Lyr Add: New Chorus-Dead Dog Scrumpy

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: New Chorus-Dead Dog Scrumpy
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Apr 18 - 10:44 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOegHC40viY has a recording of Trevor Crozier singing "Dead Dog Scrumpy", presumably from the "Trouble Over Bridgewater" album in 1977, though it lacks the album's spoken introduction (where he says that originally he wanted to call the song "The Scrumpy Drinkers Farewell to his Gut", but that "The BBC wouldn't like that, especially on Women's Hour". The posting by "Stewie" on 3rd March 2004 at 9.06 pm has the correct lyrics, except that in the final verse Crozier sings "Ask for Dead Dog Scrumpy" rather than "Ask for Dead Dog Cider".

It is a sad coincidence that both Trevor Crozier and Adge Cutler of the Wurzels (another West Country, or perhaps I should say "Scrumpy and Western", band) died in car accidents. Crozier died in Malawi in 1995 (see http://www.scrumpyandwestern.co.uk/trevorcrozier.php) and Cutler died at Chepstow in 1974 (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adge_Cutler).

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: New Chorus-Dead Dog Scrumpy
From: Charley Noble
Date: 13 Jan 10 - 08:49 AM

refresh for comparison to other Scrumpy thread.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: New Chorus-Dead Dog Scrumpy
From: wildlone
Date: 05 May 05 - 02:21 PM

The Yetties version has a chorus,

Dead dog scrumpy, dead dog scrumpy,
From the apple tree.
Dead dog scrumpy, dead dog scrumpy,
Full of pedigree.

dave

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: New Chorus-Dead Dog Scrumpy
From: Charley Noble
Date: 05 May 05 - 02:05 PM

Here's a MP3 link to my Appalachian version of this cider song, including the chorus I composed a few years back: Dead Dog Cider

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: New Chorus-Dead Dog Scrumpy
From: Charley Noble
Date: 05 Mar 04 - 10:23 AM

Hille-

Thanks for the additional information. If you speak with Trevor's aunty, could you reconfirm Margaret's current mailing address and PM it to me. Roll & Go will be recording this song in a month or two and I'd like to initiate the release agreement with her.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: New Chorus-Dead Dog Scrumpy
From: Nemesis
Date: 05 Mar 04 - 04:33 AM

Sheldon is Kevin Sheldon .. he was a friend of Trev's .. a producer at Decca records. Trevor worked for them as an A&R man .. not sure what period that was.

I met Trevor in, um 1977 when he lived in Worthing and met Kevin on a trip to LOndon together on some mission .. perhaps just to see Kevin I'm not sure, I was only 17! (anyway we were met at the door with the greeting "Me f*cking wife's just left me", and then I think we all proceeded to get very, very drunk.)

CHARLEY ... RE. Malawi human rights isn't so bad as Zimbabwe .. the tribal based politics is not a feature of life - having been rigorously repressed by Dr Kamuzu Banda. Of course the poverty is grinding and has got worse since democratic elections for reasons to long-winded to go into on this thread. I have no idea how Margaret copes, but I gather from a mutual friend who was called to the hospital after Trevor had been hit by the car (but in fact was already dead when Martin got there), that people see to that she's "okay". Although a Malawian version of "okay" is far different from what we perceive "okay" as. I'll give Trevor's aunty a ring and see what she knows/ has heard.

Hille

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: New Chorus-Dead Dog Scrumpy
From: Stewie
Date: 04 Mar 04 - 05:33 PM

Charley

I don't know who 'Sheldon' is, but he is credited as co-author also of several other pieces on the album: 'If the Piddlethentride jug band hits the charts', 'Humours of Earl's Court', 'A pub with no beards' and 'Don't tell I, tell 'ee'. Adge Cutler and the Wurzels had a successful single with 'Don't tell I ...'.

