Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafemuddy

Post to this Thread - Sort Descending - Printer Friendly - Home


Frankie and Johnny - historical basis

DigiTrad:
FRANKIE AND ALBERT
FRANKIE AND ALBERT
FRANKIE AND JOHNNY
FRANKIE SILVERS
LEAVING HOME
MAGGIE WAS A LADY (Frankie & Johnny variant)


Related threads:
Lyr Req: older/raunchier 'Frankie and Johnny' (36)
Lyr Add: Stripey and Blondie (Cyril Tawney) (11)
Lyr Req: New Frankie & Johnny (Gibson/Silverstein) (20)
(origins) Origin of Ed McCurdy song 'Josie'? (12)
(origins) Origins: History on Frankie and Johnny (23)
Frankie & Johnny: The Facts on Planetslade (3)
Lyr/Chords Req: Frankie and Johnny (Leadbelly) (6)
Lyr Req: Frankie and Albert (Charlie Patton) (6)
Lyr Req: Frankie and Johnny (Nick Nichols) (9)
Meaning? FRANKIE & JOHNNNY phrase (25)
Lyr/Chords Req: The New Frankie And Johnny Song (10)
Lyr Req: Frankie & Johnny (Mike Seeger Version) (6)


Earl 20 Aug 97 - 12:13 PM
Barry Finn 22 Aug 97 - 06:31 PM
Earl 24 Aug 97 - 06:24 PM
LaMarca 25 Aug 97 - 09:43 AM
Earl 25 Aug 97 - 02:52 PM
GUEST,ABandK4ever@aol.com 28 Feb 06 - 06:21 PM
GUEST,hnsh 17 Sep 06 - 05:52 AM
Charlie Baum 17 Sep 06 - 11:30 AM
Lighter 17 Sep 06 - 12:12 PM
GUEST 17 Sep 06 - 03:25 PM
GUEST 17 Sep 06 - 03:45 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 17 Sep 06 - 05:11 PM
GUEST 17 Sep 06 - 05:16 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 17 Sep 06 - 06:35 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 17 Sep 06 - 10:04 PM
GUEST,thurg 17 Sep 06 - 10:08 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 17 Sep 06 - 10:51 PM
Lighter 18 Sep 06 - 03:01 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 18 Sep 06 - 08:29 PM
GUEST 18 Sep 06 - 11:02 PM
Phil Cooper 18 Sep 06 - 11:08 PM
GUEST,John Garst 20 Jan 07 - 04:41 PM
Liz the Squeak 23 Mar 07 - 04:38 AM
TinDor 29 Aug 09 - 04:34 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 29 Aug 09 - 04:01 PM
Stewie 18 Oct 09 - 08:59 PM
GUEST,Paul Slade 19 Oct 09 - 04:38 AM
GUEST,Joseph Scott 17 Nov 14 - 01:31 PM
Mrrzy 17 Nov 14 - 01:51 PM
Lighter 17 Nov 14 - 04:04 PM
mayomick 18 Nov 14 - 08:18 AM
GUEST,Joseph Scott 18 Nov 14 - 12:15 PM
GUEST,Joseph Scott 18 Nov 14 - 12:28 PM
Humperdinkysaurus 25 Feb 16 - 09:47 AM
Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:









Subject: Frankie and Johnny
From: Earl
Date: 20 Aug 97 - 12:13 PM

I have heard that the song "Frankie and Johnny" is based on an actual event. Does anyone know where and when it took place?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Frankie and Johnny
From: Barry Finn
Date: 22 Aug 97 - 06:31 PM

Frankie & Johnny, Frankie & Albert (said to be the older), Frankies Blues, Sadie or Josie, was, according to Sandburg, already popular among railroaders of the west & along the Mississippi River by 1888, and makes no guess as to the orgins. Lomax says of a woman named Frankie Silvers became the heroine of a ballad, though probaly not the direct ancestor of the Frankies', after chopping up her no good husband, with an axe, on the Toe River (at the Head of the Toe?), North Carolina, in 1831. He also reports that there were claims that it was sung by Federal troops before Vicksburg in 1863. Barry


