Subject: RE: Old Joe Clark. THE folk song/tune? From: leeneia Date: 25 Sep 22 - 12:50 AM It's an interesting tune, Dorian mostly. Fun to play, but I wish it weren't so short. |
Subject: RE: Old Joe Clark. THE folk song/tune? From: Lighter Date: 20 Sep 22 - 01:33 PM A slightly earlier reference to the tune, again from North Carolina: Morganton [N.C.] Herald (Feb. 6, 1890): "John Branch, who escaped from Morganton jail,...was recaptured by jailor Ward last Friday night. Branch, who is an expert fiddler, was playing 'Old Joe Clarke' at a dance at John Piercy's, three miles above Piedmont Springs, and was taken completely by surprise." |
Subject: RE: Old Joe Clark. THE folk song/tune? From: GUEST,Lighter Date: 07 Feb 21 - 09:12 AM The Journal of American Folklore offers one stanza and a chorus from Tennessee in 1905 and a different stanza (no chorus) from Mississippi in 1909. |
Subject: RE: Old Joe Clark. THE folk song/tune? From: Mo the caller Date: 07 Feb 21 - 05:21 AM The simple tunes are really good to dance to. Strong structure to get people moving to the music. I often use Winster Gallop for Galopede as a first dance. The 2 bar, 2 bar, 4 bar A makes it easy to go forward and back and cross over. And yes, it's great as a novice player to play a simple tune at a session and have everyone join in and raise the roof. And maybe the people at the bar even join in and sing Blaydon Races. |
Subject: RE: Old Joe Clark. THE folk song/tune? From: Tattie Bogle Date: 07 Feb 21 - 04:28 AM We also use it as a tune for dancing: last tune for our Virginia Reel set. It does somehow drive the dancers wild, especially when I drop an octave in the left hand on keyboard: thunderous finale! |
Subject: RE: Old Joe Clark. THE folk song/tune? From: reggie miles Date: 07 Feb 21 - 02:42 AM I Went To The Country Fair (Fare Thee Well Jerry Garcia) By Reggie Miles ©2012 All rights reserved (Loosely to the tune of Old Joe Clark) I went to the Country Fair That Teddy Bear's picnic treat Patchouli sweat & tie dye lust To find some vegan meat To find some vegan meat Find some vegan meat to eat To find some vegan meat I went to the Country Fair Hungry for somethin new But every booth I found there Sold organic tofu stew Free range tofu stew Certified organic through n through Free trade tofu stew Fare thee well Jerry Garcia Fare thee well I say I'm bound for ol Veneta town To the Country Fair today Fare thee well Jerry Garcia Fare thee well I'm gone Been walkin 1500 miles Singin this ol song Singin this ol song Singin this song all day long Singin this ol song I went to the Country Fair To laugh n dance n sing So much music filled the air My ears began to ring I went to the Country Fair Hitched till my feet got sore Had so much fun while I was there I'm goin' back for more I'm goin back for more I'm goin back for more, for more I'm goin back for more Fare thee well Jerry Garcia Fare thee well I say I'm bound for ol Veneta town To the Country Fair today Fare thee well Jerry Garcia Fare thee well I'm gone I walked for 1500 miles Jus singin this ol song Singin this ol song Singin this song all day long Woncha sing along Fare thee well Jerry Garcia Fare thee well my friend I've sang my ass off all day long I guess this is the end Fare thee well Jerry Garcia Fare thee well I go I'll sing this line just once mo Then that's the end of my show That's the end of my show It's off to bed I go, I go Cuz that's the end of my show |
Subject: RE: Old Joe Clark. THE folk song/tune? From: reggie miles Date: 07 Feb 21 - 02:20 AM I worked up a slippery bottleneck slide version of the melody and wrote a song (parody?) loosely using this melody structure called, "I Went To The Country Fair." |
