Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!

Subject: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 12:21 PM

Nope, this ain't the score of a high school football game, or even the ages on a rural marriage license, but it's more amazing (to me) than either.

Mudcatter "Shug" (posts under "Dizzie" for some reason) lent me a video of the 1994 Fiddler's Convention at Union Grove. Wonderful music...Old time...Bluegrass...Gospel, etc. After watching for about twenty minutes I thought, "boy, almost everyone's playing Martin D-28s or D-18s". Then, just out of curiosity, I thought I'd rewind it and start from the beginning, counting guitar brands. Should I have been surprised that the final tally was:

Martin...58

Gibson...2.!

Taylor...1

Gallagher...1

unidentified (Martin copies?)...4

unidentified (others) 3 (or 4)

Not the same with banjos. Some Mastertones, some Vegas, many unidentifiable (by me)

I know very well the "Martin mystique" that goes with country music, but I was truly amazed at just HOW pervasive it is. From 6 year olds to 90 year olds, it appears to be the axe of choice. Peter T asked how folks were able to afford them (I suspect very few of the participants are even close to wealthy). All I can think of is that it's a case of "priority".

After pondering on this surprising ratio (you're right, I DO need to get a life!) it occured to me that perhaps the most amazing part was that I didn't identify ONE Yamaha.(the world's most popular guitar)

Rick

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 12:30 PM

The first reason I opened this was because I KNEW you had to have been the author. Holy Cow? You're the only one around who uses that. Have you ever noticed that after a bit, you can pretty much guess the author of a thread before you open it? Words, phrasing, caps....something.

Also, this may be the earliest thread creep ever.

But I did like your stats. I'm always watching that stuff too as you know....never kept a count though..........

Spaw

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Wesley S
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 12:36 PM

Rick - I'm not suprised at all. It's part tradition, part habit. If you watch all of your heros play Martins then you will be tempted to get one too. One of the reasons I bought my D-18 was because Tom Paxton played a Martin. There are a lot of good guitars being made nowadays and most of them are very suitable for this style but it will be a long time before they make inroads into such a culture as bluegrass.

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Peg
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 12:41 PM

so those Martin copies must have been Tachamines? (the early ones were made to look like Martins right down to the way the name was written, which from far away looked like B. F. Martin; now they have changed the look of the name on the top). I used to have one. I miss it!

peg

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Sean Belt
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 12:45 PM

It's a funny thing. My main guitar is a late '50s Gibson dreadnaught. I love it. Whenever I pull it out, whomever I'm playing with, I get lots of compliments on the sound and the look of it. But you're right, Rick. As much as they admire my Gibson, no one seems to want to own/play one.

- Sean

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Midchuck
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 12:57 PM

Peg: Those are referred to on the flatpick list as "Lawsuit Taks," and are sought after. I don't know how much you miss yours money wise but check this out.

Peter.

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Easy Rider
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 01:12 PM

Now, if you were watching a Country (Pop) Music show, the ratio would probably be Gibson J200: 52, Martin: 2

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Peg
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 01:37 PM

thanks, Midchuck! I have written the seller to ask if the neck is narrow enough (mine had a nice narrow neck despite its fairly large body) for me as I have small hands. I cannot remember the model I had. I bought it new around 1984 for $325.00. Rosewood back, spruce front I think...a friend had a solid mahogany 12-string "lawsuit" model that was gorgeous; she sold hers, too...

I sold mine after a summer traveling in England left me broke (in grad school at the time, too)

I am gonna try to bid on this geetar...

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Midchuck
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 02:05 PM

Peg: I think the "standard" 1 11/16" at nut neck is pretty universal on these. That's exactly why I clued someone else in on this rather than keeping quiet in hopes of getting it myself - I have gotten used to a wide neck such as several of my present guitars have, and don't really like to play the standard width any more.

Peter.

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 02:12 PM

Ah yes......The great Taks....330 was the mahog/D-18 and the 360 was the rosewood/D-28. Lovely guitars. Beautiful woods, nice bookmatching, superb fit and finish.....just take a look inside one with a mirror and see if it isn't better than Martin..........Say what? You don't have one to look in? Ah, what a shame........You could look inside of this one I got right here. No, you can't have it.....I mean I paid a hundred bucks for it new and all...........(:<))

Spaw - BTW, her name is Marie......Absolutely sweet.

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: kendall
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 03:21 PM

Taylor and Santa Cruz are making serious inroads into the Martin monopoly around here. Thats good in more than the obvious ways, but, it has forced Martin to go back to building quality guitars as they used to. I've owned them all, Gibson, Martin, Mossman,Yamaha, Guild and Ibaneze. I swapped the Ibaneze for a gun, the Guild for a Mossman, I gave the Gibson away and I sold the Martin. Do I like the Taylor? Hope to piss in your mess kit!! (thread creep)

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 03:56 PM

Yeah, Kendall....Taylor seems to be real popular on the road circuit right now. But you won't find many with the Bluegrass folks. Glad you like your Taylor, but I'd stay away from some of that off brand trash like, say, Apollonio or something.......real junk.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: John Hardly
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 04:21 PM

Rick,

Regarding your question about why no Yamahas. Do they actually make a drednought? I know the FG looks like a dred but it's 3/4" shallower and 3/4-1" wider at the lower bout. If you were to get a good sounding Yamaha (I did) it would still probably resemble an OM in sound more than a dred. It has no BOOM and to much sus for chuck. Lousy Bluegrass guitar. More comfortable to play though.

John

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 04:41 PM

Hi John........Rick's comment was about half tongue in cheek as we've had a lot of talks around here about the quality and sound and durability of Yamaha Guitars and Rick was even at a "Blind" test at Mandolin Brothers once wherr the Yamaha won hands down over rosewood Martins and top line stuff. Once the blindfolds were removed, the Yamaha dropped to the bottom. Evidently a vintage Martin sounds better if you LOOK at it!

