BS: Christmas Cancelled

Subject: Christmas Cancelled
From: nutty
Date: 30 Nov 00 - 06:10 PM

I've just heard on the news tonight that, because of the crisis in the Middle East, the Christmas celebrations have been cancelled in Bethlehem

I find it incredibly sad that over the past 2000years some factions of our world have learnt so little about Peace on Earth , Good will to men,

Anyone else feel the same??

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Cancelled
From: mousethief
Date: 30 Nov 00 - 06:14 PM

It's very sad, but not unprecedented. Many border closings and curfews in Israel occur on Moslem and Christian holy days.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Cancelled
From: roopoo
Date: 01 Dec 00 - 01:41 AM

It is good to hear that the Israelis are allowing the Palestinians access to an important Mosque, and have also opened Gaza airport in honour of the start of Ramadan. Any chance there'd be a respite for Hannukah? It'd sure be a start.

Andrea

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Cancelled
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Dec 00 - 03:26 AM

My mind is kind of going around in circles about this one. On the one hand, it would be a nice concession to peace on earth, etc., if Christmas celebrations could be held in Bethlehem. On the other hand, it's peoples' extreme attachment to specific pieces of real estate that causes so much acrimony and so many wars in the first place.

Have I got any answers? No.

Carol

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Cancelled
From: JedMarum
Date: 01 Dec 00 - 08:41 AM

I think we've already cancelled Christmas in Texas. Now we just have 'happy holidays' instead. You know; "Go ahead, spend your money on gifts and festivities, take time off from work and visit family, just don't mention that Jesus stuff." If Americans find the same distaste for Patriotism as we have developed for Christianity we will soon be celebrating the fourth of July on the nearest Saturday, and calling it "Freedom Day" or something!

Sorry to hear about the Bethlehem celebration being cancelled, but under the circumstances, it seems like a prudent move.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Cancelled
From: Amos
Date: 01 Dec 00 - 08:51 AM

Judging by the erosions being tolerated in our franchise, that day may come sooner than you fear. The elective dysfunction is a telling symptom -- not that we can't vote, but that it doesn't matter whether we do or not -- the Tammany machine gets to change the game at will.

Anyway, I think VOltaire put it well:

BELIEFS

"As long as people believe in absurdities
they will continue to commit atrocities."

Voltaire

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Cancelled
From: Mrrzy
Date: 01 Dec 00 - 09:12 AM

GO, Voltaire. And, not to rain on the parade or anything, but I haven't heard this yet from a newspaper or radio, only from the Internet. Does anyone know if it is actually the case? You know how those urban legends get...

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Cancelled
From: JedMarum
Date: 01 Dec 00 - 09:16 AM

Mrrzy - check it out here

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Cancelled
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 01 Dec 00 - 09:17 AM

Well Oliver Cromwell did it way back 300 years ago, and given the amount of commercialism around, it might not be a bad thing!

It is distressing that access is not allowed to the most holy site at Christmas, if indeed it is being halted, but according to a priest friend who was there 2 years ago, it has become so tacky and commercial that we might all be better off staying at home!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Cancelled
From: JedMarum
Date: 01 Dec 00 - 09:27 AM

I don't get your point Amos. What are the absurdities? The Israelis perspective? The Palestinian perspective or Christmas?

And as to the elective issue, it is frustrating that we have not concluded the process yet, but I don't think dysfunctional yet. While there's much wailing and gnashing of teeth over the matter, and attempts from both sides to swing the final outcome in their favor; we have legal procedure, and in many cases precedent to follow. We will bring this matter to conclusion, through our legal processes, and almost certainly within the time frame prescribed by our long standing law. You and I may not like the result, but that is another matter - and it is very likely that even if we don;t like the winner - half of the US will, no matter who wins!

The glass is half full!

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Cancelled
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 01 Dec 00 - 09:39 AM

