Folklore: Beltane in Glastonbury

Subject: Beltane in Glastonbury
From: Maryrrf
Date: 13 Feb 01 - 09:15 AM

I will be in the London area around the beginning of May. It occurred to me that it might be an adventure to spend May 1st, the ancient pagan festival of Beltane in Glastonbury. Has anybody ever done this? Anybody know a nice, comfortable inexpensive place to stay there? All advice/comments welcome! I know, it's not on the way to Girvan, Scotland which is my final destination but it might be workable!

Subject: RE: BS: Beltane in Glastonbury
From: Mountain Dog
Date: 13 Feb 01 - 10:14 AM

Dear Maryrrf,

I know there's a Youth Hostel in the center of Glastonbury; check with the Youth Hostel Association online for info. Oh, and don't be put off by the "youth" designation - most YHA places will put up 'oldsters' as well as youngsters, based on availability...which brings us to the next point:

Glastonbury is very much worth a visit, but as it is a mecca for many a pagan and neo-pagan, Beltane might be one of those times you'll find it hard to come across lodging, affordable or otherwise. Calling ahead to the local Tourist Information office from London would be a great idea.

If you do get to that part of the UK - and a lovely part it is - try to take in the City of Wells, as well. It's "the Smallest City in England" ('city' in this case being defined as a population center with its own cathedral) and a charming place. The Bishop's Garden, home to the 'wells' or natural springs which give the city its name, is particularly beautiful and inspiring.

Again, Glastonbury is worth your time, but you may want to closing consider your timing this time...

Have a wonderful trip, in any event. And enjoy Scotland, another favorite place of ours!

Subject: RE: BS: Beltane in Glastonbury
From: Maryrrf
Date: 13 Feb 01 - 10:34 AM

I figured it would be crowded but I think being in the midst of all the pagans, neo pagans, druids, wiccans, etc. (I'm a free thinker, myself) would be pretty intruiging. Thanks for the advice!

Subject: RE: BS: Beltane in Glastonbury
From: wes.w
Date: 13 Feb 01 - 11:06 AM

You don't say how you are travelling, but there are lots of pubs and houses doing B&B (bed and breakfast) within car travelling distance. Rail/bus travel is sparse within this area, especially at weekends, but:
" cum'ee on down 'nd zee, me zonner!"
..wes (10 miles from Glastonbury)

Subject: RE: BS: Beltane in Glastonbury
From: Maryrrf
Date: 13 Feb 01 - 11:17 AM

I probably will have to rely on public transportation. But I found a bus line (National)that leaves from London and goes to Glastonbury, changing in Bristol. You can book the tickets in advance over the net! Only problem is I think I'll be lugging a guitar around.

Subject: RE: BS: Beltane in Glastonbury
From: Morticia
Date: 13 Feb 01 - 11:34 AM

We spend Beltane in Hastings at the Jack in the Green Festival....if Glastonbury doean't pan out , you might want a fall back plan......it does however mean you are further away rather than closer to Scotland....PM me for more details if interested.

Subject: RE: BS: Beltane in Glastonbury
From: Morticia
Date: 13 Feb 01 - 11:36 AM

you might find this interesting Jack in the Green

Subject: RE: BS: Beltane in Glastonbury
From: sledge
Date: 13 Feb 01 - 11:56 AM

I feel the urge to go to Hastings come May.

Sledge

Subject: RE: BS: Beltane in Glastonbury
From: Morticia
Date: 13 Feb 01 - 12:16 PM

And you would be most welcome :)

Subject: RE: BS: Beltane in Glastonbury
From: GUEST,JohnB
Date: 13 Feb 01 - 12:25 PM

I always like Beltaine it out whenever I sing. JohnB

Subject: RE: BS: Beltane in Glastonbury
From: Maryrrf
Date: 13 Feb 01 - 12:42 PM

Hastings looks interesting but it would be taking me pretty far afield!

Subject: RE: BS: Beltane in Glastonbury
From: wes.w
Date: 14 Feb 01 - 09:02 AM

Maryrff...
I've left a message on your personal page with my phone numbers in case you need them for any reason in Glastonbury!

