BS: &Help- Writers-what space is best for U?

Subject: &Help- Writers-what space is best for U?
From: katlaughing
Date: 21 Feb 01 - 01:23 PM

I write everyday, which I've always heard and agreed with, is what makes a person a writer. Sometimes I have a hard time making myself work on the long-term projects, or the marketing aspects or whatever.

I am wondering...I beat myself up thinking that a writer should be able to write just about anywhere if they are legitimate, then I read about favourite authors who have to have things just so in order to produce.

This leads me to believe I need a separate computer, which is not online, to write on, as the temptations are too much for me, sometimes. I go online to reseach something, check in at the 'Cat, do some more research, which leads to more interesting reading, and the next thing you know, my piece is not done. I also think I need a more private or generic space (i.e. library carrel) than the middle of the kitchen with the birds in one ear and cats draped all over.

So, how about it, those of you who spend time as writers etc.? What is your writing space like, do you feel you should be able to produce no matter what, and how do you overcome the distractions?

Thanks!

kat

Subject: RE: BS: &Help- Writers-what space is best for U?
From: Amergin
Date: 21 Feb 01 - 01:43 PM

Well, I tend to write late at night when everyone is gone abed. I turn the Idiot Box off, and I do not listen to music, when I'm writing. I tend to write while online, though. That way I can store my work online (have learned the hard way not to store things on the hard drive...system crashed last spring and I had to reformat...lost several poems and a couple of finished stories, plus one I was working on...), plus I find it easier to look something up, when I'm on....but then that's just me....

Subject: RE: BS: &Help- Writers-what space is best for U?
From: GUEST,DrWord
Date: 21 Feb 01 - 01:46 PM

Hey Kat

I'd like proust's totally acoustically attenuated space, but hunch that your inner space matters a *lot* more.

i forget which writers--there were several--imposed a word or page count on themselves, which would be tantamount to saying, "Get your writing done b4 u go online!" I know (from too many years as a reference librarian) how lost one can get in research, and the 'net exacerbates that to the nth.

What most piqued my interest in your post was the reference to a study carrel. Don't know where you live, but in most urban places have great libraries, often with just that--a private carrel with a shelf. This of course would mean either a laptop|notebook 'puter or longhand composition. I also don't know _what_ you write. While I love to compose @ the kb, when I'm working on a lyric I prefer the pen.

Zo ... Keep on pickin' keep on writin' ... regards, Dennis

Subject: RE: BS: &Help- Writers-what space is best for U?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 21 Feb 01 - 02:57 PM

I think you know best what you need and how you work most effectively, and that you can and should do it JUST LIKE THAT.

That's what I do, anyway.

Different "rules" for different kinds of writing, too, me. Grant-writing hell is one thing, lyrical meanderings are something else. I don't always know what will be best, till I have given into my instincts, done the thing, and then looked back. So you might want to think about whether you have several modes, each needing its own ambience, approach, and affect.

Try doing it just how you want. You'll notice whatever is not working, and then adapt that.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: &Help- Writers-what space is best for U?
From: Hawker
Date: 21 Feb 01 - 04:35 PM

I'm not a "writer" as such, more of a jotter..... I write when the mood takes me, I carry a notebook in my bag, and a tape recorder, incase I have a tune come to mind that I can add lyrics to later - I compose most of my music in the car! singing the tunes, not playing (not recommended!) I also have a notebook by my bed - and a cd constantly primed in the computer to save any jottings on. Having said that, my poetry folder consists of napkins from pubs - and drink mats, scribblings on bits of paper torn off whatever was to hand at the time etc.... I tend to write down an inspiration, then take it home, chew it over and when the mood takes me create! - this must be the sign of a very disorganised mind - or of someone who hasn't the time to be organised!!! 2 kids, NVQ to finish, Music festival to organise, Education project to devise, photography club to keep up with, dog to walk 3 cats to feed & play with, dance band bookings blah blah blah........ When do I find time to write? But I do!! Sorry if this doesn't make sense, as I said I am a jotter rather than a writer - I'll probably come back in 2 weeks time and make some sense of this!!! LOL Lucy

Subject: RE: BS: &Help- Writers-what space is best for U?
From: Spud Murphy
Date: 21 Feb 01 - 05:53 PM

You can try it if you like, but I don't think you can mudcat, research, listen to music, eat lunch and pet your cats and at the same timee maintain that you are trying to write. The carrel suggestion is best, by if you are going to write, no matter how you control the environment, discipline comes first.

