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BS: The Aged Cheese
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Subject: The Aged Cheese From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 21 Oct 00 - 04:29 PM Well it started when my wife came across a reference in a book to "aged cheese" - and since it was an American book, we wondered whether perhaps it might be that in America what in England called "mature cheese" might in America be referred to as "aged". After all, when you are talking about a cheese, nobody needs to worry about sparing its feelings, so calling it "aged" instead of "mature" might be a break from being expected to be PC all the time.
And the Mudcat is where you can find out about stuff like that - so I'd be glad if someone can say if we are correct in our surmise.
But then I started wondering about cheese and folk songs, and I asked the DT - and there are no fewer than 67 somgs there with cheese included. Which is a lot of cheese songs. Some good ones too - like this verse from a song sung by Jeannie Redpath about someone who has lost their true-love:
Oh some fell on their bended knees Which is an admirable attitude, I think, and in keeping with the sturdy and sensiuble quakirties associated with cheese (as exemplified by Wallace and Gromit).
So if anyone would like to draw our attention to any noteworthy cheese songs...
Or other cheese related items of information worth sharing among us...
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Subject: RE: BS: The Aged Cheese From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 21 Oct 00 - 04:32 PM "sensiuble quakirties" indeed - "sensible qualities" that should have been. I do try to spot the mispellings, but there's always one I see just as I punch the submit button... |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Aged Cheese From: Skipjack K8 Date: 21 Oct 00 - 04:37 PM There's this song we sing in church sometimes called "What a friend we have in cheeses" It's great! Skipjack |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Aged Cheese From: Morticia Date: 21 Oct 00 - 06:02 PM Oh the Hard Cheese of Old England.......Les Barker |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Aged Cheese From: MK Date: 21 Oct 00 - 06:24 PM I heard there was a family in Ireland -the Murphy family -that makes 14 different kinds of cheeses. .........wait for it......... Cheeses Murphy! tah-dah-boom |
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Subject: ADD: Hymn to Cheeses (What a Food We Have...)^^^ From: raredance Date: 21 Oct 00 - 11:54 PM McGrath I might could answer your question if I knew what "mature" cheese was. Aging of cheese over here refers to the curing time (I realize that "curing" is probably another poor choice of words because cheese is really milk that has been infected not cured). For many cheeses the aging time appears to be a constant to the variety because they are invariably all the same. But for some cheeses, notably cheddar and swiss, differeing degrees of agedness can be obtained. You might find cheddar that has been aged 6 months, a year and even longer. A younger cheddar cheese tends to be much milder and "squeakier" (a non scientific term but readily experienced by biting into it. The older it gets, the more intense the flavors (sometimes referred to as "bite") and often the more crumbly it gets and the more it stimulates the ol factory. Since the aging process for these cheeses is a continuum, I don't know where on that line it would be considered "mature". For those varieties that are all processed alike, I suppose it would be mature when that time is up. My father-in-law made a comfortable living for himself working for The Wisconsin Cheeseman, a large mail order cheese house. I, myself, am a former? cheesehead, although there is evidence to indicate that the term "mature cheesehead" is an oxymoron. HYMN TO CHEESES
What a food we have in cheese,
Heed the US DAiry Council
rich r |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Aged Cheese From: rangeroger Date: 22 Oct 00 - 12:09 AM David Bromberg refers to himself on some albums as Le Grand Fromage. I don't know if he is aged or mature. rr |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Aged Cheese From: Jon Freeman Date: 22 Oct 00 - 12:28 AM Aged or mature, call it what you like but I love mature cheeses - the stronger the better although my mother swears that she one saw a stilton so mature that it started crawling across the counter of the shop in the village she grew up in - maybe that is a fraction too mature. Jon |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Aged Cheese From: CarolC Date: 22 Oct 00 - 12:55 AM McGrath of Harlow, To help you out a little bit more, in the U.S. when applying the word "aged" to cheese, it is pronounced with only one syllable. Like this...aajd, as opposed to aajed. This means that the cheese has been through a period of aging, rather than the fact that it is old. Your friend in cheese, Carol |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Aged Cheese From: Long Firm Freddie Date: 22 Oct 00 - 06:56 AM Fats Domino got his thrill on Blue Brie Hill, I believe. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Aged Cheese From: AllisonA(Animaterra) Date: 22 Oct 00 - 07:09 AM Rich R, that is brilliant! Is it your own? McGrath, thanks for the link. Isn't it true that old friends, like old cheese, improve with age? |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Aged Cheese From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 22 Oct 00 - 07:24 AM It sounds like we were right, and that Americans say aged where we'd say mature, in respect of cheese. We'd call it an aging process too, as with wine, but the product would never be called that name. Does this suggest that on the right side of the Atlantic people have more respect for cheese?
