Is the guitar a traditional instrument?

Subject: RE: Is the guitar a traditional instrument?
From: GUEST,Murray MacLeod
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 07:16 PM

In Scottish and Irish music, I always used to feel the guitar sat uneasily. I loathe the so-called "Shetland" style (as pioneered by Peerie Willie ) which consists of choppily strummed chords much like jazz guitar. I have always felt that fingerstyle accompaniment would be much more suitable.
Today, of course, redemption has arrived in the shape of Tony McManus, the world'd greatest guitarist, in whose hads the guitar sounds as much at home in the music as the fiddle or the pipes.

Murray

Subject: RE: Is the guitar a traditional instrument?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 07:10 PM

There isn't just one tradition. Nose flutes are traditional in some places. Using a guitar as an accompaniment to singing is a relatively modern tradition in Northern Europe anyway (by which I mean in the first instance the offshore islands). This also goes for using any instrument as an accompaniment.

Accompanied singing with Northern European songs by now is a tradition, and it is a good enough tradition, but there should never be a sense that it is the only way to do it, or that unacconpanied singing is any kind of second best.

And there's types of music, like blues or flamenco, where having a guitar accomopaniment is much more central.

But it's always the instrument accomopanies the voice, not the other way round. (It's more the other way round with music being played for dancing.)

Subject: RE: Is the guitar a traditional instrument?
From: Ely
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 07:09 PM

Is this another thing that depends on where you are and what kind of music you're playing? Piano accompaniment seems to be fairly common here (American midwest) but I pretty much never see it at home (American south). I see accordions at home only for Cajun, German, or Latino music, but they're pretty common here even for "regular" old-time. On the other hand, where would the blues be without the guitar?

I do see some songs sung unaccompanied, though, and we do shape-note singing, which of course uses no instruments. But mostly, we need our guitars and basses to keep us together.

Subject: RE: Is the guitar a traditional instrument?
From: catspaw49
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 07:05 PM

Only if you stick a patch cord up the ass of the Morris Dancers.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Is the guitar a traditional instrument?
From: Lucius
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 06:57 PM

I've been playing guitar for forty years, though I don't seem to be getting any better. On the other hand, I've also been singing for forty years--no improvements--but I don't care as much. The unaccompanied voice has a honesty that appeals beyond the quality of the singer.

On the other hand, I play electric guitar for a Morris dance team, does that make it traditional?

Lucius

Subject: RE: Is the guitar a traditional instrument?
From: catspaw49
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 06:49 PM

Good thread Bert.

My experience growing up was sorta' like paddy's. My Mom too was a brilliant pianist and also had an excellent voice. At home, we sang at the piano and other times we just sang. Sadly none of this improved my voice, but singing was an integral part of almost everything we did. My grandfather played some 5-string and there was a succession of fun instruments around, but singing was the thing. My Mom was always in demand and was a natural musical talent. She read complex scores and could also accompany almost anything popular by ear, in any key, at the drop of a hat.

Outside of that "learn to Play Hawaian Guitar" crap that was so popular in the 50's (usually tied in with an Accordion studio), guitar was never a big instrument around where I grew up. There were a lot more banjos, mandos, and fiddles. I think the 60's brought the guitar to the fore, both electrical and acoustic. That's strictly an opinion, there were many greats well before that. But the level of popularity seems to have skyrocketed during that time, at least to me it seems.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Is the guitar a traditional instrument?
From: mousethief
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 06:40 PM

Is the guitar a traditional instrument? Ask Rev. Gary Davis, Charlie Patton, Big Bill Broonzy, Blind Lemon Jefferson, etc., etc., etc.

I'm wondering if claiming that the guitar is NOT a traditional instrument, might be racist.

Alex
O..O
=o=

Subject: RE: Is the guitar a traditional instrument?
From: sophocleese
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 06:34 PM

Well bert I know I used to get annoyed with every bloody guitar toting, non-stop twiddling idiot at our song circle. However since I've picked up the guitar and started trying to accompany myself my views have changed a little. Whenever I want to sing unaccompanied now and the guitar nits don't take their hands off the strings I yell "Shut up! I'm about to sing." Its part of the reason I prefer circles and get togethers where there's some degree of ordered turn taking.

My parents used to sing in the car a lot and we'd join in. The rot entered the system when my older, teenage brother started guitar and therefore didn't ever want to hear anybody singing even slightly out of tune. He'd either hit me till I shut up or pull out his harmonica to play over me till I shut up.

I think there has been a deep shift away from songs as things that are sung for pleasure by anybody to music that is performed by the select few for the benefit of the others. Its hard to simply sing as you do your work if there's other music always being played over a sound system. I get comments when I'm walking down the street singing to myself.

Subject: RE: Is the guitar a traditional instrument?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 06:32 PM

Hi Bert. Good thread.

I went to a Canadian Old time Fiddlers gathering a couple of years ago. They meet once a month in a school auditorium. Everyone (most were 60 plus) was pretty friendly until they saw my guitar. One woman said to me, "you might as well leave that in it's case, we don't DO American music"!!!!

The only accompaniement to the fiddles that night was piano (played in turn by several women), other than one brave soul who'd brought a hammer dulcimer. He was obviously tougher than me and played along all night. I just sat and watched.

I guess "when in Rome...." but I think I prefer the American approach....'specially Texas. They don't even mind if you IMPROVISE!

I suspect I felt a little like an unaccompanied balladeer at a modern jam session.

Rick

Subject: RE: Is the guitar a traditional instrument?
From: paddymac
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 06:22 PM

My early experiences seem much the same as yours, Bert. My mother was a brilliant pianist/organist and often played at social gatherings in the home, including group singing. "Solo" singing was usually unaccompanied, mostly, she said, because a pianist should always support the singer, never compete with him/her. Many piano players don't seem to have that kind of sensitivity.

Instrumentalists sometimes (maybe oftentimes is more accurate) seem not to realize that mechanical playing imposes a rigidity on the vocalist that can interfere with his interpretation of the song. They also often seem not to recognize that the natural human vocal scale is not concert pitch. Thus, uniformed instrumentalists will criticize a singer for being "off pitch" when it is really the player who is "off" the vocal pitch, even though "on" concert pitch. A good accompanist, whatever the instrument, has to listen, I mean really listen, to the singer.

The tradition of unaccompanied singing is alive and well in Ireland, where it is called "sean nos" (old style). I presume many or most other cultures have a similar vocal tradition, competing for breathing room in our global mass culture.

I don't mean to criticize the "modern classicist" ear, but do wish to emphasize that it is not the only path to musical enjoyment.

I also believe that there are many perfectly good singers who seem "trapped" by their instruments; maybe even afraid to vocalize without the crutch.

Hmm, this might be a good time to duck out (literally, as it's raining here at the moment) for a few pints.

Subject: Is the guitar a traditional instrument?
From: Bert
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 05:48 PM

I grew up in a culture where singing was normal. We'd sing at parties, we'd sing at school, we'd sing on bus trips and in pubs. But no one 'ever' had a guitar, not in twenty years. There might be someone who would play the piano in the pub but more often than not all singing was unaccompanied.

Now it seems that if you go to a song circle you often don't get a turn to sing unless you have a guitar.

Your thoughts!

Bert.