Subject: RE: Old Joe Clark. THE folk song/tune? From: Lighter Date: 21 Apr 20 - 07:00 PM People who should know better (including the editors of the Ballad Index) take at face value the claim that "Old Joe Clark" "dates from" 1842. The sole reference given (perhaps taken from Cox's "Folk Songs of the South, 1925) is to Halliwell-Phillips's "The Nursery Rhymes of England "(London, 1842). But here's the entire nursery rhyme on p.135 (with no suggestion that it was ever sung): WHEN I was a little boy my mammy kept me in, But now I am a great boy I’m fit to serve the king; I can hand a musket, and I can smoke a pipe, And I can kiss a pretty girl at twelve o'clock at night. Not exactly "Old Joe Clark," is it? OK, "When I was a little boy .... But now I am a great boy" is a lot like "When I was a little boy...But now I am a great big boy." All that suggests is that the creator of the corresponding OJC stanza knew this rhyme or something similar. But "OJC" is a whole lot more than those two phrases, and that's not even counting the distinctive tune. The earliest ref. to OJC I've unearthed is this, from the Asheville [N.C.] Daily Citizen (July 8, 1892), p.1: “At night, the banjos were brought out, and to the strains of ‘Old Joe Clarke’ and ‘Pretty Little Liza Jane’ and ‘I’m gwine down to town,’ the puncheons resounded to the tread of the ‘dancers dancing in tune.’” All of the few references to the tune/song before 1910 seem to be from North Carolina papers. No texts or musical transcriptions, unfortunately. |
Subject: RE: Old Joe Clark. THE folk song/tune? From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch Date: 12 Aug 18 - 03:32 AM Lyr Add: Miss Lucy Long (minstrel) Lyr Req: Rock the Cradle Joe |
Subject: RE: Old Joe Clark. THE folk song/tune? From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch Date: 12 Aug 18 - 03:23 AM Guest: “Which came first? Chicken or the egg?” Rooster. Eliza Jane; Lucy Long; Old Joe and Pomp (Pompey) were all stock minstrel characters pretty much from the start (c.1840.) “Many are the verses and variations to Liza Jane, but "Old Joe Clark" is the banner song for length. "There are one hundred and forty-four verses to 'Old Joe Clark,' though I don't know all of them," modestly affirmed a popular "caller" in Nolan County.” 46. OLD JOE CLARK. Old Joe Clark is dead and gone, I hope he's doin well(1) He made me wear the ball and chain Till it made my ankles swell. Chorus— Round and round, old Joe Clark, Round and round, I say; Round and round, old Joe Clark, I ain't got long to stay. Eighteen pounds of meat a week, Bacon (candy) here to sell, How can a young man stay at home, When the gals all look so well. Old Joe Clark had a big white house, Sixteen stories high, And every room in that old house Was filled with chicken pie. Old Joe Clark is mad at me, I'll tell you the reason why, I went down to old Joe's house And ate all his chicken pie. Old Joe Clark had a possum dog So blind he couldn't see; He treed a chigger on a log, And thought it was a flea. (1) In more boisterous gatherings a more profane wish is expressed in this line. [Thompson, Stith, ed., Some Texas Party-Play Songs, Publications of the Folk-Lore Society of Texas, No.1, (Austin, 1916, p.32)] |
Subject: RE: Old Joe Clark. THE folk song/tune? From: Joe_F Date: 10 Aug 18 - 06:04 PM Marcia: I used to go the lively monthly sings organized by Don Duncan. Sandy Sheehan of Sandy's Music lived there. It was done in by real estate in 2000 (I think).f |
Subject: RE: Old Joe Clark. THE folk song/tune? From: GUEST,Marcia Palmater Date: 09 Aug 18 - 10:34 PM This thread wouldn't be complete without a mention of the musical coop house that existed for many years in Cambridge, Mass. Old Joe Clark was a 3-story Victorian; you had to be a musician to live there. Traveling musicians would crash there and many musicians, including Pete Seeger, owned shares in the house. Many times when the phone rang it would be answered by someone grabbing the nearest instrument and playing a few bars of the tune. |