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Frankie and Johnny
From: Earl
Date: 24 Aug 97 - 06:24 PM

Barry, Thanks for the info. I wanted some history for a set of American murder songs to perform a festival (yesterday.) "The Erotic Muse" said Frankie was a St.Louis whore who shot Johnnie (or Albert) around the turn of the century. I went with that. The great thing about folk songs is the deeper you go the muddier it gets. Anyway, I knew someone here would have the answer.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Frankie and Johnny
From: LaMarca
Date: 25 Aug 97 - 09:43 AM

Earl, there's a great collection called "American Murder Ballads" by Olive Wooley Burt, which has lyrics and histories for a whole slew of songs. It's out of print, now, but you might be able to get a copy from your local library or through inter-library loan. Two of our dear friends gave a copy of it to us as a wedding present, with the comment that we were not to use it as an instruction manual...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Frankie and Johnny
From: Earl
Date: 25 Aug 97 - 02:52 PM

Thanks LaMarca. I actually have a copy of "American Murder Ballads" on order, I think the UPS strike has held up delivery. I saw it mentioned elsewhere on the web and went looking for it. Although it is out of print I found it at Camsco an excellent source for music books.

Good advice from your friends, we always say if you can sing about it you don't have to do it.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Frankie and Johnny - historical basis
From: GUEST,ABandK4ever@aol.com
Date: 28 Feb 06 - 06:21 PM

Hi my name is Barbara Waddill. I am related to Frankie and Johnny.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Frankie and Johnny - historical basis
From: GUEST,hnsh
Date: 17 Sep 06 - 05:52 AM

how duz da oem go r fter dis line

frankie and johny were luvers oh my fgawd hhow day did luv


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Frankie and Johnny - historical basis
From: Charlie Baum
Date: 17 Sep 06 - 11:30 AM

http://bluegrassmessengers.com/master/frankie1.html


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Frankie and Johnny - historical basis
From: Lighter
Date: 17 Sep 06 - 12:12 PM

The link provided by Charlie Baum offers a lot of good information.

There's virtually no similarity between "Frankie and Johnny/ Albert" and "Frankie Silvers." (Follow the links at the top of the page to the "Silvers" texts in DT.)

Sandburg's reference to "Frankie and Johnny/ Albert" being sung in 1888 is almost certainly mistaken. The various versions known today are ultimately based on the 1899 murder of Al Britt in St. Louis.

The lively "Leavin' Home" version was composed in 1911-12 by the Leighton Bros., a popular vaudeville team. I've seen the sheet music.

Randolph-Legman gives a lot of information on all of this. Bruce Buckley wrote a dissertation on the whole issue of "F & J" at Indiana University back in 1962. Since then there have been no significant new discoveries about the origin of the song.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Frankie and Johnny - historical basis
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Sep 06 - 03:25 PM

From the www

"Frankie and Johnny
CBM 177
This lecture explores the origins of the Frankie and Johnny story and song which began with the murder of Allen Brit by Frankie Baker in 1901. It traces the development of the song through Mae West, Guy Lombardo, and Johnny Cash."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Frankie and Johnny - historical basis
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Sep 06 - 03:45 PM

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:xKypX0cgA0EJ:bluegrassmessengers.com/master/frankie1.html+allen+britt,+frankie+baker&hl=en&g


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Frankie and Johnny - historical basis
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Sep 06 - 05:11 PM

It is better to go directly to the website of the Bluegrass Messengers. Related materials in other songs are accessed more easily:
www.bluegrassmessengers.com/bluelyrics.html
Messengers

Scroll down on their Bluegrass Lyrics Page to # 3, 'Fiddle Tunes and Instrumental Tune Lyrics'.
One may go directly to this section by using www.bluegrassmessengers/fiddle.html
Fiddle

Scroll down to the versions (10 of them) of Frankie and Johnny.
Much of the material is in Mudcat threads, since the Messengers used to post in them, and used material from them posted by others.

