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Tune Req: Wallifou Fa' The Cat/Tweedside

John in Brisbane 29 Aug 00 - 08:00 AM
GUEST,Bruce O. 29 Aug 00 - 04:00 PM
GUEST,Bruce O. 29 Aug 00 - 04:15 PM
GUEST,Bruce O. 29 Aug 00 - 04:52 PM
GUEST,Bruce O. 29 Aug 00 - 05:59 PM
GUEST,Bruce O. 29 Aug 00 - 06:47 PM
John in Brisbane 31 Aug 00 - 12:59 AM
John in Brisbane 31 Aug 00 - 08:09 AM
GUEST,Bruce O. 31 Aug 00 - 02:24 PM
GUEST,Bruce O. 31 Aug 00 - 02:43 PM
John in Brisbane 31 Aug 00 - 07:26 PM
GUEST,Bruce O. 31 Aug 00 - 08:17 PM
GUEST,Bruce O. 01 Sep 00 - 06:59 PM
John in Brisbane 16 Feb 03 - 08:39 PM
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Subject: Wallifou Fa' The Cat/Tweedside
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 29 Aug 00 - 08:00 AM

Does anyone actually know the tune to Wallifou Fa' The Cat which is listed in the DT without tune. I'll be submitting a tune in the next day or so to Mudcat MIDIs known as 'Tweedside' which seems to fit in terms of both lyric references and general scansion.

The tune is used for 'When Maggie and I were Acquaint' by Lord John Yester and 'What beauties doth Flora disclose' by Crawford.

Any clues about the Cat please.

Regards, John


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Wallifou Fa' The Cat/Tweedside
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 29 Aug 00 - 04:00 PM

The opening of the song is from a broadside ballad (from my broadside index):

There was an a bonny young Lad/ ZN2550| A new song of Moggies Jealousie: Or, Jockies Vindication/ Tune: You London Lads be merry; Or, woo't thou be wilfull still my Joe/ Entred according to Order/ P4 32 = DC2 158b = BDN 68: J. Deacon [See RB4 544 for MS verses. Entd. June 1, 1684, to J. Deacon. AI 1783]

The Douce collection copy can be see on the Bodley Ballads website, and an ABC of the tune for it ("You London Lads be merry") is B537 among the broadside ballad tunes on my website. There is a manuscript indication that "You London lads be merry" was originally a Scots song [not noted by Simpson, BBBM, where he notes copies of the song, which is not on any known broadside.]

The MS verses in Roxburge Ballads IV, p. 544, (given below) and the alternative tune indication, "Woo't thou be wifull still my Joe" seem to indicate that it is a slightly corrupted copy of the original Scots song, and "Moggie's Jealousy" was a broadside expansion of it.

Scotch Song [1679?]

Wilt thou be wulful stil,
and wilt thou be wulful stil;
Wilt thou be wulful stilll?
Shem for thy wulful will!
For the Lasse that I loued well,
was wooed against my will:
For the lass that I loued well,
was wooed against my will.

Jenny, gae hem to thy berns,
and sweeting, gae hem to thy berns,
An dearing, gae hem to thy berns,
and keep them a' from harms!
For the Lasse that I loued well,
was wooed against my will:
For the lass that I loued well,
was wooed against my will.

There was a bonny young lad,
that kept on a peckeny sheep;
He met with a bony young Lasse,
that wayed in the water so deep.
It came on aboue her knee,
"Ah!" she sed, "Bony young lad,
Wilt thoy [come] done the Tweed,
So [come alang] doon wth mee. [So lie thee down?]
.........................................

These MS verses give no indication of where our cat came from.

A tune "Dole an' Woe fa' our Cat" is called for, but music not printed, in Henry Brooke's "Songs in Jack the Gyant Queller', 1749.