--Stewie.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: New Chorus-Dead Dog Scrumpy
From: Charley Noble
Date: 04 Mar 04 - 08:52 AM

Thanks so much, Stewie. It's the first time I've seen the 3rd verse. Oh, but who is Sheldon?

If Roll & Go ever records this song we'll make a good faith effort to do the proper credits and send a royalty check to his family in Malawi.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: Lyr Add: DEAD DOG SCRUMPY (Crozier - Sheldon)
From: Stewie
Date: 03 Mar 04 - 09:06 PM

Charley

Here is a transcription from a live performance by Crozier. He introduces it as 'one of my own little songs'. The record sleeve credits 'Crozier/Sheldon' copyright 'Cinephonic Music Co. Ltd'. There is no chorus.


DEAD DOG SCRUMPY
(Crozier- Sheldon)

In the year of sixteen forty-two in a little cider mill,
A poor old dog lay down to rest 'cos he were feeling ill
He chose a most precarious perch above the apple press
And in his sleep he tumbled in and he perished in distress.

Which caused his master for to grieve, likewise his mistress too
Until their sorrows to relieve, they sampled of the brew
'Odzoons', cried Farmer Atwater, 'the like I ne'er did sup
Go summon all the neighbors in, and bid them take a cup'

So the neighbours came from far and near, the parson and the squire
The blacksmith and the gamekeeper and daft old [Obediah ?]
They wished the farmer health and wealth and the parson played his fife
And the squire he filled three flagons up for to take home to his wife

Now every man that drank that night got drunk as drunk could be
And wondered how the scrumpy had acquired such potency
The farmer kept his counsel as he took another drop,
When suddenly the poor old dog come a-floating to the top

Now a silence fell upon the room, and every man did frown,
They recognised old Bendigo though he were upside down;
The parson changed his colour and collapsed upon the floor,
And the squire he lost his britches in the fight to reach the door

'Fear not', shouts Farmer Atwater, 'for in all his life I vow,
He never bit nor man nor child and he'll not bite no one now
And this shall be his epitaph, 'Here lies poor faithful Ben
Who perished in the scrumpy vat and quickly rose again

So if you're down to Devon, and you goes into a bar,
Ask for Dead Dog Cider, it's the best there is by far;
Refuse all imitations and you'll sleep like a log,
You can always recognise it by the hair of the dog

Source: trancription from Trevor Crozier and Friends 'Trouble Over Bridgwater: Recorded 'Live' at Poynton Folk Centre' EMI One Up LP OU 2185 [1977].

--Stewie.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: New Chorus-Dead Dog Scrumpy
From: Charley Noble
Date: 02 Mar 04 - 11:34 PM

Malawi is almost as bad as Zimbabwe in terms of human rights/poverty.

Could someone please post Crozier's words so we could see from what this song has been processed from. The song's a keeper and I'm convinced that most people who hear it think that it's "traditional." Well, it will be!

And if there is a chorus, other than Tattie's or mine, please post it.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: New Chorus-Dead Dog Scrumpy
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Mar 04 - 09:20 PM

I also have this song on an LP by the late Trevor Crozier called "Trouble over Bridgewater" which long predates the Macdonalds version of 1998. There are a number of fairly minor differences in the words but these are mainly of little consequence, except that I think it might be "1842" rather than "1849". It is certainly a good tune and since it is about cider I suppose it is a good pub song also.

In a spoken introduction to the song, Crozier states that he "originally wanted to call it "The Cider (or Scrumpy) Drinkers Farewell to his gut", but that "The BBC wouldn't like that, especially on Women's Hour!" Actually Dead Dog Scrumpy sounds even less genteel than the original to my ears.

Sorry to hear Trevors wife and son are in straitened circumstances in Malawi, though I suppose they would be worse off in Zimbabwe.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: New Chorus-Dead Dog Scrumpy
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 02 Mar 04 - 08:33 PM

Did it tonight in my home village pub session of the month: pint of far-too-clear Strongbow in my hand. Everyone knew the words from Iain Mackintosh's recording of it, but naebody kent aething aboot choruses!