Yamaha DOES make dreadnoughts and in both their more expensive and less expensive models. The reason you don't see them is more a question of "panache" than anything else. They're great guitars, but that guy with the 70 vintage Martin Deadsound-28 will never admit it.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: John Hardly
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 04:50 PM

Spaw,

Thanks for the reply. I do like my Yammy but it's one of those that's destined to have the permanent "slide set-up"--action too high and value too low for a neck reset. Too bad. I often wonder with those blind tests if "different" doesn't sway a vote more than "better"

John

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 05:22 PM

Yep, Paw is right. I watched several prominent players pick a brand new Yamaha (sort of) Dreadnought, over Martins, Guilds, Gurians etc. Ten to one they'd never get caught dead showing up on a gig with one of them though.

I looked at the video again (I AM a nurd after all) and I don't think the Martin copies are Takamartins. Probably hand built thingys. These folks (almost all amateur players) take their guitars seriously. Shit I wished I lived down South. Oh I found two more Gibsons. So the total is now Martin 58, Gibson 4. (all the Gibsons seem to be the J-45 style)

Rick

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: bbelle
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 06:00 PM

Uh ... nevermind.

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 06:19 PM

Seening Midchuck mention it, somebody suggested I might be interested in the Flatpickers list in Hearme about a week ago. Can anyone give me the details please.

Jon (who would love a Martin but is happy with his Fylde)

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: bbelle
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 06:27 PM

Jon ... I'm on the Flatpick list ... if you have my personal email, email me and I will supply the link. If not, PM me.

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 06:27 PM

"happy with his Fylde" - that's like me saying I'd be quite pleased to win the lottery tomorrow. (In which case a Fyldeis on my shopping list.

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 06:30 PM

We ought to keep a tally on shows/specials and the like that we see and see what the breakdown is out of curiosity. A lot of it relates to particular styles/types of music to be sure. Like the tape Rick just watched, I saw a little homegrown PBS thing from Tennessee awhile back.....same thing, fiddlin and band contest. I didn't keep a count but I'm sure the Martin numbers would match. If you watch TNN much you find the "lineage artists" like Ricky Skaggs, Marty Stuart, etc., playing Martin or Martin looking improvements (Skaggs plays Bourgeois). But you find a fair number of Gibson's. The pop-country big names seem to be in a category I can only figure to be "pay to play" so I doubt its too meaningful. A lot of them use Gibson and I'm sure they get a "something" out of it. I notice a lot of new Taks too.

But every alternative/folk-like/unplugged type concert I've seen in the past few years features a lot of Taylors.

I think I'll start counting for the hell of it.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: bbelle
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 06:35 PM

Since Dana Bourgeois sort of went bankrupt and is now making a comeback sort of, I figure Skaggs is keeping him in business. Too bad, eh? Small luthier making a 5-star instrument, by hand, with unbelievable workmanship ... can't stay in business 'cause he can't make 'em fast enough to sustain the business.

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 06:51 PM

Yeah, well I think you have point, but its like any business, there is a thing as having too much success. I said a long time ago around here that Dana may be the most knowledgable luthier around when it comes to understanding the "voicings of wood." Its hard to grow a business, maintain standards, and actually improve and make money at the same time and though this might be some "Golden Age of Luthery" for consumers, its pretty tough and takes some business savvy, which makes me admire the Bob Taylors and Jean Larrivees all the more.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 06:53 PM

Video update. One of the formerly unidentified axes is probably a Collings......BUT....I found two more Martins!

Interesting that Larrivee hasn't cracked that market at all....but is so big in the singer-songwriter one. The thing that really surprised me was the almost total lack of low-end guitars. Obviously these "Fiddle Convention folks" have their priorities straight! Ha Ha.

Rick

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From:
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 06:56 PM

Well, I bid on it twice and I was outbid before you could blink an eye,also my highest bid wasn't up to the sellers minumum, so much for tryin' to cheer myself up wi'anew geetar.Moonjen, I haven't forgotten you or my promise, I've just been using a different computer an just now got my pm. soon as I'm through defraging my harddrive I'll send you those links okay?peace -Biskit-

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: bbelle
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 07:08 PM

'spaw ... didja know that many of the other guitar makers are guying wood from Jean Larrivee, because he is considered THE expert on the different types used and where to get them. He spends a bit of time in thye jungles and bush getting wood.

Biskit ... keep trying. I know where there a Collings D2H for sale ... 1994, $2100 firm. Been played but in good condition. Interested? Let me know.

And Rick ... you are a Martin snob and full-o-shit!

(She says with a gleam in her eyes and a smile on her lips, all the while, lovingly stroking her Larrivee.)

*LOL*

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: kendall
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 07:09 PM

Look lets face it..the main thing that Martin has is history. Hell we STILL give Columbus credit for discovering America! Why? its not that we dont know any better..beats me. Anyway, the other thing is volume.. brought on my action so high you could shove a cat under it! One 32nd of an inch of plastic is hardly something to brag about. I've never seen a loud Martin that didn't have the action higher than a hawks nest. They are not fun to play, but by God they are loud! I must admit I have played a few very nice sounding Martins. But, I must also say most of the others are fit for planting pansies.

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 07:19 PM

So then that'd be one against huh Kendall?

Spaw

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: bbelle
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 07:23 PM

So, kendall ... you'd be thinking Rick is full-o-shit, too? *ROFLMAO*

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: bbelle
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 07:25 PM

I'm heading out to the local picking parlour to beat the crap out of all the Martin players! Marquis of Queensbury Rules, of course.

moonjen

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Lanfranc
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 07:26 PM

I have two Martins, a 1968 D18 and a 2000 SPD15. I've owned the first for over thirty years, sold it to a friend twice when broke and bought it back again when solvent. It's like my wife in a way, I love it dearly, the years have mellowed it more than somewhat and I don't take it out much any more.

