Open Tunings: Any Thoughts?

Subject: Open Tunings: Any Thoughts?
From: Peter T.
Date: 06 Sep 00 - 10:56 AM

Some months ago, I started with great trepidation into open waters - open G tuning -- and el Maestro Rick Fielding threw a Hawaiian tuning at me, and then we hit open-D, and one morning I happened to run across the Joni Mitchell tuning for her classic song Amelia (open-D tuned down a couple of frets to C). I note that we have had one small thread on DADGAD (the invented Celtic tuning). A couple of questions:

1) I suppose most people know that Joni Mitchell uses weird tunings, but it interests me that there are obviously a lot of famous songs that are in different tunings, which you can't find out about from the sheet music, because it is all standard! It is only when you do an open tuning that the sound of a familiar song hits you -- oh that is how they did that. Anyone got any familiar songs in some far out tuning that the citizens (me) don't know about?
2) Something standard that sounds really interesting in a different tuning.
3) Any tricks of the tuning trade you would like to share with novices?

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Open Tunings: Any Thoughts?
From: black walnut
Date: 06 Sep 00 - 11:22 AM

alas that we assume we're always talking about guitars....

or are we?

~black walnut

Subject: RE: Open Tunings: Any Thoughts?
From: Grab
Date: 06 Sep 00 - 11:23 AM

Romeo and Juliet - MK uses an open tuning on the Dobro for that, although it's perfectly possible to play it with standard tuning. I seem to remember he uses open-D and capos it.

Grab.

Subject: RE: Open Tunings: Any Thoughts?
From: Peter T.
Date: 06 Sep 00 - 11:37 AM

I am talking about guitars. Since there are currently accordion and harmonica threads going, this does seem a strange complaint.
Is Romeo and Juliet the theme from the film?

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Open Tunings: Any Thoughts?
From: black walnut
Date: 06 Sep 00 - 12:09 PM

oh, i am misunderstood.

i was only meaning that there are open tunings on other stringed instruments, such as fretted dulcimer. i've tried a bit of slide dulcimer, with open tuning, for example. your initial heading and posting didn't indicate which instrument, but assumed guitar.

it wasn't really a complaint, peter, merely an observation....

~'nut

Subject: RE: Open Tunings: Any Thoughts?
From: Peter T.
Date: 06 Sep 00 - 12:15 PM

I should have specified -- I see that there are also open tunings for banjos -- I didn't know they called them open tunings elsewhere. yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Open Tunings: Any Thoughts?
From: black walnut
Date: 06 Sep 00 - 12:22 PM

no problem....actually i'm quite a fan of DADGAD guitar. i have played regular tuning (badly) for years, and find that DADGAD is more my style. it combines well with dobro, too.

~'nut

Subject: RE: Open Tunings: Any Thoughts?
From: GUEST,Phil Cooper
Date: 06 Sep 00 - 02:28 PM

Open and other alternate tunings can give you sounds that are difficult to get in standard tuning. They are also limiting in a way. But I've always tried seeing what I could do with the limitations.

Subject: RE: Open Tunings: Any Thoughts?
From: black walnut
Date: 06 Sep 00 - 02:37 PM

i think it's often limitations that give us the greatest leaps of learning. my celtic harp is limiting by only having 7 strings per octave. my dulcimer is limiting because there are only 4 notes at my disposal at any given time. my piano is limiting because it doesn't fit into my car. my voice is limiting because i can't sing harmony with myself. my DADGAD tuning is limiting when i want to sing in C.

but finding and exploring the options within the given limitations is so very exciting.

my guitar hero, don ross, plays guitar in over 110 tunings. he knows them all by name, and retunes in and out of them very quickly. if you are able to give him a listen, i promise amazement....

~'nut

Subject: RE: Open Tunings: Any Thoughts?
From: gillymor
Date: 06 Sep 00 - 05:29 PM

I limit myself to just a few tunings outside of standard and one I really like is Malagasy- CGDGBE (low to high). I learned R. Thompson's '52 Vincent Black Lightning in it and subsequently arranged Ashokan Farewell, Planxty George Brabazon, Bonny Lass of Anglesey and a few others. It's also useful for playing blues in G as you have the I,IV,V in the bass on the 5th, 6th and 4th strings respectively and the familiarity of standard tuning on the top four strings. Open-C is close by as well.