I don't recollect Christmas or Christianity being cancelled anywhere in the US and I do follow the news fairly closely. As for the distaste for Christianity, let's review some of the things that have been done in the name of Christianity. 1- The inquisition, a sterling example of man practicing the word of God and sharing his love with those who don't know it. 2- The right to life terrorists who blow up family planning clinic or kill their workers or patients because abortion is a sin in their eyes. (Mine too) 3- We musn't tell anyone about birth control even though we're choking the life out of the planet but oh yeah, the Christian thing to do is send you money to hepl support all the starving people that we're not supposed to tell about birth control. 4- the believe in most christian religions that women are some form of inferior life form and thus incapable of knowing the will of God. 5- Northern Ireland, the Thirty years War, The hundred years war, Bosnia,the crusades (My personal favorite was the children's crusades, you know letting the kids die so the christians can occupy land that doesn't belong to them and "Convert" the natives.) I don't expect my views to sit well with some but frededom of speech requires that the unpopular be heard also. I have no quarrel with Christianity. I do have with with what has been done and is being done by men who justify it with "It's God's will." That is pure unadulterated horse manure! The good Lord gave each and everyone of us free will. The examples above are but a few of the way these so-called Christians have chosen to exercise it. If that results in people developing a distatse for Christianity perhaps there is ample reason. Allow me to also clarify that I consider myself a Christian. I will (and have) defended the right of people in this country (The United States) to practice religion as they see fit. My Christmas wish is that my fellow Christians practice the religion the way it was intended (thou shall not judge lest ye be judged.) If I have offended some sensibilities, my apologies. I believe the only ones who will be offended by my remarks are those who feel I struck to close to home. I do know many Christians who lead upstanding christian lives and are worthy of the name christian. (Several here at mudcat) To them. please realize that my arrows and barbs are not aimed at you. Nor should my remarks be construed as a personal attack on anyone! I think I've been here long enough and posted enough for ewveryone here to know I don't indulge in flaming. Thanks for listening, kindest reguards, Neil aka Irish sergeant.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Cancelled
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 01 Dec 00 - 11:12 AM

I forgot to comment on the lack of celebration in Bethlehem. It is indeed unfortunate but as the article stated the area is in a state of war even if the war isn't declared. I believe in this case the authorities made the wisest decision (A scary thought to be sure.) As to the election, it will be settled and let's face it geverning by popular consent isn't easy in the best of times. this just proves that the system does work we just have to give it a chance and let the courts do their job. Obviously neither side is going to concede and I for one would like to see all votes tallied. If that happens then we will all know that the right man won and not because his party acted like hooligans and the person in charge of the election boards ruled so the person she actively campaigned for got the votes. Irish (Who really is a niceguy inspiteof the rants he goeson)

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Cancelled
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 01 Dec 00 - 11:20 AM

on a hugely selfish mode....

I've had such a SH 1 T year I want to cancel christmas too...

Will be my first christmas without my granny and cousins father...

But I agree it is sad... but a highly politcal matter - which has very very unbalance arguements on both sides.

not enough space to comment on this really - or time

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Cancelled
From: Gypsy
Date: 01 Dec 00 - 11:19 PM

Oh, Ella, am so sorry about your loss. The first holidays, actually, the first EVERYTHINGS will be really hard on you. Been there, done that. All i can say is that it will get easier with time. My heart goes out to you this year. Neil, i can understand your rant and rave, but couldja possibly narrow it down to specific persons? Or perhaps use the word 'extremist' which is a tad more accurate, than using an entire religion? Just a suggestion...since i don't think you know ALL the people that you are ranting about. Other than that, i quite agree with you. Hippocracy, regardless of flavour, is distasteful in the extreme.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Cancelled
From: Roger in Sheffield
Date: 02 Dec 00 - 05:19 AM

I find myself in agreement with Irish sergeants comments, terrible things are done in God's name without his(/her/their) consent. If only Holy sites could be independant of ownership by any one state or religion, and open to all who wish to visit peacefully

Roger

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Cancelled
From: Lanfranc
Date: 02 Dec 00 - 07:41 PM

I believe that the most famous recent proposal that Christmas be cancelled was by Alan Rickman in the guise of the Sheriff of Nottingham - always got a good laugh in our household!

I'd second the proposal, but I rather like carols, and a bit of feasting and drinking must be Ok, because it predates any monotheistic religion as a way of cheering up the dismal winter solstice period.

However, I could survive quite happily without the commercial aspects, and, as I scribble my signature on the umpteenth Christmas Card, I sing the old Paddy Roberts song to myself.

"This Christmas Card racket will cost you a packet, each season it seems to expand. The cards are so clever, but nothing whatever to do with the season in hand."

As to Palestine, "I bring you not peace, but a sword" - now who said that, I wonder?

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Cancelled
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Dec 00 - 07:52 PM

"it is very likely that even if we don't like the winner - half of the US will, no matter who wins!"

Would that be the half that didn't vote for anyone? Doesn't seem too likely...

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Cancelled
From: Gypsy
Date: 02 Dec 00 - 10:46 PM

Ya know, you can have Christmas celebrations that don't cost a penny. Meditation, prayer, thankfulness. Being with those you love. Helping those who are in need. By necessity, our celebrations have always had a very low monetary value. But a very high spiritual one

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas Cancelled
From: CamiSu
Date: 02 Dec 00 - 11:16 PM

Oh Ella, that says you need Christmas more than ever! Please remember that even if the particular people aren't with you, their love is, always.

And Neil, I agree with your assessment, and also that that is NOT Christianity, or Islam, or Judiasm, Or what have you. Those who commit these atrocities only use religion as their excuse. I think the commandment says "Thou shalt NOT kill" I don't see any if, ands, or buts.

So let's not cancel our midwinter celebrations, but welcome love in wherever we find it. (Whenever, too!)

Happy holidays! All of them!

CamiSu