Subject: RE: Old Joe Clark. THE folk song/tune? From: Lighter Date: 09 Aug 18 - 06:19 PM The earliest reference I've seen to the tune/song is from the "Asheville [N.C.] Daily Citizen" of July 8, 1892: “At night, the banjos were brought out, and to the strains of ‘Old Joe Clarke’ and ‘Pretty Little Liza Jane’ and ‘I’m gwine down to town,’ the puncheons resounded to the tread of the ‘dancers dancing in tune.’” |
Subject: RE: Old Joe Clark. THE folk song/tune? From: GUEST Date: 09 Aug 18 - 11:16 AM I picked up a copy of Mother Goose Rhymes, and there were the same words used in Old Joe Clark, Little Liza Jane, Whoa, Mule, Whoa, etc.. Which came first? The chicken or the egg? |
Subject: RE: Old Joe Clark. THE folk song/tune? From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 18 Oct 08 - 04:01 PM Unless one is a square dancer or fiddler, or interested in old American folk or popular music, guest bbcw is probably correct. |
Subject: RE: Old Joe Clark. THE folk song/tune? From: GUEST,The black belt caterpillar wrestler Date: 18 Oct 08 - 12:55 PM Well, I've just come across this thread and looked at the original question and thought NO. I've been going to folk clubs and festivals since 1972 (loads of them in England and Wales) and I've never heard any of the word sets mentioned above. In fact I've never heard any words set to the tune and I've only heard the tune in the last 10 years. Perhaps it is an example of a tune/song that is well known to a subset of folkies but it is certainly not universal. |
Subject: RE: Old Joe Clark. THE folk song/tune? From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 18 Oct 08 - 08:56 AM Verses in Randolph-Legman, heard in MO, c. 1895: I went up on the mountain top To give my horn a toot, Thought I heard Lucindy say Come on with your jackass root! Old Joe Clark growed lots of corn, An' he et so much of it, Corn bread, ash cake, hominy too, Tumblebugs had to shuck his shit. Vol. 1, p. 428. Many more in that vein. |
Subject: RE: Old Joe Clark. THE folk song/tune? From: NormanD Date: 18 Oct 08 - 06:37 AM I saw a reference above to "Sex & Drugs & Rock 'n' Roll" and how they are melodically similar. The story is that Ian Dury took the tune from "Old Joe Clark" after haring Charlie Haden's bass solo on Ornette Coleman's "Ramblin" - he breaks into OJC. Now that's what I call living tradition - a folk song becomes a jazz solo becomes a rock anthem and a verbal quotation. |
Subject: RE: Old Joe Clark. THE folk song/tune? From: Azizi Date: 17 Oct 08 - 07:43 PM Btw, GUEST,Jim, kudos on your updated verses for this song as found in your 24 Sep 08 - 09:36 PM and your 17 Oct 08 - 01:12 AM post! I'm guessing that the "pig" in your last post comes from the state of Alaska {and I'm praying that she goes back there soon}. |
Subject: RE: Old Joe Clark. THE folk song/tune? From: Azizi Date: 17 Oct 08 - 07:22 PM There may be no way of ever confirming this, but I wonder if a verse of "Old Joe Clark" was the source for a contemporary British playground rhyme? Here's the verse from "Old Joe Clark": Old Joe Clark, the preacher's son, Preached all over the plain, The only text he ever knew Was "high low jack and the game". -snip- Here's a post from another Mudcat thread about a version of the British children's handclap rhyme: Subject: RE: Gigalo & other children's rhymes &cheers From: Jeanie - PM Date: 15 Apr 07 - 05:44 PM Very interesting how these rhymes etc. are spread across continents. Version of the above, called "Jackalo", as a handclapping song, played by middle-class white British girls in private school, Essex, just outside Greater London, end 20th/beginning 21st century: My name is [each partner holds hands together, palm to palm, as if "praying", then each pair of hands brushes the other] Hands now parted. Partners face each other. [Whilst the rest of the song is sung, left hand is held straight out, as if waiting to shake hands. Right hands meet, high and low, to match the rhythm of the song]: Hi, low, Jackalo, Jackalo, Jackalo, Hi, low, Jackalo, Jackalo and HIGH ! - jeanie thread.cfm?threadid=100807&messages=28 ** My theory is that the American children's handclap rhyme or children's foot stomping cheer "Gigalo" {"Jigalo"} might have come from that British {and other countries'?