The link posted by Charlie Baum gets directly to "Frankie."

I hope that the Messengers will be able to fill in some of the other categories. Their "Fiddle Tunes ..." category is very helpful.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Frankie and Johnny - historical basis
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Sep 06 - 05:16 PM

Thanks, Q.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Frankie and Johnny - historical basis
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 17 Sep 06 - 06:35 PM

Ummmm, GUEST...it was 1899.

FRANKIE AND JOHNNIE

The FRANK C. BROWN COLLECTION of NORTH CAROLINA FOLKLORE Volume Four, "The Music of the Ballads," Durhan, North Carolin, Duke University Press, 1957, p 293.

"Frankie and Johnnie." Sung by Miss Fannie Grogan and Miss Lura Weaver. Recorded as MS SCORE at Vox, Alleghany county, in 1936. In the long headnote various detail brought out by II 589-90, there is no mention of R. W. Gordon, who, according to Mary O. Eddy (Ballads and Songs of Ohio 246) is "undoubtedly the world's authority on Frankie and Johnnie." Mr. Gordon, she says, "is reputed to have collected at least three hundred texts" and in 1936 said the "the woman of the story was still living." She cites another source in the New York ITimes October 21, 1934, by Sigmund Spaeth."

GORDON - worked for the Library of Congress as the first Head of the Archive of American Folk Song.
http://www.loc.gov/folklife/Gordon/photos.html

SPAETH - Wrote several essays on F&L and was in the film

FRANKIE AND JOHNNIE' STRIKE A DISCORD; A Controversy Now Rages Concerning the Ownership of the Famous Ditty and the Identification of the Characters It Glorifies

NEW YORK TIMES - Section: MAGAZINE, Page SM18 (1384 words)
Oct 21, 1934, Sunday
By SIGMUND SPAETH

" WHAT was once a ribald ditty has become the material of a doctoral thesis. Frankie and Johnnie, whose love affair has become notorious in every convivial circle, are now subjects for learned controversies in folklore."

http://www.newyorktimes.com

HOWEVER, Spaeth appears, in the fashion of other infamous TIMES journalists to of spread the truth thin.

RANDOLOPH, VANCE Roll Me in Your Arms "Unprintable Ozark Folksongs and Folklore," Vol I, "Folksongs and Music," Edited by G. Legman, University of Arkansas Press, Fayetteville, 1992, p477-484.

"...Randolph presents an excellent old text...in Ozark Folksongs,....

"It should be observed carefully that the original song, dating from 1899 to about 1912, can be identified by these three features if not four...." For bawdy texts see: Gordon manuscripts, Silverman (1982) and Droke.

"In 1911, a vaudeville team, the Leighton Brothers, rewrote the existing song into the form now popular; downplaying the fact that its (un)repentant bitch-heroine is a Negro prostitute by omittting the opening stanza and for some reason also changing her murdered pimp's name from Albert (actually Allen Britt) to Johnny, for the first time. This version was copyrighted in 1912..."

"Randolph has given the full background in Ozark Folksongs.... The song is based on the actual cold-blooded killing in St. Louis, Missouri, of and eighteen-year-old Negro "sporting man." ....as reported in the St. Louis Post-Dispatch for October 19, 1899, page 8 column 2. Randolph states that Britt was living "with mulatto Frankie at 212 Targee Street - where the Miniipal Auditorium now stands. The shooting took place Oct. 15, 1899, and Britt died four days later."

