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Lyr Add: The Short Cut to Rosses (Nora H Chesson)

Alice 22 Oct 00 - 01:58 PM
Alice 22 Oct 00 - 02:03 PM
MartinRyan 22 Oct 00 - 04:53 PM
Alice 22 Oct 00 - 06:06 PM
Sorcha 22 Oct 00 - 06:21 PM
GUEST,Larry L 16 Feb 09 - 11:35 PM
GUEST 17 Feb 09 - 12:34 PM
An Buachaill Caol Dubh 17 Feb 09 - 02:33 PM
MartinRyan 17 Feb 09 - 03:32 PM
An Buachaill Caol Dubh 19 Feb 09 - 10:14 AM
Matthew Edwards 19 Feb 09 - 05:30 PM
Anglo 20 Feb 09 - 02:52 AM
Matthew Edwards 20 Feb 09 - 05:00 AM
GUEST,leeneia 20 Feb 09 - 11:19 AM
Matthew Edwards 20 Feb 09 - 01:32 PM
GUEST 08 Mar 09 - 01:23 PM
GUEST,Peter 06 Aug 09 - 07:04 AM
ard mhacha 06 Aug 09 - 12:30 PM
Jim Dixon 09 Aug 09 - 10:36 AM
Alice 09 Aug 09 - 10:46 AM
Matthew Edwards 09 Aug 09 - 11:35 AM
ard mhacha 10 Aug 09 - 08:32 AM
Big Tim 10 Aug 09 - 09:54 AM
GUEST,Bernard McRory 24 Aug 10 - 10:38 AM
Max 23 Mar 11 - 12:45 PM
MartinRyan 23 Mar 11 - 12:52 PM
Max 23 Mar 11 - 01:29 PM
Jeri 23 Mar 11 - 01:41 PM
GUEST,leeneia 23 Mar 11 - 05:11 PM
GUEST 23 Mar 11 - 05:23 PM
GUEST,leeneia 24 Mar 11 - 10:41 AM
MartinRyan 02 Aug 11 - 10:48 AM
Jim Dixon 05 Aug 11 - 06:03 PM
MartinRyan 10 Aug 11 - 05:10 PM
Max 09 Jun 17 - 01:03 PM
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Subject: Lyr Add: THE SHORTCUT THROUGH THE ROSSES
From: Alice
Date: 22 Oct 00 - 01:58 PM

I'll be thankful for any corrections to these lyrics. I learned it in '96 from a radio performance of the Irish soprano Frances Lucey - it was her New York debut, aired on National Public Radio. I may not have heard a word or two correctly. - Alice

THE SHORTCUT THROUGH THE ROSSES
(Nora Hopper, 1902)

By the shortcut through the Rosses
A fairy girl I met,
I was taken by her beauty,
As a fish is in the net.

A fairy girl, she was so fair,
So very fair was she,
With her hair as bright as the seaweed,
That flows in from the sea.

By the shortcut through the Rosses
Twas on a summer's day,
I heard the fairies piping,
And they piped my heart away.

They piped 'til I was mad with joy
But when I was alone,
I found they'd piped my heart away,
And in my breast a stone.

By the shortcut through the Rosses
'Tis I'll go nevermore,
Lest she should steal my soul away,
Who stole my heart before.

Lest she take my soul and crush it,
Like a daisy in her hand,
For the shortcut through the Rosses is,
The way to fairy land.

Alice


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Shortcut Through The Rosses
From: Alice
Date: 22 Oct 00 - 02:03 PM

I think it may be the "fairy girl she was so fair etc...." part that I may not have quite right. If anyone else has a better source of the lyrics, please correct this.
thanks

Alice in Montana


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Shortcut Through The Rosses
From: MartinRyan
Date: 22 Oct 00 - 04:53 PM

The second vers as you have it should go:

The fern uncurled to look at her
So very fair was she
....
That floats in from the sea.

Written by an Englishwoman named Nora Hopper, late 19C. Its usually laid out as three eight line verses.

