If you like Nic Jones you'll like Damien Barber

Subject: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: Doctor John
Date: 15 Feb 01 - 04:18 PM

...Damien Barber, a young singer/ guitar, concertina player we first heard at the Dartmoor Folk festival a couple of years ago. I've just found a CD of his - "The Furrowed Field". Highly recommended: this is the stuff. www.jacana.demon.co.uk/djc
Dr John

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Feb 01 - 04:23 PM

Appearing at Nellie's in Beverley, march 12th ; website www.soft.net.uk/10sg/nellies.htm

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 15 Feb 01 - 04:50 PM

He's slept in the back seat of our car!!! He also had a nasty shock a year or two back when he nearly lost 2 of his fingers.... playing better than ever though and a real sweetie if you catch him right....

LTS

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: Big Tim
Date: 15 Feb 01 - 05:04 PM

Bob Dylan.

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: Zebedee
Date: 15 Feb 01 - 05:07 PM

Damien Barber is a lovely guy, and I like his music a lot.

Quite what his music has to to, or is even remotely similar, to Nic Jones's eludes me....

Ed

unless you just mean that it's 'folk'

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 15 Feb 01 - 05:10 PM

They've both been involved in nasty accidents?? Although Damien was a darned sight luckier than Nic.....

LTS

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: Doctor John
Date: 15 Feb 01 - 05:12 PM

Big Tim, no, No, NO! You don't blow down that old dusty road in a Cadillac with electricity and all that. Try Woody Guthrie.
Ed. Listen to Nic Jones again. I mean it's direct unadorned, uncluttered ; proper folk music. No choirs, orchestras, keyboards etc etc. If you can play it on street corners, bars, unions meetings, it's folk music. Dr John

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 15 Feb 01 - 07:02 PM

I only know one song by Damien Barber, on the excellent CD of English a-cappella songs, 'Voices'. It's enough to tempt me to buy his new CD the next time I get to Britain. (I'll wait till the Euro has recovered a bit further, though ...)

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: wes.w
Date: 16 Feb 01 - 10:03 AM

Tony Rose ?

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: MartinRyan
Date: 16 Feb 01 - 10:27 AM

Tony Rose!

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: Les from Hull
Date: 16 Feb 01 - 10:58 AM

Roger Wilson?

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 16 Feb 01 - 12:04 PM

Suzanne--You don't have to go to England to buy English CDs---CAMSCO has them, and generally charges less than you'd pay in the UK.

BTW: Tony Rose has a new one--Bare Bones-- and it's a ine recording.Call Camsco at 800/548-FOLK (3655)

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: Les from Hull
Date: 16 Feb 01 - 12:53 PM

Suzanne - Don't buy CDs in shops in the UK if you can avoid it. We pay through the eyes, ears, nose and throat for them. Current full price CDs are nearly seventeen pounds, convert that to your currency and add on their air fare and that'll do permanent damage to your bank balance. Buying direct from the artist at a concert is acceptable though.

Hope you enjoy Damien's stuff. He's an excellent musician and a good mate.

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: Doctor John
Date: 16 Feb 01 - 02:39 PM

Yes...Tony Rose; excellent new CD having ,rerecorded a lot of material from his old Trailer LP's...which that guy won't release. Dr John

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 16 Feb 01 - 08:54 PM

Dick - being in Germany I doubt it would make much difference whether I bought from the UK or from the States. Both are incredibly expensive for us just now.

Les - I know, but where'd I catch him? I only get to Britain once a year, usually to Scotland, and I haven't heard anything about Damien touring Germany.

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: Tweedie
Date: 20 Mar 01 - 04:43 PM

Bob Bray does the singing and Jon Scaife plays guitar. Together they are similar to Nic Jones. They have, I think, only collaborated on 2 cassette albums. See www.sarcon.demon.co.uk/engfolk/21/bob_bray_jon_scaife.htm

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From:
Date: 20 Mar 01 - 06:10 PM

Dan McKinnon does a song of his, I believe. Dan McKinnon

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: Mr Red
Date: 21 Mar 01 - 12:17 PM

Bob Bray lives in Stroud, Jon Scaife in Leicester (ish) I don't remember seeing them together recently. CD's are probably the best way to hear them together, Jon is duoing with a lass who is well known but I can't remember her name.

Bob runs a singers (mostly singers) night at the Golden Fleece in Nelson St Stoud 1st Tuesday (& 3rd in winter).

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: GUEST,Dita (at work)
Date: 21 Mar 01 - 12:34 PM

Chris Foster?

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 21 Mar 01 - 12:35 PM

Jon Scaife lives in Sheffield, and can be contacted via the  Bash Street Dance Band

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: GUEST,willie-o
Date: 21 Mar 01 - 03:12 PM

Martyn Wyndham-Reed.