The SPD15 was a love at first pick indulgence for which I traded in a Simon and Patrick (pretty good, but FRAGILE finish) and a Washburn J200 copy (big, powerful but I prefer the sound of a Dreadnought).

In my time I've owned several guitars (I used to teach guitar and trade), and still have three Washburns and a 1978 Mugen, but I always come back to the Martins.

I don't play bluegrass, but I was (and am) heavily influenced by Tom Paxton - even if he doesn't play Martins on stage these days.

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: DougR
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 07:42 PM

Now this, is an interesting thread.

DougR

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 08:02 PM

Well, actually I AM probably a snob about a lot of things, not the least of which was my 1970 Cedar top Larrivee, with the tree of life inlay and solid ivory bridge and saddle. It was my work guitar for about 10 years until I wore the sucker out. Poor Nancy (my lady at the time) couldn't understand why I NEEDED THAT GUITAR! 'Cause I did have a Martin 00-18 (1946) but it was too small(!!??) and a Gibson J-50...but it was too round(!?). My other Guilds, Epiphones, Harmonys etc. were just too...tooo (you understand, don't you?) So she pulled out the heavy artillery. "Didn't you just say a year ago that your Mossman Grand Era was the BEST and LOUDEST guitar you've ever owned, and that you'd play it forever?" I slunk away in shame........then went down to the Folklore Centre, maxed out my credit card and proudly brought my wonderful new baby home (this was before I cared much about elephants...remember the ivory bridge?). When I got to our door, my guitar pride was replaced by stark fear! After all, even though I was totally irresponsible, I was at least TRYING to be a good partner, and here I'd spent money I didn't have on ANOTHER guitar! I weighed my options....tell her I FOUND it on the street,.....say that the Larrivee company had asked me to endorse it.........look pathetic, and claim I was simply a useless sicko, and she'd be better off with that dentist she had been going out with......or just do THE RIGHT THING...LIKE A MAN! Well I quickly forgot that last option and hid the damned thing in the basement for three days. When she'd go to work, I'd pull it out and play like mad for a few hours. As luck would have it my friend Tim Allen (not THAT Tim Allen!) bought my Mossman, and Nancy said "Go buy that damn 'Larraby" that you've been moaning about!" I went out and sat in the park for an hour, returned home, went to the basement and brought it up.

Honestly, I'm not that bad anymore...besides Heather's heard all these stories and is smart as a whip. I wouldn't have a chance!

Rick (compensating for his confused childhood)

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Ebbie
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 08:13 PM

HA! Kendall, I remember I was at an open mike once listening to a foursome. I loved the rich, balanced sound of the guitars and I said into my brother's ear, At least a couple of those have to be Martins. Turned out all four were. Ah, heaven...

One of the guys said he's just saving up to get a D41, so you can see this was a while ago but I still love that Martin sound. I have a Martin- one of those years that isn't supposed to be all that good but it is! It's a '71 D35 S and I love it. AND Merle Travis played it in 1973- I have a photo to prove it. AND he liked it . So there.

Ebbie

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 08:16 PM

And all of that from a man who bought a Mexican 12-string named Pedro that imploded in the middle of the night in a closet, while, I might add, he was hiding it from his girl of the moment. Which brings up a few other observations/questions.

1) You seem to have a passion for hiding guitars from the women in your life.

2) Considering the number you've owned (2519) and the number you've had stolen (846), why not just tell her the Mossman was stolen?

3) Was this the same girl that you met later and couldn't remember that you had once lived together....or even KNEW her?

Spaw

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 08:19 PM

Ebbie, I'll bet your's is a "good'un". Those "bad years" for Martin are very real but the actual number of "bum guitars" was still relatively low. Many of the axes from that time have "found their sound" over the years. Martin DID have to do a lot of warranty work on necks during that time though.

Rick

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Dizzie
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 08:45 PM

Rick,
And here I was going through my video catching all the hammered dulcimer players,not even noticing some guys were plunking away on guitars. Just goes to show.

Shug.
BTW I am Shug - the wife is Dizzie (yes your right),and she only lets me near the computer when there is a Rick or Duckboots posting.

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 08:53 PM

I'm still waiting for an answer here Rick.........

And Shug, its a lot harder to ID HD's.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: bbelle
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 09:00 PM

I'm back to make sure you martinsnobs don't talk about me!! (actually the pickin' parlour was dark tonight)

Yeah, Rick, we're all waiting for an answer ... but I reckon it's better to hide in the closet than come out of the closet, unless there's something else you're not telling us?

Rick you have TERMINAL GAS!!! Surgery will not help; a wife with a frying pan in her hand chasing you around the house will not help; intervention by your friends will not help. The only remedy for you is to take two credit cards and trot on down to The 12th Fret in the morning. (I'm not a doctor but I like to play doctor.)

GAS = GUITAR ACQUISITION SYNDROM

moonjen

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: MK
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 09:05 PM

(Bit of thread creep....but)

For anyone who's interested, here's the real story of Bourgeois Guitar's problems as told by Dana himself.

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: MK
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 09:10 PM

Well Kendall I know of a particularly loud 1950 D-28, with low action and it isn't planting any daisies.*BG*

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 09:48 PM

Ahhh yes Mike, but how many nurds like us spend all our time fixing actions? Not many I suspect.

Well yes Spaw and Jen...it WAS actually. Although I remember the six significant (sort of) marriages I had BH (before Heather) with fondness (I'm still friends with those tolerant ladies), the main "relationship-guitar" is instantly recallable.

Dorothy (Mother)...Kay Archtop, cheap Stella 12 string. Goya G-17 (traded)

Angie...1944 D-18 (like an idiot..sold it)

Alison...1961 Epiphone Texan (sold to former friend for rent money)

Sandy...Guild F 212 (stolen) D-28 (new...ughh, sold it gladly)

Nancy...Larrivee custom (sold to prominent feminist singer)

Pam...1946 00-18, Japanese assembled Lowden (still the best sounding axe I've ever owned) sold to Mudcatter Willy-o.

