'Dirty' songs recorded in the 1950's

Subject: 'Dirty' songs recorded in the 1950's
From: Naemanson
Date: 19 Oct 00 - 09:52 PM

I have a number of questions.

Over the last week I have been listening to some of my old records including Ed McCurdy's Dalliance albums and Oscar Brand's bawdy songs of the Navy. It occurred to me as I was up to my wrists in the soapy water that these albums are very risque even for our times. What was going on back in the 1950's that McCurdy and Brand would feel secure enough to record these beauties? Does anyone know?

As an aside, I have two of McCurdy's albums both titled When Dalliance Was In Flower And Maidens Lost Their Heads - Volume III. (Yes, they each say Volume III) The front of each is different but the notes and pictures on the back are the same. The songs on the albums are different. Why?

How many Dalliance albums are there?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dirty' songs recorded in the 1950's
From: Bill D
Date: 19 Oct 00 - 10:04 PM

Well, Oscar Brand's were Bowdlerized...(and 'maybe' Ed McCurdy's,,,though the Elizebethan stuff was about 1½ entendré)...there were 4 Dalliance I think, but I only have the digest version...and a book of ALL the songs.

Many of the Ed McCurdy songs have appeared in their UNcensored versions in some other recordings and books

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dirty' songs recorded in the 1950's
From: Naemanson
Date: 19 Oct 00 - 10:40 PM

Bill, I have Brand's "Every Inch A Sailor" and if that was cleaned up then someone used a very dirty sponge! His version of Barnacle Bill leaves nothing to the imagination. When he sings about sinking the VD Queen of Guam in Navy spunk you have to assume that there is no dirtier version.

As far as the Dalliance albums go I have "When Dalliance Was In Flower And Maidens Lost Their Heads" volume 2 and, as I stated above two different versions of volume 3. Then I also have "Son Of Dalliance" which is not a compilation from the other albums. It has different songs on it.

Even the album covers are very risque featuring heaving bosoms and very sheer night gowns. the model is obviously wearing some kind of body suit but there is little left to the imagination.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dirty' songs recorded in the 1950's
From: celticblues5
Date: 19 Oct 00 - 11:46 PM

Bill -
Can you please give us the name of the songbook & the publisher?
Thanks!

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dirty' songs recorded in the 1950's
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 20 Oct 00 - 06:06 AM

I have vols 1-3 of McCurdy's 'When Dalliance was in Flower' series and 'Son of Daliance'(primarily from 'Pills to Purge Melancholy' and some from earlier drolleries and a few are from early 18th century single sheet songs with music). Two more records by him of such material are "Lyrica Erotica", vols. 1 and 3, on Prestige-International (13044 and 13050) [Vol 2 was Arthur Argo's bawdy Scots songs, 13048]. I've never carefully checked, but think McCurdy shortened some songs, but more for time curtailment than for the purpose of expurgation.
McCurdy didn't always use the original tune, in fact there weren't any known originals for some of the drollery songs he did.

We will return to the question of Elizabethan songs later.

"Kitt hath lost her key" on the 1st 'dalliance' volume never had a tune until McCurdy composed one. The song is one of John Payne Collier's forgeries that can be put at about 1846-7. [As noted in the Collier file on my website I've seen the original MS copy of it.] Volume 2 is all from 'Pills to Purge Melancholy' but some were printed earlier. ("Merchant and the Fiddler's' wife is on a broadside ballad by J[ohn] P[hillips] and "My Thing is my own" was from a broadside called "Trap, or the young lass". The oldest there is undoubtabley "Uptails All". The tune appeared much earlier than any text, being in the Fitzwilliam Virginal Book, the date of which is uncertain but seems to fall in the range 1620-35, although many tunes in it are much older.
Vol. 3 is mostly from 'Pills to Purge Melancholy'. "Pillycock" is in Pills, iv 311 (1719) but came originally from Thomas Heywood's 'The Rape of Lucrece', 1608. "Celia" is from Pills which doesn't note that the song was by Tom Brown (sometime after 1680). "Old Brass to mend" is also from Pills but there are earlier broadside versions (but after 1655). "The Hive of Bees" is from Pills, but also appeared in earler drolleries. I've got a much earlier version from a manuscript that's only a few years later than 1603 in the Scarce Songs 1 file on my website. I think the rest in this volume are later than about 1670. Son of Dalliance: The oldest are "I dreamed My Love", c 1643 (Percy Folio MS [c 1643]: Loose and Humorous Songs) [This is also found in a couple other manuscripts, but I have no estimated date for them.] For the short history I have of "She lay all naked", apeared in 'Wit and Drollery, 1656. I've also seen it in a few manuscript, but not assuredly older than 1656. See Scarce Songs 1 on my website, for a broadside expansion [Almost forgot; it's now available on the Bodley Ballads website]. "A Maiden's Delight" is from 'Merry Drollery'. I've forgotten exactly where "Three Birds" came from. It's in a rare drollery of the 1660's or early 1670's. The rest are later, the last, "The Fornicator" being by Robert Burns. Lyrica Erotica 1. The oldest seems to be "Walking in a meadow green" from the Percy Folio MS: Loose and Humorous Songs. I think all the rest are later than 1660. Lyrica Erotica 3: The oldest is "A Puritan of Late" which was probably from a drollery or the Giles Earle MS, c 1625. The odd 4 1/2 line stanza is unique for songs to "Last Christmans 'twas my Chance", which is in Pills to the wrong tune. The original tune is of 1622 or 1623 and an ABC of it is among the broadside ballad tunes on my website.