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: GeorgeH
Date: 22 Mar 01 - 11:46 AM

Kate Rusby . . (especially live rather than on her CDs which - IMO and certainly by comparison with Nic - tend to be over-arranged)

OK, not an obvious one, but at least one of her tracks (Lakes of Ponterchian?? and yes I know I can't spell) is derived - indirectly - from Nic.

Which reminds me of our last visit to Ely folk club . . a good floor singer performed a song which he attributed correctly to Nic. Then another fine performance which he attributed to Martin Simpson - but which Martin had actually got from Nic.

Anyway, to go back to the questions - the Martins, Simpson and Carthy (in that order of liklihood) would be my recommendations . . especially if you catch Simpson doing an evening of largely English Traditional stuff . .

G.

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: GUEST,Ian
Date: 28 Jan 03 - 09:29 PM

The Eagles. Poco. Jackson Browne. Seriously. Nic's style of singing a little behind the beat was influenced by the West Coast rock of the 70s. This is what gives Nic's recordings such a easy-on-the-ear sound. Nic, somewhere, I think the Living Tradition interview, mentioned that he admirred this style of music. A lot of folk and rock fans dismiss this music too easily. I did too at one time (I'm an ageing punk rocker, afterall) but now I can appreciate South Coast rock for it's strengths, which are to highlight the melodies and the harmonies. Ofcourse, it may be that I am just getting old.

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: GUEST,Ian
Date: 28 Jan 03 - 09:49 PM

Incidentally, and out of sheer curiosity, what does Nic listen to on his CD player? I knew he use to like Dylan, Randy Newman, and reggae. I would love to spend a day just browsing through his record/CD collection. I'm that sort of person.

I read somewhere that he no longer likes tradional folk music. Can this be true? This, from a past master of the genre!

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: DG&D Dave
Date: 29 Jan 03 - 04:36 AM

Pete Castle?

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Jan 03 - 08:53 AM

Nic Dow - Who post here occasionaly and presents the folk programme on Radio Lancashire. I am hard put to tell the difference between the two Nicks at times:-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: GUEST,LesB
Date: 29 Jan 03 - 01:40 PM

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: GUEST,LesB
Date: 29 Jan 03 - 01:48 PM

Chris Foster, who is on at the
Bothy in Southport this Sunday, 2nd Feb. He is very underated, also see the last edition of Living Tradition for a good feature on him.
Cheer
Les(Sorry hit enter by mistake before)

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 10:51 PM

Hey. Everyone keeps mentining 3rd rate mediocraties. WHo the hell cares about these people

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: Stewie
Date: 01 Feb 03 - 05:57 AM

Guest,

I, for one, have derived a great deal of pleasure from artists such as Chris Foster, Nic Dow, Martyn Wyndham-Read et alia and they are far from '3rd rate'. If you do wish to brandish big words such as 'mediocrities' at least take the trouble to ascertain the correct spelling.

--Stewie.

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: Les from Hull
Date: 01 Feb 03 - 10:13 AM

Guest - to answer your question as to 'who the hell cares..' look above each posting and you'll see the Mudcat name of the person who cares.

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Feb 03 - 02:09 PM

The guest who wrote about 3rd rate mediocrities has a point. If you like Nic Jones, you will like Martin Carthy, Dick Gaughan, Bert Jansch, and all the other greats with whom Nic belongs. All these obscure names maybe fine enough but to compare them to Nic, which is in effect what you are doing, is deeply insulting to the reputation of Nic. It's like saying...If you like Kenny Ball, you will like Miles Davis. I don't think so.

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: Les from Hull
Date: 04 Feb 03 - 03:22 PM

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Feb 03 - 05:26 PM

If you like Nic Jones, you will like Martin Carthy, Dick Gaughan, Bert Jansch

Sorry, Guest of 02:09pm who is simply Guest of 10:51pm pretending to be someone else in support of a ridiculously inflamatory argument, you are talking out of your arse. To simply mention the above four in the same breath shows that your level of musical appreciation is slightly below that of the common slug. You know nothing of the real world. You would not know a good folk musician if one crapped on you from a great height and it is about time you stopped hiding behind your anonimity and got out to some events where you would meet real grown up people.

You have the social skills of an a very anti-social rhino with PMT. You're mother bred you in the gutter where she eked out a megre living selling her favours to baboons and you are the ugliest being ever to breath. It is no wonder the midwife wanted push you back and then drown all people concerned.

You would not know how to troll or flame to save your life. What is more, because you are a back stabbing, ignorant, demented piece of used toilet paper who chooses to remain anonymous anyone can have a go at you and cannot disprove a thing!

Cheers and happy whinging. I am sure you will endevour to make some feeble response that I can have another good laugh at;-)

Ahhhh. Glad I found one. A good rant is far better than valium in my estimation!