Diane...Lowden (see above)

Heather....Lowden (see above), then guitar turmoil! maybe it'll be my 1949 0-18. Maybe my 1984 HB D-35, maybe NOT! (I'm sure keepin' Heather though!)

A thought just occurred to me. Most folks here are friends. If a newcomer sees this they really WILL think I'm nuts! For the record, guitars (and other instruments) are my ONLY vices!

Rick (and ciggys)

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 09:49 PM

Thanks for the link Michael. Several stories have floated around, but every version gets down to the same thing......business acumen and artistry are not always compatible and I say once again that folks like Bob Taylor and Jean Larrivee are to be respected for what they have achieved. I'm sure an element or two of luck may have come their way too, but its a tough thing to grow any business without outgrowing yourself.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 09:54 PM

Well Rick, its good for newbies to get off on the right foot and get the proper impression of people so I think this will be useful to them. I mean, like I have GAS, but its the more common kind (really its kind of uncommon tonite....musta' been the chili).

Yes, I think any new members can get a good look at the Rick Fielding we know here at the 'Cat.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: bbelle
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 10:03 PM

Rick, my dear friend ... you know, of course, that I will never think of you in the same way!

Ya know ... I've had my Gibson for 35 years. It's outlasted ALL the men. I've known a few lovers I would like to have sold to the Asian market, but never gave a thought to selling my Gibson. (Well, yes, I did have a thought, recently, but, thank g-d for friends, eh?)

'spaw, my other dear friend ... your flatulence, not your reputation, precedes you ...

moonjen

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Amos
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 10:10 PM

Like Rick, I have a pre-war 00-18, which I got from a crude college kid fifteen years ago. It was my first Martin, and I loved it and still play it, but the board was a tad narrow for my taste, and it was not a Dreadnought -- it had a lovely voice but suited more for a damsel in a parlor. Bit lightweight.

Two years ago, I finally fulfilled a dream I have had for thirty years or more and acquired a Martin D28, circa 1976, in rich and full voice, with a lovely action -- not stiff, but not invisible, just right.

It has a more beautiful tone, in my opinion, than any Gibson I have played, although I have never owned one. I always found their actions too stiff.

I guess we're all entitled to our own bad taste, huh?

A.

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: kendall
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 10:25 PM

Dont put words in my mouth moonjen, I would never say Rick is full of shit..I wouldnt say that to anyone. What I said was strictly MY opinion which comes from my own experience.

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 10:36 PM

If I could keep only one I think it would have to be the old 1949 018 though the little kallamazoo would be the hardest to leave behind.. Or maybe the deoloian.. Thank god we dont have to play one guitar choice. THat might make a good thread though.. All the best..Guy

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: bbelle
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 10:37 PM

Amos ... ABSOLUTELY!

I contend ... it's one's personal preference and ear that draws them to a certain instrument. It's fine if there's investment value to an instrument, and some are only interested in that aspect. Then there are those of us who develop a personal relationship with our guitar(s) and we "hear" a particular sound that maybe only "we" hear and we make them "sing."

Until recently I had never played anything BUT a Gibson. I just thought every Gibson had the same sound and playability as mine. They don't. And this is with every single make of guitar.

Also, you gotta understand that Rick knows well that I am giving him grief about the Martin thing, because I both adore and respect him. I used four people as "guides" when I was nearing the end of my search for a new guitar ... Rick, catspaw, Big Mick, Jed Marum. But it was ultimately my "ear" that made the decision. And the decision was between a Martin D16GT and a Larrivee D-05. I chose the Larrivee.

I would NEVER put someone's geetar in the hole, I don't care if it was a $25 Harmony. It's attacking a personal relationship, as far as I'm concerned. So, whether it Rick's Martins and Gibson, my Gibson and Larrivee, kendall's Taylor, your Martin ... it's what makes the world go 'round, doesn't it.

Now that I've waxed philosophical ...

Let's talk about Rick's TERMINAL GAS ...

moonjen

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: John Hardly
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 11:57 PM

Oh Finally! A guitar thread! I think I'll re-read it a few times--I almost smell cedar,mahogany,spruce,rosewood...ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: kendall
Date: 30 Sep 00 - 08:45 AM

an opinion is an opinion, nothing more. However, when someone states an opinion as fact..it gets sticky. I was in a music store yesterday and heard a guy say "Martin makes the best." I asked if he had ever played a Santa Cruz, and he said "No, I couldnt afford one of those." At the risk of pissing off the Martin fans, I have to say, MEDIOCRITY KNOWS NOTHING HIGHER THAN ITSELF.

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Midchuck
Date: 30 Sep 00 - 09:19 AM

Speaking as a mediocre guitar player, who loves to listen to, and watch, really good guitar players, albeit with a mixture of awe and jealousy, Kendall, I'm afraid that statement makes no sense to me.

Peter.

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: MK
Date: 30 Sep 00 - 10:18 AM

I guess too it has to do with one's experience, history and exposure to certain brands, and being influenced by those who's opinions you respect. If you've gravitated towards a certain name, you become partial to it over others, and "you like what you like". It's human nature and is entirely understandable. It's like comparing one brand of automobile to another. They all get you where you want to go. It's a matter of the comfort of the ride.