Anyway mature cheese is stronger, more flavour, and you don't need to so much of it to get a suitable effect (egin an omelette).
A bit like people.
I draw your attention to this cheesy thread, with a tasty bit of verse in it. Cracking, in fact.
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Subject: RE: BS: The Aged Cheese From: Liz the Squeak Date: 22 Oct 00 - 08:22 AM There was a song written in praise of the Dorset Blue Vinney, based, I think, on a work by William Barnes, dialect poet. Blue Vinney (corruption of veiny) is a blue cheese, but made with unpasteurised milk, so the bacteria that gives it the blue veins is a different strain, giving it a different flavour. The French wanted to ban it, via the EU because it was unpasteurised, so Dorset cheese producers sent a list of French cheeses to the EU and asked for them to be banned for the same reason. As the list was into double figures, the French withdrew the request..... Jon, if you like stinky cheese, you'll love Blue Vinney - you can get an inferior variety in Sainsburys, but the best stuff is sold in a delicatessen in Hardye's Arcade, South St, Dorchester, Dorset. LTS |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Aged Cheese From: CarolC Date: 22 Oct 00 - 08:29 AM McGrath of Harlow, Taking into consideration some of the abominations that are sold as "cheese" in this country (one of which is the variety called "American cheese"...comes already sliced and individually wrapped, tasts like vinyl), I would have to say that, for the most part, you are right. Cheese does not get much respect in this country. Another reason I'm thinking about defecting to your country. Carol |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Aged Cheese From: CarolC Date: 22 Oct 00 - 08:50 AM By the way, I like "sensiuble quakirties" it has a nice ring to it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Aged Cheese From: raredance Date: 22 Oct 00 - 11:35 AM The "Hymn To Cheeses" as far as I know has no known author. The version above was printed in in a book originally called "The Prairie Home Companion Folk Song Book" by Marcia and Jon Pankake (1988). The same book was reprinted under the title "Joe's Got A Head Like A Ping Pong Ball". In the 1980's Garrison Keillor solicited contributions to his regular Department of Folk Song feature on his radio show (Greg Brown was the official or unofficial chairman of the department). People sent in lots of stuff that they remembered from their youth and the book is a collection of those songs. rich r |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Aged Cheese From: Hotspur Date: 22 Oct 00 - 06:05 PM Carol, I object! I'm guessing you don't live in a dairy state, b/c if you did you would find enormous respect for REAL cheese. Not, of course, American, (which if you look at the label is actually called pasturized process cheese food--sounds SO appealing) but other types...cheddar, Muenster, Colby, Swiss, mozzarella, etc. etc. Major supermarkets here in upstate NY are careful to stock New York cheddar, because a lot of people swear quite literally that they can taste the difference between a NY cheese and a Vermont (I won't even get into the supposed inferiority of Wisconsin cheese.) *grin* |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Aged Cheese From: Sorcha Date: 22 Oct 00 - 06:13 PM Star Valley Wyoming makes "decent" cheese, but not up to NY quality, or European (English, French, Italian, etc.) I have trouble finding real Feta, let alone Bel Paese, Brie, etc. Mostly have this generic "Crystal Farms" or Kraft stuff.........uuuggghh. But, it's what we have so I live with it. For years, my parents belonged to a Cheese of the Month club that shipped REAL imported cheese for a very reasonable price. What a treat!! Lost track of the address, tho. That's how I discovered Havarti, Gorgonzola,Stilton, etc. It WASN'T Wisconsin Cheeseman, either. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Aged Cheese From: Jon Freeman Date: 22 Oct 00 - 06:31 PM Carol, there is no shortage of plastic cheddar, etc. in the UK either. I tend to eat inferior but bearable cheeses as that is all the shop near me does and I am normally too lazy to go shopping at the supermarkets at the other end of town. LTS, I don't have a Sainsburys near me but I will check ASDA out next time I am in that area and see if they have it as it has to be worth trying!. My favourite cheese from ASDA used to be what they called "Vintage New Zealand Cheddar" but I haven't seen it in a while, I suppose I could get some Shropshire Blue while I'm there... Jon |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Aged Cheese From: Little Hawk Date: 22 Oct 00 - 07:40 PM I don't regard cheese (or cow's milk) as real food for human beings, although I do like certain cheeses sometimes. If I eat very much of it though, I regret it, since the aftereffects are rather akin to having swallowed slow-setting cement...not good! Canadian restaurants and their customers are utterly obsessed with cheese. They put it on almost everything. It's gross. I have said before, and I will say again...the people in this town would happily eat dog shit if it had