Dave the Gnome

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: Dave Wynn
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 09:10 AM

Ere Dave......I really enjoyed that...can you do one for me.

Spot

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 05:16 PM

Spot, if you were any uglier your wife would have married me instead. Not that it matters. You don't have a clue what is going on at home while you are down in Guilford...;-)

DtG

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: GUEST,Ian
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 09:28 PM

Dave the gnome: If I like Nic Jones, I can't be that bad, can I? There, I have printed my slug like name. By the way, I was born in Orpington, like Nic. I hope that lifts me up in your eyes. Oh yes, and my original argument still stands!

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: Les from Hull
Date: 06 Feb 03 - 02:37 PM

Ian - it's nice to see a slug come out of its shell! No, that can't be right!

It might help the debate if you say who Nic Jones' fans might like or why you don't agree with other people's suggestions.

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: GUEST,Ian
Date: 06 Feb 03 - 03:15 PM

Les, the reason I don't agree with other people's suggestion is because most of the names mentioned are on the second rung in Pantheon of folk music. I don't know who the hell Kate Rusby is. She is probably a fine performer, but is that any reason to mention her in the same breath as Nic Jones. Is that all Nic is: a fine performer?
By the way, I got my quote the wrong way round. It should have read: If you like Miles Davis, you will like Kenny Ball. So...if you like Nic Jones you will like Kate Rusby? Again, I don't think so.

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: GUEST,Ian
Date: 08 Feb 03 - 08:17 PM

Dave the Gnome. I await your devastating retort....or is your silence passive agreement?

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: Deni-C
Date: 09 Feb 03 - 09:43 AM

Think of it like this...

If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....a whole list of other performers


But if you hero-worship Nic Jones, you won't think anyone else comes up to scratch.

D

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Feb 03 - 06:02 PM

Not worth wasting an ounce of my brain power on you Ian, if that is indeed your name. If you would like a devastating retort try heating one over a bunsen burner until it explodes. Perhaps the shards of glass may improve your looks and attitude:-)

If you do not know who Kate Rusby is perhaps you had better go and stick your head back up the arse of the incontinent bear that has been filling your brains with shit for the last few years. Anyone who believes that only a handful of performers are good is not even worth thinking about.

What is more your mention of both Davies and Ball shows an unhealthy knowledge of Jazz. As we all know Jazz is unrelated to any form of good music. With its pretence to be artistic it is indeed the musical equivalent of wanking. Only giving pleasure to the perpetrator.

So, there we have it, a man stuck in the past, preoccupied with what he believes is an elitist group of artists and a lover of the individual pleasures! It's no wonder that such blinkered, philistine, pig-ignorance comes from the keyboard of this non-creative garbage.

I have spoken. I shall not deign to converse with one so lowly again...

Cheers

Dave the Gnome
(With thanks to the Monty Python team for one of the above insults and to the writer of The Commitments for another. The rest I believe are my own work:-) )

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: sharyn
Date: 09 Feb 03 - 07:35 PM

Chris Smither. Great voice, Great guitar work, Great sense of humor, some good songwriting, sensitive arrangements for the most part. Does for American blues what Nic Jones did for English folk music.

And, for the record, I also like Kate Rusby, except when she gets a little out there in her songwriting: she's best when she stays close to traditionnal material. Also, her cover of Iris DeMent's "Our Town" is exceptionally good.

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: GUEST,Ian
Date: 10 Feb 03 - 04:23 PM

Oh come on. I didn't say that only a few performers were good. I said only a few were great. Nic came out of the golden age of folk music in the 60s and 70s and gave some old folk songs the definitive version. Imagine someone equalling Nic's version of Canidee-i-o or Little Pot Stove. It's unlikely to happen and if it does then they will get a wider audience than the smug clique that cluster around the dreary and fading remains of the once innovative and exciting folk clubs. Come on, you know I'm telling the truth. Why else set up this site? Why else would it get such a good response. I ask you: name me one modern folk artist who matches the beauty of Nic's playing? I doubt if you can.

As for jazz being a form of musical mastrubation, well, it very often is; but at its best, when the musicians take the audience with them -'trane, Monk, Mingus, Louis, Dolphy,-it matches the very best. A matter of opinion.

As for you sharyn, that is some claim. The blues has been done to perfection by the likes of Skip James, Blind Blake, Charlie Patton and Tommy Johnson. These are the names you bandy about with Nic Jones, not some Johnny-come-lately white boy who mimics the originals. I might be wrong.... but I bet I ain't. Ain't one white boy done it yet and I doubt if Chris Smither is any different.

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Feb 03 - 10:40 PM

Ian,

I stand by what I said. Nic Jones was a revival singer, not a tradition-bearer. So is Chris Smither. You would be wise to listen to him a good long while before you dismiss him. He knows his stuff and he grew up in blues territory. I believe he matches Jones for talent and also for the way he makes it possible to hear songs freshly. Thinking that white people can't sing the blues is a fairly narrow view.

