSULL
Date: 24 Aug 00 - 12:25 PM

I was raised in a household where it was "My Country, Right or Wrong". Funny how we grow up. The questioning was outrageous. And Mr. Seeger was elegant even while tweaking their noses. Thanks for the link, Spaw.

Subject: RE: Music at the 1950s HUAC Hearings
From: Amergin
Date: 24 Aug 00 - 04:25 PM

Woody Guthrie was too sick to be called before McCarthy and his fascist cohorts, in fact he was too sick to be considered a real threat by Hoover and his Inquisitors....

Amergin

Subject: RE: Music at the 1950s HUAC Hearings
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 25 Aug 00 - 02:56 AM

Would have been fascinating anyway to know what Woodie would have done. He apparently never cared a whit about money, so they couldn't have threatened him with loss of a MAINSTREM career (as they did Burl Ives and Josh White). My guess is he would have talked for a VERY long time if called, and would have been considered a major pain in the ass to them. I'm not even sure if the possibility of jail would have deterred him. When he did get thrown in the clink for that "obscene letter" thing, he apparently enjoyed himself.

Rick

Subject: RE: Music at the 1950s HUAC Hearings
From: Big Mick
Date: 25 Aug 00 - 03:29 AM

One of the best threads yet. I never cease to be amazed at what I learn here. I knew a fair amount about this subject already, but Pete's testimony was very interesting to read. I would hope to have his courage and presence of mind in similar circumstances. Honor, ethics and courage all come to mind. It will be a pleasure to sing his song around the fire.

Mick

Subject: RE: Music at the 1950s HUAC Hearings
From: okthen
Date: 25 Aug 00 - 04:22 AM

i too was fascinated by 'spaw's link, but what occurred to me that surely the HUAC hearings were in themselves an "un-american" activity.

apologies if this has been said before

cheers

bill

Subject: RE: Music at the 1950s HUAC Hearings
From: Amergin
Date: 25 Aug 00 - 07:41 AM

Thanks, Spaw, that was very interesting....it's amazing how Pete was able to remain polite and poised throughout that whole line of fascist bullshit. Never ceases to amaze me what things you can learn at the cat.

Amergin

Subject: RE: Music at the 1950s HUAC Hearings
From: sledge
Date: 25 Aug 00 - 12:26 PM

I have never looked too closely at the HUAC period, partly because I am not from the US and partly because I have always found it a very uncomfortable issue.

But when you look at it, as this thread has caused me to, I don't think either Hitler or Stalin could have come up with such an instrument of terror while maintaing a facade of democracy.

Good thread.

Sledge

Subject: RE: Music at the 1950s HUAC Hearings^^^
From: Downeast Bob
Date: 25 Aug 00 - 02:35 PM

Even before HUAC started investigating folk singers, some folk singers were taking shots at the committee's nefarious activities, especially those involving trade unionists. I was happy to find this in the Mudcat data base, attributed to Betty Sanders and Irwin Silber. I once had a 78 rpm record of it on the People's Artists (I think) label.

TALKING UN-AMERICAN BLUES

If you want to go to Washington, here' s what to do You've got to talk for peace -- and sing it too; Talk to your neighbors, hear what they say, Before you know it, you're on your way -- Fare paid! Ride in style. First class.

'Course before you go you need an invitation To help Congress out in an investigation; A man comes around a-knocking at your door, And he'll give you a paper that says what for -- SUBPOENA -- Looking for un-Americans; Look in the mirror!

Well, you brush your hair and you dress real pretty You've got a date with the Un-American Committee; You take the stand and they swear you in, Old Man Wood is wearing a grin -- Be thinks he's got you- He's got a short memory Can't recall what happened in Detroit.

"Are you now or have you ever been, Were you ever sympathetic or interested in? When did you start, how long did it last, Tell us all about your interesting past -- Answer yes or no!"

"Did you go to a meeting, did you sign a petition, Did you ever hold an executive position? Did you make a speech, did you carry a card, Did you ever hold a conference in your back yard?" FIFTH AMENDMENT!

Now they were asking questions, but we wouldn't buy it, Like they did it in Detroit, it was time for us to try it; We added up the facts from the figures historical, And we asked a simple question which seems a bit rhetorical Mister Wood - "Are you now or have you ever been A Buzzard? (Or some similar epithet) You don't have to answer that question if you think it might tend to incriminate you.

Now Mister Wood, get out of your rut, Do you swear to tell the truth and nothing but? Well, Wood said he would, but we knew he wouldn't And even if he would, he damn well couldn't But that's Congress for you - Week in, week out, weak all over!

Now Wood wasn't gonna rest on his laurels, He tried his best to corrupt our morals; He talked about Philbrick and Budenz too "They're getting theirs, now how about you?"

Now I like chicken, and I like duck And I don't object to making a buck Well, I ain't got wings and I can't fly, But there's one bird that I won't buy -- Stool pigeon! I'm strictly in the market for doves of peace

You all know that birds of a feather Have a habit of flocking together But listen MacCurran, Wood and the rest You won't use us to feather your nest That's strictly for the birds

Now listen all you people, there's no doubt If you wanna be free, you gotta sing out Sing it strong, sing it clear Sing so loud those unamericans will hear That's my music - solid with a freedom beat And real gone! ^^^