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: New Chorus-Dead Dog Scrumpy
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 01 Mar 04 - 08:19 PM

I sang it at Sidmouth last year as I knew it: got the words and tune off Mudcat, and only afterwards someone told me there was a chorus! But not what it was, so I made up my own:
"Poor dog, Silly old dog, he drownded in the cider vat"
C'....G... E-E    E   C    C D-D       D-D   G G C
(C' means octave above) Don't do it after every verse or it breaks up the narrative too much!

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: New Chorus-Dead Dog Scrumpy
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 01 Mar 04 - 06:50 PM

Tony Day recollects different versions sung by himself, Seal and Les Hyde - but hasn't supplied any words...

Kitty

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: New Chorus-Dead Dog Scrumpy
From: Big Jim from Jackson
Date: 29 Feb 04 - 04:52 PM

I was fortunate enough a couple of years ago to find an album by Trevor Crozier that had him singing the song. Loads of fun. David Para (the duo of Cathy Barton and Dave Para) sings a very nice version of the song, too.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: New Chorus-Dead Dog Scrumpy
From: Charley Noble
Date: 29 Feb 04 - 11:06 AM

I'd heard rumors of Trevor Crozier's famous song years before I actually heard it sung in a smokey back room gathering at a Bristol (UK) tavern (White Horse Tavern?) back in 1997. Our old friend Chez Watts of Bristol led us in and we stumbled around until an arm reached out to help us find seating. We then listened as one shadowy figure after another led a song. I led some Southern Appalacian ballads in turn and then asked "Did anyone know the song "Dead Dog Scrumpy?" Silence fell around the room but it was too dark to determine if there were frowns or smiles, and then someone led this ballad of death and resurrection. Somewhere, we still have the tape that I used to transcribe the words. There wasn't a chorus, as I recall, but it did need one. Folks last night at our concert seemed quite appreciative.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: New Chorus-Dead Dog Scrumpy
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 28 Feb 04 - 03:20 PM

Charley

The chorus sung last weekend started "Dead dog scrumpy, dead dog scrumpy..." I'd better check back with the Middle Bar singers for the rest of it!


Kitty

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: New Chorus-Dead Dog Scrumpy
From: Charley Noble
Date: 28 Feb 04 - 12:20 PM

Kitty-

There is an old chorus? I'd be interested if you could come up with the words. We'll be singing our version of the song this evening at a concert, complete with stuffed Bendigo.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: New Chorus-Dead Dog Scrumpy
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 28 Feb 04 - 12:08 PM

It was sung, with the old chorus, during the Anchor Middle Bar reunion in Sidmouth last weekend..

Kitty

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: New Chorus-Dead Dog Scrumpy
From: Charley Noble
Date: 27 Feb 04 - 04:52 PM

If anyone is interested in how I've musically adapted this song and how the new chorus works, you can access a MP3 file on my personal website:Click Here!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble, formerly known as Roll & Go-C

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: New Chorus-Dead Dog Scrumpy
From: GUEST,Roll&Go-C
Date: 14 Feb 01 - 12:03 PM

Hille, thanks!
Our group does like to do the right things with the songs we borrow.

Concerns about how people modify the songs that individuals create will also continue. We've very fond of our new chorus but I'm sure not everyone will be pleased. The only really test is, of course, if someone years from now is still singing a version of it.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: New Chorus-Dead Dog Scrumpy
From: Nemesis
Date: 13 Feb 01 - 02:07 PM

Guest Roll&Go

Re. Trevor's widow's address - well, you know data protection 'n' all that. Email me before this link disappears and I will speak to mutual friends on your behalf.