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 04:37 AM

*BG*

OK OK - You win. I will converse once more after all! You can be just as inflamatory as me then, Ian. Hats off to you.

You are nowhere near as subtle and sophisticated though;-)

If I am down in Orpington or you are up in Manchester we should get in touch. I will buy you a pint (Not saying what I will put in it though...)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: Schantieman
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 05:37 AM

Dave - can I borrow you to insult some of the boys I 'teach', please?


S

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: GUEST,Yes
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 07:25 AM

Oh Come on chaps..
Don't kiss and make up just yet.It was just getting interesting.
Come out fighting the pair of youse!
(Best thread I've read in years)

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 08:38 AM

All jazz , Opera and Ballet would have been better left undiscovered. Shrieking opera singers in falsetto voices and Ballet dancers who can't even walk without looking disgraceful(ungraceful?...Disgraceful fits better). Jazz players (can't call them musicians) competing to fit uneven number of notes into tunes with odd numbers of bars and mixing scales like some demented tosser to produce bad cacophony.

It's what capital punishment was created for.

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: GUEST,Yes
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 12:25 PM

Now, This is more like it !
Jazz."Fire in a Pet Shop" Music
Any more bigots want to join in?

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: GUEST,Ian
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 04:35 PM

Does this mean I win the argument, Dave the Gnome? Or is this just a truce. I would be glad to see you in the Buff Orpington (Homeplace of Nic, therefore holy - Orpington, not the Buff Orpington, which is a pub.) I apologise for my lack of sophistication. I try my humble best though.

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 09:25 AM

Definitely not a win Ian. A truce would certainly be nearer the mark. An agreement to disagree is probably the right term! Work on the sophisticated insults and you will get tehre evntualy;-)

And don't get me started on Ballet, Guest. Mind you I must admit I like to watch it on the radio...

My idea of hell would be an opera singer squawking jazz noises with some demented tart prancing up and down in what is laughingly called modern dance! Makes even bagpipes sound inviting...

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: GUEST,Ian
Date: 13 Feb 03 - 06:27 AM

Guest 10th Feb 03. I have been listening to the blues for a quarter of a century. The British blues boom of the early 60s is amost unlistanble now. The original artists, however - Tommy Johnson right through to Muddy Waters - have a timeless quality. Will we be listening to Chris Smither in 50 years time? ofcourse, for those of us who cannot take our blues pure, maybe these white carbon copies serve a purpose.

Guest, yes. I found your remark about jazz sounding like a fire in a pet shop priceless. I assume you have listened to Ornette Coleman?

Anyone thinking that this thread has deviated from its original subject, I would like to say that Tommy Johnson's name is mentioned and as a guitarist he is as fascinating as Nic. So if you like Nic..... you will like Tommy Johnson.

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: Pied Piper
Date: 13 Feb 03 - 07:56 AM

Oo, oo.
Can I join in.
If you want to here how jazz arrangements can fuck up a good trad tune click Here, scroll down to the tunes in Blue and click on Rakes Of Mallow.

PP

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: Dave Wynn
Date: 13 Feb 03 - 08:55 AM

I didn't believe it. But it's there. I have just listened to Rakes and been damaged forever just knowing that a human person could produce such an arrangement.

We just got to bring in capital punishment.

Spot.

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: GUEST,Ian
Date: 13 Feb 03 - 09:06 AM

On the other hand, you could do worse than check out "Africa/Brass" by the John Coltrane Quartet and listen to their version of Greensleves. It's very beautiful, better even than Vaughan Williams' version. Let us not also forget the classic recording "Folk Roots, New Routes" by Shirley Collins and Davy Graham. I'm not much of a fan of Shirley Collins. Her voice is too precious by half, but she did participate in some important recordings, including this one. Traditional songs, for the most part, are given jazz influenced arrangements by guitarist Davy Graham. It works and works well. Davy was at home in the blues, in jazz and in folk. Check out The Complete Guitarist on Kicking Mule and listen to a master of the insturment.

Jazz can be good sometimes....honest. Oh yeah, and to keep the thread consistant, if you like Nic Jones, you'll like....Davy Graham. Or maybe, if you like Nic Jones, you'll like...the John Coltrane Quartet.

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: Les from Hull
Date: 13 Feb 03 - 11:44 AM

Ian - true what you say about the British Blues Boom and the original American artists. But I would like to say that the best female blues voice I ever heard was Jo-Ann Kelly. And a pretty good arranger and guitarist too.

So if the 'original' folk recordings brought us Nic and his singing, arrangements and guitar playing, would you allow Jo-Ann a place in the stars?

