BS: the word 'Diversity'

Subject: the word 'Diversity'
From: Charcloth
Date: 09 Oct 00 - 11:14 PM

it seems that everybody is using the word "diversity" And I don't want to be a stick in the mud but I am having trouble warming up to that word. Now don't get me wrong the last thing I want is for everybody to be like this here old Charred one. But it seems to me that the root of the word is "divide" I think people are divided & alienated enough, why don't we call it "variety" or "eclectic" either would have a more uniting tone to it & yet allow us all to be what our heritage & personal expierences allows us to be. I would much rather be united with some one than than be divided or seperate from them. Am I the only one who feels this way?

Subject: RE: BS: the word 'Diversity'
From: Gary T
Date: 10 Oct 00 - 12:28 AM

The roots might be more properly summed up as "turning apart" rather than "dividing"--not a huge difference, but perhaps implying a lesser degree of separation. I can't say I have the same reaction to the word that you profess, though I'm sure you're not alone in your feelings (though you may be in a rather small minority). From a functional point of view, the word, as defined, is probably the most accurate for uses it's applied to. The other words you mention might very well fit into a long discussion of the topic, and help avoid monotonous repetition of "diversity", but they don't really mean exactly the same thing. I see it being used in attempts to achieve some of the uniting you long for, by encouraging people to intermix with those they are already separated from in some fashion. The message usually seems to be "immerse yourself into groupings of diverse people, rather than just sticking with your own kind." Looking at it from this angle, perhaps you'll find the word less disturbing. Unfortunately, the intermingling and uniting tend to be implied, while the diverseness is specifically mentioned, and I can see where this could lead to a perception that differences are being overemphasized. I think it helps to "read between the lines" when you hear people talking about "diversity".

Going off on a tangent, there was a political ad (local to Missouri or the Kansas City area, I believe), where a mother was lamenting her son's involvement with drugs etc. after attending an integrated school, saying "it was more diversity than he could handle." It was rather transparently equating diversity with undesirable segments of society. It raised quite a stink for being racist, and critics lambasted the ad writer for giving the word "diversity" a thinly veiled negative connotation. The ad was yanked in short order.

Subject: RE: BS: the word 'Diversity'
From: GUEST,John Hill
Date: 10 Oct 00 - 12:27 PM

"Diversity" ... The root of this word is not divide. It comes from the latin word diversus which means altered. Also Websters on-line directory gives "variety" as the nearest similar word. It would seem that it is being used quite correctly to me.

Subject: RE: BS: the word 'Diversity'
From: GUEST,John Hill
Date: 10 Oct 00 - 12:28 PM

Sorry .. I meant on-line dictionary...

Subject: RE: BS: the word 'Diversity'
From: catspaw49
Date: 10 Oct 00 - 12:33 PM

Thank you John.........

Luvya Char, but take two aspirin and call me in the morning.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: the word 'Diversity'
From: mousethief
Date: 10 Oct 00 - 12:50 PM

Part of the problem is confusing a word's etymology with its current meaning. Wherever the word came from, whatever its roots in Latin are, may have nothing whatsoever to do with what it currently means. Consider the word "awful" which came from "awe" and "full" -- full of awe. Now it means "really bad." When someone tastes something and says, "ew, that tastes awful" we don't correct them and say, "now how can it taste like it's full of awe?" I mean maybe some people do, but nobody I know does (I hope!). It would be very stupid, I'm sure everybody here agrees.

Similarly for diversity. It is the noun form of "diverse" which means varied, heterogeneous, etc. Period. Latin roots are irrelevant.

But what do I know?

Alex
O..O
=o=

Subject: RE: BS: the word 'Diversity'
From: khandu
Date: 10 Oct 00 - 12:54 PM

While we are discussing a word that bugs Charcloth, I will take the opportunity to discuss words that bug me. (Sorry for temporarily stealing your stump, Char!) "Went ballistic". I hate that phrase. And it has gained such popularity since Johnnie Cochran used it during the so-called "Trial of the Century". Ballistics is the science dealing with motion and impact of projectiles. It does not fit to say "He went ballistic." "Closure" has become overused. Perhaps it is grammatically correct to say "We need closure on this situation", but it bugs me. It seems that words become "trendy", and we find ourselves using such only because "everybody does it". There are many others, but I will get off the stump, before Char goes ballistic! khandu

Subject: RE: BS: the word 'Diversity'
From: catspaw49
Date: 10 Oct 00 - 12:55 PM

I dunno MT...........I am personally "full of awe" over Head Cheese. I think that encompasses all the meanings of awful in one bite.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: the word 'Diversity'
From: GUEST,AMOS
Date: 10 Oct 00 - 01:14 PM

Time out!

The notion that the roots and passages of a word are "irrelevant" is the most profoundly wrongheaded notion Mousethief has ever uttered.