Regards


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Shortcut Through The Rosses
From: Alice
Date: 22 Oct 00 - 06:06 PM

thank you very much


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Shortcut Through The Rosses
From: Sorcha
Date: 22 Oct 00 - 06:21 PM

(Maxim: "Short Cuts Make Long Delays") Sorry, couldn't resist...........glad you got an answer, Alice.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Shortcut Through The Rosses
From: GUEST,Larry L
Date: 16 Feb 09 - 11:35 PM

thank you so dearly
i was searching for this song
                      serious case of nostalgia
my mother loved to sing many songs to us
      used to sing this when i was less than 6 yrs old

one can hear an ancient version at web site

http://www.archive.org/details/JohnMcCormack
click on the song list at right
at upper right see reord if you want [ to realplayer ]


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Shortcut Through The Rosses
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Feb 09 - 12:34 PM

I believe that would be the Rosses near Dungloe, County Donegal, Ireland


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Shortcut Through The Rosses
From: An Buachaill Caol Dubh
Date: 17 Feb 09 - 02:33 PM

In addition to what Martin Ryan wrote about "the fern uncurled to look at her", John McCormack sung these words and also the following:

"Twas on the First o' May" (not "Summer's day");

"I found me heart was piped away..."

"Lest she might also steal me soul"

"Like a dead leaf in her hand"

By the way, I'm pretty sure the song on the record I've got is entitled "The Short Cut TO the Rosses" (which is how I've always sung it). However, I'm writing this in a Library, from memory, and therefore won't be too firm in this; likewise, the use of "me" for "my" is how I recall McCormack's version. I think it dates from the mid-1930s.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Shortcut Through The Rosses
From: MartinRyan
Date: 17 Feb 09 - 03:32 PM

Wonder where I found that? I've no idea! Certainly, my own recollection is of "TO the Rosses".
It was never a song I cared much for - until I heard it sung, many years ago, on an island in Bantry Bay, in a way that made the hair stand on the back of my neck.
Regards


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Shortcut through the Rosses
From: An Buachaill Caol Dubh
Date: 19 Feb 09 - 10:14 AM

Yes, I recall reading that earlier on "Mudcat" (i.e. the message must have been posted by yourself!), and it did make me think; McCormack does tend to "lilt" this song, with a really lyrical light touch on the word "heart", occurring on high notes, and this influenced my own way of doing the song - but I've since experimented, privately, with conveying a kind of horror in the final verse. So, thanks for that hint.

Mind you, I still sing the last syllable on the octave above....


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Shortcut through the Rosses
From: Matthew Edwards
Date: 19 Feb 09 - 05:30 PM

The earliest reference I can find to this song comes from the British Library catalogue as a music sheet:-
'By the short Cut to the Rosses. Song, the words by N.Hopper, arranged to an old Donegal Air by C.M.Fox [Charlotte Milligan Fox]: London and New York: Boosey & Co., 1902'.

Eleanor Jane (Nora) Hooper, (1871-1906), writer, has an entry in the DNB. She was a poet and novelist greatly influenced by the Celtic Twilight although she never set foot in Ireland until 1905. Her first book of poems and stories of Irish fairy-lore, Ballads in Prose (1894) was highly praised by W B Yeats, despite her apparent plagiarising of Yeats and Katherine Tynan. This book and three later volumes of poetry can be read online via the Internet Archive, but none of these books appear to include 'By the short Cut to the Rosses'.
She married Wilfred Hugh Chesson in 1901, by whom she had three children, and she died in 1906 shortly after the birth of their third.

There is an undated letter in the Surrey History Centre from Frank Kidson written to Lucy Broadwood while staying at Mrs Chesson's home in St John's Wood. So it might appear that Nora Hopper/Chesson was familiar with folk song collectors.

This is certainly confirmed by her association with Charlotte Milligan Fox (1864-1916) who was a founder of the Irish Folksong Society in 1904, and editor of the Journal. Charlotte Milligan Fox was the sister of Alice Milligan (c.1865-1953), editor of the Northern Patriot and the Shan Van Vocht with Anna McManus (1866-1902), who is better known as Ethna Carbery, the writer of the 1898 song about Roddy McCorley.