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: GUEST,Ian
Date: 13 Feb 03 - 05:41 PM

Les,I know Jo Ann Kelly's name but, sadly, I don't know the music, so I can't say. However, I see your point. Just because something has been recorded before - and Nic only recorded tried and trusted traditional songs - doesn't mean it can't be done in a fresh way. My only experiance with white blues has been negative and that has coloured my opinion. The good thing about the blues boom of the early 60s was that it developed into rock music, heavily influenced by the blues, but not blues. Eric Clapton got far closer to the essence of the blues when he sang Layla than when he re-recorded Crossroads. The blues also influenced 60s UK folk music in a way I don't quite understand:open-tuning,I think. Also Nic's singing, which was a little behind the beat, was influenced by West Coast rock music. So if you like Nic Jones you'll like....West Coast rock music of the 70s.

See how I always bring these digresions back to the main theme. Incidently, I have reviewed Penguin Eggs on Amazon, so if y'all want to pop in and give me a positive vote (or a negative one if you think I am talking shit), feel free.

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: sharyn
Date: 13 Feb 03 - 09:44 PM

Once again, Guest Ian, you really ought to give Chris Smither a good long listen before you blow him off. He has mastered the guitar styles of Mississippi John Hurt and several others. He has energy. He has taste. He has deadpan humor. He has a great voice and he is absolutely steeped in traditional blues repertory. It doesn't sound like you are willing to listen to him at all, but I shall be listening to him until I have no further hearing. I'm sure you will regard this as heresy -- I like Nic Jones just fine and like listening to him, but I don't think he is God.

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: GUEST,Ian
Date: 14 Feb 03 - 05:43 AM

"He has mastered the guitar styles of Mississippi John Hurt and several others"

So why not listen to Mississippi John Hurt and the several others? Sorry to sound pendantic but the great blues artists sounded like noone except themselves, which is why they sound so great 70 years after they made their recordings. Nic Jones doesn't sound like Martin Carthy, he is distinctly Nic. Nor do I thik he is God. I merely think he is the greatest performer that English folk music has ever produced.

After saying all that, I went to Amazon to check on Chris Smither. There are quite a few people who fully agree with you. I can't play the musical samples because, for some reason, my PC wont accept the download, which sucks, so I still don't really know what he sounds like. Sharyn, you have me intrigued.

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: Stewie
Date: 14 Feb 03 - 09:36 AM

Nic Jones was good, but so too is Smither. He is a first-rate singer, guitarist and songwriter. Do yourself a favour: stop pissing around with trying to get musical samples, buy his 'Live As I'll Ever Be' CD and judge for yourself before dismissing him. Smither is not a blues artist - he is predominantly a singer/songwriter - but when he chooses to interpret a blues song, he does so with consummate artistry. And Smither sounds like Smither.

--Stewie.

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: sharyn
Date: 14 Feb 03 - 10:20 PM

Hey, Stewie, I disagree with you. I think Chris Smither is primarily an interpreter of songs, with a heavy emphasis on traditional blues, but including songs by Dylan, Poco, Roly Salley, etc. He does write, but he is much too good to label a "singer-songwriter," the kiss of death in my book (and by the way I sing and write songs, too, but I had far rather be labelled a singer than a singer/songwriter -- you can just use the "writer" word if you want, separate from the "singer" word). Many so-called singer-songwriters can't write their way out of a paper bag.

And, Guest Ian, Stewie's recommendation is a good place to start with
Chris Smither. I'm curious: what do you think of Richard Thompson, another gifted guitarist and interpreter of traditional music -- he hasn't recorded a lot of it that I know of, but he does sing things like "Bogie's Bonnie Belle" in concert.

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: Stewie
Date: 15 Feb 03 - 01:14 AM

Hi Sharon,

If you prefer, he is a writer who sings his own songs. I can judge his live performances only from his 2 live albums, the latest of which has 11 out of 13 Smither songs. During his entire recording career, there is only one album - 'It ain't easy' - that has more covers than Smither originals:

'Live as I'll ever be'          11 out of 13 are Smither songs
'Drive you home again'          7 out of 11 are Smither songs
'Small Revelations'             8 out of 11 are Smither songs
'Up on the lowdown'             6 out of 10 are Smither songs
'Happier blue'                  6 out of 12 are Smither songs
'Another way to find you'       10 out of 18 are Smither songs
'It ain't easy'                4 out of 14 are Smither songs
'Don't it drag on'             6 out of 11 are Smither songs
'I'm a stranger too'            7 out of 11 are Smither songs

I think it is fair enough to say that he is predominantly a writer who sings his own songs, at least in respect of recordings.

I am not sure what you mean by 'traditional blues'. But, if you mean recordings of songs by people like Skip James, Willie McTell etc, Smither has recorded a total of 6 in his entire recording career - a couple more if you count Chuck Berry as blues, which I don't. I wouldn't say that was a 'heavy emphasis' on blues. But, I don't know how he structures his live performances - maybe these have a 'heavy emphasis' on blues but, if so, that is not reflected in his choices for his latest live compilation 'Live as I'll ever be'.