Without being sensitized to the difference between divisus and diversus, Char's confusion would make perfect sense and the communication meant by those using the word diverse/diversity would have gone brutally misunderstood by some or perhaps many.

A word is no more free of its past than a human is free of his genetic past. In fact the only way to fully comprehend a word is to have a sense of how to got to where it is. For example, "going ballistic" makes absolutely no sense if you maintain the referent of "the science of projectile motion" as the referent. But any cultural halfwit knows that between that sense of the word and the expression, there was interposed a long and scarey period during which the term "ICBM" (intercontinetal ballistic missile) captured the nation's nightmares. So going ballistic does not mean "heading toward the science of projectiles", but "acting mindlessly destructive like a nuclear missile would", and in that context it makes perfect sense as a piece of poetic street slang.

A

Subject: RE: BS: the word 'Diversity'
From: khandu
Date: 10 Oct 00 - 01:18 PM

Okay, but it still bugs me!

khandu

Subject: RE: BS: the word 'Diversity'
From: GUEST,John Hill
Date: 10 Oct 00 - 02:14 PM

Surely the main point was that the original poster of this message was confusing a completely different word i.e divide with the origin of diversity. This maybe explains the apparent misunderstanding of its meaning.

Subject: RE: BS: the word 'Diversity'
From: GUEST,Amos
Date: 10 Oct 00 - 02:28 PM

My point exactly: a familiarity with actual versus imagined etymology would have made communication instead of confusion occur. Abandoning history is risky; you may have to re-live it!

A

Subject: RE: BS: the word 'Diversity'
From: mousethief
Date: 10 Oct 00 - 02:42 PM

Yes, Amos, but familiarity with the current meaning of the word coupled with total indifference to the etymology could have accomplished the same thing.

Alex
O..O
=o=

Subject: RE: BS: the word 'Diversity'
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Oct 00 - 03:54 PM

If people can say "bad" and mean "good", as they do, I can't se why there would be anything improbable or stupid in using "awful" to mean "really impressively good" and getting us back to the earlier meaning. In fact, I think I've heard it used in that sense.

(And what about saying something is "awful good", or "awfully good" if you're English?)

What gets me is people using "mean" as a positive word. So far as I can see what is intended is still a pretty nasty set of characteristics - but these are taken as being praiseworthy. (Incidentally, do Americans still recognise the other sense of mean, as equivalent to miserly or stingy?)

Subject: RE: BS: the word 'Diversity'
From: mousethief
Date: 10 Oct 00 - 03:57 PM

McG: No. On this side of the pond, "mean" just means "ornery" or "nasty." Except in the elocution, "a pretty mean X" such as "he makes a pretty mean stew" or "she plays a pretty mean guitar" where it means especially good, for some reason. Then of course there is "mean" meaning "average" but that is only used in semi-technical contexts.

Alex
O..O
=o=

Subject: RE: BS: the word 'Diversity'
From: Charcloth
Date: 10 Oct 00 - 04:41 PM

I would still much rather see on a T shirt or a bumber sticker "let's celebrate varity" than "let's celebrate differsity." Even When you listen to the "popular" radio stations that tout diversity they tend to divide people into different camps. Try getting an office group to agree to a radio station for example & you'll see How divided we are. Oh well it's just my opinon. It still bugs me. One of the things I love about playing "folk" music is watching families unite & dance or sing together instead of sitting in different spots hurling judgements at each other

Subject: RE: BS: the word 'Diversity'
From: catspaw49
Date: 10 Oct 00 - 05:55 PM

Sorry Char, but your spelling on variety above and being close to celebrate remoinds me of a Roadhouse just outside of Soddy-Daisy, Tennessee. Someone new came along in the early eighties and reopened this dive with a fresh coat of paint and a huge new professionally done sign out front. They called the place "Celebrate"....sadly, the sign painter must have been paid ahead in trade, because one side was missing the "R".......Its still spelled wrong, but you just KNEW you weren't going to get any action in that dive!

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: the word 'Diversity'
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Oct 00 - 07:41 PM

I remember (and this is true) when our local Childminders Association in Harlow put out a notice advertising a "Pubic Display"

Subject: RE: BS: the word 'Diversity'
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Oct 00 - 07:49 PM

But I digress. Give me "diversity" any day. It pairs up with unity, two sides of the same coin. Variety just sounds like showbiz or chocolates, and it's a fussy little tight word. Eclectic is like a snapping pair of scissors. But "diversity" has a rich open sound to it, and the "vers" in the middle is what gives it that.

In fact I liked the word so much that when my daughter was christened many years ago I insisted on having that as one of her names. But that's another story.

Subject: RE: BS: the word 'Diversity'
From: GUEST,Rose
Date: 10 Oct 00 - 07:53 PM

I like the word "diversity". Moreso, I like the feeling behind it, in honoring and respecting the uniqueness of each person's or a group's diverse-ness.