It looks like there might be about 3 songs among the above that might be a little earlier than the earliest record we have of them, and be Elizabethan, but we have none that can be proven to be such on the basis of presently available information.

Some other recordings:
There's a selection of songs from 'The Merry Muses of Caledonia' by Paul Clayton [Worthington], Elektra 155. Another record by Clayton of bawdy folk songs is 'Unholy Matrimony', Elektra 147.

Ewan McColl also did a record of selections from 'The Merry Muses of Caledonia', for Folk-Lyric if I remember correctly, but it wasn't sold over the counter and I never found a copy.

One side of Richard Dyer-Bennet's 'Mark Twain's 1601) was bawdy folk songs (Richard Dyer-Bennet Records, 1962, no id number)

I was stupid enough to get one of Oscar Brand's bawdy[?] ballads records, but smart enough not to repeat that mistake.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dirty' songs recorded in the 1950's
From: Naemanson
Date: 20 Oct 00 - 06:14 AM

Thank you Bruce. That is certainly a lot more info than I had expected. It will take me a little time to ingest it all.

I have a copy of Pills and have noted certain changes in some of the songs but didn't consider them drastic.

I am curious about your remark concerning Oscar Brand's recording. You appear to believe that they lack something, possibly a certain cultivation?

Subject: Lyr Add: THE DINGHY SONG^^
From: harpmolly
Date: 20 Oct 00 - 02:08 PM

I remember hearing "The Dinghy Song" on an old Dr. Demento record and laughing my head off. I think that was more in the forties or even thirties, though...

"He's got the cutest little Dinghy in the Navy,
And all the girlies know that it's so!
The cutest little Dinghy in the Navy,
They love to watch him go heave-ho!

It isn't very long and it isn't very short;
It's built for speedy action
And it gets him into port!
The cutest little Dinghy in the Navy,
Heave ho, heave ho!

It isn't very narrow and it isn't very wide;
But you should see that thing go in and out with the tide!
The cutest little Dinghy, etc. etc."

Couldn't resist quoting the lyrics. It's fun to sing, too.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dirty' songs recorded in the 1950's
From: mousethief
Date: 20 Oct 00 - 02:33 PM

Love that song, Molly! I sure miss Dr. D. here in Seattle. Wish another station would pick him up.

Alex
O..O
=o=

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dirty' songs recorded in the 1950's
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 20 Oct 00 - 02:49 PM

My advice - don't bother with Oscar Brand's songs. They are just plain gross adolescent humor. No elegance, no subtlety.

McCurdy's songs are wonderful. Often very clever, subtle, elegant. They could use a revival. I ENCOURAGE ANYONE WHO HAS THESE ALBUMS TO POST THE LYRICS FOR DIGITRAD. And tunes, if you can. A few are already there.

Burns' bawdy songs are interesting but they are in Braw Scots and most audiences today wouldn't understand them as written. How many people know what a pintle is? (Hint: Nine Inch Would Please a Lady.)

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dirty' songs recorded in the 1950's
From: Midchuck
Date: 20 Oct 00 - 03:09 PM

And what, may one ask, is wrong with gross adolescent humor? On this site? Gimmea break!

Peter.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dirty' songs recorded in the 1950's
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 20 Oct 00 - 03:36 PM

Midchuck: It wasn't this site I had in mind. It was the venues where a lot of my musician friends play.

If you feel inclined to invest all the time and effort required to transcribe Oscar Brand's songs, go right ahead. I'm sure SOMEONE will appreciate it.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dirty' songs recorded in the 1950's
From: Naemanson
Date: 20 Oct 00 - 03:53 PM

Well, actually, IMHO Brand's songs have some value IF they are actual songs sung in the military. I will admit I heard no dirty songs when I was in the Navy but then that was in the early 70's and the sailors relied on electronic media (8 tracks!) for music. No shared songs then.

On "Every Inch A Sailor" the liner notes purport that these are songs from and before World War II. If that is the case they are as worthy of collection and preservation as the Burns songs or the songs in Pills To Purge Melancholy.

