Sound Stage Equip Question

Subject: Sound Stage Equip Question
From: Jed at Work
Date: 18 Sep 00 - 11:29 AM

I've spent the last two years building up sound stage equipment for a medium sized, quality sound system. I have made the major component investments, at this point, but have a few more things to get. In particular, right now I am looking to get several DI boxes. This may seem like a small issue, but there are lots to choose from.

I would like to get a quality piece of electronics, without any of the frills and features that many specialty boxes are offering. That is, I simply interested in the Hi to Low impedence, balanced output conversion. I want a unit that is clean, and capable of surviving the rigors of the road.

Who makes 'em, who supplies 'em (hopefully on the web) and who has experience with 'em?

Subject: RE: Sound Stage Equip Question
From: GUEST,Alex
Date: 19 Sep 00 - 12:19 AM

DOD make some of the cheapest DI boxes ($30-$150). Basically, you are simply dealing with a transformer that converts high impedance instrument signals (unbalanced) to low impedance (balanced XLR) so that you can send it several hundred feet to a mixing board and still be able to plug another cord into an onstage amp. The main thing you need is a "ground lift" switch so that you can eliminate those 60Hz hums caused by the stage 110v circuit and amplifiers being on a different 110v circuit from the mixing console. If you don't need the feed to the onstage amplifier, you can get a high/low matching transformer (High 1/4" to low XLR) for $10-$15 from Radio Shack.

Subject: RE: Sound Stage Equip Question
From: Mooh
Date: 19 Sep 00 - 03:13 PM

Phantom powered ones are nice. Avoids the problem and hassle of keeping batteries around and fresh. Mooh.

Subject: RE: Sound Stage Equip Question
From: Jed at Work
Date: 19 Sep 00 - 03:22 PM

Phantom power's a problem wit the dynamic mics I am using, and I don't think I have a chooice of phantom or not per channel. External power is npot a bad idea, if possible, since we sue a number of devices on stage (tuners, pre-amps, etc). For now I carry lottsa extra batteries!

Since I am not running the signal back to poweramps, but rather using the DI to run a an acoustic instrument pick-up signal to the board, it sounds like I have the option of not worrying about a "ground lift" - I do have 4 lines on the snake for 1/4" input/output, if I choose to send a line level to power amps for, say monitors.

Who's DOD?

Subject: RE: Sound Stage Equip Question
From: Lena
Date: 19 Sep 00 - 10:42 PM

Hi there, BSS DI ( Broken Syren System, made un UK) boxes are probably the best on the market, they offer road resistance and affidability; maybe the more expensive but the most reliable. Anothere good brand is SVC ( France. But I reccomend BSS also because they are easy to buy and sell second hand. You should get active DI boxes and avoid cheap brands because they don't last long on the road.

(that wasn't me!!!It was my dad,I got him on the keyboard.I suggest you trust him.Lena)

Subject: RE: Sound Stage Equip Question
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 19 Sep 00 - 11:02 PM

Jed, Whirlwind IMP 2 Direct boxes. Hi-Lo Tanformers. I use a couple of 'em. About $30 each, and never had a problem. All the best.
Seamus

Subject: RE: Sound Stage Equip Question
From: JedMarum
Date: 20 Sep 00 - 09:45 AM

Thanks, all.

Subject: RE: Sound Stage Equip Question
From: Mooh
Date: 20 Sep 00 - 10:44 AM

Jed. Phantom power does not affect mics which don't require it. That's why many boards simply have it as an all or nothing option. The industry standard 57s and 58s and as far as I'm aware, all others like them, do not require power and are not affected if it's turned on.

Anyone out there have technological knowledge of this?

Mooh.

Subject: RE: Sound Stage Equip Question
From: JedMarum
Date: 20 Sep 00 - 11:34 AM

I'd like to know if that's for sure about phantom power ... because I have been told otherwise. I suspect you're right though. It makes sense. I'll research my board's tech info.

Subject: RE: Sound Stage Equip Question
From: Whistle Stop
Date: 20 Sep 00 - 03:11 PM

Jed, I've heard the same thing you have about phantom power. I would dearly like to know the truth of the matter. The user's manuals for my Mackie mixing board (which offers "all or nothing" phantom power) and my Roland hard disk recorder (same) both caution against using the phantom power if you are also going to be plugging in non-phantom-powered microphones or other equipment. I'd be thrilled if I could ignore this warning, but haven't dared to try. Any techies out there know the real story?

As for DI's, my favorite for acoustic guitar is the SansAmp Acoustic DI. It's pricey (street price around $175.00), but it provides lots of tone-shaping capabilities, phantom power if you need it, an effects loop, and various other features. the bells and whistles are nice, but I use it for the tone -- it makes any onboard acoustic guitar pickup sound much better. But as I say, it's a lot to spend, especially if you need several. Good luck.

Subject: RE: Sound Stage Equip Question
From: Jed at Work
Date: 20 Sep 00 - 05:00 PM

hmm, I haven't found the techie answer yet from my board notes ... and the tone shaping qualities sound good, except I have all that at the board, and a (hopefully) someone there who not only knows how to shape it, but can hear it through the house, too. I do have a fishman pre-amp DI with some good shaping and anti-feedback features, but I suspect for this application (general acoustic instrument pick-ups, used in sound stage setting) I'll be wanting a pretty vanilla DI - in fact, I also need 6 or more of 'em, so need to keep the cost low (preferably very low)!

Subject: RE: Sound Stage Equip Question
From: Mooh
Date: 20 Sep 00 - 08:25 PM

Well, I know the phantom power thing mentioned earlier works with 3 different Mackie boards and a Yorkville and a Yamaha p.a. I've used within the last couple of years. I honestly don't see how the small amount of current involved could hurt a passive mic, but I should get a pro's advice.

Hmmm...Mooh.

Subject: RE: Sound Stage Equip Question
From: Lena
Date: 21 Sep 00 - 07:46 AM

I must add that what my father defined as a bit expensive actually means AUS $ 700 each.But as far as I know,he toured with them around the world for a number of years,so that should cover the price.As for the technical question...well,he's not around anymore and the only sound engineering term I know the meaning of is 'PAN POT'....

Subject: RE: Sound Stage Equip Question
From: AKS
Date: 21 Sep 00 - 08:01 AM

Mooh, here's a pro's advice re phantom powering:

Any dynamic mic with BALANCED output can be plugged safely into an input with phantom power on.

UNbalanced outputs - high imp. mics, elguitars & pickups, keyboards etc - require different approach, that's propably why Mackie and Roland make caution against using 'non-phantomable' mics when phantom's on. Yet the risk of damaging the mixing console is not very high because all modern gadgetry are equipped with safety resistors against shortcuts at inputs.

AKS

(oh, to be honest, the pro is not I, but a friend of mine who's been some 30 years at the business of playing and repairing electric instruments, sound enforcement and recording)

Subject: RE: Sound Stage Equip Question
From: JedMarum
Date: 21 Sep 00 - 08:52 AM

... so let me be sure I'm straight about this; my low impedence mics, don't care if there is phantom power turned on, and my quarter inch high impedence inputs, are all coming in through a DI box, so they are protected as well. Correct?

Subject: RE: Sound Stage Equip Question
From: Mooh
Date: 21 Sep 00 - 12:56 PM

Jed, I think so, but it wouldn't hurt to get the manufacturer's opinion. More reasons to buy road tested gear I guess.

Thanks AKS.

Mooh.