Frankie

Subject: RE: Open Tunings: Any Thoughts?
From:
Date: 07 Sep 00 - 07:06 AM

I got a new insight from the thread on DADGAD vs Vestapol. Namely that open tuning pulls you into a mode if not an actual key whereas DADGAD and standard tuning don't have a specific mode attached to them. I think, besides different sonorities, that is a reason the same thing arranged in open tuning sounds different from it played in standard. It also justifies the claim of some that DADGAD is an alternate standard tuning.

Murray

Subject: RE: Open Tunings: Any Thoughts?
From: Brendy
Date: 07 Sep 00 - 07:41 AM

I think 'moods' (for want of a better word), can be suggesred better via certain open tunings.

When I start wrapping my head around a song, I try it out in a few tunings first, even to the extent of 'inventing' my own variants of tunings, to accomodate the easier positioning of the left hand on the frets. I'll try virtually all avenues, and explore a few of them a bit deeper.

I may well decide that standard tuning is the right one to pick, then again, I am wont to fly in the face of convention, and do it totally different.

I use DAGDAD quite a bit, though I'm not quite sure of the label 'invented Celtic tuning', Both the major and minor variants of that tuning; F and F#, 'dropped' D, and good ole trusty DBGDGD. The latter one I have violated aon a few occasions, tuning the bass D down to B, or the treble G up to D, or down to B.

I think open tunings should only be a guideline; they are extremly versatile in their 'standardised' form, but they can be 'tweaked' to provide something closer to what you had in mind.

I saw Pete Townsend and John Williams (the Classical guitarist), do an acoustic version of The Pinball Wizard. Townsend played it in open G.

B.

Subject: RE: Open Tunings: Any Thoughts?
From: IanS
Date: 07 Sep 00 - 10:52 AM

Here's a few "popular" tunes on different instruments tuned in slightly unusual ways: 1) "The Hangmans Reel" played by Aly Bain on the fiddle tuned AEAE. This is quite a common fiddle tuning if you want a drone at the bottom end. 2) "Brass in pocket" by the Pretenders. The bass is tuned DADG. This was in the days before 5 string basses really took off. 3) "The first cut is the deepest" by Martin Simpson on the guitar tuned DGDGBD. Most of his tunes are in unusual tunings and very kindly he usually tells you what they are on the sleeve notes - he sometimes even gives the tab.

I've personally always felt that there is no "standard" tuning for an instrument. If it sounds right then go for it. I think that if you are providing an accompaniment for a singer then the key that the singer chooses, timbre of their voice and the mood of the piece all affect the choice of tuning (I'm talking about the guitar here).

Subject: RE: Open Tunings: Any Thoughts?
From: Peter T.
Date: 07 Sep 00 - 03:04 PM

Thanks, gang, any more thoughts or practices we can learn from? yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Open Tunings: Any Thoughts?
From: Peter T.
Date: 07 Sep 00 - 03:04 PM

Thanks, gang, any more thoughts or practices we can learn from? yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Open Tunings: Any Thoughts?
From: Sean Belt
Date: 07 Sep 00 - 03:10 PM

Frankee,
Interesting that you're using a Malagasi tuning for 'Vincent Black Lightning'. It'd never occurred to me. I learned it in a dropped D tuning and it sounds pretty good. Now I'll have to re-tune and see if I can figure it out in your suggested tuning! Fun!
- Sean

Subject: RE: Open Tunings: Any Thoughts?
From: gillymor
Date: 07 Sep 00 - 05:10 PM

Sean, I read somewhere in a magazine interview with Thompson that that was what he played it in and took it from there. It actually lays pretty well in Malagasy.Let me know if you need any help.