--Stewie.

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: Stewie
Date: 15 Feb 03 - 02:24 AM

Sharyn, my apologies for misspelling your name in my previous posting.

--Stewie.

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Feb 03 - 06:56 AM

Sharyn,

"Many so-called singer-songwriters can't write their way out of a paper bag."

Oh go on, name names.

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: GUEST,LesB
Date: 15 Feb 03 - 12:30 PM

Hi, I am perplexed as to where this thread is going. Nic Jones was a great interpreter of, primarily, Traditional songs. With a very English feel about him. Chris Smither, I am given to understand, is a singer / songwriter & interpreter of contemporary songs with an American feel. I fail to see any comparisons.

Cheers
Les

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: sharyn
Date: 15 Feb 03 - 02:51 PM

Les, "The Blues" is a traditional American folk form (also found in West Africa and other places) and Chris Smither is a master interpreter of this form. I initially drew the comparison because I think Chris Smither has made blues accessible through his performances in the same way that Nic Jones made some English traditional music accessible: they are both talented singers and guitarists, easy to listen to.

Guest, no need to name names: get thee down to thy local open mic populated by singer-songwriters or go listen to something like an event hosted by The Northern California Songwriters Association. You will hear many godawful tuneless things that don't scan and should have been left in the shower along with yesterday's grime. People who write songs owe it to themselves and the public to listen to them carefully and critically before they inflict them on listeners -- some things may be cathartic or hypnotic for the writer but that doesn't mean we need to hear them. I tend to respect writers who have steeped themselves in tradition and who write well. There are many.

Stewie, I don't have all of Chris Smither's albums, but every one I have has at least one classic blues: "Statesboro Blues," "No More Cane on the Brazos," "Duncan and Brady" (much better live), "Dust My Broom," "Big Boss Man," etc. His live shows are laced with blues and covers and he can make anything sound good. He also plays a blue guitar. He is too smart to play just Chris Smither songs.

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: GUEST,IanofOrpington
Date: 15 Feb 03 - 02:55 PM

LesB, we are trying to drag this thread into interesting territory. Contributors were naming names no-one had heard of and care even less about. To mention these non-entities in the same sentence as Nic caused my blood to boil, the red mist to descend before my eyes, my fists to clench, and to scream obsenities at the top of my voice while shaking my head in despair at this utter and shameful sacrilege. In short, talking about Chris Smither (whoever the hell he is) must be better than talking about some non-entity dragging his guitar case and harmonica stand around the tatty folk clubs of England performing to a dwindling band of jaded folk farts. Nic is a master. We stand in awe as he strides English traditonal music like a God. We bow down before his brilliance. Only other masters - Carthy, Swarbrick, Simon Nicol- should be mentioned in the same sentence as him. I hope this has cleared up your perplexity, LesB.

By the way, since I was born and brought up in the birthplace of Nic, please note my name change.

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: Stewie
Date: 15 Feb 03 - 07:23 PM

Sharyn, 3 points in relation to your response. I have all his albums except the early one that was never released - 'Honeysuckle Dog' - and 6 blues covers in 9 albums tells its own story. 'Ain't no more cane' and 'Duncan and Brady' would not be embraced by any definition of 'blues' that I am aware of - worksong and ballad respectively is how I would categorise them. I made no suggestion that Smither sang only his own songs.

Ian, although I certainly don't 'stand in awe' or 'bow down to his brilliance' or say that he strides anything 'like a God' - at first, I thought you were joking, but the last bit looked a tad serious - Smither is every bit as skilful and moving as Jones, and so too are dozens of other performers. Wipe the other mist from your eyes and come back to the real world where, as someone sang - Gaughan, was it? - there are no gods and precious few heroes.

--Stewie.

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: GUEST,LesB
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 09:17 AM

Ian, your dragging this thread into hero worship territory. Just because you are ill informed about othr worthy artists there is no need to consign them to non-entity land.
Cheers Les

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: GUEST,IanofOrpington
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 05:04 PM

LesB, you are missing the point. Look at the name of this thread. If you like Nic Jones, You'll like...someone of equal worth, presumably. The names being mentioned are not the equal of Nic and therefore there is no reason that if you like Nic you will like the names being mentioned. I do not hero-worship, but I do admire consummate artists who rise above the average. Nic is one such artist. If my language is a little gushing then I do apologise, but I do not apologise for my sentiments. Nic is not a worthy artist, he is one of our very best.

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: GUEST,IanofOrpington
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 06:31 PM

To amend the above, I perhaps should have said that "Nic is not just a worthy artist, he is one of our very best."

