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Lyr Add: Plooman Laddies

Wolfgang Hell 19 Aug 97 - 05:08 AM
John Nolan 19 Aug 97 - 10:18 PM
Susan-Marie 20 Aug 97 - 12:04 PM
GUEST 08 Apr 10 - 01:31 PM
Dave MacKenzie 08 Apr 10 - 03:31 PM
GUEST,Allan Connochie 08 Apr 10 - 03:59 PM
GUEST,EKanne 08 Apr 10 - 07:18 PM
BobKnight 08 Apr 10 - 08:11 PM
akenaton 08 Apr 10 - 08:35 PM
Dave MacKenzie 09 Apr 10 - 04:31 AM
BobKnight 09 Apr 10 - 06:45 AM
Dave MacKenzie 09 Apr 10 - 01:02 PM
akenaton 09 Apr 10 - 01:35 PM
BobKnight 09 Apr 10 - 01:39 PM
Dave MacKenzie 09 Apr 10 - 02:40 PM
BobKnight 09 Apr 10 - 03:14 PM
Scorpio 09 Apr 10 - 07:09 PM
Dave MacKenzie 09 Apr 10 - 07:23 PM
BobKnight 10 Apr 10 - 12:06 AM
Jim Dixon 02 Sep 10 - 11:42 AM
Jim Dixon 02 Sep 10 - 12:26 PM
Fred McCormick 08 Sep 10 - 03:30 PM
GUEST,annetta (nicky) stewart 08 Feb 11 - 12:00 AM
BobKnight 08 Feb 11 - 04:44 AM
BobKnight 09 Feb 11 - 08:49 AM
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Subject: Lyr Add: PLOOMAN LADDIES
From: Wolfgang Hell
Date: 19 Aug 97 - 05:08 AM

A song I like very much. I know a slightly different version by The Exiles, but here is the version as printed in N. Buchan, P. Hall, The Scottish Folksinger (one obvious error mended, one possible error indicated):

Plooman Laddies

1. Doon yonder den, there's a plooman lad
an' some simmer's day he'll be a' my ain.

An' sing laddie-aye, an' sing laddie-o
the plooman laddies are a' the go.

2. I love his teeth an' I love his skin
I love the very cairt he hurls in...

3. Doon yonder den I coulda gotten a merchant,
bit a' his stuff wisna worth a groat...

4. Doon yonder den I coulda gotten a miller,
bit the smell o' dust widda deen me ill...

5. It's ilka time I gyang tae the stack,
I hear his wheep gie the ither crack...

6. I see him comin' fae (frae?) yonder toon,
wi' a' his ribbons hingin' roon an' roon...

7. An' noo she's gotten her plooman lad,
as bare as ever he left the ploo...

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: Add: Plooman Laddies
From: John Nolan
Date: 19 Aug 97 - 10:18 PM

Wolfgang - I'm not sure if this is a resurrection of an old thread or a new one, so pardon me if I repeat someone, but another version, recorded by the Clutha, has verse 3. something like: "Could hae got me the merchant in yonder toon, But all his gear it wisna worth a groat." Then your verse 4 went: "I could hae got me the miller doon in yonder mill, But, oh, the stour (dust) it wud hae garred me ill." (An early recognition of air pollution). Then there's: "I could hae got me the gardener by yonder tree, But, ach, the smell o' thyme, it sickened me"...I agree, it's a tremendous song, especially when sung slowly with loads of people to harmonize. And what a chorus. Yeehaa!


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Subject: RE: Add: Plooman Laddies
From: Susan-Marie
Date: 20 Aug 97 - 12:04 PM

Do either of you know if Dougie McLean has recorded this song? I once heard a song by him about the "PloughBOY Laddies". The lyrics Wolfgang posted seem to fit my vauge memory of the song, except that I remember ploughBOY rather than ploughMAN. If Dougie does do this song, any idea which recording has it?


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Subject: RE: Add: Plooman Laddies
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Apr 10 - 01:31 PM

Can anyone give me an indication of when this song emerged from the oral tradition?