Matthew Edwards


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Shortcut through the Rosses
From: Anglo
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 02:52 AM

Wonderful info, Matthew. As a poor peasant I enquire, DNB? Directory of Noble Britons? :-0


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Shortcut through the Rosses
From: Matthew Edwards
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 05:00 AM

DNB? Directory of Noble Britons? :-0

It sometimes feels like that!

It is the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography whose online edition is accessible through most public libraries in the UK.* The achievements of many minor British figures are preserved along with records of the good and the great, and some of the not-so-good as well. Roy Palmer has contributed some excellent articles on the lives of Harry Cox, Sam Larner, Walter Pardon and others including Frank Kidson.

The information about Charlotte Milligan Fox, Alice Milligan and Anna MacManus nee Johnston (pseudonym Ethna Carbery) has already appeared on Mudcat in various threads about The Foggy Dew (Easter 1916) and Roddy McCorley, but some very brief details for them are given in the Dictionary of Ulster Biography, while Alice Milligan and Anna MacManus also have entries in the DNB.

*NB If you aren't a member of a UK public library you can still join online and, apparently, even from outside the UK, although I don't understand how this works. Different libraries interpret membership conditions in varying ways, and even then have different ways of permitting online access to subscription-only resources such as the DNB or the Gale/British Library archives of old newspapers. All I can suggest is exploring some of the links given here:- UK Public Libraries.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Shortcut through the Rosses
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 11:19 AM

FYI and also FMOI (for my own information)

'The Rosses Description

(Local Name: Na Rosa) The much-indented coastal area known as the Rosses (Na Rosa, "The Headlands") in northwestern Donegal extends from Gweebarra Bay in the south to Inishfree Bay in the north - a tract of generally flat country of gray rocks, little loughs and tiny fields enclosed by drystone walls. It is a predominantly Irish-speaking area.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Shortcut through the Rosses
From: Matthew Edwards
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 01:32 PM

The more I look at this song the more I'm convinced it must derive from some original Irish text; I'd venture to suggest that it probably is a (very) fanciful reworking, with imported fairy girl, of the song of Peadar Breatnach Chuagh Me 'Na Rosann ("I went to visit the Rosses").

A text and translation of that song appears in the Mudcat thread Lyr Add: Chuaigh Me 'Na Rosann, based on the version recorded by Noel Hamilton in 1967 from William Rodgers of Tory Island and published in:- Peter Kennedy (ed.), Folksongs of Britain and Ireland, London, Oak, 1975 pp.84-85. In the notes it is stated that a version of the song to a different tune was first published in New York in the Gaelic language magazine An Gaodhal in 1888.

That would tie in quite neatly with the known dates for Nora Hopper. I'd like to see the 1888 version in An Gaodhal, but I rather think that the song by Nora Hopper demonstrates the enervating effect of the Celtic Twilight mode on genuine folk material.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Shortcut through the Rosses
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Mar 09 - 01:23 PM

By the shortcut through the Rosses
A fairy girl I met,
I was taken by her beauty,
As a fish is in the net.


A fairy girl, she was so fair,( a fair man called to look at her)
So very fair was she,
With her hair as bright as the seaweed,
That flows in from the sea.

Hi. My name is Pat From South Ireland and as a very small child my Baby sitter would sing this to me but i dont think i ever heard it all im assuming i was asleep after verse two. Thanks for giving me all of this it brings back so many memories, as im now 58years old. I do remember verse two line one.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Shortcut through the Rosses
From: GUEST,Peter
Date: 06 Aug 09 - 07:04 AM

I remember the John McCormack 78 record.
It was "to" the Rosses and
verse 2 line 1 was "The fellman turned to look at her" I used to think it was "The fern uncurled"
Verse 3 line 2 was "Twas on the first of May"
Otherwise all the verses I knew were there.
Peter.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Shortcut through the Rosses
From: ard mhacha
Date: 06 Aug 09 - 12:30 PM

John McCormack singing this song,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ys2aHkyIx1s


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE SHORT CUT TO ROSSES (Nora H Chesson)
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 09 Aug 09 - 10:36 AM

From Aquamarines by Nora Hopper Chesson (London: Grant Richards, 1902), page 72:

[Note: there is no "the" before "Rosses" in the title or in the repeated phrase.]