It looks like the MS text above and that from Herd (in DT) have verses from different songs, so there's no way to sort out what's what. "Tweedside" was one of the most popular of all tunes to be used in the 18th century ballad operas that printed the music, but the 'Tweed' in our song of the 17th century seems to me to be unlikely to be connected to it.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Wallifou Fa' The Cat/Tweedside
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 29 Aug 00 - 04:15 PM

Darn, an error. The next to last line in the last verse quoted above should be "Wilt thou [come] down to me". Note that the broadside version has 'Mow' rather than 'lie down' with me in that last line above.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Wallifou Fa' The Cat/Tweedside
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 29 Aug 00 - 04:52 PM

The evidence for "Ye London Lads be Merry" as Scots, noted above, is in BL MS Harleian 6913, where, f. 103, "Scotch Song" commences "Ye London lads be sorry, Your parlimient Friends are gone". [Available on microfilm]


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Wallifou Fa' The Cat/Tweedside
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 29 Aug 00 - 05:59 PM

I may have to recant. "Tweedside" is called "Down Tweedside" in the late 17th century Blaikie MS, and this may come from the last line of the first verse of "Wallifou fa' the Cat", "Come down Tweedside to me". So we have two possible tunes with "You London lads be merry/sorry", and there's not much similarity between them. The latter tune should perhaps more properly be called "Wilt thou be willful still, my Jo".


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Wallifou Fa' The Cat/Tweedside
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 29 Aug 00 - 06:47 PM

Here's "Tweedside" as given by Nelly Diem, 'Beitrage zur Geschichte der Schottischen Musik in XVII. Jahrhundert', 1919.

X:1
T:Twide Syde
S:Leyden Lyra Viol MS of 1692
Q:120
L:1/4
M:3/4
K:Gmixolydian
B|GDE|G3/2 A/ (3B/A/G/ |A2B||GDE|G2B/A/|G2d/B/|GDE|G3/2 A/ B/G/|\
A2 G/A/|Bd/B/ A/G/|AB/A/ G/E/|G2||g|dBG|d e/d/c/B/|A2g|\
dBG|de/d/c/B/|d2g/e/|dBG|de/d/c/B/|A2 G/A/|de/d/ A/G/|\
A B/A/ G/E/|G2|]


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Wallifou Fa' The Cat/Tweedside
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 31 Aug 00 - 12:59 AM

Bruce, thank you for your erudite reply. I will need some time to examine your response and compare tunes. Thanks, John


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Wallifou Fa' The Cat/Tweedside
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 31 Aug 00 - 08:09 AM

Bruce, the tune I have to Tweedside has some similarities but is not the same - I've only looked at a few bars. My source is The Songs of Scotland Vol II (Royal Edition) edited by Myles B Foster. No publication date is given. I'll create some time at the weekend to look more carefully at the two tunes. Regards, John


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Wallifou Fa' The Cat/Tweedside
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 31 Aug 00 - 02:24 PM

John Glen in 'Early Scottish Melodies', p. 69 (on Scots Musical Museum #36), 1900, specifically identifies the tunes in the Blaikie and Leyden manuscripts as "Tweedside", but gives the title in the Blaikie MS as "Doun Tweedside".


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Wallifou Fa' The Cat/Tweedside
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 31 Aug 00 - 02:43 PM

I posted the ABC of "You London lads be sorry/merry" on the SCOTS-L list, asking if anyone could recognize it as a Scots tune by any name. Jack Campin replied that he couldn't recognize it, so probably no one can.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Wallifou Fa' The Cat/Tweedside
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 31 Aug 00 - 07:26 PM

Bruce, Does this mean that you agree that there is a reasonable probability that Tweedside is the tune for Wallifou Fa' The Cat? Regards, John


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Wallifou Fa' The Cat/Tweedside
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 31 Aug 00 - 08:17 PM

There are two known good possibilities, "Tweedside" and "You London lads be sorry/merry". There's no evidence to go any further. I suspect that "Wallifou fa' the cat" consists of verses from two different songs. The opening verse could be to either of the two tunes mentioned. What tune might be the proper for the rest, I have no idea. Ask Murray on Saltspring. He's the one that got it from Herd's 'Scots Songs' and contributed it to DT, and he knows a lot about Scots music, as well as songs.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Wallifou Fa' The Cat/Tweedside
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 01 Sep 00 - 06:59 PM

I got an e-mail from Murray on Saltspring today, and in my reply I asked him to take a look at what we have here.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Wallifou Fa' The Cat/Tweedside
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 08:39 PM

An oldie Bruce, but are we any closer to answering this question?

Regards, John


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