} children's handclap rhyme. A verse from that "Gigalo" {"Jigalo"} rhyme/cheer is My hands up high My feet down low And this is the way I gig a lo {see the link above for the complete rhyme/cheer} ** So, according to my theory, both of these children's playground rhymes would have their source in a line which refers to a card game. I know very little about cards. Can anyone tell me which game or games of cards "high low jack" or "high low jack and the game" refer to? . I'd love to have feedback on this theory that a line from "Old Joe Clark" might have been a source of these children's rhymes. Thanks. |
Subject: RE: Old Joe Clark. THE folk song/tune? From: Mr Red Date: 17 Oct 08 - 03:36 AM As a very keen ceilidh dancer I can tell you it is not only popular with ceilidh bands but they all do it well - if it is simple then they have found ways of embellishing it. And it is very danceable. Add to that the Appalacian display teams that use it. Having said that, I don't recall hearing it as a song. |
Subject: RE: Old Joe Clark. THE folk song/tune? From: GUEST,Jim Date: 17 Oct 08 - 01:12 AM In keeping with the rural nature of many of the verses for Old Joe Clark, how about this one: John McCain, he bought a pig, Cause he loved to hear her squeal, He paraded her around the town In lipstick and high heels. |
Subject: RE: Old Joe Clark. THE folk song/tune? From: topical tom Date: 11 Oct 08 - 08:58 AM Here are a few other verses: He set that old clucking hen Couple of weeks ago. He set her on three buzzard eggs And she hatched out one old crow. Old Joe had a muley cow; She was muley when she was born. It took a jaybird forty years To fly from horn to horn. Old Joe had an old gray mule, Lord but she could travel; Every step that she did take Was up to her knees in gravel. |
Subject: RE: Old Joe Clark. THE folk song/tune? From: GUEST,Jim Date: 10 Oct 08 - 10:36 PM Snuffy, thank you. Thank God for the kindness of strangers, and the elasticity of the English language. John McCain, he bought a house, His wife bought seven more, Wouldn't if be lovely, If he gave one to the poor |
Subject: RE: Old Joe Clark. THE folk song/tune? From: Gene Burton Date: 09 Oct 08 - 02:11 PM A very accomplished version |
Subject: RE: Old Joe Clark. THE folk song/tune? From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 09 Oct 08 - 11:45 AM Old Joe Clark, he built a house Fifteen stories high And ev'ry story in that house Was filled with chicken pie. Dave Oesterreich |
Subject: RE: Old Joe Clark. THE folk song/tune? From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 09 Oct 08 - 11:40 AM Somebody said: Pete Seeger once wrote that if he were to be allowed to sing one song before dying, that would be it. Maybe that's because he'd never get done singing it, and so couldn't die! Dave Oesterreich |
Subject: RE: Old Joe Clark. THE folk song/tune? From: Snuffy Date: 09 Oct 08 - 08:43 AM Elide a load of syllables Then you'll plainly see Just how cosy it can fit: Sh'ain't fit for the pres'dency |
Subject: RE: Old Joe Clark. THE folk song/tune? From: Lonesome EJ Date: 09 Oct 08 - 01:13 AM Guest, Jim writes some pretty good lines That we all understand! But "she ain't fit for the presidency" is a line that just don't scan |