THE SHORT CUT TO ROSSES

By the short cut to Rosses a fairy girl I met,
I was taken in her beauty as a fish is in a net.
The fern uncurled to look at her, so very fair was she,
With her hair as bright as seaweed new-drawn from out the sea.

By the short cut to Rosses ('twas on the first of May)
I heard the fairies piping, and they piped my heart away;
They piped till I was mad with joy, but when I was alone
I found my heart was piped away and in my breast a stone.

By the short cut to Rosses 'tis I'll go never more,
Lest she should also steal my soul that stole my heart before,
Lest she take my soul and crush it like a dead leaf in her hand,
For the short cut to Rosses is the way to Fairyland.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Shortcut through the Rosses
From: Alice
Date: 09 Aug 09 - 10:46 AM

Thank you for the additional information and corrections.

Alice


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Shortcut through the Rosses
From: Matthew Edwards
Date: 09 Aug 09 - 11:35 AM

Well done again Jim; I still don't fully understand though how you are able to unearth stuff that isn't there! When I followed your link to Nora Hopper Chesson's book Aquamarines all I could discover was "No preview available".

The song as sung by John McCormack is a beautiful song; what I find questionable are the references to fairies, which was rather an obsession of the time. It seemed that no Irish country person could wander down the lane without Lady Gregory or some other collector leaping out from behind a hedge and demanding to know a story or song about fairies!

There were plenty of such stories, but generally it wasn't thought wise to mention the topic. This was the pragmatic attitude adopted by one woman who, when asked if she believed in fairies, replied "No, but they're there anyway!"

The romanticised fairyland of the poetry of the Celtic Twilight glosses over this fatalistic attitude, and in my opinion falsifies the hard-edged realistic approach to the Otherworld which is such a feature of Irish folklore.

Matthew Edwards


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Shortcut through the Rosses
From: ard mhacha
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 08:32 AM

Matthew we are all so gullible and if you believe that you will believe anything, its only a song.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Shortcut through the Rosses
From: Big Tim
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 09:54 AM

The following is the entry in 'The Oxford Companion to Irish Literature' (1996).

HOPPER, Nora [Jane] (1871-1906), poet.
Born in Exeter, daughter of an Irish officer in the British army, she published some volumes of poetry in the Celtic Twilight mode including 'Ballads in prose' (1894), 'Under Quicken Boughs' (1896), 'Songs of the Morning' (1900), 'Aquamarines' (1902), and, 'Dirge for Aine and other Poems'(1906).

W.B. Yeats' critical enthusiasm later diminished as the resemblance to his own early poetry became increasingly apparent. Thomas MacDonagh nevertheless considered her one of the poets outside Ireland who contributed usefully to the development of an Irish literature in English. A translation of her three-act Irish opera 'Muirgeas' made by 'Tórma' [Tadgh O Donchadha] was published in the 'New Ireland Review' (1910).


There is an article on the song, titled 'By the Short Cut to the Rosses', in a book called 'Irish Ballads' by Benedict Kiely and others, published by Gill and Macmillan (1996).

btw, my Donegal born and raised Granny, Rose, believed in fairies. That's the way it was in those days in that place.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Shortcut through the Rosses
From: GUEST,Bernard McRory
Date: 24 Aug 10 - 10:38 AM

A wonderfull song. But I have had great difficulty in trying to obtain the sheet music,for the piano, without any sucsess. Can anyone help? Might it be avalable on line,for me to download?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Short Cut to Rosses (Nora H Chesson)
From: Max
Date: 23 Mar 11 - 12:45 PM