melted cheese poured all over it in copious quantities, with a little parmesan sprinkled on top for good measure. Okay, I'm exaggerating, but you get the general idea. I tend to stay away from dairy altogether if I can. I know this is probably disturbing to anyone who makes a living by selling such products, but I have my health to consider, and I have observed the effects of consuming dairy food quite carefully. In my case, not so good. In a dear friend's case, darn near fatal. Sorry, dairy farmers, but that's how it is with us...I'm sure there are people who love your stuff, so don't take this too personally. So, we are constantly having to ask the local restaurant to serve us this meal, that meal and the other meal...with NO DAIRY PLEASE! For milk I drink rice dream or soya milk. Another friend, Mike Latter, who is a fine singer-songwriter kids me by referring to it as "rice nightmare". Poor soul, he doesn't know what he's missing. It's so much better than milk that it's like comparing Green Day to Mozart (the milk being Green Day). Here's to Rice Dream!!! Yeah! |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Aged Cheese From: CarolC Date: 22 Oct 00 - 08:18 PM By golly, I think I'm actually embroiled in my first real controversy here in the Mudcat. Hot dog! (I mean hot cheese...) Little Hawk, I agree with you about dairy not being good for us over all. I do find, however, that using organic dairy products lessens the bad effects considerably. And I use them sparingly. But I do cherish a little bit of very good cheese from time to time. And I've found that the soy cheeses make me dizzy. The only cheese I have in the house right now is feta. Last night while reading this thread, I got such a hankering for cheese, I ate a hunk of the feta straight up. Not something I would ordinarily do with feta. Carol |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Aged Cheese From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 22 Oct 00 - 08:29 PM Backmin Victorian times they used to tell people that cheese was only safe if it was cooked. Of course they didn't have fridges, so maybe they had a point.
My father-in-law never eats cheese, and he was 89 today, and he is still pretty nimble.
But I can't imagine not eating cheese. If I had a choice of giving up beer or cheese...I think I might give up beer. What a horrible thought. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Aged Cheese From: Sorcha Date: 22 Oct 00 - 08:41 PM Feta straight up? ugh, what a horrible thought. Cheese is bad for us, tho, esp those of us with animal protein allergies or any kind of gut problems. I can't live without it though, and every time I think of "Heidi" and her grandfather, I just have to go grill thick sliced bread and top it with melted cheese.........nothing better (except MAYBE? Vegemite and toast?) |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Aged Cheese From: Jon Freeman Date: 22 Oct 00 - 08:52 PM Not sure about Vegimite as I have never tried it but a bit of Marmite goes well with cheese on toast. Jon |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Aged Cheese From: Hotspur Date: 22 Oct 00 - 09:19 PM I've tried Rice Dream...it wasn't bad by any means, but it was sweet, which real (OK, cow) milk wouldn't be. Giving up cheese...wow...far too scary a thought to contemplate. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Aged Cheese From: Sorcha Date: 22 Oct 00 - 09:25 PM From a person who is allergic to cow's milk, and really, all animal products: Cow milk is too sweet. I can only manage milk on a dry cereal that is supposed to be sweet. Can't drink it in a glass at all. YUCK. (Not supposed to have any, but how do you do dry cereal without liquid) "Milk", per se, is disgusting. Spoiled milk, aka cheese, on the other hand, is wonderful. What a life........ |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Aged Cheese From: sophocleese Date: 22 Oct 00 - 11:27 PM On Friday I finally found some Gjetost cheese! I've been looking for it for the last couple of months. Its a very sweet, almost fudge textured, caramel coloured cheese made from cow's milk and goat's milk whey slowly cooked to caramelize it. I used to eat it as a kid sometimes when a particular delicatessan had it in stock and I loved it. Two months ago it came up in conversation and I just had to have some. AAH the delight of having a craving finally fulfilled! Next I'll be wanting some Stilton. Oh amd Little Hawk, they don't put cheese on everything in Orillia. I often get stares when I ask for blue cheese dressing to go with my fries. Its worth it though, another delightful taste. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Aged Cheese From: CarolC Date: 22 Oct 00 - 11:43 PM This is a lovely thread. Thank you for starting it, McGrath of Harlow. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Aged Cheese From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 24 Oct 00 - 07:40 PM I take it all cheesefriends saw this magnificent saga about cheese? |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Aged Cheese From: GUEST,mousethief (at the library) Date: 24 Oct 00 - 07:59 PM A friend in cheese is a friend indeed!