I liken it to quitting smoking. Five years ago I decided to quit ater almost sixty years of two plus packs a day. Nicotine patches, hypnotism, group therapy and all those other emotional crutches didn't stop me from smoking, but DETERMINATION did. And determination is what it takes to write successfully. I frittered away a lot of time before I really understood that.

Thirty years ago my wife was going to be gone for a couple of months. We were living in Montana at the time where there are NEVER any distractins and our rented house was practically unfurnished except for bare necessities. Remote, stark, it was the perfect hermitage. I could hardly wait to get Mrs. Murphy out of the house and on her way. Never was there a better place to distill the experiences of a fruitful life into a manifest for the ages. I thought "Aha! Now, in this peaceful and idyllic getaway, I can finally WRITE!"

But wait! That ugly cord to my portable Underwood. (No PC's then). Here, this small throw rug will cover that! I stand back and survey the room. The small table, exactly in the geometric center of this simple world, the just visible edges of a colorful runner on which the sleek blue typewriter rests. The Webster's dictionarry and a dog-eared Roget's beside. And a cup of coffee on the small bit of table top remaining. And the straight-back chair I brought from the kitchen to place in regal proximity to this simplest of paradises. Now!!!

But wait, this is worth a picture. Get the Exacta. Oh, Oh! Not enough light. Need that flood and the extenion cord, too. Well actually, I should take one with me sitting on the chair. Better get the tripod.

I never wrote a word in those two months. I did get some pretty good pictures, though, and what the hell, don't they always say a picture's worth a thousand words?

Spud

Subject: RE: BS: &Help- Writers-what space is best for U?
From: katlaughing
Date: 21 Feb 01 - 06:19 PM

Dr. Word/Dennis...our small library and the college library both have carrels. Thanks for your encouragement! Sorry, what is "@ kb?" I write a weekly op/ed column as well as short stories, non-fiction essays and am working on a couple of non-fiction books.

Spud, I am enjoying getting to you know you, through your postings, very much! Thanks for that.

Actually, as a mother and a writer, I do pretty well at getting out my weekly op/ed column amidst all of the cats, etc., but you did sum up the picture quite well! When my kids were at home, I had to find time to jot things down and did a lot of "on the moment's inspiration" much as Hawker is talking about.

When I went pro and started getting published, I learned I couldn't wait for the "Muse" to strike...I had to write everyday, for practice, and research etc. to come up with subjects on which to espouse my views; heck I was being paid so I had/have no choice!

Anyway, I can do it from the space I am in, but I think you are right...the carrel is looking better and better, just have to get a laptop, 'cause even I cannot read my henscratch and the hands cramp up too much anyway.

It's the long term projcts, the books, that seem to want more quiet attention. Hell, I am in the middle of Wyoming, I know the isolation of which you speak and I do get my inspiration from the landscape, but you very accurately spelled out the conundrum of setting up space and fussing and then finding out that wasn't the block at all!

Hawker, thanks, I never go anywhere without a pad and pen, camera and tape recorder. Most often I find my songs and tunes come to me while I am here, at the Mudcat, bouncing off the energy and creativity of you all.

Thanks very much,

kat

Subject: RE: BS: &Help- Writers-what space is best for U?
From: Sorcha
Date: 21 Feb 01 - 06:46 PM

kat, I don't see how anyone could write in the midst of Chaos......phone, kids, cats, cooking, etc. I am not a "writer" per se, but most of what I do write is at the kitchen table, VERY late at night......

And it's usually jottings that turn into writing, but sometimes True Inspiration does strike. Of course, you could lock the doors, throw the cats out, turn off the phone, but I don't see that those are real options for you. Maybe get Rick to build you a shed?