"In 1939 she brought a 200,000 damage suit against Republic Pictures for defamation of character and invasion of her privacy." Republic pictures bluffed that the song is based upon a weak folk-ballad concerning the axe-murder by Frankie Silver of her husband at Toe River, North Carolina in 1831. There is no line of proof to support the Toe River assertion. Frankie is a common nickname for prostitutes in England and America for four centuries.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Frankie and Johnny - historical basis
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Sep 06 - 10:04 PM

The versions collected by Gordon are not mentioned by Duncan Emrich, a later successor as Chief of the Folklore Section of the Library of Congress. His "American Folk Poetry," p. 726, has a late version collected by Henry in 1930.
Why a late version? And no history.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Frankie and Johnny - historical basis
From: GUEST,thurg
Date: 17 Sep 06 - 10:08 PM

"Frankie is a common nickname for prostitutes in England and America for four centuries."


Anyone come across this notion before?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Frankie and Johnny - historical basis
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Sep 06 - 10:51 PM

New to me.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Frankie and Johnny - historical basis
From: Lighter
Date: 18 Sep 06 - 03:01 PM

One of the Restoration drolleries (can't recall which one) does indeed include a song mentioning a young lady named "Frankie." I'll try to dig it up.

Exept for the name (a nickname for "Frances"), the song bears no resemblance to "Frankie & Johnny." But the nickname is older than one might have thought.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Frankie and Johnny - historical basis
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Sep 06 - 08:29 PM

In the southwest, sometimes used for Francisco. Heard it used for Francesca. These, of course, belong with Francis-Frances.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Frankie and Johnny - historical basis
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Sep 06 - 11:02 PM

GARGOYLE'S source for the "Frankie = prostitute" is given above:

RANDOLOPH, VANCE Roll Me in Your Arms "Unprintable Ozark Folksongs and Folklore," Vol I, "Folksongs and Music," Edited by G. Legman, University of Arkansas Press, Fayetteville, 1992, p477-484.

Anyone doubting the "John" insinuation needs only to scan their local police blotter.

On GUEST's behalf the Historical Random House Dictionary of American Slang gives no reference to "Frankie=prostitute."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Frankie and Johnny - historical basis
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 18 Sep 06 - 11:08 PM

Also check the book The Rose & the Briar for their essay on the background of the song.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Frankie and Johnny - historical basis
From: GUEST,John Garst
Date: 20 Jan 07 - 04:41 PM

Phil Cooper wrote:

>Also check the book The Rose & the Briar for their essay on the background of the song.

I advise caution. Without citing evidence, this essay states, "Britt's given name was Albert, but he was also known as 'Allen.'"

I have found no evidence of this. He is Allen, apparently, in all official records. Frankie Baker is quoted as saying that he liked to be called "Albert" but even this is suspect. She might well have said "Al Britt" and been misheard as saying "Albert." There is testimony that he was called "Al." It is highly probable that such a mishearing is responsible for the appearance of "Albert" in the ballad.

One or two collected versions begin

"Frankie Baker was a good girl"

instead of the more common

"Frankie was a good girl"

If one whole name was used then the other probably was, too, something like

"Al Britt's suit of clothes"

misheard as

"Albert's suit of clothes"

Consistent with the hypothesis of early whole name use is the treatment of Alice Pryor, the "other woman." Her whole name is almost always given, though never entirely correctly. She is "Alice Pry, "Alice Bly," "Nellie Bly," etc.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Frankie and Johnny - historical basis
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 23 Mar 07 - 04:38 AM

Dammit, you rotten sod! Refreshing this has just put the song back in my head, but being me, it's got it's own twist.

I don't know where else it's found, but in the UK we have a chain of 'New York/Italian family restaurants' called 'Frankie and Benny's'. Now my brain has irrevocably linked these two items and every time I go past a F&B restaurant, I can't help but sing:

Frankie and Benny were lovers....


Not been thrown out of one yet, but it's a near thing!