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: sharyn
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 09:39 PM

Les, FYI: "Duncan and Brady" is classified as a "blues ballad," a narrative form derived from the blues, just like "Stagolee." I repeat, Chris Smither sings primarily blues in his concerts, with a heavy sprinkling of cover songs and a minority of Smither originals.

Other matters: I think "Dick Gaughan" is a good answer to the question, too: he is a masterful interpreter of traditional song and a fine guitarist -- for me, the sore point is his writing. Did Nic Jones write much? Does anyone know? (Ian probably does). Not that I care much, one way or the other, but I am curious.

And I have another American name for the list: Jody Stecher is a multi-instrumentalist, an accomplished singer and a fine interpreter of traditional song. He performs and records solo, as a duo with his wife Kate Brislin in various old-time bands. Oops, and another, the singer-guitarist Larry Hanks should be on the list, too.

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: Stewie
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 01:37 AM

Sharyn, however way you try to twist them 'Stagolee', 'John Henry', 'Casey Jones' etc, as performed by black artists, are still survivals of the ballad tradition, not blues. The only black artist that I have seen 'Duncan and Brady' associated with is Blind Jesse Harris, and he was a songster. Just out of interest, on how many live performances are you basing your statement that Smither sings mostly blues? I am curious because a friend recently returned to Oz from a year in England. She sent me a poster from a Smither concert that she attended there wherein he performed mainly his own songs. I'll bow out of this now.

Cheers, Stewie.

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: GUEST,IanofOrpington
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 04:21 PM

Sharyn. Like you, I love Dick Gaughan's interpretations of traditional or other people's songs, but I have real difficulty with his song writing. It is not a talent he has. He also likes to thrust his political views down your throat with the subtlety of a heavy metal balladeer. This is the reason I have not bought any of his recordings for the last 20 odd years. His earlier recordings that were available on Topic, and which I still have on vinyl, are superb. Like Nic, he has a wonderful combination of singing and guitar playing.

As far as I know, Nic has only written three songs. Two appear on 'In Search of Nic Jones' and they are called Ruins By The Shore and Green to Grey. These are both ecological songs, so if you are a greenie then you should approve of the sentiments. They are not the greatest songs on Earth but they are okay. Nic doesnt disgrace himself. However, like Dick Gaughan, perhaps he is a better intepretor than songwriter. The third song appears on 'Unearthed' and is called Rapunzel. It is a love song based on the nursery song. Again, so-so. Three non-essential songs from two essential CDs.

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: sharyn
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 05:21 PM

Stewie, do a little research on Afro-American blues ballads. There are a lot of them: some, like Poor Lazarus, originate in worksongs; others, like Delia and Duncan and Brady originate in current events. I believe Mississippi John Hurt sang "Stagolee" and many others were collected from Black singers in Texas prisons. They are often amalgamations of Anglo-American ballad tradition and Afro-American blues, hence the name blues ballads.

Re: Chris Smither: I see him everytime he comes to town -- about once a year for the past several -- and I listen when he talks about other places he has played and what he has played there. I'll start keeping a set list if you like. Record companies often favor songwriting because they think it is more "original" or "creative" than cover work or work in traditional genres. Some non-record company people think this, too. Not me.

Sorry for the thread creep,folks, Just trying to answer questions raised on this thread.

Now, who else should Nic Jones' fans listen to?

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: Stewie
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 06:08 PM

Sharyn,

Fair enough. Obviously, his live appearance playlists are not reflected in his recording career. As for categorisation, I have done plenty of reading on the blues over the years, and I disagree with you.

--Stewie.

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: GUEST,IanofOrpington
Date: 25 Feb 03 - 01:41 AM

Hey, Sharyn. I've managed to download an audio play-thingy from Amazon and have heard a little of Chris Smither. I take back what I said. He does sound good and he does sound a bit like Nic. It's his percussive, rhythmic style. So....if you like Nic Jones, you will like Chris Smither. (hee, hee.) Have you made it up with Stewie yet? I have a copy of Palmer's Deep Blues but I haven't read it yet so I can't join in the argument.

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: sharyn
Date: 25 Feb 03 - 10:28 PM

Thank you, Ian, for letting me know you appreciate Chris Smither. I haven't heard any more from Stewie. Who else do you like to listen to?

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: GUEST,IanofOrpington
Date: 26 Feb 03 - 02:56 AM

I think Stewie has gone off in a huff. I listen to lots of stuff, but I love the acoustic guitar and I listen to lots of that, Mainly british folkie stuff and american blues. (I love american folk-Ochs, Paxton, Hardin, Lightfoot, etc.-but they concentrate on the actual songs more than the playing, although the playing is fine enough.) So my fave folkies are Nic (ofcourse), Dick Gaughan, Bert Jansch, John Renbourne, and Davy Graham. My fave blues guitarists are Tommy Johnson, Skip James, Robert Johnson, and Blind Blake. I also love classical guitar and love Julian Bream.So if you like Nic Jones..you will like all the above. So Sharyn (love the way you spell your name, by the way)who else doyou listen to?