Subject: RE: BS: Beltane in Glastonbury
From: Micca
Date: 14 Feb 01 - 10:52 AM

To get a flavour of Hastings there are some pics here Click here and if you want info PM me or Morty,, it is a good w/e lots of music and morris dancing and Beer and stuff..

Subject: RE: BS: Beltane in Glastonbury
From: Maryrrf
Date: 14 Feb 01 - 02:56 PM

Thank you, Wes! That is very kind!

Subject: RE: BS: Beltane in Glastonbury
From: wysiwyg
Date: 14 Feb 01 - 07:13 PM

Hello everyone.

Most of you know I am an active, practicing Christian. Threads like this used to bother me, but I came into this thread to say that I deeply appreciate the diversity of the Mudcat, whatever wrangles there may be around here from time to time that seem to suggest there is an intrinsic problem at the Mudcat with differences. That attitude does not come from me, and I would hope to find friends here who respect diversity, as well.

There are going to be people who will feel that this thread is a form of "proselytization" (as people have said of some threads I have been visible in), but I won't be one of them.

I know some have had a lot of grief over these diversity issues, and I did not come in here to cause any; I think it's when we don't talk about this stuff that things get mixed up into upsets. I really just wanted to say I value you all, as people with whom I share so much.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Beltane in Glastonbury
From: Maryrrf
Date: 14 Feb 01 - 08:56 PM

Sorry, didn't mean to offend anyone with the reference to Beltane which is admittedly a pagan festival. Certainly Glastonbury is a holy place for Christians, as well. It's the site of the oldest above ground church and associated with the Holy Grail and Joseph of Arimathea. Maybe I should have called that thread "May Day in Glastonbury".

Subject: RE: BS: Beltane in Glastonbury
From: wysiwyg
Date: 14 Feb 01 - 09:51 PM

????

Offense? None expressed, unless I missed something?

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Beltane in Glastonbury
From: wes.w
Date: 15 Feb 01 - 09:02 AM

Maryrff.. Feel free to phone if you need to. You may have found a long distance bus to get there, but you will be marooned there without a car. Local busses usually run only during the daytime, every two hours as a guide, and not at all on Sundays. So pre-booking somewhere to stay within walking distance is a good idea, although hitching is possible but not reliable. I'd suggest you visit the Tor, the Well, the Rural Life Museum and the Abbey, if you have time, and also try our cider (small quantities recommended at first) - ask for 'Farmhouse' in the smaller, scruffier pubs for the real thing (if you're lucky), plus proper Cheddar cheese (again 'Farmhouse' and 'Rinded') and Lardy Cake.
Oh, and feast your ears on a local accent if you hear one (still quite common, though losing strength and depth of accent) - this is how 'folk' song used to sound when it was collected by Cecil Sharp 100 years ago.

Subject: RE: BS: Beltane in Glastonbury
From: Maryrrf
Date: 15 Feb 01 - 09:47 AM

I am investigating now and to see if I can find something right in the middle of town. Definitely the Tor and the Abbey are top on my list! Thanks for the advice.

Subject: RE: BS: Beltane in Glastonbury
From: Morticia
Date: 15 Feb 01 - 12:35 PM

Susan, regarding: "There are going to be people who will feel that this thread is a form of "proselytization" (as people have said of some threads I have been visible in), but I won't be one of them." With all due respect a question was answered without reference to religion, but simply the name of a festival or two.It was not information that was foisted upon this forum but in response to a question.I would be extremely surprised if any feel the need to comment on it in anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Beltane in Glastonbury
From: Maryrrf
Date: 16 Feb 01 - 10:54 AM

All set, got a booking at the Backpacker's Hostel which seems to be right in the midst of things. I don't suppose anyone knows of a place that has sessions there?