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Subject: Lyr Add: PLOOMAN LADDIES
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 08 Apr 10 - 03:31 PM

PLOOMAN LADDIES

Doon yonder den there's a plooman lad,
An' some simmer's day he'll be a' my ain;

An' sing laddie-oh, an' sing laddie-aye,
The plooman laddies are a' the go.

I love his teeth and I love his skin -
I love the verra cairt he hurls in:

Doon yonder den I coulda gotten a merchant,
Bit a' his stuff wisna worth a groat.

Doon yonder den I coulda gotten a mullart,
Bit the smell o' dust widda deen me ill.

It's ilka time I gyang tae the stack,
I hear his wheep gie the ither crack.

I see him comin' fae yonder toon,
Wi' a' his ribbons hingin' roon' an' roon'.

An' noo she's gotten her plooman lad,
As bare as ever he left the ploo.

Doon yonder den there's a plooman lad,
An' some simmer's day he'll be a' my ain.


As collected by Arthur Argo from Lucy Stewart. Printed in CHAPBOOK vol 2, no 1, p3.

This was the late 60's, but the song was well known by then. As far as I know, Lucy, from Fetterangus, was first recorded in the 50's, and subsequent singers changed the first line of the chorus.


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Subject: RE: Add: Plooman Laddies
From: GUEST,Allan Connochie
Date: 08 Apr 10 - 03:59 PM

A song called "The Plooman Laddie" is in "Ord's Bothy Songs And Ballads" the collection first being published in 1930 though it gives no notes as to the antiquity of the song. It is quite long to type out and I couldn't find it on the net to paste but some corresponding verses to those above are

As my plooman lad gangs roon the toun
Wi a' his irons ringin roon
And oh, he is a bonnie loon
And he whistles when he sees me

    Then it's oh, oh, oh, it's bonnie oh
    To hear him cry hup hi and wo
    An mak his horses straight to go
    What's better than a plooman


I micht hae got a miller in yonder mill
But the smell o the dust wad hae dune me ill
I love my plooman, I love him still
I'm for a plooman laddie

I micht hae got a merchant in yonder shop
But a' his goods they're nae worth a grot
And for himsel, he's a drunken sot
He's nae like my plooman laddie


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Subject: RE: Add: Plooman Laddies
From: GUEST,EKanne
Date: 08 Apr 10 - 07:18 PM

Further to Dave's response, Arthur Argo was always in favour of Lucy's non-rhyming version of the chorus, which seems not unreasonable as several of verses are equally rhyme free! I learned it from a tape of Lucy's singing, but had thought that the merchant verse had "But a' his gear wisna worth a groat" for the second line, which I actually prefer because of the alliteration.
And much later I learned the Ord version quoted above because it used the tune of 'The Rigs o' Rye' and the "Hup, hi and whoa" line sat so neatly upon the tune!
Smashing song.


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Subject: RE: Add: Plooman Laddies
From: BobKnight
Date: 08 Apr 10 - 08:11 PM

Lucy was an old woman who had a mic stuck in front of her face and made a mistake, which has gone down into folk history. It's patently obvious that she got it wrong on the occasion it was recorded. To follow the mistake slavishly because she was recognised as a 'scource,' singer is the height of nonsense.


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Subject: RE: Add: Plooman Laddies
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Apr 10 - 08:35 PM

I like the verse....

I love him weel I love nane but him,
I love the very cairt he hurls in


Ah young love! there wis naithing like it   :0)

Ra Tannies


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Subject: RE: Add: Plooman Laddies
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 09 Apr 10 - 04:31 AM

Although I never met Lucy, according to Arthur and others, this is the way that Lucy always sang it, even after it was pointed out to her that singing the line the other way round would rhyme.


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Subject: RE: Add: Plooman Laddies
From: BobKnight
Date: 09 Apr 10 - 06:45 AM

Then she got it wrong. Who in their right mind would write a song and devise a virtual nonsense line which doesn't rhyme with the word it's devised to rhyme with?

Let's examine that shall we?
Sing laddie ae and sing laddie oh,
The plooman laddies are a' the go.