The first guitar I ever had was a late 60s Gibson J-45. I kept it about 3 or 4 months. It was fine for learning chords on. Then I started hanging out with a friend who played an Ovation Balladeer...and from playing his, I decided I liked the sound and the playability of it better, so I swapped the Gibson, for a sunburst Ovation. I liked this instrument a lot, and thought the neck was great on it, and except for the tendancy of the bowl back to slide, which forced me to wear a guitar strap when playing it, I enjoyed this instrument. A while later I met a guitar player who taught me the basics of fingerpicking. Happened that he was a Martin fanatic, and one his first comments when he saw my Ovation was (a very opinionated) "we've got to get you a real guitar" (by that meaning a Martin.) It happened that he used a 1944 D-28, that blew my mind both in terms of playability and, tone. Together we spent weeks going around and playing D-28s and D-35s that were for sale privately and publicly...and eventually found a particularly sweet '68 D-28. I developed a real love for this instrument, and a real love for Martins in general...and it was to be the first of many Martins I've since owned. Back then (talking late 60's early 70s) there wasn't any serious competition to Martin (no Santa Cruzs, Taylors or Collings and Larrivee's were just hitting the market but were unproven.) If you didn't play a Martin then it was either a Gibson, Guild, Mossman or Washburn. Then of course in the early to mid 70s guitar quality from Gibson and Martin took a dip, and it was around this time that pro players started looking for an alternative as these newer manufacturers started to emerge. This mini era of declining quality helped put among others, Larrivee on the map.

These days I try to keep somewhat of an opened mind when checking out instruments for purchase. Naturally because of my own personal experiences with Martins I gravitate towards them first. But I try not to let a brand name influence me in the way it used to. In addition to my Martins, I also own a rosewood/spruce Collings OM, and while pricey, it is probably one of the finest instruments I've ever played. It cannot be faulted in any manner for its workmanship, materials, or playability (which IMHO is flawless.) I have also played a Santa Cruz OM, which again impressed me as an extremely fine instrument -one that I would have purchased in a heartbeat if I didn't already have another OM. I used to have an attitude that there are Martins and then there's everything else...and that people who bought anything else were doing it more so to make a statement in deliberately snubbing Martin. I no longer see things this way. It's a matter of personal preference. And everyone's relationship with their guitar of choice should be respected, even if our own biases sometimes tend to get in the way.

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: John Hardly
Date: 30 Sep 00 - 10:30 AM

Michael K,

Honestly, wouldn't you like to have that J45 back now (in addition to whatever else you've got) They really have a singular sound (probably due to short scale) and comfortable playability--I know I wish I had one.

John

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: bbelle
Date: 30 Sep 00 - 10:34 AM

Too bad Threadie didn't feel the same way.

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: MK
Date: 30 Sep 00 - 10:46 AM

John, not really. *BG* It never did anything for me, and at that time, I didn't think it was anything special. It was a cheap purchase and I treated it as a learning instrument.

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Troll
Date: 30 Sep 00 - 10:47 AM

I've always been a Gibson fan but only because Gibsons had the sound I wanted. Every guitar is NOT the same, regardless of brand.
My main guitar is-and has been for years- a Recording King built by Regal for Montgomery Ward in the late 30's.
But I also play a Harmony Meteor (mid 50's) with two deArmond pickups, a '63 Gibson LG0, a Yamaki (D-28 copy), a custom made 12-string, and a cedar-top Lyon & Healy circa 1900.
All were chosen for a particular sound quality, not because of the brand.
The Taylors that I have played have not impressed me particularly, the Larravees have. I would kill to own a Santa Cruz and a friend has a Gibson J-185 for which I would readily sell my soul, if he would part with it.
The rest of the guitars that the family owns are either someone elses faves or acquisitions that were just " too good a deal to pass up". GAS

troll

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Mooh
Date: 30 Sep 00 - 12:12 PM

You people know how conforting it is to find others who define themselves at least in part by what instrument they play?

Thanks.

Don't look to the Danes and Euro thread, I don't even mention guitars there...and I'm not always that bitchey.

I have 3 very good handmade guitars which I would feel comfortable comparing to any Martin. Not better or worse, just different. I would still love a Martin, and have played dozens which were exceptional guitars. Larivee has impressed me more lately, and a friend just bought a mahogany OM style one which sounds great new and will doubtless mature wonderfully. As with all good guitars, there's some envy and covetiveness involved here, vices I likely share with others around Ville de Mudcat.

The one sure thing about Martin and other fine guitars is that they will mature better than lesser guitars. They will sound better older than newer, and they generally sound pretty acceptable right out of the factory.

I regret selling the only Gibson acoustic (I can remember) I owned, even though it was a cheap one from the '60's (I think). Some of the new Gibsons look mighty nice, I wonder how they'll sound in 20 years.

One of the interesting things about guitars is the ones with all the "bells and whistles" are not always the most sought after. A plain old D-18 is as elite as any other. Not the same for cars, I think.

A student of mine sometimes silently reminds me that any guitar is better than no guitar, and if he only had a Martin...

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Peter T.
Date: 30 Sep 00 - 12:48 PM

And catspaw says I have way too much time on my hands. Counting guitars in videos!! Twice!!! And linking your guitars to signifcant girlfriends -- I got news for you, not only newbies will think you are nuts!!!!

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: John Hardly
Date: 30 Sep 00 - 12:52 PM

Troll,

It wasn't so much the fact that the J45 is a Gibson that I was referring to. It's that, as a production model, it's one of few designed for (though not always achieved) big sound in spite of short scale--still clearing 14 frets. I'm with you on buying a guitar for sound but I do know a few jumping off points that might point toward the sound I'm after

John

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: bbelle
Date: 30 Sep 00 - 02:17 PM

Mooh ... my Gibson B-25 is a "cheap one from the 60's" and is a sweet instrument. Bought it brand new in 1965. From what I can tell, from talking to geetar players all over the country, the B-25 is one of those 60's anomalies. There aren't many out there, but the ones that are, are the "sweet" ones. I always knew it was and knew I was a lucky gal.

Having played many, many guitars in the last year ... Gibson, Martin, Guild, Ovation, Taylor, Tacoma, BlueRidge, Collings, Yamaha, Santa Cruz, and a few others ...

