Subject: Rap her to bank - The Watersons From: bobby's girl Date: 28 Sep 00 - 03:35 PM In the words of "Rap her to Bank" as sung by The Watersons amongst others Bank is either the foot or head of the colliery (Coal mine to non-UK readers) shaft. From seeing a winding engine indicator dial in a museum I think it is the shaft-foot. Can anyone confirm this please. |
Subject: RE: Rap her to bank - The Watersons From: bill\sables Date: 28 Sep 00 - 04:09 PM Hi Bobby's Girl "Bank" is the surface, the pit head,or top of the shaft |
Subject: RE: Rap her to bank - The Watersons From: oggie Date: 28 Sep 00 - 06:28 PM The bank is the surface, 'rapping' is the knock given by the man in charge of the cage at the foot of the shaft that the cage was ready for hauling. Originally he knocked on the wall of the shaft but in later years a bell or buzzer was used. In the lifthead at Ironbridge Gorge Museum the full instructions and codes are preserved on one of the boards. All the best Steve |
Subject: RE: Rap her to bank - The Watersons From: Garry Gillard Date: 28 Sep 00 - 11:53 PM Thanks for these notes, which I've added to the https://mainlynorfolk.info/watersons/songs/raphertobank.html for the song. Gaz |
Subject: RE: Rap her to bank - The Watersons From: bill\sables Date: 29 Sep 00 - 02:32 PM Gaz, The first time I heard this song was by Jack Elliot of Birtley Co Durham. I think it was recorded on his LP on Leader "Jack Elliot of Birtley". According to A.L.Lloyd in Come all ye bold miners, it was collected by W. Toyn from Henry Nattress of Low Fell Gateshead in 1962 Jack usually sang it with the song "Jowl Jowl and Listen Lad" |
Subject: RE: Rap her to bank - The Watersons From: bobby's girl Date: 29 Sep 00 - 06:34 PM OK we got it 180 degrees out. Thanks all. |
Subject: Lyr Add: RAP HER TO BANK (from The Watersons) From: Genie Date: 27 Jul 02 - 03:49 PM RAP HER TO BANK Chorus: My father used to call the turn Chorus And when that awful day arrived, Final chorus: |
Subject: RE: Rap her to bank - The Watersons From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 27 Jul 02 - 04:02 PM In the DT, as RAP 'ER TE BANK Always the problem with dialect songs, unless you know what the likely alternatives are. |
Subject: RE: Rap her to bank - The Watersons From: vectis Date: 27 Jul 02 - 08:42 PM Is that stumbling Jack Elliot? So called because he had a damaged leg. |
Subject: RE: Rap her to bank - The Watersons From: GUEST,Gurney Date: 28 Jul 02 - 04:18 AM From the cheer on the record, I thought he was stumbling because of the lunatic soup partaken of. |
Subject: RE: Rap her to bank - The Watersons From: GUEST,Eddie Date: 01 Apr 07 - 11:07 AM Bank is the top of the shaft, the surface |
Subject: RE: Rap her to bank - The Watersons From: Leadfingers Date: 01 Apr 07 - 11:33 AM For the uninitiated there is a Live Recording (Royal Festival Hall 1965) - Jack Elliott is introduced and limps on stage with a Plaster on one leg due to and ankle injury . Hi first words are " Not Rambling Jack Elliott , Stumbling Jack Elliott" |
Subject: RE: Rap her to bank - The Watersons From: GUEST Date: 06 Oct 08 - 08:57 AM Walter Toyn who collected this song was my headmaster at George Street Secondary Modern School at Birtley and there was, if my failing memory serves me, another verse somewhere in the middle but for the life of me I can't recall it...something to do with the deputy. W Toyn collected a great number of old songs which he then passed onto us in music lessons. I just hope other of his pupils can remember them better than I can. |
Subject: RE: Rap her to bank - The Watersons From: BillE Date: 06 Oct 08 - 10:31 AM The Deputy verse may come from 'Jowl and Listen': "The deputy crawls from flat to flat The putter rams the chummins And the man at the face must kna his place Like a mother knas her young un." Source: Notes from Leader LEA 4001 LP 1969 Not forgetting Pete Wood's excellent book - The Elliotts of Birtley - launched at Whitby this year, which gives this verse as: "The deppity craals fre flat te flat, The putter rams the tyum 'uns, And the man at the face must knaa his place Like a mother knaas her young 'uns." Some subtle and interesting differences! Dialect is a wonderful thing... Bill |