Somone has filed a DMCA complaint against this thread. More information. It is being blocked from appearing in Google results.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Short Cut to Rosses (Nora H Chesson)
From: MartinRyan
Date: 23 Mar 11 - 12:52 PM

Eh? Whazzat about, Max?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Short Cut to Rosses (Nora H Chesson)
From: Max
Date: 23 Mar 11 - 01:29 PM

Someone is claiming that we're infringing on copyright or the ol' "I had it first" bull. Nothing new, just surprised that they'd file a complaint with Google without ever contacting me.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Short Cut to Rosses (Nora H Chesson)
From: Jeri
Date: 23 Mar 11 - 01:41 PM

I just Googled, and this thread came up as the third hit.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Short Cut to Rosses (Nora H Chesson)
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 23 Mar 11 - 05:11 PM

Here's a video that gives the tune:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WuFSy1yNsI

I don't believe I'll do any work with it myself.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Short Cut to Rosses (Nora H Chesson)
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Mar 11 - 05:23 PM

I thought it would be nice to know something about UK copyright. The site for the copyright service of the United Kingdom says:


6.Duration of copyright
The 1988 Copyright, Designs and Patents Act states the duration of copyright as;

i.For literary, dramatic, musical or artistic works
70 years from the end of the calendar year in which the last remaining author of the work dies.

============
Since Nora Hopper died in 1906, the words became public domain at the end of 1976. The tune is said to be traditional, so that's no problem.

Some performer may have copyrighted a recording of this song, but since no recording is here, they have no right to complain. Somebody was probably jumping to conclusions.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Short Cut to Rosses (Nora H Chesson)
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 24 Mar 11 - 10:41 AM

'Twas I posted the post just above.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Short Cut to Rosses (Nora H Chesson)
From: MartinRyan
Date: 02 Aug 11 - 10:48 AM

The Irish Traditional Music Archive has included the original sheet music to this (as mentioned by Matthew Edwards earlier) in its latest online resources:

Click here

Regards


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Subject: Lyr Add: BY THE SHORT CUT TO THE ROSSES (Chesson)
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 05 Aug 11 - 06:03 PM

That Irish Traditional Music Archive is a new site to me! I will bookmark it. Meanwhile, I have compared the sheet music to the text I previously posted (from Mrs. Chesson's book of poetry) and below I have boldfaced the words that are different:


BY THE SHORT CUT TO THE ROSSES
Words by Nora Hopper (Mrs. Chesson). Old Donegal Air, arranged by C. Milligan Fox.
Copyright 1902 by Boosey & Co.


By the short cut to the Rosses a fairy girl I met,
I was taken by her beauty as a fish is in a net.
The fern uncurl'd to look at her, so very fair was she,
With her hair as bright as seaweed that floats in from the sea.

By the short cut to the Rosses ('twas on the first of May),
I heard the fairies piping, and they piped my heart away;
They piped till I was mad with joy, but when I was alone
I found my heart was piped away and in my breast a stone.

By the short cut to the Rosses 'tis I'll go never more,
Lest she should also steal my soul who stole my heart before;
Lest she take my soul and crush it like a dead leaf in her hand,
For the short cut to the Rosses is the way to Fairyland, way to Fairyland.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Short Cut to Rosses (Nora H Chesson)
From: MartinRyan
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 05:10 PM

Jim

That Irish Traditional Music Archive is a new site to me! I will bookmark it.

The archive website was quite limited until very recently. It's now expanding rapidly and should become an important resource on Irish music and song in its own right, soon.

Regards


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Short Cut to Rosses (Nora H Chesson)
From: Max
Date: 09 Jun 17 - 01:03 PM

FYI, this thread was flagged today by Google as containing copyrighted information again and therefor will not display ads on it or let it be included in Google search results.

As are the current bullshit rules, the burden of proof is on us to counter this.

My guess is that they just did a title match and found a record of a song by this title that is copyrighted but this particular version is in the public domain. Can anyone confirm this?


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