That's what's known as a 'perfect' rhyme, as you are all no doubt aware. Why would any songwriter, even the most unlettered, or untutored, transpose the line to read?

Sing laddie oh, and sing lady ae.
The plooman laddies are a' the go.

No, no, Lucy just got it wrong, and others have followed her slavishly ever since, but wrong is wrong, no matter what the scource.


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Subject: RE: Add: Plooman Laddies
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 09 Apr 10 - 01:02 PM

I find your use of the word "wrong" offensive. It's quite possible that the original was partially anglicised from

An' sing laddie-oh, an' sing laddie-ae,
The plooman laddies are a' the gae.

(without a single mention of ladies)

Other singers have not followed Lucy slavishly. They have made a decision to respect the source rather than assume they know better.


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Subject: RE: Add: Plooman Laddies
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Apr 10 - 01:35 PM

Get a grip lads, Its a great folk song....is that no' what matters.


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Subject: RE: Add: Plooman Laddies
From: BobKnight
Date: 09 Apr 10 - 01:39 PM

Aren't Lucy and the scource the same thing in this instance?

Sorry 'lady' should have been laddie - a typo.


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Subject: RE: Add: Plooman Laddies
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 09 Apr 10 - 02:40 PM

Precisely.


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Subject: RE: Add: Plooman Laddies
From: BobKnight
Date: 09 Apr 10 - 03:14 PM

She was my mother's cousin - I can't remember ever meeting her though. Different generation.


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Subject: RE: Add: Plooman Laddies
From: Scorpio
Date: 09 Apr 10 - 07:09 PM

Go, Akenaton! Credentials do not make a performance.


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Subject: RE: Add: Plooman Laddies
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 09 Apr 10 - 07:23 PM

Maybe, Bob, you could fill us in on Lucy's reputation, the role of music within your family, has anyone else a version of the song, anything else you feel like adding.


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Subject: RE: Add: Plooman Laddies
From: BobKnight
Date: 10 Apr 10 - 12:06 AM

As I said, I never met her. I heard she was bit of an eccentric, a 'one off,' and that's about it. Elizabeth Stewart, her niece, who also lived in Fetterangus where Lucy lived, probably knows as much about her as anyone. Lucy's brother, George Robertson Stewart, was the man who gave Jimmy McBeath his version of "Tramps and Hawkers," as well as many of Jimmy's other songs.

All of my musical background is from the Stewart side. Most of my cousins played instruments. Fiddle, guitar, piano, piano accordion, and most of all, bagpipes. Most of my mother's brothers and sisters either played an instrument or sang, and most could knock out a tune on the chanter.

My granny (Lucy's auntie) probably had a version of the song, but she died long before I became really interested in Folk and Trad music about 5-6 years ago. I was a teenager in the sixties - too interested in rock music, and ended up playing bass guitar in umpteen bands, and it was all lost for me at that stage. My mother(85)was a good singer, but sadly can't remember anything now.

My mother had other cousins significant in the folk world. Jeannie Robertson, Lizzie Higgins, Alec Stewart (Belle's husband) from the Stewarts of Blair,Sheila Stewart, Stanley Robertson, and of course, the aforementioned Elizabeth Stewart.

Any questions - ask away, but I don't know that much. I'm slowly putting 2+2 together in a lot of cases, but you have to understand this is a huge family with many branches and finding out who is related to who, and where the connections are, is not easy. Especially since they all seem to have the same traditional names. For instance, I have at least 4-5 cousins called David Stewart.

Best wishes - Bob


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE PLOOMAN LADDIE (David Mitchell Smith)
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 02 Sep 10 - 11:42 AM

This is a poem, not a song. Perhaps it has never been set to music, but it looks worthy of it.

From Fair City Chimes: A Book of Verse by David Mitchell Smith (Perth: Wood & Son, 1898), page 28:


THE PLOOMAN LADDIE.

Oh, I'm a happy lassie,
But my heart is no' my ain,
For a bonnie fair-hair'd laddie
Cam' stappin' doon the glen;
Cam' stappin' doon the lang glen,
Wi' buttons at his knee;
An' oh! the plooman laddie,
He's stown my heart frae me!