Subject: RE: Rap her to bank - The Watersons From: Dave Sutherland Date: 06 Oct 08 - 12:11 PM Hi Guest, I wonder if Mr Toyne taught you "The Unlucky Duck" (listed in the DT as "The Little Duck)? I'd make an assumption that the answer would be no. I should get my copy of "The Elliotts of Birtley" when Pete comes down to Grand Union Folk, Barrow on Soar in a couple of weeks time. |
Subject: RE: Rap her to bank - The Watersons From: Dave (Bridge) Date: 06 Oct 08 - 01:05 PM I once saw a metal plate in the Beamish Mary pub, near Stanley, which had the number of 'raps' to give different signals. I seem to remember twelve or thirteen was EMERGENCY. Can you imagine trying top keep count of this many, under pressure, at either end of the shaft? |
Subject: RE: Rap her to bank - The Watersons From: GUEST,Suffolk Miracle Date: 07 Oct 08 - 07:16 AM "I seem to remember twelve or thirteen was EMERGENCY. Can you imagine trying top keep count of this many, under pressure, at either end of the shaft? " Simpsons addicts will recall The Curse of the Flying Hellfish" where Bart goes deepwater diving and is told by Grandpa that to pull the rope 64 times means he has found the treasure, 63 times means he is running out of air. |
Subject: RE: Rap her to bank - The Watersons From: GUEST,Richard Ridley Date: 09 Aug 09 - 01:49 PM Me Fatha, now 88 years old, was a mechanic/fitter in the north east pits before the 2nd world war. He maintained the pit machinery both above and below ground. He tells me that the rapper is the drum that the cable winds on to. Rapper to bank means wrap the cable on to the drum to bring the cage to the surface. When a friend asked if the miners pulled a rope to ring the bell to call the cage he said " wey no man, tha was always a button ta press!". The rope obviously goes back to the early 1900's when Henry Natress wrote the words. It's a great song but I always felt it was left unresolved, what did happen to me Fatha after the awful fall of stones?. I wrote a final verse which gives a happy ending to the story. Now it's off to work all by mesel' Never more with me Fatha It's my job now to call the torn But I'll see him after fower Richard Ridley www.myspace.com/smallpictures |
Subject: RE: Rap her to bank - The Watersons From: Rumncoke Date: 10 Aug 09 - 06:29 AM I have had it explained to me that 'chummins' and 'tyum 'uns' are dialect words - I think it is a mondegreen. The putter rams the empty ones. But wi' t' explosive 't' and an accent it is not heard clearly enough. Anne Croucher |
Subject: RE: Rap her to bank - The Watersons From: Ross Campbell Date: 10 Aug 09 - 07:56 PM Re "tyum 'uns" - this has already been covered elsewhere. The old Scots or Middle English word "toom" means "empty" - still surviving in regional dialect. It's not a mondegreen, the words you have been given are correct. Ross |
Subject: RE: Rap her to bank - The Watersons From: Snuffy Date: 11 Aug 09 - 08:57 AM "Toom" comes to us from the Viking invasions. Modern Danish, Norwegian & Swedish still have "tom" as their word for empty. |
Subject: RE: Rap her to bank - The Watersons From: Bat Goddess Date: 11 Aug 09 - 10:37 AM I've had this song running through my head for the past coupla months -- really need to learn it, I guess that means. But I find it to be one of the saddest songs in the world. I had a lot of trouble learning "Dancing at Whitsun" because I'd tear up (and I don't do that easily) after the first verse. I'm finding I have a similar problem with "Rapper To Bank". Linn |
Subject: RE: Rap her to bank - The Watersons From: GUEST,oxonmakem Date: 18 Dec 09 - 09:16 AM At Shewsbury Festival this summer I heard The Wilsons sing this song with a couple of new verses they had just written. Does anybody have the words? |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rap Her to Bank (The Watersons) From: GUEST Date: 14 May 16 - 08:40 PM would like lyrics to the first two verses of this song sung by the wilsons |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rap Her to Bank (The Watersons) From: GUEST,padgett Date: 15 May 16 - 03:34 AM If you want saddest song (mining) try Morley main disaster ~ I could not listen to this for many years particularly when sung by a women 1866 had the biggest mining Disaster ~ The Oaks Colliey disaster ~ Barnsley Main collery pit head gear is still in existence and is to be refurbished for heritage purpose 366+ miners died and many remain buried to this day Ray |