Regards, Hille [e-mail]

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: New Chorus-Dead Dog Scrumpy
From: GUEST,Roll&Go-C
Date: 13 Feb 01 - 11:47 AM

Need more practice with blue clicky; Roll&Go's website is:www.rollandgoseasongs.com

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: New Chorus-Dead Dog Scrumpy
From: GUEST,Roll&Go-C
Date: 13 Feb 01 - 11:40 AM

Hi Barb, I noticed a comment by you from Harmony the other day. You can reach me at [e-mail]

I wrote the chorus, with encouragement from other members of Roll& Go: check website:click here

Cheerily, Charlie

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: New Chorus-Dead Dog Scrumpy
From: Barbara
Date: 13 Feb 01 - 10:38 AM

And give my regards to Charlie, and tell him to check in at Mudcat and say hi to me, Blessings Barbara, who knows him from when we went to Michigan State together,and who has many fond memories of him and his stories and songs and his family place on Robinhood Cove.
How much of this one did Charlie write, and have you ever heard his towns of Michigan song?
Blessings,
Barbara

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: New Chorus-Dead Dog Scrumpy
From: GUEST,Roll&Go-C
Date: 13 Feb 01 - 08:55 AM

Susanne and Hille,

Thanks for confirming who wrote the original song, which tallies with what our old friend and member Chez Watts, from Bristol, remembers. I would appreciate any address information with regard to contacting his widow.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: New Chorus-Dead Dog Scrumpy
From: Nemesis
Date: 13 Feb 01 - 08:02 AM

This was definitely written by Trev. If you want to use, i.e., royalties, then be aware he has a widow Margaret and small son Ciaran living in impoverished circumstances in Malawi, Africa

Best wishes,

Hille Cook (friend of Trev's since 1977)

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: New Chorus-Dead Dog Scrumpy
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 12 Feb 01 - 06:50 PM

Maybe it's worth pointing out that according to postings on uk.music.folk last year this song was written by the late Trevor Crozier.

Subject: New Chorus-Dead Dog Scrumpy
From: GUEST,Roll&Go-C
Date: 12 Feb 01 - 01:06 PM

DEAD DOG CIDER(SCRUMPY)

After the singing of Norman & Betty MacDonald Bristol-Birmingham, UK
Tune: Bonnie Scotsman/Eight More Miles to Louisville
New chorus by Charlie Ipcar 1998

In eighteen hundred and forty-nine, in a little cider mill,
A poor old dog lay down to rest, for he was feeling ill;
He chose a most precarious perch, above the apple press,
And– in his sleep he tumbled in and perished in distress.

This caused his master for to grieve, likewise his mistress too,
And so their sorrows to relieve, they sampled of the brew;
"Gadzooks," cried Farmer Afwater, "the likes I ne'r did sup;
Let's summon all the neighbors in, and bid them take a cup."

Now, here's to Dead Dog Cid-er, the best there is by far;
Here's to Dead Dog Cid-er, no moaning at the bar;
You can search this wide world over, find many a beer or ale;
But when you've tried Dead Dog Cider – your search will be curtailed!

Now everyone that drank that night got drunk as drunk could be,
And wondered how the scrumpy had acquired such potency;
The farmer kept his council, as he took another drop,
When all at once that poor old dog came floating to the top.

A silence fell around the room, and everyone did frown,
For they recognized old Bendigo though he was upside down;
The parson lost his collar and collapsed upon the floor,
And the squire split his britches in the rush to reach the door...

"Oh, halt," cried Farmer Afwater, "for in his life I vow,
He never bit man nor beast, nor will he bite ye now;
And this shall be his epitaph, 'Here lies old faithful Ben
Who perished in the cider vat, only to rise again.'"*

So if you're down in Devon, and you stops off at a bar,
Just call for Dead Dog Cider, it's the best there is by far;
Refuse all imitations and you'll sleep just like a log,
You can always recognize it by – the hair of the dog...

* Sometimes we'll digress at this point to do a chorus of May Faithful Bendigo, Rise Again!

The "curtailed" line is of course inspired by the old mariner's joke about why the Dog Watches are called Dog Watches – because they are not the regular 4-hour watches, you see,they are curtailed...