I learned that one D18 doesn't necessarily sound like another D18, just for a starter. I didn't like any of the Gibsons, even the vintage ones. Didn't like any of the 00 or OM ... didn't like their feel. Stay away from Martin's smart wood models; the cherry is pretty but the sound is nada. The Santa Cruz neck width is too wide for my hands. (Bear in mind that some were out of my price league, but at least now I know whether I would consider them if I ever get another case of TERMINAL GAS.) Ovations slide right off my lap ... I'd have to buy stock in velcro. The others just didn't have the sound I wanted. The Collings had a sweet sound, just not affordable.

But my Larrivee D-05 has everything I was seeking ... sound, playability, still affordable, fit, and it's just damn pretty. Everytime I say this I gotta thank 'spaw and Jed.

Personal relationship with my geetars. Not on your life ...

moonjen

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Midchuck
Date: 30 Sep 00 - 02:28 PM

There follows, copy-and-paste of a post of mine to the Flatpick list from mid-August.

Peter.

*********************************************

You see before you a poor sinner hopelessly embroiled in blatant hypocrisy.

It was I, some months back, who coined the term, "TGTDNSIN" for those guitars built in that modern sodom, Southern California, to be sold to Sensitive Singer-Songwriters and punk rockers who wanted to try getting on the "unplugged" bandwagon, by a company that ordered that its name never be mentioned on the net. I have preached the gospel, that only guitars from Nazareth, or near-exact copies of them, were worth being owned by anyone who Believed.

(...deep breath...gathering courage to Confess...)

Today I bought a Taylor.

It's lovely. It's a 414 - the next-to-bottom-of-the-line Grand Auditorium model (these are just about exactly dreadnought dimensions, but with more of a waist). Spruce top, Ovangkol back & sides, Ebony fingerboard and bridge. These models also have the 1 3/4" (at the nut) wide neck, which I've come to prefer strongly -almost to require.

I didn't _need_ it, of course. I have guitars. But I've been doing enough gigs this summer that I had the money for the price the store had it at, and I was afraid I'd blow the money on utility bills or car repairs or something mundane, and gig money shouldn't be wasted like that if you have a day job. Besides, it's a perfect size for gigs - essentially the size of a dreadnought (and sounds like one) but less clumsy to hold. And it's cheap enough that I can take it anywhere, even in a gigbag if I choose, and not be in terror of something happening to it. And that trouble maker Morse, my partner, was the man behind the counter. And I knew he lusted after it himself, and could get it cheaper even than I did, unless I made a move.

So I succumbed. I anticipate your contempt, and I richly deserve it. I shall try to return to the Fold next time around.

In the meantime, i still have a very nice D1-R to sell, with hard case, if anyone knows someone who wants to upgrade from a Pacific Rim learner, or whatever...let me know...

Peter.

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Lady McMoo
Date: 30 Sep 00 - 05:09 PM

Have owned a Martin, a Gibson and a Lowden but for me my current Lakewood is the best guitar I've owned. But then, I've always been a little odd!

mcmoo

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Mbo
Date: 30 Sep 00 - 05:27 PM

Yep, my Yamaha is a dreadnought all right. An Eterna EF-10. As of yet, I have heard NO ONE say anything about this type of guitar. All the Yamahas I ever hear about are F dash somethings. Guess those are the old ones. I'd stick with my guitar over any of those high-filootin' expensive ones. It may not have 2000 coats of varnish on it, it may not have mother-of-pearl position markers, it may no even have 2 guitar strap nubs. But it's played with love, and that makes it more important than any other guitar could ever be. And it cetainly IS a dreadnought, for it dreads nothing...it has played more different kinds of music than most guitars could ever dream of (in their little wooden hearts). It's name is Vox Aeterna.

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: GUEST,marty D
Date: 30 Sep 00 - 08:21 PM

As of two o'clock today I'm the proud owner of a Martin DM dreadnought guitar. It hasn't turned me into Doc Watson yet but I can see how it might. I even got a Shubb capo. Nobody can doubt my commitment now. Even my son is impressed.

M

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Bugsy
Date: 30 Sep 00 - 08:51 PM

When I finally got my Martin 00018, I was in heaven. Everywhere I played it people commented on how good it sounded and how easy it was to play.

Then about 5 years ago I bought a Maton M325. No where near as expensive as my little Martin, but a Much Bigger beast.

As far as sound goes it shits all over the Martin and any other guitar I've ever played. Even my friends who are died in the wool Martinites (sounds a bit like Marmitites,) admit that it has a wonderful tone, and LOUD?

I think it's time for the Martin to got to someone who will play it. I'm sold on the Maton! (and it's Australian made)

Cheers

Bugsy

Bugsy

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Bugsy
Date: 30 Sep 00 - 08:52 PM

P.s - I'm keeping the wife though!

Cheers

Bugsy

Bugsy

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: catspaw49
Date: 30 Sep 00 - 08:52 PM

GOOD FOR YOU MARTY!!! I'm sure you'll enjoy it and you've made a good purchase.....Shubb too!! Now play your heart out and pay no attention to the curmudgeons like my friend Kendall......We all have our preferences, but you'll do well with a better guitar and one that you are happy with and the DM I'm sure will become a friend. Enjoy!

Spaw

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Tinker
Date: 30 Sep 00 - 09:01 PM

Marty, our kids can compare notes. Mine can't believe I'm practicing during soccer practice, or worse playing my CD's instead of "good" radio. I bought a Martin today,too OOOC-15E. But the Taylor Jewel was hard to put down. It was the "darker","smokier" sound that Midchuck discussed in another guitar thread that finally did it. It seems to go with my vocals. But the Jewel really fit it's name.
Then my unsuspecting husband said,"Not right now, but no one said you could only ever get one." Let's not tell him about this thread okay? But maybe if I start painting these old walls myself I could rebudget... hmmmmm
Seriously,first I have to finish getting aquainted with this new baby. After the years of dedicated service the Hondo Barcelona gave to all kinds of kids, handicapped classrooms and troops of Scouts. This new Martin is unbelievable. Scales are great fun. I just want to keep hearing it.
Tinker

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: catspaw49
Date: 30 Sep 00 - 09:13 PM

WOW!!!!!!! What a night!!! Congrats to you too Tinker!!! Gee, we go for months around here with nobody sharing the excitement of getting a new ax and now TWO in one night!! Best to you both and your new pals.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From:
Date: 30 Sep 00 - 10:05 PM

Tinker and Marty D.