LTS


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Frankie and Johnny - historical basis
From: TinDor
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 04:34 AM

Interesting link

Click Kiel Opera House and Four Courts
and
the story of
Frankie and Johnny


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Frankie and Johnny - historical basis
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 04:01 PM

Thanks, a good summary.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Frankie and Johnny - historical basis
From: Stewie
Date: 18 Oct 09 - 08:59 PM

You can hear the earliest recordings of the ballad by Bernard and Crumit HERE

The recording by Al Bernard in May 1921 (Brunswick 2107B) preceded Frank Crumit's effort by a few months. Bernard, who was from the minstrel tradition and performed coon songs and early jazz-related material, was quite popular in his day. He had some similarity to Emmett Miller, but never approached Miller's vocal eccentricity. Albeit he was not particularly distinguished, his recording of 'Frankie and Johnny' is of some historical interest.

--Stewie.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Frankie and Johnny - historical basis
From: GUEST,Paul Slade
Date: 19 Oct 09 - 04:38 AM

If I can be of any help:

It's a Frame-up: Frankie & Johnny


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Frankie and Johnny - historical basis
From: GUEST,Joseph Scott
Date: 17 Nov 14 - 01:31 PM

The source of the persistent stories about this song being sung before the 1870s is Thomas Beer. Here is Stephen Crane expert Paul Sorrentino describing Beer's biography of Stephen Crane: "Beer had altered the chronology of Crane's life, invented incidents, and composed letters allegedly from Crane. The pattern of fabrication is evident from the onset. Letters supposedly written by Crane are quoted in an early draft of the biography, then substantially revised in a later draft to fit scenarios involving other people, who, it turns out, are themselves apparently fictional."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Frankie and Johnny - historical basis
From: Mrrzy
Date: 17 Nov 14 - 01:51 PM

This is such a fun forum. Did they really have descendants?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Frankie and Johnny - historical basis
From: Lighter
Date: 17 Nov 14 - 04:04 PM

Folklorist Gershon Legman wrote that he once contacted Beer for the source of his "information" that "F&J" was sung in the 1870s.

Legman pointedly noted that he never received a reply.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Frankie and Johnny - historical basis
From: mayomick
Date: 18 Nov 14 - 08:18 AM

I read at Paul Slade's link from five years ago that the killing " took place just a few blocks from where Stagger Lee had killed Billy Lions four years before " and that Frankie and Johnnie and Stagolee "have always tended to get tangled up with one another " .

To me, "Hop Joint" -as sung by Mississipi John Hurt - sounds more closely related to Frankie and Johnnie than Stagolee does .
The Planet Slade article notes:
"There was a long razor scar down the side of her [Frankie's]face she got in her teens from a girl who was jealous of her. "

Hurt has a version of Stagolee , which may have been a bit like Frankie and Johnnie , but Hop Joint has these two lines :
I gotta brand new razor and a forty-four gun /gonna cut you if you stay here ,shoot you if you run


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Frankie and Johnny - historical basis
From: GUEST,Joseph Scott
Date: 18 Nov 14 - 12:15 PM

According to the first-hand account of police detective Lieutenant Ira Cooper (born 1877), who heard plenty of music at dives whether he liked it or not, St. Louis pianist Bill Dooley wrote a version of "Frankie" about the death of fellow St. Louis pianist Al Britt in late 1899. Dooley very likely would have known "Stack-a-lee," which we know was around by 1897. Those 12-bar bad man ballads tended to blend into each other. Not just floaters about buggies and hacks and the like, as we often hear mentioned, but lines from "Boll Weevil" into lines in the ballads about men, for instance.

"Hop Joint" was apparently better-known in roughly 1901 than we usually see suggested, and as Peter Muir has pointed out, the Scarborough version of "Hop Joint" that mentions Bill Bailey hints at the possibility of a folk ballad about Bill Bailey that inspired the pop songs about Bill Bailey. (There is no reasonable doubt that the clique of songwriters who wrote the pop Bill Bailey cycle were being significantly influenced by black folk music.)

