Lyr Add: Ben Bolt

Subject: Ben Bolt
From: GUEST,Sarah
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 01:12 PM

Cruising the Digitrad, I noticed this missing from the end of "Ben Bolt":

There is change in the things I loved, Ben Bolt,
They have changed from the old to the new;
But I feel in the depths of my spirit the truth --
There was never a change in you.
Twelve months twenty times have passed, Ben Bolt,
Since first we were friends, yet I hail
Thy presence a blessing, thy friendship a truth,
Ben Bolt of the salt sea gale;
Thy presence a blessing, they friendship a truth,
Ben Bolt of the salt sea gale.

(Also, according to the copy I have, the last two lines should be repeated at the end of each verse, as above.)

Sarah

Subject: Lyr Add: THERE'S A CHANGE IN THE THINGS I LOVE^^
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 04:55 PM

Hi, Sarah - where'd you get the extra verse? It adds a nice conclusion to the song.

My 1909 copy of Songs That Never Grow Old has three verses, and has a slightly different (and politically corrected?) third verse:

And don't you remember the school, Ben Bolt
With the master so kind and so true
And the shaded nook by the running brook
Where the fairest wildflowers grew

The The Lester S. Levy Collection of Sheet Music (click) has a song published in 1844 by Joseph P. Webster (with a tune different from the 1848 Nelson Kneass tune we know). Webster called the song "There's a Change in the Things I Love." Webster does not repeat the last two lines of each verse. Here is his version:

THERE'S A CHANGE IN THE THINGS I LOVE (Ben Bolt)
(Joseph P. Webster)

Oh don't you remember sweet Alice, Ben Bolt
Sweet Alice with hair so brown
Who wept with delight when you gave her a smile
And trembled with fear at your frown
In the old church yard of the Abbey, Ben Bolt
In a corner obscure and alone
They have fitted a slab of the granite so gray
And Alice lies under the stone

Oh don't you remember the wood, Ben Bolt
That grew on the green, sunny hill
Where oft we have played 'neath its wide, spreading shade
And listened to Appleton's mill
The mill has gone to decay, Ben Bolt
And the rafters have fallen in
And a quiet has settled on all around
In the place of the olden din

And don't you remember the school, Ben Bolt
With the master so cruel and grim
And the quiet nook and the running brook
Where the school boys went to swim
Grass grows on the master's grave, Ben Bolt
And the running brook is dry
And of all the boys who were schoolmates then
There is only you and I

There's a change in the things I love, Ben Bolt,
A change from the old to the new;
But I feel in the core of my heart, Ben Bolt
There never was change in you.
Twelve months twenty times have passed, Ben Bolt,
But still with delight I hail
Thy presence a blessing, thy friendship a truth,
Ben Bolt of the salt sea gale.

^^

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Ben Bolt
From: GUEST,Sarah
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 05:10 PM

It's from a copy of one of me mum's songbooks, The One Hundred and One Best Songs, published by the Cable Company of Chicago; they made (make?) pianos. This particular copy is a 1922 edition and cost her 10 cents, postage included. It lists one Thomas Dunn English along with Nelson Kneass, so perhaps he wrote the additional verse. The copyright is 1911.

Sorry, should've included all that before.

Sarah

Subject: Lyr/Tune Add: GRAVE OF BEN BOLT
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 06:59 PM

Hi, Sarah - The extra verse is in the 1840 version, but your exact wording is in a version attribute to T. Dunn English in 1850. Now, here's the 1853 sequel - you can see why this one isn't sung nowadays.
-Joe Offer-

---

GRAVE OF BEN BOLT
(Sydney Dyer & I.B. Woodbury)

By the side of sweet Alice they have laid Ben Bolt,
Where often he longed to repose,
For there he would kneel with the early spring flowers,
And plant o'er his darling the rose.
His heart was as true as the star to his gaze,
When tossed on the billows alone,
But now it is cold and forever at rest,
For he calmly lies under the stone.

How often his eyes were seen brimming with tears,
To mingle with others in grief;
But joy would rekindle the light of his smile,
When pouring the balm of relief.
At last he has gone to the bright spirit land
And free from all sorrow and pain,
He tastes the full raptures of angels above,
For he meets with sweet Alice again!

We'll gather the flowers from the green shady nook,
And moss from the silent old mill.
To strew o'er the graves where obscurely repose
The hearts that death only can chill.
And oft, when the soul has grown weary and sad,
We'll come by the twilight alone
To muse o'er the spot where together Ben Bolt
And sweet Alice lie under the stone.