It's I had lovers plenty,
But my heart was in a creel,
For I downa gie my luve to a',
An' nane I likit weel;
Oh, nane I likit fondly,
Till, wi' his glamourie,
The fair-haired plooman laddie
He staul my heart frae me!

Blithe Jock, the muirlan' shepherd,
O, he courted me fu' fain!
An' his dancin' an' his daffin'
Were the pride o' a' the glen;
The pride o' a' the lang glen—
An' sair he teasëd me;
But the fair-hair'd plooman laddie
He's set my heart a-gee!

Rab Ha', the roysterin' laird's son,
He snooved aboot me lang,
But I cudna bide his silly clash,
Nor yet his sillier sang—
Nor yet his silly sang, I trow,
That spak' o' love to me,
For 'neath his braggin' words I kent
He'd little luve to gi'e!

Oh! I'm a happy lassie,
An' my breist is beatin' fain
To meet my fair-hair'd laddie
Come stappin' doon the glen—
Come stappin' doon the lang glen,
Wi' buttons at his knee;
For, oh! the plooman laddie,
He's a' the warl' to me.


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Subject: Lyr Add: COMMEND ME TO THE PLOOMAN (Grieg-Duncan)
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 02 Sep 10 - 12:26 PM

From Logie O'Buchan: An Aberdeenshire Pastoral of Last Century By Gavin Greig (Aberdeen: D. Wyllie & Son, 1899), page 118:


THE PLOOMAN.

O weel I like a plooman lad,
Sae weel's I like my plooman;
'Mang a' the lads baith near and far,
Commend me to the plooman.

There's clever chiels at Rattery,
They're unco braw at Haddo;
But O, it's Johnnie I lo'e best,
My bonnie plooman laddie.

O weel I min' on Sandy Gibb,
When first I fee'd at Essie;
O Sandy was a lad to coort,
He ca'd me his dear lassie.

And syne I liket Geordie Rae,
He was a handsome fellow;
But he gaed aff wi' Kirsty Broon,
They're bidin' at Craigellie.

But noo I've Johnnie for my jo,
And him I lo'e richt dearly;
And we will mairry at Whitsunday,
And syne we'll ne'er think weary.

For weel I like my plooman lad,
Sae weel's I like my plooman;
'Mang a' the lads baith near and far,
Commend me to the plooman.

The narrative in this book says this was sung, but it gives no tune, and I have been unable to identify the original tune. I believe the song is in "The Grieg-Duncan Folk Song Collection" where it is called Song 451: COMMEND ME TO THE PLOOMAN, but Google Books does not allow me to view that book.

Burns' song THE PLOUGHMAN also contains the line "Commend me to the ploughman" but the rest of the song is quite different.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Plooman Laddies
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 08 Sep 10 - 03:30 PM

Bloody hell Bob. With a family background like that I'd charge people a tenner a time just to say hello to me!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Plooman Laddies
From: GUEST,annetta (nicky) stewart
Date: 08 Feb 11 - 12:00 AM

hi my name is Annetta hayward use to be Stewart i am trying to locate more of my family in scotland and you say your related to lucy. so am i.
my father was robert his mum was Jean dad donald sisters Francis Elizabeth and Jane, and Lucy was his aunt, i would love to here more about my extended family thank you for your time.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Plooman Laddies
From: BobKnight
Date: 08 Feb 11 - 04:44 AM

Hi Annetta, Please contact me at bobknight@knightfolk.com where we can swap details. I know Elizabeth well, and see her at least a couple of times a year. I met Jane a few times, but that was many years ago,her married name is Urquhart. Funnily enough, I was listening to a recording of your grandmother Jean, telling stories on the School of Scottish Studies website yesterday. I didn't know her, but she was named after my grandmother, Jean Stewart. Anyway, I look forward to hearing from you.

Bob


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Plooman Laddies
From: BobKnight
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 08:49 AM

Annetta, I've spoken via e-mail with Elizabeth, and if you contact me I will pass on her e-mail address to you. Bob


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