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: sharyn
Date: 26 Feb 03 - 01:18 PM

Well, Ian, I am a singer, although I play a bit of guitar and some fiddle, so I listen to a lot of singers and vocal groups. You know about Chris Smither now and Dick Gaughan. I like Finest Kind out of Canada quite a bit -- they're not always on, but when they are they are magnificent (their British stuff is better than their American stuff). I like some of what Martin Carthy does and a lot of Richard Thompson's stuff in all genres. My favorite local band was called Out of the Rain -- they sang a lot of traditional songs in three-part harmony and played some Irish tunes. One of their founding members, radriano, is on Mudcat, so you could get more information from him, if you like. Cindy Kallet is a wickedly good American guitarist, singer and songwriter. Carol Denney, a friend of mine, is a respectable guitarist and an ace songwriter and has several recordings. Who else? I like some of Kate Rusby, some of June Tabor, some Archie Fisher. Christine Primrose. Janet Russell and Christine Kydd. And classic Scots singers including Jeannie Robertson and Lizzie Higgins. Enough? I also like Bach, particularly the Brandenburg Concerti, Handel's Messiah and bands with lute players.

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: GUEST,IanofOrpington
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 10:29 PM

So Sharyn, we know whom you like, but as a singer and as a musician, who has influenced you? Like you, I'm a fan of Martin Carthy-a truly authentic voice in folk music. I have a friend called Les Elvin who plays folk music. He's very good. He does the local clubs in the South London area. By the way, Chris Smither is coming to the UK. I think I might just go and see him and find out what the fuss is all about. Love Bach, but cannot stand Handel's Messiah.

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: sharyn
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 01:33 AM

Who has influenced me? Loads of people. The earliest recordings I heard (at ages two and up) were folksongs from ten-inch records by Burl Ives, Bob Atcher, Susan Reed and Terry Gilkyson. Probably the Beatles next. Then I had a Joan Baez phase (and heard my first Dylan songs from her). Then Joni Mitchell. Then I discovered Ewan MacColl and all but wore out my Classic Scots Ballads record. Then I went off to folklore school and heard Jeannie Robertson, Mississippi John Hurt and classmates who sang and played as well -- although no one who wrote. Later there are all the locals I've mentioned. And in my thirties someone introduced me to the music of Richard Thompson. Besides that I sang choral music and hymns in a musically literate episcopal church from age ten to twenty-two or so, choral music in school, and did a year or so of voice lessons singing standard soprano repertory. I'm sure all of that music has influenced me: the early stuff gave me a taste for traditional song, Ewan MacColl and Jeannie Robertson taught me a lot about traditional singing style (Dick Gaughan also) hymns gave me a great exposure to harmonization and the songwriters and guitarists taught me a lot about writing and arranging. Whenever I hear Chris Smither or Martin Carthy play I think "I should get serious about guitar."

Negative influences, too: after an exposure to opera (my Mom loves it) and jazz I've thought, "I'll have no more of that."

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: Fay
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 04:15 PM

I just love the way this thread has traveled from saying how wonderful Damien is to a huge argument! He would approve greatly - of both!

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: GUEST,sid the ferret
Date: 22 Mar 04 - 11:49 AM

to get back to the subject...please(!)
      it's highly likely that if you enjoy listening to Nic Jones Chris Foster will fit the bill nicely.He's done three recordings (two deleted)A guitarist/singer in a similar style but not too derivitave.Nic must have approved 'cause he appeared on the first record(fiddle).It's called layers ,I'm sure I heard of a japanese company doing a limited edition re-issue.worth a check --honest.

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 22 Mar 04 - 12:43 PM

No, I'd much rather talk about how wonderful Damien is!
Everyone knows how good Nic Jones was/is. But not nearly enough people have seen the brilliant Demon Barber Roadshow yet .   And Fay & Damien as a duo will be bringing their startling harmonies to Islington Folk Club on 1 April. Hooray!

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: GUEST,sid the ferret
Date: 23 Mar 04 - 03:26 PM

time to start a new thread, countess? I suggest,Damien Barber,His life & work;your starter for 10!

Subject: RE: If you like Nic Jones you'll like.....
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 17 Jul 05 - 12:27 PM

John Wesley Harding has a very good album out called "Trad Arr Jones". It's not a pale imitation of life as Harding manages to put something of himself into too.
Martin Carthy is an (obvious) nomination, as is his daughter, Eliza.
Jez Lowe's a remarkable musician, whose laid back style reminds me a little of Nic Jones for some reason.
Have never met him, but Nic Jones would probably think it silly of someone to say you wont enjoy an artist if they aren't considered as great as Nic.