So, to get back to my original question, what was going on back in the 1950's that McCurdy and Brand would feel secure enough to record these albums? Does anyone know?

Consider that this was right after the McCarthy era. Was there a repercussion of libidinous freedom with the demise of old Joe M.?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dirty' songs recorded in the 1950's
From: GUEST,allan S.
Date: 20 Oct 00 - 03:57 PM

Arthur Argo put out a LP called "A wee thread of blue" In the late 1950's also I remember an album 0f 78's which would have been in the late 1940's that included the dinghy song. These were refered to as Party Songs. also in the late 40's there was a record half in english and half in yiddish which was was for a clothing store called Joe andPaul's something about giving your son twenty five cents and send him to cock-eyed Jenny. THese were considered to be quite risky at the time.

As to Robert Burns The Merry Muses of Caledonia it was published by G.P. Putnam's Sons. NY First Ed 1964 Copyright 1959 library of congress card No. 64-13031 It includes a photo of the title page of the 1800 edition

Little did I know that the origional words of Comming Through The Rye were If a laddie F--- a lassie comming through the Rye. when we were taught it in the 5th. grade.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dirty' songs recorded in the 1950's
From: annamill
Date: 20 Oct 00 - 04:09 PM

Back in the fifty's there were many very risque albums. Some were downright filthy. Who can forget 'If you can't Fugit, then Sugit" by Red Fox. There were sooo many. They were referred to as Party Albums and had restricted access. I don't think your boys were all that bad for back then. ;-)

Love, annamill (See some of you this weekend)!!

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dirty' songs recorded in the 1950's
From: GUEST,Bob Schwarer
Date: 20 Oct 00 - 04:29 PM

I knew most of Brand's songs from back in the '40s & 50's. Heard some during my Army stay. They seemed to disappear after that.

Bob S.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dirty' songs recorded in the 1950's
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 20 Oct 00 - 04:42 PM

I noted Arthur Argo's recording in my post above, Prestige-International 13048. Here's a bit more info:

I forgot to mention another rather rare 1950's collection of bawdy songs, Mack McCormick's field recordings on 'The Unexpurgated Songs of Men", stated to been recorded in Texas in 1959 and copyrighted in 1960. (No record label or id# given). Contents (not all are songs): The Ring-a-Rang-a-Roo/ The Keeper of the Eddystone Light [DT and Bodley Ballads- The man at the Nore]/ Mamie had a Baby/ Cocaine Bill and Morphine Sue/ Take a Whiff on me/ The Bastard King of England/ No Balls at All/ Barnacle Bill the Sailor/ Big Jim Folsom/ Cristofo Columbo/ The Monk of Priory Hall/ The Hootchy Kootchy Dance/ Always in the Hallway/ The Merry Cuckold/ In Crawled One-Hung Lo/ Who Stole My Beer/ Dicky Dido/ You be Kind to Me/ Boar Hog Blues/ Grubbing Hoe/ Uncle Bud/ The Girl I Left Behind Me/ There's a 'skeeter/ You Got Good Business/ The Dirty Dozens/ (Limericks)/ The Ball of Kirriemuir/ Change the Name of Arkansas [a monologue].

Compare texts of Oscar Brand's versions of songs to real traditional versions on McCormick's recording or in Ed Cray's The Erotic Muse and you'll see how badly expurgated Brand's versions were. Brand published 41 of his texts and tunes in his book Bawdy Songs and Backroom Ballads, which, of course, he copyrighted (1960). As far as I'm concerned Oscar Brand's songs are Brand songs, not folk songs.

Does anyone have volume 2 of Brand's recordings 'Bawdy Songs and Backroom Ballads'? I would very much like to see Brand's text of "A Gob is a Slob"? He is said to have collected it from a sailor in Galveston, Texas. His expurgated version, "A Guy is a Guy" (I walked down the street like a good girl should) became a top hit of 1952, sung by Doris Day. His original (which I doubt we'll ever see) is a descendent of one which of which there is a fragment in the Percy Folio MS (c 1643). The Percy folio text and several later English and Scots versions are given under "Dainty Duck" in the Scarce Songs 1 file on my website (www.erols.com/olsonw).

I had seen it stated about 30 years ago, I've forgotten where or by whom, that songs in Pills to Purge Melancholy were somewhat expurgated. Since that was the biggest collection of bawdy songs that I knew of at the time, I thought that the statement was ridiculous. Later, after having seen earlier drollery and manuscript versions of many of the songs in Pills, I was forced to agree with the statement.

There are other old recordings of bawdy material that have little to do with folk songs. Martyn Green's mad a recording which included many bawdy 'Limericks' [I was late to discover that there were some Limericks that weren't bawdy], Rusty Warren's 'Songs for Sinners', and "The Flutterblast [farting] Contest", for example.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dirty' songs recorded in the 1950's
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 20 Oct 00 - 04:59 PM

Annamill: That's Redd Foxx you're talking about, right? (Don't forget the extra consonants.) This web site says he recorded 50 "party" records that sold 20,000,000 copies. I have one called "You Gotta Wash Your A**!"

