What does 'CC Rider' mean?

Subject: RE: What does 'CC Rider' mean?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 Feb 17 - 04:43 PM

the mystery solved


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CC6lbO1nYRo

Subject: RE: What does 'CC Rider' mean?
From: michaelr
Date: 25 Feb 17 - 01:24 PM

Since we're obviously getting silly here, let me venture that CC stands for Carbon Copy.

Subject: RE: What does 'CC Rider' mean?
From: GUEST,Dean
Date: 25 Feb 17 - 05:28 AM

Sometime ago it was the title of a song and or a demeaning term used to describe a female lover. But now, I like to think it refers to a motorcycle rider. Above all else, CC is certainly that used for a motorcycle's engine size, and the Rider is he or she atop the engine.

Subject: RE: What does 'CC Rider' mean?
From: GUEST,Minorkle
Date: 25 Dec 16 - 11:21 PM

CC is for crack cocaine

Subject: RE: What does 'CC Rider' mean?
From: Thompson
Date: 06 Apr 16 - 07:15 PM

A big long engine and a little small engineer?

Mmmm hmmmm.

Subject: RE: What does 'CC Rider' mean?
From: GUEST,Joseph Scott
Date: 06 Apr 16 - 01:01 PM

"See, see, rider..." means "Look, look, lover...."

"See" twice created parallelism with "done done." ("Done done" was an actual colloquialism.) There are many variants of the "See See Rider" family by early-born blues musicians in which the corresponding line to "see see rider" is "look here mama" or the like, and those were likely around earlier than the "see see" wording. As an example of those, Joe McCoy sang "Well look here mama, see what you done done" in "That Will Be Alright." The wording "see here mama" is in e.g. Willie Walker (born 1896). Freddy King sang "See see baby" because it doesn't matter if it's "baby" or "rider," which mean the same thing, just as it doesn't matter if it's "look" or "see," when you're in fact saying look, look, mama.

Subject: RE: What does 'CC Rider' mean?
From: GUEST,GUEST.bilbeaux
Date: 29 Apr 14 - 12:06 AM

I had a relative who was a club musician in the Baltimore, D.C., Philly, area in the 40's and 50's. Said a C.C. rider was a cocaine addict. Said it was a common term among musicians, for a person with a really bad habit.

Subject: RE: What does 'CC Rider' mean?
From: GUEST,ezwinner03
Date: 11 Mar 14 - 10:30 PM

I suspect CC rider is referring to the NY subway CC train that runs between Brooklyn and Manhattan...It's as good an explanation as any of the others, less romantic maybe....

Subject: RE: What does 'CC Rider' mean?
From: GUEST,Bob Gross
Date: 03 May 13 - 01:28 AM

There used to be preachers who rode from town to town. They were known as 'circuit riders'. Musicians also did a circuit often called the "Caitlin circuit". They were known as "Chitlin circuit riders, or, C C Riders.

Subject: RE: What does 'CC Rider' mean?
From: GUEST,Suzi
Date: 08 Mar 12 - 10:55 AM

Here in Madison, the Capitol City of Wisconsin, the "CC Riders" are a Club of Bikers. Name Originated from "Capitol City Riders". The Club will celebrate their 44th Anniversary in July of 2012.
They do a lot of benefit ride and good deeds.

Subject: RE: What does 'CC Rider' mean?
From: GUEST,Wild Bill
Date: 17 Jun 11 - 10:53 AM

The letters C.C. is for Capitol City and Rider is as a refrence a Motorcycle Rider as in one man of a cycle gage going out on a ride and going in to small town bars seeing the country and finding a women that had to get out and see the other side the let your hair down and wild side.

Subject: RE: What does 'CC Rider' mean?
From: foggers
Date: 05 Oct 10 - 06:15 PM

Does that work in pounds sterling too??

Subject: RE: What does 'CC Rider' mean?
From: GUEST,Eduardo
Date: 10 Sep 10 - 12:35 AM

A CC rider is a prostitute who will have sex for $200 or less. (two C notes)

Subject: RE: What does 'CC Rider' mean?
From: GUEST,oldpops
Date: 02 May 10 - 01:35 PM

A reminder that two four-letter c-words are common terms for male and female genitalia. And rider surely means copulate.