(words: Sydney Dyer, music: I.B. Woodbury, 1853)

---

MIDI file: BENBOL3.MID

Timebase: 192

Name: GRAVE OF BEN BOLT
Text: By Sydney Dyer (words) & I.B. Woodbury (music)
Copyright: Copyright © 1853
Tempo: 090 (666666 microsec/crotchet)
Key: Ab
TimeSig: 2/4 24 8
Start
0288 1 63 110 0046 0 63 000 0002 1 63 110 0046 0 63 000 0002 1 63 110 0160 0 63 000 0032 1 65 110 0094 0 65 000 0002 1 67 110 0094 0 67 000 0002 1 68 110 0094 0 68 000 0002 1 68 110 0094 0 68 000 0002 1 67 110 0094 0 67 000 0002 1 68 110 0094 0 68 000 0002 1 70 110 0160 0 70 000 0032 1 70 110 0096 0 70 000 0000 1 72 110 0094 0 72 000 0002 1 68 110 0256 0 68 000 0032 1 72 110 0094 0 72 000 0002 1 73 110 0160 0 73 000 0032 1 72 110 0094 0 72 000 0002 1 70 110 0094 0 70 000 0002 1 72 110 0160 0 72 000 0032 1 70 110 0094 0 70 000 0002 1 68 110 0094 0 68 000 0002 1 70 110 0256 0 70 000 0032 1 63 110 0094 0 63 000 0002 1 63 110 0160 0 63 000 0032 1 65 110 0094 0 65 000 0002 1 67 110 0094 0 67 000 0002 1 68 110 0160 0 68 000 0032 1 67 110 0094 0 67 000 0002 1 68 110 0094 0 68 000 0002 1 70 110 0160 0 70 000 0032 1 70 110 0094 0 70 000 0002 1 72 110 0094 0 72 000 0002 1 68 110 0256 0 68 000 0032 1 72 110 0094 0 72 000 0002 1 73 110 0160 0 73 000 0032 1 75 110 0094 0 75 000 0002 1 77 110 0096 0 77 000 0000 1 72 110 0022 0 72 000 0002 1 72 110 0166 0 72 000 0002 1 72 110 0142 0 72 000 0002 1 70 110 0046 0 70 000 0002 1 68 110 0640 0 68 000 0032 1 68 110 0094 0 68 000 0002 1 70 110 0160 0 70 000 0032 1 67 110 0048 0 67 000 0000 1 65 110 0046 0 65 000 0002 1 63 110 0094 0 63 000 0002 1 68 110 0160 0 68 000 0032 1 72 110 0094 0 72 000 0002 1 75 110 0094 0 75 000 0002 1 70 110 0160 0 70 000 0032 1 67 110 0048 0 67 000 0000 1 65 110 0046 0 65 000 0002 1 63 110 0094 0 63 000 0002 1 68 110 0256 0 68 000 0032 1 72 110 0094 0 72 000 0002 1 72 110 0160 0 72 000 0032 1 72 110 0142 0 72 000 0002 1 70 110 0046 0 70 000 0002 1 68 110 0094 0 68 000 0002 1 68 110 0094 0 68 000 0002 1 70 110 0160 0 70 000 0032 1 72 110 0160 0 72 000 0128 1 72 110 0094 0 72 000 0002 1 73 110 0144 0 73 000 0000 1 72 110 0046 0 72 000 0002 1 70 110 0094 0 70 000 0002 1 73 110 0094 0 73 000 0002 1 72 110 0144 0 72 000 0000 1 70 110 0046 0 70 000 0002 1 68 110 0094 0 68 000 0002 1 72 110 0094 0 72 000 0002 1 70 110 0144 0 70 000 0000 1 68 110 0046 0 68 000 0002 1 67 110 0094 0 67 000 0002 1 70 110 0094 0 70 000 0002 1 68 110 0256 0 68 000 0032 1 72 110 0046 0 72 000 0002 1 72 110 0046 0 72 000 0002 1 73 110 0160 0 73 000 0032 1 75 110 0094 0 75 000 0002 1 77 110 0096 0 77 000 0000 1 72 110 0022 0 72 000 0002 1 72 110 0166 0 72 000 0002 1 72 110 0142 0 72 000 0002 1 70 110 0046 0 70 000 0002 1 68 110 0256 0 68 000
End

This program is worth the effort of learning it.