Subject: RE: BS: Beltane in Glastonbury
From: Peg
Date: 21 Feb 01 - 01:04 AM

dunno about sessiuns, but there was a folksinger type of guy performing at the King Arthur inn (townie pub down a side street off the main high street; the street with the music shop if that is any help) when I was there in June. He did not really sing any traditionalk soings moistly okd rock and roll standards; but still fun. I sang harmony with him on a couple which he seemed to enjoy. :)

Subject: RE: BS: Beltane in Glastonbury
From: Hawker
Date: 21 Feb 01 - 02:42 AM

Hi, I too am a practising Christian, but it doesn't mean that you can't enjoy the experience of others beliefs ! I see Paganism as being the early roots of Christianity - after all a lot of the Church festivals are centered round the Old Pagan Celebrations! Myself and our local vicar have been looking at this recently with my after school Folk & Traditions group. If you want to visit a FANTASTIC Pagan ritual, Go to Padstow on Mayday... It is wonderful - and there is trad singing in most of the pubs all day and night!!!! Well worth a visit if you've not been. Have a great time wherever you are - and whatever you believe! Lucy

Subject: RE: BS: Beltane in Glastonbury
From: Maryrrf
Date: 21 Feb 01 - 12:53 PM

Where is Padstow??? Yes, that's my attitude about religion. There are many paths to God and some may feel more drawn to the pre christian ways. That sounds like a wonderful vicar you have !!!

Subject: RE: BS: Beltane in Glastonbury
From: Hawker
Date: 21 Feb 01 - 04:03 PM

He is BRILLIANT!! Likes Trad music and beer tooo though I have NEVER seen him the worse for wear! Padstow is in Cornwall, England. Lucy

Subject: RE: BS: Beltane in Glastonbury
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 21 Feb 01 - 04:57 PM

If you get there, you can snip me a cutting of the Christmas Thorn. I've always wanted to grow a daughter of this beautiful tree, which blossoms at Christmastime and grows in the Abbey at Glastonbury. It is reputed to have grown from the staff of St Joseph of Arimithea, a keen hiker.

Subject: RE: BS: Beltane in Glastonbury
From: Peg
Date: 21 Feb 01 - 05:42 PM

think for a moment; what if lots more people just like you asked for cuttings from the Glastonbury Thorn tree? there would not be much of a tree left after, oh, fifty or so people did this.

one reason monuments and ancient stones etc. need protection is because people think nothing of chipping off a bit of one of the rocks of Stonehenge, or hacking off a hunk of one of the Rollright Stones, for a souvenir. Over time, great damage has been done by this sort of activity...

What is wrong with enjoying something without destroying it?

As the Ancient Sacred Landscapes Network says: "Don't change the site; Let the site change you."

Just a thought, not meant to be an attack.

Subject: RE: BS: Beltane in Glastonbury
From: Maryrrf
Date: 21 Feb 01 - 07:52 PM

Well, I would love to go to Cornwall because I wanted to visit Tintagel, as well. Don't think I'll make it on this trip.

Subject: RE: BS: Beltane in Glastonbury
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 22 Feb 01 - 05:05 PM

Obviously not a gardener, Peg! That's how trees are spread - you take a cutting and grow it, then give six of your friends cuttings from it; then they give six of their friends cuttings - and so on. Soon the tree has a million daughters.

Subject: RE: BS: Beltane in Glastonbury
From: Peg
Date: 23 Feb 01 - 01:05 AM

actually I am a gardener and I do know how cuttings work...my point was to look closely at the idea that a bunch of tourists would swarm upon this poor tree all with the same idea: to obtain a cutting. If such a thing happened the tree would be reduced to bare twigs in a twinkling.

Subject: RE: BS: Beltane in Glastonbury
From: Maryrrf
Date: 23 Feb 01 - 09:22 AM

Don't worry - I won't take any cuttings from the thorn tree! You're not supposed to take that kind of things through customs and I will be schlepping a guitar and luggage from Glastonbury to London to Scotland to Birmingham and back to London via public transportation. I don't think I can handle anything else!

Subject: RE: BS: Beltane in Glastonbury
From: Peg
Date: 23 Feb 01 - 10:20 AM

too right! I got busted with some little nutshells and things I picked up on my travels...fortunately they did not get any of the other illegal stuff I was carrying on my person!

Subject: RE: BS: Beltane in Glastonbury
From: katlaughing
Date: 24 Feb 01 - 02:37 PM

I thought I remembered my brother sending away for a small cutting of this Thorn tree, in the 60's, so I went looking for more information. I rememeber being in awe when he told me the history and connection to the little cutting her got in the mail.

According to one article I found, there are only two cutting that were allowed, ever, one is planted in a castel garden owned by the Queen and another is planted in Washington, D.C.