Subject: Origins: Rap Her to Bank From: Joe Offer Date: 10 Aug 20 - 02:36 PM Here's the Traditional Ballad Index entry: Rap 'Er to BankDESCRIPTION: "Rap 'er to bank, me canny lad! Wind 'er away, keep tornin! The bac-shift men are gannin' hyme...." The canaller recalls his father's life on the canal, and how he died in a fall of stones. The singer, too, is leaving the canal.AUTHOR: unknown EARLIEST DATE: 1978 (Raven) KEYWORDS: canal work death father FOUND IN: Britain(England(North)) REFERENCES (1 citation): ADDITIONAL: Jon Raven, _VIctoria's Inferno: Songs of the Old Mills, Mines, Manufacturies, Canals, and Railways_, Roadside Press, 1978, pp. 74-75, "Rap 'Er to Bank" (1 text, 1 tune) Roud #1786 File: JRVi074 Go to the Ballad Search form Go to the Ballad Index Instructions The Ballad Index Copyright 2022 by Robert B. Waltz and David G. Engle. RAP 'ER TE BANK (DT Lyrics) cho: Rap 'er to bank, me canny lad! Wind 'er away, keep tornin! The back-shift men are gannin' hyam, We'll be back in the mornin'. My feyther used to call the torn When the lang shift was ower. As he went oot bye, ye'd hear him cry; D'ye knaa it's efter fower? And when that aaful day arrived, The last shift for me feyther; A faal of stones and brokken bones, But still above the clatter, he cried: final cho: Rap 'er te bank, me canny lad! Wind 'er reet slow, that's clivor! This poor aad lad hes tekken bad, Aa'll be back heor nivvor. From Victoria's Inferno, Raven Collected from Henry Nattress, Gateshead Note: The rapper rope hung from a rapper at the minehead; the miners pulled it as a signal to bring the cage back up to the surface. @English @mining @death filename[ RAPBANK TUNE FILE: RAPBANK CLICK TO PLAY RG
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rap Her to Bank (The Watersons) From: GUEST,Bob Chance Date: 09 Jun 22 - 08:39 AM Just remembering that Keith Marsden would often start a set by singing Rap Her to Bank, followed by Close the Coalhouse Door. Keith’s been gone a good while now, for me, I still hear his voice when either song is sung. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rap Her to Bank (The Watersons) From: GUEST,Northumborman Date: 18 Dec 22 - 05:31 AM Thank you for printing these lyrics, I was never sure if there should be more verses, but my memory isn't failing me yet! One small point, all the other dialect words have been written, but I think "hame" should be "hyem" - at least in the version I first heard ??. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rap Her to Bank (The Watersons) From: GUEST,jim bainbridge Date: 18 Dec 22 - 06:49 AM to be fair, the East coast Scottish pronunciation of 'hame' is quite similar to NE England's 'hyem' About an earlier post, the live Jack Elliott LP was recorded at Newcastle City Hall & the proceeds used to finance the posthumous LP put together by BILL Leader. One memory of Stumbling Jack- like a lot of working men he did enjoy a pint or two & I recall him saying one day at a southern England pub 'this beer's that bad I'll be glad when I've had enough' |
Subject: RE: Lyr ADD: Rap Her to Bank (from The Watersons) From: Joe Offer Date: 20 Dec 22 - 03:54 AM Watersons recording: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeO9nBbXFLs Ian Campbell Folk Group: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bibzq99KZ_E Jack Elliott: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bXq0IJAHPQ |
Subject: RE: Origins: Rap Her to Bank (from The Watersons) From: GUEST,jim bainbridge Date: 20 Dec 22 - 05:40 AM ps when I mentioned the Jack Elliott LP, it was of course put together from private recordings, edited by Bill Leader The City Hall concert was a charity event, where local 'folk' performers gave their services free to finance the LP- just for clarity |
Subject: RE: Origins: Rap Her to Bank (from The Watersons) From: Dave the Gnome Date: 20 Dec 22 - 06:42 AM It was suggested but never validated that the swords used in the North East rapper dance were used down mines for cleaning the dirt off the backs of pit ponies. If that were true they could also be used to tap signals to the banksman in charge of the cage. Not just up and down but speed as well - Materials were winched faster than men. So, Rapper being both the signaller and device and the banksman being the recipient, rapper to t'bank makes sense! |
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