To download the March 10 MIDItext 98 software and get instructions on how to use it click here

ABC format:

X:1
T:GRAVE OF BEN BOLT
M:2/4
Q:1/4=90
K:Ab
E7E|E4F2G2|A2A2G2A2|B4B2c2|A6c2|d4c2B2|c4B2A2|
B6E2|E4F2G2|A4G2A2|B4B2c2|A6c2|d4e2f2|c/2c7/2c3B|
A8|-A6A2|B4GFE2|A4c2e2|B4GFE2|A6c2|c4c3B|
A2A2B4|c6c2|d3cB2d2|c3BA2c2|B3AG2B2|A6cc|
d4e2f2|c/2c7/2c3B|A11/2||

The ABC portion of the MIDITXT output didn't come out quite right.
Tune also sent to Alan for inclusion in Mudcat MIDIs.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Ben Bolt
From: GUEST,Sarah
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 07:12 PM

Joe,

'Scuse me while I copy and paste that onto my Song CD -- I happen to love a dirge, and will drag it out as long as possible.

Sarah

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Ben Bolt
From: Alice
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 07:15 PM

Thanks, Sarah and Joe for both songs in the same thread.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Ben Bolt
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 08:06 PM

OK, here's the tune to go with the 1840 text. There are other tunes at Levy, but I think that's enough.
-Joe Offer-

---

MIDI file: BENBOL2.MID

Timebase: 192

Name: There's A Change in the Things I Love (Ben Bolt)

Text: By Joseph P. Webster, 1840

Key: A

TimeSig: 4/4 24 8

Start

0576 1 64 110 0160 0 64 000 0032 1 69 110 0160 0 69 000 0032 1 69 110 0094 0 69 000 0002 1 73 110 0094 0 73 000 0002 1 71 110 0160 0 71 000 0032 1 76 110 0094 0 76 000 0002 1 76 110 0094 0 76 000 0002 1 73 110 0096 0 73 000 0000 1 69 110 0094 0 69 000 0002 1 69 110 0094 0 69 000 0002 1 69 110 0094 0 69 000 0002 1 69 110 0160 0 69 000 0032 1 73 110 0096 0 73 000 0000 1 69 110 0094 0 69 000 0002 1 71 110 0160 0 71 000 0032 1 71 110 0094 0 71 000 0002 1 73 110 0094 0 73 000 0002 1 74 110 0160 0 74 000 0032 1 76 110 0096 0 76 000 0000 1 78 110 0094 0 78 000 0002 1 76 110 0528 0 76 000 0048 1 76 110 0096 0 76 000 0000 1 78 110 0094 0 78 000 0002 1 76 110 0160 0 76 000 0032 1 74 110 0094 0 74 000 0002 1 71 110 0094 0 71 000 0002 1 69 110 0160 0 69 000 0032 1 73 110 0094 0 73 000 0002 1 73 110 0094 0 73 000 0002 1 71 110 0160 0 71 000 0032 1 69 110 0094 0 69 000 0002 1 66 110 0094 0 66 000 0002 1 64 110 0160 0 64 000 0032 1 64 110 0160 0 64 000 0032 1 69 110 0160 0 69 000 0032 1 73 110 0094 0 73 000 0002 1 76 110 0094 0 76 000 0002 1 71 110 0160 0 71 000 0032 1 73 110 0094 0 73 000 0002 1 71 110 0094 0 71 000 0002 1 69 110 0528 0 69 000 0816 1 74 110 0094 0 74 000 0002 1 73 110 0094 0 73 000 0002 1 71 110 0160 0 71 000 0032 1 71 110 0096 0 71 000 0000 1 73 110 0094 0 73 000 0002 1 74 110 0160 0 74 000 0032 1 76 110 0094 0 76 000 0002 1 78 110 0094 0 78 000 0002 1 76 110 0160 0 76 000 0032 1 73 110 0094 0 73 000 0002 1 71 110 0094 0 71 000 0002 1 69 110 0160 0 69 000 0032 1 73 110 0094 0 73 000 0002 1 69 110 0094 0 69 000 0002 1 71 110 0160 0 71 000 0032 1 71 110 0094 0 71 000 0002 1 73 110 0094 0 73 000 0002 1 74 110 0160 0 74 000 0032 1 76 110 0094 0 76 000 0002 1 78 110 0094 0 78 000 0002 1 76 110 0528 0 76 000 0048 1 76 110 0094 0 76 000 0002 1 78 110 0094 0 78 000 0002 1 76 110 0160 0 76 000 0032 1 76 110 0094 0 76 000 0002 1 74 110 0094 0 74 000 0002 1 69 110 0160 0 69 000 0032 1 73 110 0094 0 73 000 0002 1 73 110 0094 0 73 000 0002 1 71 110 0160 0 71 000 0032 1 69 110 0094 0 69 000 0002 1 66 110 0094 0 66 000 0002 1 64 110 0160 0 64 000 0032 1 64 110 0160 0 64 000 0032 1 69 110 0160 0 69 000 0032 1 73 110 0094 0 73 000 0002 1 76 110 0094 0 76 000 0002 1 71 110 0160 0 71 000 0032 1 73 110 0094 0 73 000 0002 1 71 110 0094 0 71 000 0002 1 69 110 0528 0 69 000