Then I found this one and thought it interesting enought to post:

Glastonbury's Christmas Tree.(Brief Article) Author/s: Geoffrey Humphrys Issue: Dec, 1998

Until Recently, the Glastonbury Holy Thorn, famous for its Christmas blossom, stood in front of St John the Baptist's Church in the centre of the Somerset town. times the vicar of Glastonbury had sent blossoms to the Queen at Christmas time. But it was pronounced dead in June 1991, and tree surgeons cut down the tree the following February.

Many have tried to grow the Glastonbury Holy Thorn, Crataegus monogyna var, biflora, from seed and direct cuttings, but in recent years all attempts have reverted to the normal hawthorn type, flowering only in spring.

The large tree had been in the churchyard for eighty years. It was planted by Mr George Chislett, then head gardener of Glastonbury Abbey. He also learned how to graft Holy Thorn cuttings onto the root of blackthorn stock, and so preserve the `miraculous' Christmas blossoming characteristic. His son, Wilf, sent Holy Thorns all over the world, including to Washington, Canada, New Zealand and Australia.

Luckily, trees survive from earlier graftings to perpetuate the Glastonbury legend, among them two other Holy Thorns in the grounds of St John's. In recent years, the blossom sent to the Queen has come from one of these. The old custom of sending blooms to the monarch had been stopped by Charles I, but was revived in 1922 when Queen Mary agreed to receive a sample each time the Holy Thorn lived up to its reputation.

The tradition began when Thomas Cromwell, chief adviser to Henry VIII, sent a Dr Layton to Glastonbury in 1535 to investigate rumours concerning the tree. The doctor sent back to London `two flowers wrapped in black sarsnet, that in Christmass Mass, at the very hour Christ was born, will spring and burgeon and bear blossoms'.

The legend of the Holy Thorn concerns Joseph of Arimathea who cut a staff from the same tree the Roman soldiers used to make the mocking crown of thorns they placed on Christ's head. Later, Joseph led a party of merchants on a tour of tin mines in Somerset. He carried the staff, and when his party climbed a grassy hill on the Isle of Avalon, Joseph is said to have stopped, stuck the staff in the ground and sat down to rest saying, `We are weary all'. When they moved off, Joseph inadvertently left the staff in the ground, where it took root and eventually grew into the original Glastonbury Holy Thorn.

Today, the hill lying in the shadow of Glastonbury Tor bears the name Wearyall Hill, although this is more likely to derive from `Wiral' or `Wyral', a place name appearing on many old maps.

The earliest reference to the Holy Thorn appears in a thirteenth-century history of Glastonbury Abbey, but this does not mention the miraculous Christmas blooming. Dr Layton's letter is the first recorded mention of this, alter which the fame of the Glastonbury Thorn gradually spread, attracting pilgrims and becoming part of English folklore.

At Glastonbury, the tree was watched carefully every Christmas to see if the blossom appeared. After it had grown two trunks, a local superstition warned against `cutting the Holy Thorn on Christmas Eve when you hear the buds cracking, or you will receive a curse'. Apparently this stemmed from the fate that befell a fanatic who had chopped down one of the trunks during the reign of Elizabeth I. But when the man tried to chop the second trunk, `thorns flew into his eyes and blinded him'.

COPYRIGHT 1998 History Today Ltd.

COPYRIGHT 2000 Gale Group

Subject: RE: BS: Beltane in Glastonbury
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 24 Feb 01 - 04:00 PM

Very interesting, kat. Blackthorn is, of course, poisonous when it's in blossom, and is known to blind people who cut their eye when the sap is running - most probably why it's considered unlucky to bring the blossom indoors.

So there are cuttings around the world? Now all I need to do is to find someone who got one from Mr Chislett.

Thank you very much for posting this.

Subject: RE: BS: Beltane in Glastonbury
From: katlaughing
Date: 24 Feb 01 - 04:17 PM

Sure, JTT, I am just sorry my brother wasn't able to keep his little cutting going. He doesn't fail at much when it comes to green things, but it was the high, dry climate of Colorado desert and even with a humidifier it just didn't flourish...now he knows so much more he might be able to do it.

Glad you enjoyed it.

Thanks,

kat