Subject: RE: BS: &Help- Writers-what space is best for U?
From: katlaughing
Date: 21 Feb 01 - 06:59 PM

LOL, if it would get him down here, I'd do it in a minute, Sorcha!

It is true, this is the most "public" place in a house I've ever had as my space to write in, we've always called it the office. I've always had some interruptions, so I guess I am used to it. Just would like to focus a bit more and that may come down to sheer determination as Spud said, I just don't have much of that going right now.

In amongst it all today, I came up with my weekly column, just under 800 words, once I get going it's not too bad...it's the start that needs some oomph.

Like you and Amergin, I used to do a lot at last night, too, and i used ot use it as a channel for anger, wrote really well then, too, but as i said, once you're getting paid, even if it's just a we bit, and you have to produce, well I guess you adapt.

Subject: RE: BS: &Help- Writers-what space is best for U?
From: Spud Murphy
Date: 21 Feb 01 - 07:07 PM

Kat: @ the kb = at the keyboard. Keyboard.

You know: that tray that you hunch over while your staring in disbelief at your monitor. The one that's there to catch the crumbs from your blueberry muffin.

Thanks for the compliment. It makes the sun shine.

Spud

Subject: RE: BS: &Help- Writers-what space is best for U?
From: Peter T.
Date: 21 Feb 01 - 07:12 PM

Hi Kat, A few truths that have worked for me, when they have worked. I haven't found anywhere big enough to store my writer's blocks yet:
1) You need a separate space, preferably in another place, or another room. The ritual of going there separates you psychologically and you know what you are there for.

2) You need to get rid of all the file folders, stray books, whatever. They take your energy because your eyes stray to them, and some little part of your brain will say, "I didn't do that" or "I should be doing that," etc. It is unconsciously tiring, even if you don't consciously notice it.

3) You need to have some oldfashioned tools of the writer's trade around. Hardcover books including: The Concise Oxford, Rogets Thesaurus, Fowler's Modern English Usage; an Atlas. There are others, but you get the idea. They are great comforts, and they bespeak seriousness. Not too many, they distract. But the working tools.

4) If you are going to write on a computer, try one or two other Word Processing programmes, unless you really like the one you use. You can be quite surprised at how congenial another one can be. I have tried lots. In my opinion, Word is not a writer's software, but a report writer's software. It needs to be stripped right down for simplicity. WordPerfect is still the best for writers, but it is harder to get. About laptops, I don't know. I am a Mac person, but I find the Imac keyboard to be very tiring for a writer, I would never recommend it. I would opt for a second hand older PowerMac, you can get good ones for under $750. A friend swears by -- not at -- her Dell laptop for Windows. I am unconvinced that a laptop is a good thing for a writer. If it is going to be in your house, I would say get an ordinary computer, they are so cheap now. Of course it is all personal taste. But laptops do not say: I am here, here I write.

5) Where is your light fixture? What kind of light do you get on your printed pages? Natural light, natural light type bulbs, or the usual 60watt bulb.

6) Secret tip I learned from famous Canadian writer: Make sure that you find a shelf for your previous work. Articles, etc., should be in bound or looseleaf binders, so that you can see the expanding fruits of your work, and remind yourself that you have done it before, and can do it again. Don't treat the stuff you have done as if it were expendable, or cram it in a drawer somewhere.

7) Above all, you need someone to take you out and buy you dinner and tell you what a wonderful writer you are, and is there more coming, I don't know how you writers do it, it is so amazing, I can hardly wait, and so on.

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: &Help- Writers-what space is best for U?
From: katlaughing
Date: 21 Feb 01 - 07:33 PM

Ah...Spud, thank you, guess my head is a bit thick, today! LOL!

Peter, I was hoping you had some time for this thread. thank you, I think you've put your finger on it.

1) I cannot do separate space at teh mo' unless I go out of the house, hence the thought of a laptop and library carrel. I've done that longhand before and liked the ritual of getting out, i.e. going to *work*, but it gets a little costly when you have to provide and pay for extra O2, plus my energy needs to be concentrated on the actual writing, not the getting there, which can eat up a lot of energy.