End

This program is worth the effort of learning it.

To download the March 10 MIDItext 98 software and get instructions on how to use it click here

ABC format:

X:1

T:There's A Change in the Things I Love (Ben Bolt)

M:4/4

Q:1/4=120

K:A

E8|A2AcB2ee|cAAAA2cA|B2Bcd2ef|e6ef|e2dBA2cc|

B2AFE2E2|A2ceB2cB|A8|-A6dc|B2Bcd2ef|e2cBA2cA|

B2Bcd2ef|e6ef|e2edA2cc|B2AFE2E2|A2ceB2cB|

A11/2||

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Ben Bolt
From: raredance
Date: 07 Jan 01 - 01:52 AM

Thomas Dunn English (1819-1902)was from Philadelphia. He had degrees in medicine and law, wrote plays, articles and verse, was the editor of several journals, and was even a two term member of the US Congress. He fancied himself mostly a writer, but his reputation was more that of an amateur. His friend Edgar Allen Poe once mocked him in an article, which led English to accuse Poe of plagiarism. Poe, in turn, sued for libel and won. English's literary "fame" rests almost entirely upon the poem "Ben Bolt" which he wrote for "The New Mirror" a weekly newspaper in New YOrk. the paper was edited by Nathaniel P Willis and George P Morris (author of "Woodman, Spare That Tree). "Ben Bolt" was first published in the Sept. 2, 1843 issue of the paper.

A number of songwriters set "Ben Bolt" to music, but the only really popular version was that by Nelson Kneass, who wrote his in Pittsburg in 1848. Kneass was a singer and minstrel show entertainer. Some later critics have suggested that Kneass may have adapted another tune, possibly a German tune. One critic, William Hunt, said that Kneass was rather unmusical and "the art of creative composition was almost an impossibility." Kneass also had some reported ethical lapses. In 1848, the same year he set "Ben Bolt" to music he attempted to register and copyright as his own the Stephen Foster song "Away Down South". He was stymied when Stephen Foster's brother showed up at the Pittsburg registrar's office to register the song for his brother. As a singer Kneass participated in the first public performance of "Away Down South" before it was published. A year earlier he had also sung the pre-published version of Foster's "Oh Susanna. Kneass is credited with publication of other songs, so whether or not he borrowed a tune, or parts of a tune for "Ben Bolt", it is his version that became popular.

"Ben Bolt" got a second jolt of popularity when it was used in the best selling novel by George Du Maurier, "Trilby" published in 1994. A year later Paul Potter wrote a stage version of "Trilby" in which the heroine sings "Ben Bolt". Both the novel and the play were so successful in America, that S Brainard's Sons Co. of Chicago issued "Ben Bolt, the Trilby Edition" in 1895 with a two color title page with a drawing of the heroine singer. Revivals of the play in the 20th century kept the song alive and it has appeared in movies. Vivien Leigh sang bits of "Ben Bolt" in "Gone With The Wind."

This information is condensed from "Popular Songs of Nineteenth Century America" by Richard Jackson.

rich r

rich r

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Ben Bolt
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 Jan 01 - 04:25 AM

Gee, that's good, Rich. It answers a lot of questions, but I'm still not 100% convinced the lyrics came from English - what about the 1844 Joseph Webster publication?


Trilbywas published in 1894, right?