Subject: RE: Old Joe Clark. THE folk song/tune? From: GUEST,Jim Date: 09 Oct 08 - 12:18 AM Another verse for Old Joe Clark Sara Pallin is a babe, On that we all agree, Her politics are a diff'rent thing, She ain't fit for the Presidency. |
Subject: RE: Old Joe Clark. THE folk song/tune? From: GUEST,Jim Date: 25 Sep 08 - 04:15 PM Dick Cheney's a vicious man He shoots his friends for fun I hope to meet him in the street When I'm packin' my squirt gun |
Subject: RE: Old Joe Clark. THE folk song/tune? From: Lonesome EJ Date: 25 Sep 08 - 01:32 AM Old Joe Clark was a CEO wore a thousand dollar suit He left me poor and jumped out the door with his golden parachute |
Subject: RE: Old Joe Clark. THE folk song/tune? From: GUEST,Jim Date: 24 Sep 08 - 09:36 PM New chorus and verses to Old Joe Clark for election time Time to go now, Old George Bush, Time to go, I say You've left our country in a mess Now, please, just go away verse: George scared us into endless war, And spent up all our money, John McCain will do the same, Don't you doubt that, sonny verse: Never elect a Republican, I'll tell you the reason why, He'll lock you up, hide the key Just for getting high |
Subject: RE: Old Joe Clark. THE folk song/tune? From: Dave Hanson Date: 24 Aug 08 - 02:31 AM I went down to Old Joes house, Old Joe wasn't home, Ate all Old Joes meat and bread, And gave the dog a bone. eric |
Subject: RE: Old Joe Clark. THE folk song/tune? From: Jack Campin Date: 23 Aug 08 - 06:14 PM Probably not the one in Mudcat, as it doesn't resemble any version I've heard. Starts more simply, | ABcB AAE2 | ABcB A4 |. Paralleling the words:
|
Subject: RE: Old Joe Clark. THE folk song/tune? From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 23 Aug 08 - 12:50 PM What tune, if any, did Shakespeare have in mind? |
Subject: RE: Old Joe Clark. THE folk song/tune? From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 23 Aug 08 - 09:53 AM That song can be heard using this URL: http://sniff.numachi.com/pages/tiTRULOVNO;ttTRULOVNO.html (left click on MIDI) I don't think there is enough resemblance to Old Joe Clark to claim any link between the tunes. http://www.mudcat.org/@displaysong.cfm?SongID=2742 |
Subject: RE: Old Joe Clark. THE folk song/tune? From: Jack Campin Date: 22 Aug 08 - 03:04 PM The tune is remarkably similar to the Elizabethan "How should I your true love know?" as sung by Ophelia in "Hamlet". Any sightings of the melody in the intervening 300 years? |
Subject: RE: Old Joe Clark. THE folk song/tune? From: GUEST,Josh Date: 21 Aug 08 - 02:48 PM I have been playing a version of this song that I believe I based almost entirely on Woody Guthrie's version on the 2-disc Smithsonian/Alan Lomax recordings. I'm almost positive I got these lyrics in particular from his interpretation of it. Now that I google the song, I don't find some these two particular verses, but I like the old fashioned message in it. Woody seems to have a pretty original rendering which isn't based on any of the historical facts I find about Joe Clark, but based on the theme of those recordings, one would infer it was the Okie version of the song. He only seems to be playing an excerpt at Lomax's request. Old Joe Clark had a dog as blind as he could be Chase a possum up a hollow log, you'd swear that dog could see Old Joe Clark killed a girl and threw her in the branch Old Joe Clark's gonna get hanged, ain't no other chance. In between, he also does the often repeated verse about the cat in the buttermilk jar, and he says in kind of a break "Fare thee well, Old Joe Clark, Goodbye Betty Brown" which I love because it seems dark and ominous when you consider that last lyric. The thing I like about this version really is that it seems to make a statement about how violence towards women should be punished. |