Another maker of "party records" was Jackie "Moms" Mabley.

Lest anybody be confused, we're talking about stand-up comedy here, not music.

Naemanson: Getting back to your original question: I have no idea whether there was more or less sexual humor in the 50's than in any other era. Maybe our perception (in the US anyway) has been distorted by the fact that TELEVISION during that time was extremely puritanical. Lucy and Desi slept in separate beds (even though married people in real life usually didn't); the word "pregnant" couldn't be used (but euphemisms like "expecting" could be); toilets or bathrooms couldn't be mentioned or seen. Remember, television was a new medium, the networks were owned by the same companies that were manufacturing TV's, and they were eager to get televisions into as many households as possible. They didn't want to risk offending or even mildly embarrassing ANYONE.

My guess is that other media that weren't under such economic pressure to conform, were never so repressed.

And McCarthyism was NOT about sex. It was about COMMUNISM!

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dirty' songs recorded in the 1950's
From: Abby Sale
Date: 20 Oct 00 - 05:38 PM

Jim: Yes, but McCarthyism, like other nuts of the period attributed all questionable activities to Communist plots. Juvenile delinquency, drugs, rebellousness, but especially sex. These were all induced to corupt Americans and bring about the downfall of our society. It was a true witch hunt - eg, publishing a sex magazine was often considered legal proof the publisher was a Communist.

Bruce: As I recall, McCurdy didn't write any of those tunes himself but he did credit the composer. I disremember at the moment who. Very late in life he regretted the whole "Dalliance" series as smutty & he wished he hadn't done it. His memory, however, was of their shocking over-the-counter impact at the time. He went and listened to some again and decided they really weren't so bad after all.

The Ewan McColl "Merry Muses" actually was sold over the counter. At least at Goodies, New York where I bought it. It was rare and sold under a semi-fictitious record label. I have never found another copy, however. It's one of my real prizes.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dirty' songs recorded in the 1950's
From: GUEST,Giac, not at home
Date: 20 Oct 00 - 06:10 PM

Bruce O. -- I have some old Oscar Brand albums, but getting to them is another story. Don't know if I have BS&BB Vol. 2, I did at one time, but I'll look for it.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dirty' songs recorded in the 1950's
From: JTT
Date: 20 Oct 00 - 06:28 PM

Some of those songs sound more like English music hall, which had a rich tradition of double meaning, with titles like "Up went me little umberella" and "He's got the b-b-biggest aspidistra in the world".

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dirty' songs recorded in the 1950's
From: M. Ted (inactive)
Date: 20 Oct 00 - 06:37 PM

I am familiar with the Oscar Brand albums, and am not sure what the problem that people have with them is--I had heard many of his songs sung "in the wild" so to speak, with lyrics that are fairly close--Is the feeling that he changed lyrics enough to make them copyrightable?

The "public" world of the 50's was much sanitized--everything that had gone on before continued to go on, but it was slightly out of sight, and for effect, every once in a while, they would drag some poor guy through a public humiliation, often including the loss of job, family, and occasionally jail, for some insignificant "vice"--the favorite trick of the persecutors, as mentioned above, to tie everything together--Communism, drugs, pornography, homsexuality, and Rock and Roll----

It seems like it was only yesterday--

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dirty' songs recorded in the 1950's
From: Tiger
Date: 20 Oct 00 - 10:04 PM

Another party records contributor was Charlie ("He likes to Nibble on my Cupcakes") Drew, who played for a long time (beginning in the 40's) at the Hotel Taft in NYC.

Surprised nobody has mentioned Rusty ("Knockers Up") Warren. Did a great "Waltz me Around".

All this would raise vary an eyebrow today.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dirty' songs recorded in the 1950's
From: Tiger
Date: 20 Oct 00 - 10:05 PM

Make that "nary"

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dirty' songs recorded in the 1950's
From: John Hindsill
Date: 21 Oct 00 - 01:17 AM

I have some of Brand's albums, and McCurdy's, too. I haven't listened to them in years and years; think I'll look them up and give a listen.

When I saw the thread title, I thought we would be reminiscing about those great rhythm & blues songs of my youth: Work With Me Annie [white bread version, Dance With Me Henry] & Annie Had A Baby by Hank Ballard; Honey Love by Clyde McPhatter come to mind. We had to hide those 45s from the folks, and play them when they weren't home.----John

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dirty' songs recorded in the 1950's
From: Sourdough
Date: 21 Oct 00 - 01:49 AM

I went to a Connectivcut boarding school and even there, in the mid to late fifties we had records like "Work with me Annie", Knockers Up" and some thing that as I recall was a contest of passing gas with the most interesting noises. Gross adolescent humor, yes, but the, we were gross adolescents.