2 & 3) I think you may have solved one of my biggest problems! I have lots of clutter in cubbyholes on my desktop and it IS distracting! I've been thinking about emptuing them out for days. Now, I shall and make room for the books you mentioned, which are across the room in the bookshelf. I think a lot of what is going on is I am missing everything that is storage, esp. my books. we've only one bookshelf at the moment.

4) I've been using MSWorks, which is what came with the computer. It is okay, but cumbersome to open and get into the right file. I may try Amergin's idea of writing online, as i find it is more inspiring to be *here* a kind of in the moment thing and doing it. I will also look for WP, I think I have a version of it on here, too.

5) all of three, the lamp to swing over and focus right on teh pages, the window at my left shoulder and the one across the room at my right shoulder

6) Good point. I have some bound in a book I made up for my mom, but all of the actual tearsheets and book of published works are, you guessed it, in a drawer!

7) I'd love to...let me check my calendar and let you know when I will be in town!**BG**

Seriously, thank you very much. I will work on some of this tomorrow morning.

As space is a real concern in this house, until we move, I don't think I will be getting another computer, although I would like to have one that is not online. The only solution I cna see to that is a laptop. I am not entirely sure I'd be comfortable with that, though.

Thanks for hearing me out everyone...helps to have people listen and give feedback, helps a bunch!

kat

Subject: RE: BS: &Help- Writers-what space is best for U?
From: WyoWoman
Date: 21 Feb 01 - 08:05 PM

I'm sitting here with my Compaq Presario laptop, clicking away while perched on a barstool at my Mom's kitchen counter. I actually love writing in the kitchen -- it's where I first started writing, early in my career, and it still comforts me. For years when I started writing and my kids were little, I used to get up at 5 a.m. so I could get some writing done before they got up, and then I'd write after they went to bed, all at my kitchen table, with my IBM Selectric pulled out or pushed against the wall, depending on whether we were eatin' or I was writin'. It still feels like my writer-home.

However, when I'm home, I have a humongous desk that looks like Central Mission Control and has the real books Peter has suggested, a scanner, printer, vertical files, file cabinet. I rewarded myself with this desk last year, my first Christmas completely alone, with no children or family members nearby, and I put it together myself over two days. I have a big, serious computer and it is online and I spend way too much time surfing, but if it isn't web-surfing, it's something damned else. I used never to be a better house-cleaner than when I had a deadline. I would get so desperate to avoid a deadline that I would do stuff like clean the grout in my bathroom with a toothbrush.

When you're determined to write, you write, regadless, and when you're avoiding it, ANYthing will do ...

Peter, liked # 6, and very much need #7!

WW

Subject: RE: BS: &Help- Writers-what space is best for U?
From: Amos
Date: 21 Feb 01 - 08:39 PM

The issue is the focal plane. Louis L'Amour knew this, and regardless of opinions about the altitude of his writing, he was prolific and turned out tight plots and bright colorful characters. He said that given a typewriter he could write in the middle of Holloywood Boulevard. Steven King described the transition zone that occurs when a writers focus meets the page; the attention burns a passage and the writer finds himself dropped whole through a reality-gate and into the universe of the page. Like any universeinto which one drops, it may be still, dull, riotous, harmonious, coherent, fractal and dissipative, black and impenetrable, flat and routine, or scintillating and colored with discoveries. You start from where you land, and proceed toward where you mean to go.

But the key to admission is the ability to place attention on that focal plane and place the intention-in-full of your highest self there, as well; then the paper vaporizes and the far horizons emerge from the mists of transition. Or so it seems to me.

You can tend the environment to make it conducive, and tend the ergonomics so your body isn't always wincing and pullling you back out. You can clear your plate of other obligations so your mind can relax and let you go off without interrupting you. You can send the kids away and lock up your spouse and mail your dog to Juneau in order to have the space you want. Or you can do none of these things; and if your care for the focal plane is done right, it will not matter. You will write.