Congratulations to both of you! I understand your excitement because mine is still so fresh in my mind. A friend told me that when you get a "better" guitar, often you start to play better.

Here's for playing better .......

moonjen

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Mooh
Date: 30 Sep 00 - 11:17 PM

Moonjen. That's the one! Gibson B-25. It was one sweet little axe. Why do I leave the things I love? Maybe someday I'll be describing it to a therapist. Mooh.

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Oversoul
Date: 30 Sep 00 - 11:30 PM

I have a Gibson B-25N that I purchased used in 1972.

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Troll
Date: 30 Sep 00 - 11:31 PM

John, as I said, I'm a Gibson fan. I played a J-45 until the Recording King came along. I swapped, got the Recording King,a round-neck national, two hard-shell cases and $85 cash. I own several other Gibsons and play them when they have the sound I want. As you said, some barnds are pre-disposed toward a certain sound. I like major bass.
Moonjen, I'm glad you like your B-25. If you got a good one then it's a honey. The problem was quality control; the good ones were very good and the bad ones were real stinkers.

troll

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: GUEST,faswilli2 (bille.)
Date: 01 Oct 00 - 02:09 AM

ONE WORD. STRINGS!!!!

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 01 Oct 00 - 11:42 AM

HOOH HAW!! Congrats Marty and Tinker! Some of us here probably feel like drug dealers gettin' a couple of new folks hooked on the hard stuff!

Marty, re your Doc Watson quest: I've read a couple of discouraging (but basically honest) comments to the effect that you WON'T BE Doc Watson, but if I recall from your initial post you were quite prepared for that, and of course again and again it's been written here that you only want to "do justice to his songs...NOT be a clone". Well I stick to my original premise that (if you're telling us the truth about your existing skills) and you're willing to INVEST (you've made a good start with the CDs and guitar) in this music, you most certainly WILL do justice to his music.

Glad to hear about the Shubb capo. The very popular Kaysers can tend to put guitars out of tune, 'cause they only have one tension.

Faswillie's one word: STRINGS, thing is spot on as well. Get to know what strings feel right to you. This is of course all part of becoming a "guitar nurd". Moonjen and others have lots of experience with trying different guages and brands. My faves are Masterclass 56-12 on my 0-18, Masterclass 58-12 on my D-35. but I went through dozens of brands and guages to come up with those combinations.....starting to confuse you again aren't I? Just ignore me, I get passionate about string guages, baseball, and politics.

Tinker, forgive me for not getting back to your PM sooner, I've been running around like a chicken with it's head cut off this week. Will answer your good questions later today.

Rick

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Midchuck
Date: 01 Oct 00 - 11:53 AM

What's Masterclass? Never heard of 'em. Canadian product?

I go along with Rick on the idea of relatively light trebles and medium-to-heavy basses. Tend to default to D'Addario or John Pearse PB Bluegrass gauge myself.

I'm told Norman (genufluct), when he was playing the Martin 12-fret, used a combination he made up that ran from a .10 high E to a .60 low E.

Peter.

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: MK
Date: 01 Oct 00 - 11:58 AM

They're a handmade string made by a company in England called Newtone. There is some info on them at the shop some of us Torontonians deal with here.
There are only a couple of distributors for them in North America that I know of right now. The Twelfth Fret in Toronto and Guitar Gallery in Nashville.

Excellent, long lasting strings!

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Peter T.
Date: 01 Oct 00 - 12:40 PM

it's= contraction of it is (it's a girl!).

its= possessive (its head cut off).

Grammar nerd!!!!!! (chortle)

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 01 Oct 00 - 12:51 PM

DAMN YOU PETER T!! I've been madly thumbing through my dictionary, praying that you spelled (or spelt...trying to cover my ass!) "grammar" wrong. 'Course you didn't.

Rick (I'm my own Grammaw)

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: bbelle
Date: 01 Oct 00 - 02:51 PM

Midchuck ... Norman (as I genuflect) uses GHS light gauge and he buys them in singles.

(Would you believe me if I told you I know that because's he's hiding under my bed?)

Certainly strings aren't the only important aspect of what makes a guitar sound good, but I've learned in the last year that they are VERY, VERY IMPORTANT.

I'm currently testing different makes of strings to see which sound better. My Larrivee came equipped with Elixir medium gauge strings, but the tension was too much for me. I bought sets of (all light gauge) Elixir, Earthwood, Dr. Rare, and Rogue (made by Martin, very cheap, good reputation).

I'm testing the Earthwood first and they sound great! I'm not hard on strings and my hands don't schvitz, so my strings last a long time, so it will be a few more weeks before I try one of the other makes.

I have Martin Folk Guitar Silk & Steel on my B-25 and they sound awful, yucky, horrible, drecky. THEY TWANG with every stroke. They are gawdawful!!!!! Am I saying this with enough emphasis? That's why I haven't played it in a while, but gonna change 'em this week, probably to the Elixir. 'spaw suggested I try Elixir Vintage Bronze on my Gibson and I may just order some and wait to change.

I'm having a sweatshirt embroidered with the words:

GEETAR NURD

moonjen

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: catspaw49
Date: 01 Oct 00 - 02:58 PM

That's GHS, not Elixir, Vintage Bronze moonjens.

I still try others, but I like GHS Brite Bronz, true mediums a lot. Hey Rick.....Where do you find the Masterclass things at?

Has anyone tried Everly?