Sourdough

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dirty' songs recorded in the 1950's
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 21 Oct 00 - 08:00 PM

A few thoughts on the '50s and the "bawdy" songs.

Oscar Brand ,made an album of truly bawdy (dirty) songs. Unreleased for obvious reasons, but sold at clubs and coffee houses then.. Which is where I purchased an autographed copy---"..don't play this---Oscar".

The 50s were a strange time in a puritanical sense. Think of this: Movies uttered not an obscene word. Broadway did. When a recording was made of an Original Bway Cast Musical the expletives were changed. An example:

The late Gwen Verdon sings on the stage the line (at the end of a song in New Girl In Town (Anna Christie)"...those lecherous, treacherous sons of bitches". On the recording, which I treasure, as perhaps my favorite musical, "....those lecherous, treacherous,COUSINS".

The '50s were a strange puritanical time. Whereas I guess the '70s can be called the time of the worst music ever recorded---Is your Cake still melting in the rain? Dman I do hope you find the recipe again. This could be ultimate definitions of either " crap" or "what were they thinking".

Bill H

Subject: Lyr Add: A GOB IS A SLOB^^
From: RWilhelm
Date: 22 Oct 00 - 02:32 PM

I think Oscar Brand is to bawdy songs what Peter Paul and Mary and the Kingston Trio are to folk songs in general: entertaining but not for scholars. Recently I bought the "Bawdy Songs and Backroom Ballads" vols. 1-3 on eBay. I certainly would not use them a source for accurate lyrics but they are a good place to start and it is useful to have so many bawdy songs in one place. Most importantly, adolescent or not, I think they're good fun.

Here is Oscar Brand's version of "A Gob is a Slob" from Vol. 2 as requested by Bruce O.:

A Gob is a Slob

My mother told me not to talk to strangers in the street
As the years went by remembering I was never indiscreet
But girls are girls and boys are boys and boys and girls are fools
We're all the same so who's to blame when its nature makes the rules

Well I walked down the street like a good girl should
He followed me down the street like I knew he would
Because a gob is a slob where ever he may be
Listen and I'll tell you what this sailor did to me

I walked to my house like a good girl should
He followed to my house like I knew he would
Because a gob is a slob where ever he may be
Listen while I tell you what this sailor did to me

I ran up the stair like a frighetend hare
I Even locked my bedroom door
I turned to the bed almost fell over dead
Somehow he sneaked right in before

I got into bed like a good girl should
He followed me into bed like I knew he would
Because a gob is a slob where ever he may be
Listen and I'll tell you what this sailor did to me

I pursed my lips I tried a frown but frowning's not my style
I tried a pout but what came out was a coy inviting smile
I knew he would have had me even if I had refused
He didn't need encouragement but what he got he used

I got into bed like a good girl should
He followed me into bed like I knew he would
Because a gob is a slob where ever he may be
Listen while I tell you what this fellow did to me

I got me a time like a good girl should
He got him a time like I knew he would
Because a gob is a slob where ever he may be
Listen while I tell you what this sailor did to me

He grabbed me tight and he switched off the light
And he settled down to stay
I would have said please leave this bed
But who the hell is built that way

So had me a child like a good girl should
And he went off to sea like I knew he would
Because a gob is a slob where ever he may be
Now you heard the story what this sailor did to me
^^

---

The version in the Digital Tradition is called The Knave
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dirty' songs recorded in the 1950's
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 22 Oct 00 - 06:05 PM

Earl, many, many thanks! That first verse looks suspiciously like a new one, and the language looks a little strange for a folk song in a few places, but we're a lot closer to a folk song than that version Doris Day sang in 1952.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dirty' songs recorded in the 1950's
From: GUEST,Jim Dixon
Date: 22 Oct 00 - 08:36 PM

Bulletin!

Here's a link to The BLUE PAGES: The Encyclopedic Guide to 78 R.P.M. Party Records. It includes references to "The Crepitation [farting] Contest" mentioned above Enjoy!

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dirty' songs recorded in the 1950's
From: Max Tone
Date: 23 Oct 00 - 06:00 PM

How come there's no mention in this thread of the great Tom Lehrer.
So many classic sick songs.
Rob

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dirty' songs recorded in the 1950's
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 23 Oct 00 - 06:48 PM

Abby, I can't find anyone credited with composing tunes for songs in McCurdy's 'Dalliance' series. On the first of the 'Dalliance' volumes it is said that most of the songs are from 'Pills', and musical arrangements are by McDarkin.

On the other two 'Dalliance' vols. and 'Son of Dalliance' the most that is said is that the musical settings are copyrighted by Ed McCurdy.