Frankie

Subject: RE: Open Tunings: Any Thoughts?
From: GUEST,david
Date: 07 Sep 00 - 06:21 PM

martin carthy is an interesting guitarist (and wonderful singer of traditional english song) who uses some way out open tunings. i saw him play many times around northern england and he recommends using heavy gauged string if you are going to tune into very low tunings like C and A. if you use light gauge strings, picking can wind up sounding like spaghetti. i know open tunings are useful and they definitely provide new inspiration and all, but i heard you had to be stoned to really appreciate them. is that true?

Subject: RE: Open Tunings: Any Thoughts?
From: Brendy
Date: 07 Sep 00 - 06:24 PM

Drugs aint no big thing.

If you can't get lost in it without them, then you never truly will, no matter how 'enlightened' you become.

B.

Subject: RE: Open Tunings: Any Thoughts?
From: ddw
Date: 07 Sep 00 - 06:58 PM

I think I've mentioned it before in other threads, but I'll repeat it here.

I was fooling around with open tunings for an arrangement of Galveston Flood and hit one that I liked — an open C tuned, bass to treble — C G C G C C, with the E note achieved by bottlenecking to first string (treble E) at the fifth fret. It gives a really throaty bass without putting the trebles into the bat-cry range. Also found it works well for a version of Tom Rush's No Regrets.

Other than that, I mostly use open G, open D, drop D and standard tunings.

cheers

david

Subject: RE: Open Tunings: Any Thoughts?
From: okthen
Date: 07 Sep 00 - 07:04 PM

i am a musical CLOT (complete lack of talent)

but

if you put the string /note value into excel, could you not then tell the computer to work out the easiest fingering for each chord?

said i was a clot

can this be done?

cheers

bill

Subject: RE: Open Tunings: Any Thoughts?
From: Brendy
Date: 07 Sep 00 - 07:06 PM

I'll leave speculation of that to loftier souls than in that field.

Interesting concept, though.

B.

Subject: RE: Open Tunings: Any Thoughts?
From: Brendy
Date: 07 Sep 00 - 07:07 PM

"..than I, in that field"

B.

Subject: RE: Open Tunings: Any Thoughts?
From: Bernard
Date: 07 Sep 00 - 07:57 PM

If anyone's interested I have an old DOS program which handles chords and open tunings - saves mucking about in Excel when someone's already done it.

It's only small, so I can email it to anyone wot wants it...

email clicky

Subject: RE: Open Tunings: Any Thoughts?
From: Bernard
Date: 07 Sep 00 - 08:00 PM

Didn't work! try

[e-mail]

without a blue clicky - copy and paste!

Subject: RE: Open Tunings: Any Thoughts?
From: Bernard
Date: 07 Sep 00 - 08:02 PM

'ere! Why did http://www. get added when I didn't put it there? No wonder it didn't work!

Subject: RE: Open Tunings: Any Thoughts?
From: Whistle Stop
Date: 08 Sep 00 - 12:14 PM

I use Drop-D, Double-drop-D, Open D, Open G, and DADGAD fairly regularly, so I'm comfortable with them. I find that going beyond that and trying to use too many different tunings inhibits me -- since I'm not that familiar with them, I don't intuitively know where to go next, which means that I can't really improvise, but have to stick pretty close to the stock arrangement. Since one of the real joys in my life is improvisation, I generall stay with these few tunings so I'll be comfortable working things out on the fly.

I have also heard DADGAD referred to as an alternate "standard" tuning, but I have to disagree. Five of the six open strings are either the root or fifth of a D scale (in every commonly used mode), so it clearly steers you towards some variant of the key of D. You can play in another key in DADGAD, but the tuning is not equally well suited to other keys in my opinion.

Subject: RE: Open Tunings: Any Thoughts?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Sep 00 - 02:48 AM

Richard Thompson had the TAB to Vincent Black Lightning printed in Guitar Player Magazine, and he used CGDGBE

Is it malagasi? I don't know the term. Is the word of slack key origin?

My various guitars are tuned in EADGBE; DADGAD and CGDGBE, but I also like CGDGAD and EADF#BE (lute, downa M3rd).

Subject: RE: Open Tunings: Any Thoughts?
From: GUEST,Lucius
Date: 09 Sep 00 - 02:49 AM

The "guest" in the above posting just noticed that it's time to reset my cookie.

Lucius