Spaw

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: bbelle
Date: 01 Oct 00 - 03:27 PM

'spaw ... did you lose your glasses?

The 12th Fret in Toronto Guitar Gallery in Nashville

Thanks for the clarification on the Vintage Bronze ... I'd be gettin' really ticked when I couldn't find them in the Elixir mix! I told someone, recently, "Antique" Bronze. Maybe I should just stick with easy names.

moonjen

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: catspaw49
Date: 01 Oct 00 - 04:25 PM

Geeziz, I AM losin' it..............Completely missed Michael K.'s post. Sorry MK and all.........Musta' been a brain fart or somethin'.............

Spaw

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: kendall
Date: 01 Oct 00 - 08:04 PM

It's odd that every guitar is so different. My Taylor likes D'Addario bronze. My old Gibson liked Martin Bluegrass. Moonjen, I wouldn't put silk and steel strings on a MARTIN!! let alone on a guitar!! I once put Blue Steel strings on the Gibson. They were so bad, I cut them off within one hour of putting them on.

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: bbelle
Date: 01 Oct 00 - 09:22 PM

Down, kendall, down! We get the picture! You're my witness to how really awful those silk and steels do sound.

moonchild

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Mbo
Date: 01 Oct 00 - 09:35 PM

I use Martin Silk & Steel strings on my guitar, and nothing else. They are the closest thing ever to classical guitar strings. A few years ago, my steel string sat in the corner and collected dust because I hated playing it. Played my classical all the time. Then my guitar teacher (a professional acoustic guitarist & singer) said that I should try changing the huge phospurus strings to Martin Silk & Steels. He was a fingerpicker/flatpicker like myself, and swore by them. Well, I changed the strings, and fell in love with playing that guitar. It's great, because they are always marked down, and I can get them really cheap because they're not much in demand. I love the way they sound. You can't change, can't change, can't change me.

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 02 Oct 00 - 01:51 AM

God I am impressed by this kind of talk.Martins.Gibsons,Larrivees...my old Harmony is starting to look like a pile of dog waste.Hell,I don't even know what kind of strings it has on it.I could go out and buy a Taylor,but I have this irrational fear they'll make me play it first,and then refuse to sell it to me.

LEJ (on page 23 of Big Mick's Mastering the D Chord)

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: kendall
Date: 02 Oct 00 - 08:31 AM

Dont get me wrong...I dont mean to say that ALL Martins are mediocre..no, just the mediocre ones!

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: GospelPicker (inactive)
Date: 02 Oct 00 - 10:57 AM

My favorite guitar I ever owned was a no-name laminated spruce top, mahognay back and sides cheapie... It had a name in the soundhole but for my life I can't recall it... the reason it's my fave is because I wrote my first songs on it and I appeared on TV for the first time with it... It played well till the top bowed like all the cheapies do... I used electric strings on it when i played live to give the magnets in the pickup some more to chew on... seriously, it worked... a set of electric 10's...

GospelPicker @:()>[+]

P.S. Anyone ever play or see a PRESTIGE? cheap brand from 50's and 60's... I'm sure that one in brand new shape can't be that bad, but I'm about to drop $35 for a mint condition one... lemme know if there are any horror stories. *GP*

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler
Date: 02 Oct 00 - 11:19 AM

Wot, no plastic Macaferries?
RtS

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 02 Oct 00 - 11:25 AM

Well actually Roger, I DO have a plastic Macaferri hanging on the wall. They haven't seemed to catch pn with the bluegrass-old time crowd.

Rick

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler
Date: 02 Oct 00 - 11:30 AM

I knew that,Rick, just tryin' to tease!
RtS (get the scond horse's head yet?)

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: MichaelM
Date: 02 Oct 00 - 07:17 PM

Time to form the Guitar Nostalagia Induction Circle. We all start off with one killer guitar that anyone would give that otherwise useless little finger (right hand) to own. We sell the guitar to the person on our left for a token $500 and buy the guitar on our right for $500. We get to keep this guitar for one or two years and then sell it to the left. About every ten years or so you get your original guitar back. This gives us an ongoing supply of the "one that got away" stories eg. that pre-war D-45 that got sold to make that first mortgage payment. And every ten years we get back that lost sheep. We also get to brag about buying stunning guitars for pawnshop prices: "$500 for a National Tricone!".

So if the person on my right will just send me their guitar... let the games begin!

Michael

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 02 Oct 00 - 07:27 PM

Since I'm starting with the Harmony,I like the idea of this game!

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: SINSULL
Date: 02 Oct 00 - 08:46 PM

I've got a flea market Aria. This works for me.

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 02 Oct 00 - 09:16 PM

Michael, how 'bout my banjo uke, now if the person next to me wants to hand over a Laskin...I'll take it. Tell us about your new "Rainsong".

Rick

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: GUEST,Steve Latimer
Date: 02 Oct 00 - 09:54 PM

So I went to the string link for the Twelfth Fret. I then made the mistake of linking to their vintage and used instruments. You can get lost in there, some of the guitars that are mentioned here are listed.

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 03 Oct 00 - 10:38 AM

Careful Steve, that's one of the first dangerous steps! It can lead to serious GAS!

Sort of like Chinese food. The first time someone talks you into NOT ordering fried rice, but going for the stuffed crab claws, can be life changing.

Rick

Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 03 Oct 00 - 10:58 AM

I saw a circa 1966 Gibson ES 175 that may have been bought new by my father. Same colour, same era, and it stayed in Toronto when he sold it. I realize that it was a very popular guitar with Jazz players and that there were probably several in Toronto at that time, but you never know. I know Susan would love to have that one today. Recently someone loaned her a circa 1949 ES-125 that she is afraid to take out of the house.

I also browsed through their sold section. Who is buying $12,000 guitars?

And Rick, for me it was the time that someone talked me out of going for Chinese and trying Indian instead. I haven't been the same since.