You were lucky to find that MacColl/ Merry Muses recording. The only info I saw about it said that you had to mail order it from an address in New Orleans. I wrote to the address requesting price (probably several years after it was issued) but never got any answer.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dirty' songs recorded in the 1950's
From:
Date: 24 Oct 00 - 05:36 AM

There was a woman named Bell (or Belle) Barth who made blue recordings in the 50's. I can remember her song which went, in part

Ship Ahoy sailor boy, don't you get too springy
The Admiral's daughter is down by the water
She's out to get your dingy

Then there is the great one by Memphis Slim. He talks while he plays the piano. He tells the story about how he knew a girl named Kay who he has somehow lost. There is more to the verse; but it ends with, "remember everybody, if you see Kay."

Tjat was in an album that came out in the 50s or early 60s and I don't have it to hand. It has Tampa Red (I think) doing "Can I play with your poodle" and Blind Willie McTell doing "Beetle-am-bum" plus several others.

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dirty' songs recorded in the 1950's
From: Naemanson
Date: 24 Oct 00 - 02:27 PM

Well, I guess I get the point that "dirty" songs were after all being recorded in the fifties. I must have led a sheltered existance, protected by our distance from the "civilized" world.

I am interested in the discussion of McCurdy's albums. I really want to believe that the record of WWII songs has some provenance as recorded folklore.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dirty' songs recorded in the 1950's
From: Abby Sale
Date: 24 Oct 00 - 09:22 PM

Bruce: Muses says it's distributed by Folk Lyric but is a Dionysius record. D1 no less. Probably never was a D2. But it was produced by both Goldstein & Harry Oster so a well-done issue as you would expect from either.

Perhaps my memory is just wrong on the Dalliance tunes. I'm going by memory of what the man told me but I see you are right on the credits. Between 'settings by' and 'arrangements by' mostly McCurdy plus Darling & Robert Abramson as well as McDarkin.

Naemanson: what was going on back in the 1950's that McCurdy and Brand would feel secure enough to record these albums? Does anyone know?

No but I'd say it was post-war and a New Era. A new morality & politics was trying to emerge. The 60's didn't spring from nothing. They were more snide & suggestive than actually bawdy. Just kind of risque for the period but still mild enough to go through the US mails and be sold over the counter.

As to WWII bawdy/folk songs - I haven't heard the McCurdy but there were endless numbers of them. MacColl recorded some and Henderson printed a booklet of some (including some original.) Prof. Lydia Fish is said to be the leading expert.

Subject: RE: 'Dirty' songs recorded in the 1950's
From: GUEST,ex-hoi-cat
Date: 31 Oct 05 - 01:19 AM

I hope somebody's still visiting this forum.

I remember Rusty Warren's "Knockers UP!" album...a friend's boyfriend had it (I think he got it from his older brother in 1956 or '57...we were juniors or seniors in high school, and the brother was in the Marine Corps.) One of the songs on it was a hilarious thing about a sailor who never forgot the girl who gave him his "first lei in Hawaii."

I also remember "Work with Me, Annie,: and the sequel: "Annie Had a Baby (Cain't Work No Mo')"

Stand-up comics like Lenny Bruce were starting to make names for themselves in the clubs in the late 1950s and early '60s, AND making comedy albums. I saw Bruce LIVE at the Unicorn on Sunset Strip some time before 1963 ... after sitting through two sets, every muscle in my face and torso was on fire from laughing so much. I loved and admired that man through all his persecutions by the blue-noses and everything else until the day he died. I still do. I had all the (expurgated) recordings he did for Verve (cherry RED vinyl!)...and like an idiot, I loaned them (AND my Cal Tjader collection) to someone in the 1980s, and she promptly skipped town.

Oh! WHO recorded "Big 10-Inch....Record of the Band that Plays the Blues"?

That was VERY popular when I was in high school...even in a "morally" uptight town like Beautiful Downtown Burbank (dancing of ANY kind was frowned on by practically everyone...so I studied ballet and tap for most of my childhood). I'm surprised there wasn't a pillory in front of City Hall.

Subject: RE: 'Dirty' songs recorded in the 1950's
From: Big Jim from Jackson
Date: 31 Oct 05 - 09:45 AM

I have (somewhere) an album called "The Earthy Side" by an unnamed bunch os singers. The lead singer has a great voice and sounds "opereticly trained". It has a number of songs, poems, and stories. Well done.

I don't see any mention of Doug Clark and the Hot Nutts in the above discussion. They may have been from the '60's and '70's rather than the '50's.