As far as we can tell, all of that cross-fertilization of clearly 12-bar ballads in many states -- from "The Carrier Line" to "Fighting In The War With Spain," and as far as we can tell all starting with "The Bully" in maybe 1893 (Handy's autobiography isn't entirely reliable on dates) -- all that was going on for about _a decade_ before the folk blues songs that explicitly mentioned having the "blues" arose (in about 1905 or 1906).

As if that weren't complicated enough, the clearly 12-bar songs also blend into the pretty nearly 12-bar songs that go straight from IV to V, a la "Take A One On Me," and if you go far enough down that road and you get to tunes related to "Take A One On Me" that no one seemed to think were 12-bar such as "Alabama Bound," and also there's the 8-bar IV-IV-I-I-V-V-I-I or roughly 8-bar songs similar to "Bucket's Got A Hole In It" or the Pratcher Brothers' "If It's All Night Long" -- there's no reasonable doubt that that's _all_ connected (possibly all before anyone put the word "blues" in any of them). Phew!

Part of Hurt's charm was that he didn't know what the songs were really about very well, which ironically is good, because he was effectively a man with a great memory taking snapshots in roughly 1902-1917 of a lot of different people's songs that were around on front porches, next to train tracks, etc. As opposed to say Leadbelly with whom you have to sort out whether he had decided an English ballad would sound good if mixed with something else on _that_ particular day.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Frankie and Johnny - historical basis
From: GUEST,Joseph Scott
Date: 18 Nov 14 - 12:28 PM

"as far as we can tell all starting with 'The Bully' in maybe 1893" Well, we know that the existence of 12-bar songs at all long predates the 1890s (e.g. "Rain Fall And Wet Becca Lawton"). But I was talking about the specific songs we know of that seem to be connected to each other. (It's pretty obvious that 12-bar songs can't have been very popular in the U.S. in the 1870s-1880s if you read enough Lafcadio Hearn, Thomas Talley, etc.)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Frankie and Johnny - historical basis
From: Humperdinkysaurus
Date: 25 Feb 16 - 09:47 AM

I wonder if anyone can help with a question about the tune history?

As I understand it we're talking about two quite distinct ones:

(1) 'Frankie and Albert [Johnny]', page 84 in Dorothy Scarborough's 'On the trail of negro folk songs'. The one most of us grew up with, as performed by King Oliver, Johnny Cash et al.

(2) 'Frankie', Scarborough page 83 – the John Hurt version.

Do we know which Bill Dooley is to be credited with? I notice Joseph Scott is careful to say Dooley "wrote a version" of the song in the aftermath of the event, but do we know what it was like (beyond being performed as a dirge)? Was it a version of (1) which then via Hughie Cannon (1904) and the Leighton Bros (1908) wound up as Leightons / Shields (1912) and conquered the world from there? Or don't we know?

Is there a tradition attached to (2), apart from what Scarborough tells us on page 83?

I notice Scarborough called (1) the 'less frequent' version in 1925, suggesting (2) was still the more common at that time. But 'still' begs the question. In 'Big road blues' (p45) David Evans says MJH's "recording of this piece is probably typical of the way it was performed around 1910 and earlier". I'm unclear whether by "this piece" he means (2), or whether he is suggesting that until around 1910 or perhaps later (2) would have been the dominant Frankie song, being displaced at some point thereafter by (1).

Although a little run-down of the known history would be appreciated, any answer to my basic question would be useful. It's as simple as: in describing 'Frankie and Albert' as a 12-bar so-called blues ballad, as they often do, what version do scholars have in mind? Is it (2) or an original form of (1)? Or don't we know?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
  Share Thread:
More...

Reply to Thread
Subject:  Help
From:
Preview   Automatic Linebreaks   Make a link ("blue clicky")


Mudcat time: 14 December 8:22 AM EST

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.