Alex |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Aged Cheese From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 24 Oct 00 - 08:01 PM Just recently I saw someone's post (here at Mudcat???) that referred to "American cheese, individually sliced and plastic-wrapped to keep flavor out." Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Aged Cheese From: Hotspur Date: 24 Oct 00 - 08:10 PM Yes! Yes! That's it exactly! American should NOT be considered cheese. Sludge, maybe... |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Aged Cheese From: GUEST,mousethief Date: 24 Oct 00 - 08:11 PM "American cheese" is dreadful stuff. Very telling that it is often marketed as "American style cheese food product." It certainly ain't cheese.
Alex |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Aged Cheese From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 25 Oct 00 - 09:05 AM I assume there are people in America making decent cheese? It's not that hard to do, on a small scale, I believe. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Aged Cheese From: GUEST,Patrish Date: 25 Oct 00 - 11:49 AM I love extra mature cheddar toasted on decent bread with just a little touch of marmite. I love crumbly white cheese as well (Lancashire)But my favourite is Parmasan - not grated, but in graeat big chunks I love cheese! Patrish |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Aged Cheese From: mousethief Date: 25 Oct 00 - 12:01 PM > I assume there are people in America making decent cheese? It's not that hard to do, on a small scale, I believe. Tillamook! From Tillamook County, Oregon. Best cheese in the US&A. They don't make "American Cheese" but their cheddar wins awards all the time, and tastes good too!
Alex |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Aged Cheese From: MMario Date: 25 Oct 00 - 12:28 PM yes there are people making decent cheese in the US. However, most of them are the dairy equivilants of true micro-breweries - and have a limited sales area....or are exclusivly selling to up-up-up-up-scale restauraunts. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Aged Cheese From: Hotspur Date: 25 Oct 00 - 06:43 PM Yes, of course there are people making decent, even fantastic cheeses in the States. There seem to be a lot of them around me...no big surprise, NY is a dairy state. Has anyone not from the Northeast heard of Heluva Good or Cabot cheeses? I'm curious b/c they're the best "mass-produced" cheeses we get that aren't imports, and I wondered if they are available in other parts of the country. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Aged Cheese From: Little Hawk Date: 25 Oct 00 - 06:48 PM You're right, Carol. Pretty cool thread. Have you folks read the "Queen of Cheese" poem on that other thread I launched? Sorry, still don't know how to make a "blue clicky" thing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Aged Cheese From: CarolC Date: 25 Oct 00 - 09:23 PM McGrath of Harlow did it for you Little Hawk. Look several posts up. The clickie says "this magnificant saga about cheese". It's a cheesy poem, alright. I love it. Carol |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Aged Cheese From: Jim Dixon Date: 25 Oct 00 - 09:33 PM I found some lovely web sites about cheese! Here's the text of a USDA pamphlet called How to Buy Cheese. It contains rather simple descriptions of various types of cheese. A National Dairy Council page called Kinds Of Cheese And Cheese Products for more technical definitions. Here you can find the winners of 2000 World Championship Cheese Contest sponsored by the Wisconsin Cheese Makers Association. The World Champion Cheese is an aged cheddar from Tasmania! |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Aged Cheese From: Troll Date: 25 Oct 00 - 10:59 PM Sorcha, a friend of mine who is lactose intolerant (love them scientific terms) puts apple juice on his dry cereal. He says it'e quite tasty. Have you tried goats milk. Often people who cannot tolerate cows milk do very well on goats milk. Most health food stores carry it. For those of you in England, try some of the Manx cheeses if you can find them. Druidale is quite good and so is Strong Manx.I got some cheese in Scotland last summer made from ewes milk but I can't remember the name or even where we bought it. Maybe on Orkney; they had some nice cheeses up there. troll p.s. Is there any possibility of getting a Spell Checker on the Forum? |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Aged Cheese From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 25 Oct 00 - 11:48 PM Speaking of goat's milk, I once bought some truly dangerous goat cheese; I'd been living in France (Aix-en-Provence) and wanted an interesting present for my father. Most shops denied the existence of the sort of thing I was looking for (and some surreptitiously crossed themselves as I left), but I eventually found