Subject: RE: 'Dirty' songs recorded in the 1950's
From: GUEST,Duane D. at work
Date: 31 Oct 05 - 03:24 PM

Years ago when I was living in NJ and part of The Folk Project, another member lent me several vinyl albums from Oscar Brand's "Baudy Songs and Backroom Ballads" series, I think Vol 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 7, of which I made cassette copies and have in safe storage. There was another songbook with many of the original (uncensored) lyrics to many of the songs recorded by Oscar and was published by Oak Publications called, "Roll Me Over." I don't know if it is still in print. I bought my copy (which I still have) in the 1970's or early 1980's. Until recently, there was a site online (www.madmusicarchives.com) that had many of the DR. Demento programs archived from the 1970's to date in MP3 formats. I was able to download a good deal of these archives for my own use before they disappeared and have a copy of "Davy and his Dingy" and other similar songs by the same singer, I want to say Ruth Gordon, but I'm not totally sure, and can look that up later when I get home. I hope this is useful information.

Duane.

Subject: RE: 'Dirty' songs recorded in the 1950's
From: NH Dave
Date: 31 Oct 05 - 05:43 PM

For Bob - The Army songs didn't disappear, they were just updated to reflect the changes in time. Thus the AAF songs from WWII were redone in Korea with Korean locations and language, and the Korean changes were updated in Viet Nam with Vietnamese locations and languages. Dick Jonas sang most of them, as well as Lydia Fish's material on Viet Nam, much of which she got from a set of songs collected by General Edward Lansdale, during the period and donated to the Library of Congress.

John Mehlberg has posted lot of work by Oscar Brand, and Ed McCurdy, along with Rugby and Hasher songs on his pages at Imortalia.com.


Dave

Subject: RE: 'Dirty' songs recorded in the 1950's
From: NH Dave
Date: 31 Oct 05 - 05:46 PM

Should read Lydia Fish's

Dave

Subject: RE: 'Dirty' songs recorded in the 1950's
From: Tannywheeler
Date: 01 Nov 05 - 02:25 PM

Pearl(y Mae) Bailey did some recordings in the '40s and 50's that were covers of pretty basic popular songs from the jazz and bebop and musical-theater worlds. They seemed innocuous enough to be played on the air. But my mother could hear some of the intonations that made some lines double entendres. She would hoot and start to laugh. When I first saw this, she would try to explain by demonstrating how Pearl might be standing and moving to produce some tones and sound effects. (Mom had seen the marvelous Pearl B. several times live in clubs.) I was about 12 and 13 or so--the beginning of the enrichment of my lifelong sex ed class. Also, listen to some of the covers of seemingly innocuous pop songs done by Louis Prima (and Keely Smith)--as well as their clearly "blue" stuff. FotFLMAO stuff for sure.

Subject: RE: 'Dirty' songs recorded in the 1950's
From: GUEST,Bob Coltman
Date: 01 Nov 05 - 05:46 PM

Many of the songs discussed above (though not the Pills to Purge ones and generally not the R&B ones either) can be found in Ed Cray's book The Erotic Muse, available from Amazon.

Maybe you already knew that, but if it's the songs you're looking for, and particularly the real bawdry that Oscar Brand bowdlerized for his record series, you'll find a bonanza there. Indeed nearly all the best "dirty songs" have their roots in the pre-1960s era and before.

Also don't miss the Vance Randolph "Roll Me In Your Arms" two-volume set, the best collection of bawdy songs from the American South, focused on the Ozarks.

Incidentally, though the Brand "Bawdy Songs and Backroom Ballads" records largely deal in traditional songs, there are a few songs on those records whose authorship is puzzling. Oscar, who is a talented and often uncredited songwriter, may have written them. At least, he is the earliest source for several of them.

Agreed, www. immortalia.com is the greatest web source. You can find thousands of bawdy songs there, the best collection ever in one place, and lose yourself for weeks in the riches.

Now, about those "dirty fifties": that's when I learned nearly all the bawdy songs I sing today. College outing clubs were one huge source, circulating all the filthiest versions to be found of everything from Roll Your Leg Over to the Bastard King of England. Oscar Brand was just the foam on the surface of a very deep ocean.

Ed McCurdy's stuff was much more refined, though fancy-tickling. It delighted us, though his songs didn't tend to enter our repertoires.

But the real story was the many, many folksingers throughout the United States, Britain and Australia (and probably in many foreign-language countries, too -- that needs exploring) who took great joy in congregating to sing dirty songs. Usually there were girls present, and sometimes they sang their own dirty songs too.

The fifties were, don't forget, the time of the beatniks. Of Kerouac and Ginsberg. Of foreign films and the first wave of the folk era. Don't be fooled by the surface, the Eisenhower pablum, and the dull reputation the era has today; the real news was underground. You start looking into it and there's no end to it.

I was there, I know. A host of others could tell you the same. Bob

Subject: RE: 'Dirty' songs recorded in the 1950's
From: Cluin
Date: 01 Nov 05 - 05:54 PM

Ruth Wallis, you mean, Duane?