Subject: RE: Old Joe Clark. THE folk song/tune? From: GUEST,Paul Castle Date: 17 Jan 04 - 12:13 PM Q wrote: >'Joe Clark' cannot be referred or traced to anyone, no connections can be made. Does Lisa Clark's extensive research into the Clark family history - or the Kentucky Historical Society State Marker - or Bradley Kincaid's quite similar Clay County connections - or Pete Seeger's assertion (in 'How to Play the 5-string banjo') that he was "an actual person" not make you think that - just maybe - they can? Paul |
Subject: RE: Old Joe Clark. THE folk song/tune? From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 16 Jan 04 - 06:19 PM Oops! 25394 is this thread. |
Subject: RE: Old Joe Clark. THE folk song/tune? From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 16 Jan 04 - 06:16 PM Old Joe Clark goes back a long ways (pub. 1842, "Nursery Rhymes," Halliwell) and probably older. 'Joe Clark' cannot be referred or traced to anyone, no connections can be made. I prefer this one: Old Joe Clark is a preacher, He preached all over the plain, The highest text he ever took Was high, low, jack and the game! (Randolph, Ozark Folk-Songs, vol. 3, p. 124. Many verses, everyone has contributed over the years). See the threads, esp. 25394 and 48624. Old Joe Clark 25394 Old Joe Clark 48624 |
Subject: RE: Old Joe Clark. THE folk song/tune? From: Sandina Date: 16 Jan 04 - 05:07 PM Anyone notice the melodic resemblance to "Sex & Drugs & Rock & Roll?" |
Subject: RE: Old Joe Clark. THE folk song/tune? From: GUEST,Paul Castle Date: 16 Jan 04 - 08:16 AM Bud Savoie wrote (about Old Joe Clark) on 14 Sep 00 >Pete Seeger once wrote that if he were to be allowed to sing one song before dying, that would be it. I recently came across this quote whilst researching a web page - see Old Joe Clark (click on 'Biography / Song Research) and wondered if Bud (or anyone else) could confirm the reference - ie publication and date - for this quote. Also, if anyone has additional background information/comments, please post. Very best Paul The Rosinators http://www.rosinators.com |
Subject: RE: Old Joe Clark. THE folk song/tune? From: GUEST Date: 07 Sep 01 - 08:40 PM Dude, Have you heard Sam Bushes version? it folks! |
Subject: RE: Old Joe Clark. THE folk song/tune? From: GUEST,Mudweasel Date: 07 Sep 01 - 07:42 PM I love references to the "folk process". As the joke goes in my band, we all know what a food processor does to food. RRRRRRRZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!!!!!!!!!!!!! We're in the habit of folk-processing irish and scottish ballads and folk-songs. It almost always involves electricity and an increase in tempo. Fun! --Mudweasel (I keep forgetting that some people do Star of the County Down in waltz time instead of a hyper 6/8) |
Subject: RE: Old Joe Clark. THE folk song/tune? From: Ebbie Date: 06 Sep 01 - 11:30 PM Some of the Joe Clark verses given here seem related to the Carter Family's 'Chawin', Chewin' Gum', i.e. I wouldn't marry a doctor Tell you the reason why He drives around the country And makes the people die.
I wouldn't marry a lawyer I haven't heard them sung in Joe Clark. Not to say they wouldn't fit. Ebbie |
Subject: RE: Old Joe Clark. THE folk song/tune? From: Geoff the Duck Date: 06 Sep 01 - 08:45 PM refresh |
Subject: RE: Old Joe Clark. THE folk song/tune? From: CamiSu Date: 21 Sep 00 - 07:22 AM Just realised I hadn't seen this one that made the most sense after I learned to play Pitch. Joe Clark was a preacher's son, Preached all o'er the plain, The only text that he did know, Was High, Low, Jack, and Game. And the bloomin' song has been going through my head for a day now! |
Subject: RE: Old Joe Clark. THE folk song/tune? From: GUEST,mag Date: 20 Sep 00 - 10:53 PM Oops, I was thinking of "Old Dan Tucker," above. Sorry |
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