a little Corsican place that agreed to dig some up for me. Literally; it's a soft cheese that you put into little pots, and then bury for a year or two. When disinterred, it's a sort of grey paste resembling Gentleman's Relish. I bought two pots, and wrapped them in aluminium foil and several layers of plastic; nevertheless, all my clothes smelt of cheese by the time I unpacked a few days later. I tried a little, spread on a dry biscuit, and could still taste it after 24 hours. I never did find out what it was called, which is perhaps just as well for the sake of humanity, or at any rate those of us who are not Corsican... Malcolm |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Aged Cheese From: Haruo Date: 26 Oct 00 - 12:18 AM Sounds like a good kim chee! Liland |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Aged Cheese From: Lyrical Lady Date: 26 Oct 00 - 12:34 AM Okay you GUYS!! WHO cut the cheese.....PHEW! |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Aged Cheese From: kimmers Date: 26 Oct 00 - 12:45 AM Tillamook Cheese!! Alex, are you a fellow Oregonian? Tillamook Medium Cheddar is one of our household staples. We eat very little meat, but you give us a hunk of TMC and some good grainy bread and we're in heaven. Add a few apples and some good stout... ecstasy. The last few years, I've come to appreciate the French custom of cheese as dessert. And if I had to give up either beer or cheese? the beer would lose, hands down. But tea (English Breakfast, hot, with milk and sugar) is the one thing I could never, ever give up. As far as the nutritional aspects: cheese has been a food in the West and in the Middle East for thousands of years. Hasn't killed us yet and it sure makes me happy. I know some folks can't digest the stuff and I feel extremely sorry for them... but I have yet to ever see anything that convinces me that cheese is bad for us in and of itself. It's high-calorie and should be eaten sparingly, but ban it from my diet? NEVER!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Aged Cheese From: wysiwyg Date: 26 Oct 00 - 01:54 AM McGrath, I think the confusion is this-- one ages the cheese. (Don't we age fine wine? To age the wine in a barrel, for example.) Technical term, a verb, to age, not quite meaning [to get old]. The cheese is not aged, it has BEEN aged. Aged cheese meaning cheese that has been aged. Example, "This cheese needs to be aged just the right length of time." Now a mature cheese sounds like it just has grown up, gotten wise and crumbly as do we all if we are lucky. Does it follow that in your parts, one would set out as a cheesemaker to "mature the cheese"? Prolly not. What do they say though? Example, "This cheese needs to be grown the heck up." Nope, just doesn't work. Scary thought. Can cheese have a midlife crisis or menopause?? Worse, I think-- cheese puberty???? Cheese with gray hair (I swear I've seen that)? Cheese in diapers? Seen that too, am I right parents of breastfed babies??? No that would be cheese in napkins, and we do see that too, but in our laps at table.... Cheese puberty. Or the dread pre-teen cheese. Why do these make me think of Spaw? ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Aged Cheese From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 26 Oct 00 - 01:43 PM I'm a bit sorry its aged with one syllable ratyher than with two - the thought on an agéd cheese being eaten by an agéd man has a poignancy all its own.
I think cheesemakers in England probably would talk about leaving a cheese to mature rather than to age - but anyway, at the end of it all, it'd be labelled in the shops as "mature". And I take it in America it'd be labelled as "aged"?
While we're on the topic, what we normally call "Lemon Curd" in England is sometimes referred to as "Lemon Cheese" - am I right in thinking that that is the normal American term for it?
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Subject: RE: BS: The Aged Cheese From: mousethief Date: 26 Oct 00 - 01:54 PM Kimmers -- I live in Washington State, just to yer north. My li'l sister lives in Oregon though, with her hubby, and my godfather lives in Oregon too. Tillamook medium cheddar is a delight. We get the sliced stuff and use it on burgers, for snacking, etc. And the bricks for mac-n-cheese, etc. We always have some in the fridge. Now can you drive over to Tillamook for me and ask them why the heck they put artificial vanilla flavoring in their ice cream? I'd buy it if it were naturally flavored.
Alex |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Aged Cheese From: Hotspur Date: 26 Oct 00 - 02:15 PM Hi, McGrath, Yes. Cheese that has been aged is aged cheese, never mature cheese. As for Lemon Cheese vs. Lemon Curd, I've only seen it as a British import, when it's referred to as whatever the manufacturer likes to call it. I doubt most Americans would know what either of them were. Cheers, Hotspur |