I still can't figure out how such a wonderful music library can be assembled by somebody in Fargo, of all places.... [grin]

Thanks, Rich.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Ben Bolt
From: Sarah2
Date: 07 Jan 01 - 12:07 PM

Good work, Rich. Thanks. (And there are lonelier places than Fargo, Joe -- at least for folkies. Thank God for the internet!)

Sarah

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Ben Bolt
From: raredance
Date: 07 Jan 01 - 01:29 PM

Joe, 1894 for Trilby is right, you know I can't type ( or proofread very well on a computer screen). The 1844 Webster version cited above is from sheet music and postdates English's publication of the poem. As Jackson said, there were quite a few song versions of "Ben Bolt". My guess is that Webster was either the tunesmith or the music publisher, or both (I know it's in Levy, but my computer doesn't have the resolution to read the Levy sheets). Sheet music publishers were not above ripping off popular lyrics without proper credit. That still leaves some loose ends although I probably favor Jackson's conclusions. At least he seems to have researched some of the older literature and documents. The "Songs that Never Die" version you cite above lists the words by English, but gives 1839 for the date versus the 1843 newspaper publication date given by Jackson. Again, given a choice, I would favor Jackson's date because popular song books of any era are not well known for research. The sheet music with the Kneass tune that is reproduced in Jackson's book may be the same as at the Levy site, because Jackson got some of his material from Levy. The title page has:
Ben Bolt or Oh! Don't You Remember, Ballad, sung by Miss Clara Bruce, compsed by Nelson Kneass; (louisville) W.C. Peters & Co.- Peters, Field & Co. (Cincinnati).

On the first page of the music it has:
Ben Bolt, or Ah! (not Oh) Don't You Remember. As sung by J H McCann.

At the bottom of the page it says it was entered in the year 1843 in the Clerk's office in Kentucky. Jackson says Kneass' music was from 1848.

There are also some lyric differences in versions, as was already discussed above. Webster has a cruel & grimschool master, Kneass has a kind & true one. The Webster version, the Kneass (from Jackson) version and the one in "songs That Never Grow Old" all have different words in the second verse; and Webster has a fourth verse not in the other two. Webster could also be taking credit for his rewrite and additions without acknowledging the original. Does the word plagiarism fit here.

Joe, You didn't tell me you ran out and rounded up a copy of "Songs That Never Grow Old" :-} Don't you love the picture gallery in the front?

Sarah - You can't get way with generalities like that. You've got to name your folk-deprived places, if you want me to seriouslyconsider them :-)

rich r

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Ben Bolt
From: Sarah2
Date: 07 Jan 01 - 01:43 PM

Rich,

Amarillo, Texas, U.S. of A., bigawd. Don't ask how I landed here: It's a long, sad story...

I'm curious about English now and need to go find out more about him, mostly because I have some letters written to my great-great-grandfather, c. 1850s, from one Thomas English. 'Course, there were doubtless more than one by that name, but such things make one wonder...

Sarah

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Ben Bolt
From: Peter T.
Date: 07 Jan 01 - 05:44 PM

I can attest to "Ben Bolt" in Trilby, as I was once Little Billy in a production, and had to listen to it every night!!!! Trilby sings it beautifully "under the spell" and then, at the climactic moment, tries to sing it and breaks down as the hypnotism wears off. Our director read us (I think) a very funny piece from James Thurber where he argues that Alice must be some kind of bizarre neurasthenic woman, weeping with delight at a smile, etc.

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Ben Bolt
From: Sarah2
Date: 07 Jan 01 - 09:43 PM

Either that, or Ben had one great smile.

Sarah

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Ben Bolt
From: Joe Offer
Date: 08 Jan 01 - 01:40 AM

You know, I've been wondering what "our" Alice thinks of this discussion of this song about her namesake mouldering in the grave. The "bizarre neurasthenic woman" comment could spark an interesting discussion, too...
Sarah, if you live in Amarillo too long, you may also end up a "bizarre neurasthenic woman." [grin] I once interviewed a clinical psychologist who had moved here to California from Amarillo -She told me all about the high incidence of depression in Amarillo. Keep smilin'.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Ben Bolt
From: Sarah2
Date: 08 Jan 01 - 10:29 PM

Joe,

I'm really just here to finish up the studies for my thesis on BNWs -- they seem to be fairly thick on the ground here.

And I do get out of town, now and then. Way, way out of town.

Doubt I could ever become a BNW by living in Big A, though -- I don't much care for the males they breed here...

Sarah