Subject: RE: What does 'CC Rider' mean?
From: GUEST,Doc John
Date: 09 Apr 10 - 05:10 PM

A 'sweet man' is mentioned above; Lead Belly is an introdiction to TB Blues refers to (what sounds like) 'A Sweetback Man'. I've always taken this to be a pimp. If anyone can explain that intro I'd be grateful. And the meaning of 'Pigmeat' or the words to 'I'm Going to Hold It in Her While She's Young and Tender' of 'Yellow Jacket', I'd be very grateful too.

Subject: RE: What does 'CC Rider' mean?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 08 Apr 10 - 07:58 PM

It actually comes from Mexico. "Si Si Rider".

Subject: RE: What does 'CC Rider' mean?
From: GUEST,udlh john
Date: 08 Apr 10 - 04:35 PM

The term rider refers to your companion or "gal" or someone tagging along. for the CC read "see see" eg. "SEE SEE RIDER SEE WHAT YOU HAVE DONE" the term rider is used often in blues songs eg "WITH MY RIDER BY MY SIDE"    I dont know the reason for this but many blues lyrics sung by the early black bluse singers are very cryptic.   When the lyric suggests " I gonna beat that woman till I'm satisfied", or "I'm gonna beat the devil Put him in the ground" the reference was directed at thier overseer or boss man as obvious critisisum to these people would not have been in thier best interest to say the least.
The use of the word Man as in "yeh man" and "cool Man" etc. was also a relic of those days, a form of compensation for when the black man was suppresswed by white supremacy and had to endure perpetually being called "boy" The endearment term "Man" is as you are no doubt aware still used today among American black men

hope this infomation is of interest to you

Subject: RE: What does 'CC Rider' mean?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 08 Apr 10 - 01:53 PM

Welcome to Mudcat Caleb !

Lighter, J.E., Random House Dictionary of the American Slang Vol. 1, A-G, p 693.

Lighter gives 18 examples from 1914 to 1985. Some are:

easy rider n. Black E. 1. a parasitical man usu. without a steady job who lives by gambling or spnging, (specif.) a man who is supported by a woman, esp. a prostitute.
1914 In Handy Blues Treasury 77: Dear Sue, you Easy Rider struck this burg today. 1919 Wiley Wildcat 53: Where at is my li'l easy rider gone? 1934 G.W. Lee Beale St. 76: The "sweet men" and "easy riders" hung out on the second floor. 1935 Pollock Und. Speaks: Easy rider, a per sho attempts to make a living by betting on horse races. 1948 McIlwaine Memphis 346 [ref. to 1909-1914]: To Beach [Street], easyriders meant pimps; to Main Street, political grafters and protected vice lords.
. 2.a. a sexually satisfying lover. 1927 Journ. Abnor. & Soc. Psych. XXII 16: Easy rider…a man who movements in coitus are easy and satisfying. b. a young woman who is sexually promiscuous or easily seduced. Also easy ride..
1971 Current Slang V 10: easy rider n. Girl who "gives everything" on a first date.
3. a guitar. 1946 Blesh Trumpets 128: In rural Nego parlance…easy rider meant the guitar…carried suspended by its cord. 1958 in OEDS.
1946. a person who is not easily ruffled or provoked.
1971 S. Stevens Way Uptown 45: If you show mad, someone goin' beat you all the time. You gotta be an easy rider.

Wiki's are usful - and the best pieces of Mudcat had elements at times. However, just like Mudcat you should require a valid SOURCE, there is a lot of capricious speculation passing for "fact."

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Caleb - you ARE thinking - and according to Lighter - Back line medical corp in WWII were referred to as "CC Pushers." Language is always in flux.

Subject: RE: What does 'CC Rider' mean?
From: GUEST,bart
Date: 08 Apr 10 - 12:03 PM

I think it's Mrs. Willis' boy, Chuck. Sorry Dave O...couldn't resist. :-)

Subject: RE: What does 'CC Rider' mean?
From: Mavis Enderby
Date: 07 Apr 10 - 12:42 PM

Mousethief - have a look at this earlier discussion

Pete

Subject: RE: What does 'CC Rider' mean?
From: GUEST,Doc John
Date: 07 Apr 10 - 12:38 PM

'Rider' would just mean lady friend or similar, being a term of clearly sexual origin: to ride = to copulate. Doc Watson uses it from to to time. I get the impression some singers use the term without its full meaning; another example of this latter is 'where the jelly roll grows' in 'Dixie Darling' by the Carter Family.

Subject: RE: What does 'CC Rider' mean?
From: mousethief
Date: 06 Apr 10 - 08:06 PM

How does this, if at all, relate to the term "rider" just used by itself, without any "easy" or "C C" attached? I'm thinking of Travelling Riverside Blues, "Lord, I'm goin' to Rosedale, gon' take my rider by my side."