Words I don't like include prioritize, although it seems to have become mainstream acceptable to turn the word priority into a verb. Grrr... The social services' catchword from the early 90's of "issue" (as in this issue and that issue, and everybody's got issues and everything has become an issue) seems to be replaced with "piece" (as in the educational piece, and this piece, and everything has become a piece of something). ooh, ah. I just want a piece of pie.

Subject: RE: BS: the word 'Diversity'
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Oct 00 - 07:58 PM

"Issue, issue, we all fall down".

Or there is "agenda". As in "the gender agenda of Brenda"

Subject: RE: BS: the word 'Diversity'
From: Amos
Date: 10 Oct 00 - 08:00 PM

I've met a few pieces of diversity which I would have enjoyed prioritizing in my time, but they had too many issues and we never could manage to finalize our efforts to instantiate an interface. Sigh.

A

Subject: RE: BS: the word 'Diversity'
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Oct 00 - 07:38 AM

No McGrath of Harlow you are wrong .. saying "awfully" good is nothing to do with being English. Awfully is an adverb .. necessary if you are "describing" the word good. Awful is an adjective.
I don't like contrived words like "prioritize" either I think its awful .....
To digress a bit further how many of you have noticed that the world has gone apostrophe mad. Every word that ends in "s" seems to have an apostrophe in front of it. I recently saw a sign outside a cafe that had 17 of them. "hot dog's" .. "hamburger's"... the best one was "jacket potatoe's variou's filling's" doesn't anyone understand punctuation anymore?

Subject: RE: BS: the word 'Diversity'
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Oct 00 - 07:43 AM

No McGrath of Harlow you are wrong .. saying "awfully" good is nothing to do with being English. Awfully is an adverb .. necessary if you are "describing" the word good. Awful is an adjective.
I don't like contrived words like "prioritize" either I think its awful .....
To digress a bit further how many of you have noticed that the world has gone apostrophe mad. Every word that ends in "s" seems to have an apostrophe in front of it. I recently saw a sign outside a cafe that had 17 of them. "hot dog's" .. "hamburger's"... the best one was "jacket potatoe's variou's filling's" doesn't anyone understand punctuation anymore?

Subject: RE: BS: the word 'Diversity'
From: LR Mole
Date: 11 Oct 00 - 09:50 AM

Yeah, I do, and it brings me little but helpless irritation.FOR SALE BUNNIE'S, reads a sign near me.Thread creep and related can of worms: when did "bilingual" education come to mean locking people out of English-speaking classes? What city has only two languages that people are functional in?

Subject: RE: BS: the word 'Diversity'
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Oct 00 - 01:39 PM

One reason for the stray apostrophes and mispellings in notices on stalls isn't carelessness at all - it sometimes gets done because it's a sure thing can be sure that every now and again there's going to be some sticklers for grammar walking past, and they'll point out the mistake. And having noticed the notice, maybe they'll buy something.

I've never come across a yank who says they're "awfully glad" - but "awful glad", heard that a few times. Mybe they're doing it to fool me.

While I think it's useful to know the difference between adverbs and adjectives, I also think it's important to recognise that if in some place or time it is common to usde an adverb as an adjective, by virtue of that it becomes an adjective.

That kind of thing explains why we don't speak Chaucerian English, which may be a pity, but that's the way it works.

Subject: RE: BS: the word 'Diversity'
From: Mrrzy
Date: 11 Oct 00 - 01:59 PM

Char - to get back to it bugging you - perhaps if you thought of Diversity as relating to differences rather than to divisions you'd like it better. I don't mind diversity being used to relate to differences. What I do mind is it being used to talk about one particular ethnic or whatever group only in contrast to WPMs (White Protestant Males) - as in, having one (not all of the above) in a group means the group is diverse, or (even worse!) comprising members who just aren't WPMs. For example, my twins' kindergarten is described as "diverse" when in reality there is a huge majority of children whose ancestors left Africa a lot more recently, and a lot less willingly, than the WPMs' did. To my mind, it's not diverse, it's just not predominantly WPMs...

Subject: RE: BS: the word 'Diversity'
From: Charcloth
Date: 11 Oct 00 - 04:34 PM

I think you're pretty much on target Mrrzy with some of the things I have seen in regards to the word "Diversity" I still see it more in the vein of divide or seperate or another version of segregation. I would rather see a more uniting word. FOR YOU OTHER FOLKS In regards to my spelling, the rules never made sense to me "chisel" should be "chizzel" or "chissel" & if "different" is the root of diverse then it should be spelled "Differse." Oh WELL POOR SPELLING NEVER KEPT WILLIAM CLARK'S JOURNAL OF THE EXPEDITION FROM BEING READ.