Great classics such as "Davy's Dinghy", "Ubangi Me (IBangi You)" and "You Gotta Have Boobs".

Subject: RE: 'Dirty' songs recorded in the 1950's
From: Margret RoadKnight
Date: 02 Nov 05 - 02:16 AM

and let's not forget the inimitable Sophie Tucker.....

Subject: RE: 'Dirty' songs recorded in the 1950's
From: Duane D.
Date: 02 Nov 05 - 08:57 AM

TNX Cluin. I wasn't sure of the name, memory's not what it used to be. I have some others by her than the ones you listed. I think one was on the original record opposite "Davy's Dinghy." If I get a chance tonight I'll check my collection of downloaded Dr. Demento archives. Too bad I didn't have the foresight to get them all before they were removed.

Subject: RE: 'Dirty' songs recorded in the 1950's
From: snake
Date: 02 Nov 05 - 02:56 PM

There's a Rhino Records release called Risque Rhythym: Nasty 50's R&B, all recorded, I belive, between 1949 and 1954. The titles are:
1. Big Ten-Inch Record
2. Big Long Slidin' Thing
3. Laundromat Blues
4. The Walkin' Blues (Walk Right In, Walk Right Out)
5. Wasn't That Good
6. Butcher Pete-Pt. 1
7. It Ain't The Meat
8. Sixty-Minute Man
9. Lemon Squeezing Daddy
10. Work With Me Annie
11. Keep On Churnin'
12. Silent George
13. Long John Blues
14. Mountain Oysters
15. My Man Stands Out
16. Toy Bell
17. Rocket 69
18. (I Love To Play Your Piano) Let Me Bang Your Box

The artists include (I don't have the CD with me so it may not be a complete list): Dinah Washington, Moose Jackson, The Jesse Powell Orchestra with Fluffy Hunter, The Royals, Roy Brown & His Mighty-Mighty Men, Eddie "Lockjaw" Davis with The Bill Doggett Trio, The Toppers, and Wynonie Harris.

Subject: RE: 'Dirty' songs recorded in the 1950's
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 02 Nov 05 - 10:08 PM

Having lived through them (and the 40s as well) I can only say that the differences between the 50s and the 60s were largely due to the general acceptance of birth control pills in the late 50s, and much better PR work by the "rebels". THere was a lot of blue material circulating (in NY, at least) from the 30s on--just never received the publicity that attended it later.

Subject: RE: 'Dirty' songs recorded in the 1950's
From: Arbuthnot
Date: 02 Nov 05 - 11:24 PM

There were others in GB - I have some 78s, as usual not to hand - Bernard Breslaw's "Mad Passionate Love" springs to mind, but I have three or four others - Josephine Baker and Edith Piaf implied it in the French 50s - I hate the Rugby Songs albums of the late 60s, male bit of the Black and White Minstrels with as much passion as a coven of midwives - my copy of "Dalliance was in flower" has a booklet of words included - doesn't yours?

Subject: RE: 'Dirty' songs recorded in the 1950's
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 02 Nov 05 - 11:34 PM

I love Ruth Wallis and this CD is still available, I have a copy.
Mike Absolom used to do lots of bawdy songs around the London folk clubs in the 60s and 70s, don't know if he recorded anything.
Giok

Subject: RE: 'Dirty' songs recorded in the 1950's
From: Celtaddict
Date: 03 Nov 05 - 12:53 AM

Thanks, Giok, I have some of her work but not this; my dad was a big fan. For years I have wanted to be able to hear at the Sea Music Festival (meaning I have to get the song to someone who will learn and sing it) the song with the wonderful opening, "The Admiral's daughter is waiting by the water; she wants to ride his dinghy."

Subject: RE: 'Dirty' songs recorded in the 1950's
From:
Date: 05 Dec 05 - 12:35 PM

My parents used to play a 78 back in the 60's. Here is the most I can remember of two songs. I cant't find any info.

Ship ahoy, sailor boy
Don't you get too springy
The admiral's daugnter waits
down by the water
She wants to ride your dingy

She's built as big as a battleship
(Davey says he'll have to make two trips!)
Let her go ride with the other guys
My dingys no good
For a gal that size.

(chorus)

There may be other verses, but I don't remember.

The second song goes like this:

Lorettas the sweater girl now
Lorettas the better girl now
How can she steal away each fella's heart
She has two outstanding reasons
She's cute and she's smart!

(chorus)
Loretta Loretta
What she does for a swaater
Loretta is the sweater girl now

Loretta is really a hit
though she stretches the boys
quite a bit
She says that she could get much
more than her share
But she says her sweater would not stand
the wear and the tear

(chorus)

The boys all whistle
When she walks in the breeze
She has an ice-cream cone figure
(Two scoops if you please)

(chorus)


That is all I remember, which is cool, since I was only 5 years old