Subject: RE: What does 'CC Rider' mean?
From: Scorpio
Date: 06 Apr 10 - 02:11 PM

What a thread! The folklore process in action. As many of you, I had a 'Factual' explanation in my head, which I must have heard or read somewhere, but you never really know what's the truth.
The simplest solution is usually right. And the earliest version. I go with the 'Easy Rider' theory.

Subject: RE: What does 'CC Rider' mean?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 06 Apr 10 - 01:05 PM

I wish I knew how to edit Wikipedia.

"China/Rider," in Deadheadspeak, refers to the band's usual juxtaposition of "China Cat Sunflower" and "I Know You Rider" as a 2-song medley.

As discussed ad infinitum in a long, informative, and throughly enjoyable Mudcat thread that was just recently refreshed, the song "I Know You Rider" is NOT, by any stretch, the same song as "CC Rider" (or "Easy Rider").

It can't even be validly described as "The Grateful Dead's version of 'C.C. Rider'." It's Bob Coltman's setting of some lyrics gleaned from an Alan Lomax book, which became of sort of US-folk-revival standard widely familiar in the beatnik-folkie circles from which emerged the Grateful Dead:

thread.cfm?threadid=40592&messages=77

Subject: RE: What does 'CC Rider' mean?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 06 Apr 10 - 01:04 PM

Just for interest ~~ there was a London-based skiffle group called Easy Riders in mid 1950s who used to play at Nancy Whiskey's club at the Princess Louise: members were Sandy Sandfield, lead guitar [wonder what happened to him]; John Brunner [later a famous, Hugo-award-winning sf writer, died 1995], single-string-melody & rhythm guitar; & me, additional rhythm guitar + occasional washboard [obstinately surviving!]...

Ah, nostalgia...

♫♫~Michael~♫♫

Subject: RE: What does 'CC Rider' mean?
From: bobad
Date: 06 Apr 10 - 12:06 PM

From Wikipedia:

"Origins of the term

The term "See See Rider" is usually taken as synonymous with "easy rider". In particular, in blues songs it often refers to a woman who had liberal sexual views, had been married more than once, or was skilled at sex. Although Ma Rainey's version seems on the face of it to refer to "See See Rider" as a man, one theory is that the term refers to a prostitute, and in the lyric "You made me love you, now your man done come", "your man" refers to the woman's pimp. So, rather than being directed to a male "easy rider", the song is in fact an admonition to a prostitute to give up her evil ways.[5][6]

There are further theories:

    * "Easy rider" was sometimes used to refer to the partner of a hypersexual woman who therefore does not have to work or pay for sex.[6][5]
    * Another incorrect theory is that the term "easy rider" sometimes originally referred to the guitar hung across the back of a travelling blues singer.[7]
    * Other confused sources indicate that 'C.C. Rider' refers to early 'Country Circuit' Riding Preachers who traveled on horseback into many towns that were without formal churches at the time.[8]
    * The Grateful Dead often played the songs "China Cat Sunflower" and "I Know You Rider" in succession, but this combination was referred to as "China Rider" amongst Grateful Dead fans. The setlist entry "C.C. Rider" refers to the Grateful Dead's version of "C.C. Rider", performed by Bob Weir.[9]

Subject: RE: What does 'CC Rider' mean?
From: GUEST,Doc John
Date: 06 Apr 10 - 11:57 AM

Caleb, the song - which was recorded in the 30's or before - predates the use metric measures in that context; it would have been measured in Apothecaries' Measures - minims and the like. Lead Belly first recorded the song as C C Rider and later always Easy Rider.

Subject: RE: What does 'CC Rider' mean?
From: GUEST,Caleb
Date: 05 Apr 10 - 10:12 PM

Recently I decided that CC, which immediately brings to mind cubic centimeters, might refer to the measurement of liquids in a syringe. A "CC Rider" may be a person who shoots up heroin or morphine. Most kinds of hard drugs were used medically and were available at the time. This correlates with mentions of such activity in songs like spoonful (Charlie Patton) and might explain that signifying monkey stuff too.

Subject: RE: What does 'CC Rider' mean?
From: GUEST, NOMADman
Date: 10 Feb 04 - 10:43 PM

Guest,

Working from memory here. I also have Chuck Willis's 45 of C.C. Rider. 1956, or possibly 1957 would be the correct date. I have a handwritten note somewhere that says Willis's real first name was Harold. I have no idea where I learned that - my note is about as old as the record. Chuck Willis was an R&B singer who enjoyed a somewhat successful, but brief career in the mid-late '50's, cut short by an early death - complications of surgery, I think. He was probably in his thirties at the time of his death. I have another recording by him titled "It's Too Late" (flip side - "Kansas City Woman")recorded a few months - or a year - before C. C. Rider. Finally he had a posthumous hit with the ironic title "What Am I Living For" (flip side, the equally ironic "Hang Up My Rock and Roll Shoes."), released sometime in 1958, I think.

Willis recorded for the Atlantic label which was one of the more successful R&B labels of that era - run by a gentleman named Jerry Wexler, I believe. Their output was a bit more polished than many of the other R&B labels of the time.

This is fascinating. I think I'll do a bit more research. If I turn up anything really interesting I'll post it.

Regards,
John

Subject: RE: What does 'CC Rider' mean?
From: Cuilionn
Date: 10 Feb 04 - 12:53 PM

An entirely tangential note: ane o ma favourite maevies, "Leaving Normal", haes a whimsical character wi the nickname "CC." Tis wairth watchin the maevie jist for that character, particularly after readin this thread, but the entire maevie is wairth yir attention as weel. Naebody seems tae ken aboot it, but Ah think tis the best "road maevie" aboot twa womenfolk Ah've ever seen, an far ootshines sic films as "Thelma & Louise."

--Cuilionn

Subject: RE: What does 'CC Rider' mean?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 10 Feb 04 - 10:33 AM

Both, probably.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: What does 'CC Rider' mean?
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Feb 04 - 10:22 AM

Is that an answer or a bad sense of humour ?

Subject: RE: What does 'CC Rider' mean?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 10 Feb 04 - 10:19 AM

Mrs. Willis's boy Charles.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: What does 'CC Rider' mean?
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Feb 04 - 10:02 AM

I have an old 45 of this by a guy called chuck willis. Who was/is chuck willis ? I think I got the record in about 1956.

Subject: RE: What does 'CC Rider' mean?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 10 Feb 04 - 09:45 AM

Josh White (Sr.) sang it as "Easy Rider", for whatever that's worth.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: What does 'CC Rider' mean?
From:
Date: 10 Feb 04 - 06:54 AM

If anyone has anything to add to this ancient thread on the origin of "C. C. Rider," please let me know.

It's interesting how different the meaning of the song becomes with the one popular change: "You made me love you, and now your man has come" vs. "You made me love you, and now your (or my!) man is gone."

Subject: RE: What does 'CC Rider' mean?
From: GUEST,Brad Sondahl
Date: 28 Apr 01 - 10:55 AM

I remember reading on some record jacket that CC was for Country Circuit rider, and referred to preachers who travelled to a lot of little churches (and dallied hither and yon). Both that and the magistrates point to "respectable" traveling people who might commingle without commitment. Brad http://pages.about.com/bsondahl

Subject: RE: What does 'CC Rider' mean?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 28 Apr 01 - 10:34 AM

Back when I was in college "CC" stood for Canadian Club; then there was "Red Rhyder" which I'm sure someone remembers...

Subject: RE: What does 'CC Rider' mean?
From: dr soul
Date: 28 Apr 01 - 05:10 AM

Not wanting to muddy the waters - as it were - but going to do so anyway: A long time ago I heard that the term CC Rider came from . . . small rural communities in the American south were too spread out to have their own preachers, so Southern Baptist preachers traveled from town to town - i.e. rode a circuit - county circuit riders - CC Rider. I understood the song "CC Rider" (the most famous version of which was recorded by Chuck Willis for Atlantic Records in about 1956) to be the theme of someone who fell in love with the itinerant preacher, shucked their main squeeze, and then were left broken hearted when the preacher moved on. ("You done made me love you, and now my good gal is gone"). HOWEVER - having read the thought-provoking responses in this thread, I was moved to look up CC rider in "Living Country Blues" (Harry Oster, Minerva Press, NY, 1975) and found railroad references. Oster says that this tune is similar to "Corrina", which in turn was a variant of an old them called "Alberta" (dating to 1906).

Since the original question was about early lyrics, here's a quote from the book (p. 421)

"Well now CC Rider, gal will see what you have done?
You know you made me love you and now your man has come.

It was a great long engine, and a little small engineer,
Took my woman away along and left me standing here.

But if I had listened, to my second mind
I wouldn't be here wringing my hands and crying. [Note: Howlin' Wolf used this in "Killing Floor"]

There aint no mo potatoes, the frost done killed the vine, and the blues aint nothing but a good gal on your mind.

Now if you see Corrina, tell her to hurry home. I aint had no true love, since Corrina been gone."

This quotes Herman Johnson's "C.C. Rider", which comes from Blind Lemon Jefferson's "Corrina Blues" (1926).

Hope this helps!

Subject: RE: What does 'CC Rider' mean?
From: MichaelAnthony
Date: 28 Apr 01 - 12:31 AM

Annamill,

That's some great info there on "Easy Rider" having almost the same words as "CC Rider". Very interesting about a female point of view and being left pregnant!

"Signifying monkey"...that's very curious...what is that about?

MA

Subject: RE: What does 'CC Rider' mean?
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 27 Apr 01 - 07:55 PM

Great info! However, as a former resident of Springfield, Mass., I should mention that the Indian Motocycle Co. was the first in the US to manufacture motorcycles. Not that I'm a biker or anything, just believe in giving the proper credit where it's due.

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: What does 'CC Rider' mean?
From: Mr Red
Date: 27 Apr 01 - 07:26 PM

Am I missing something. US engines were invariably measured in cubic inches.
I also heard about the "Easy Rider" versions and the possibility that "CC" might be backformed from it.

Subject: RE: What does 'CC Rider' mean?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 27 Apr 01 - 03:34 PM

Thanks for covering this, C.C.. I've been shut out of this website all day and, Lord knows, where this thread might have gone.

Subject: RE: What does 'CC Rider' mean?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 27 Apr 01 - 02:37 PM

Phoarh, the things you learn here!!!

Trains, pimps, song words and the history of the Harley Davidson Motorcycle manufacturers.....

Where else, but here!!!

LTS

(I always thought it was easy rider, but could never quite gel it with the picture of Dennis Hopper......)

Subject: RE: What does 'CC Rider' mean?
From: Chicken Charlie
Date: 27 Apr 01 - 01:36 PM

Good Grief Charlie Brown, this is Deja Vu all over again. Charley Noble & I just did some totally profound posts on another, which you can see if you refresh to "3 Days" if it's not still up.

Here's the jist: Easy rider is a person of either sex who plays the field; not necessarily a hooker or pimp. Technically the pimp or giggolo who lives off of women who either work for him or hire him would be an "easeman," as in "Natural born easeman don't have to work," which is from the evolved version of "Casey Jones." C. Noble had a reference in one of Carl Sandburg's books that supported all this--I think the other thread was Lyr. Req. Sea Sea Rider [sic]. Seek an' ye shall find.

Seems to me there was a performer named C.C. Ryder in about the fifties, or that could have been sort of an all-purpose persona like "Johnny B. Goode." C.C. un-rider

Subject: RE: What does 'CC Rider' mean?
From: annamill
Date: 27 Apr 01 - 01:21 PM

It also had "Signifying Monkey" refering to another thread about Oscar Brown Jr.

Another great song.

L.A.

Subject: RE: What does 'CC Rider' mean?
From: annamill
Date: 27 Apr 01 - 01:19 PM

I had an old book with what was then called "Negro Folksongs and Folklore" and "Easy Rider" was one of the songs, as well as a couple of different versions of "Frankie and Johnny", and "Stag-o-Lee". It was a great book, but a dog I once had ate it Grrr....

Point bein', it had the almost same words as C.C. Rider. except it was from the point of a woman and you get the definite idea that she was left pregnant.

"Easy Rider, see what you done, done",repeat, "you loved me Baby, and now my man is gone".

Great song.

Love, annamill

Subject: RE: What does 'CC Rider' mean?
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler
Date: 27 Apr 01 - 10:28 AM

I'm with namesake from Baltimore on this, "Easy rider" then corrupted to See See,or C C .When I looked into this to answer The Sea Sea thread there were even more variants of the words than I was expecting, and, as you might expect, hundreds of recordings extant.
RtS (now see what you done done!)

Subject: RE: What does 'CC Rider' mean?
From: Allan C.
Date: 27 Apr 01 - 10:21 AM

I have always connected this song with the rails rather than the motorcycle. Here is a link to a listing of railroads and their histories, many of which I believe to be possible candidates for being the elusive CC. Take a look.

Subject: RE: What does 'CC Rider' mean?
From: Elise
Date: 27 Aug 00 - 01:33 PM

Sweet Honey in the Rock does a terrific version, and on the album In This Land it's called See See Rider.