A

Subject: RE: BS: &Help- Writers-what space is best for U?
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 21 Feb 01 - 09:27 PM

Hi Kat: I write amidst clutter but I have my own little office where I do it so I usually don't get too many distractions. Both cats like to visit which as you know means they have to be the center of attention. BUt I muddle through and I've never missed a deadline. Ity helps that once I know how I want the article to go, i write quickly and normally don't lose a lot of time to editing. BUt, I've written on kitchen tables, in airports etc. And I will sometimes do the first draft in long hand especially if it is poetry. bou usually I'm at the paymasters desk and I purge myself of the temptation to web surf when I'm writing. Kindest reguards, Neil

Subject: RE: BS: &Help- Writers-what space is best for U?
From: katlaughing
Date: 21 Feb 01 - 11:14 PM

That's the old romanticist's notion of writing, Amos. Yes, I believe it can be so, but not typically...it doesn't allow for the grey areas, the foibles of real life. Steven King holed up in a closed old mountain hotel which he fashioned the Shining after, for a whole winter, being mean and ugly and drunken to his wife, according to the caretaker of the hotel my brother met many years ago, so maybe he was consumed by his characters and it was as you say for him, but not without that physicality.

I do feel that focus, but not on a daily basis and that is what I am mostly talkign about.

Neil, I do that, too, once I get started and article pretty much writes itself and there is very little editing needed. Thanks very much for your input.

Thanks to everyone. I appreciate your comments,

kat

Subject: RE: BS: &Help- Writers-what space is best for U?
From: Amos
Date: 21 Feb 01 - 11:27 PM

Kat:

Awww, Romantacist, pantacist. The onlyproblem I have in writing is sticking my nose close enough to that page. Even if I'm writing dunning letters. But I know it is different for every writer and we can't all be Louis L'Amour; darn good thing, too, or we'd be swamped in dumb Westerns.

A

Subject: RE: BS: &Help- Writers-what space is best for U?
From: katlaughing
Date: 21 Feb 01 - 11:32 PM

Hey! Them's fightin' words! Words at forty paces/something or other at high noon(how does that song go?) They aren't dumb Westerns! You're right about his tight-packed action, his athentic details and his colourful characters and one of the best damn books I ever read, "Walking Drum!"

Did you ever read about his house and library where he wrote? Aw, gawd, we used to tramp around in that part of Colorado when I was a kid and I can envision his library so easily...I'd almost die to have a room like that!

lol...kat

Subject: RE: BS: &Help- Writers-what space is best for U?
From: Mountain Dog
Date: 22 Feb 01 - 10:04 AM

Hi, Kat

One of the most practical pieces of advice about writing I've ever come across - and one I've kept in mind through many years of writing - is this bit of wisdom from James Thurber:

"Don't get it right - get it WRITTEN!"

I tend to do my revising as I'm writing, rather than doing sequential drafts, but until and unless I start putting words on paper (or screen), I find there's far less work to for me to revise than there is wasted time for me to regret.

Subject: RE: BS: &Help- Writers-what space is best for U?
From: Peg
Date: 22 Feb 01 - 11:50 AM

Great thread! Thanks for all these great tips. Espeoially from Peter T who I think is one of the finest unsung writers I have ever had the privilege of reading...

I am a professional writer, but I definitely make a distinction between stuff I "have" to write (for payment, teaching, assignments, labors of love like Witchvox and other activism, etc.) and what I "want" to write (fiction, poetry, plays, essays etc.) and the places I find best for doing this work is different.

Until I got laid off in December, I had lots of downtime at my office job and did much of my freelance work during that downtime (which includes mostly film reviews and arts writing including interviews). Now, I am teaching part time and bought myself a new/refurbished iMac (which promptly had to go to the shop for 3 weeks!!) and am working on a potential book deal with a big ole publisher and as ever struggling with doing teh sort of writing which will hopefuly help me make that leap to being a full-time professional writer.

I am in an ideal situation right now because I collect severance until May and so have time between teaching to write if I want. But I am still getting used to this "not 9 to 5 thing" which I had done for the last two years. I am enjoying being able to do errands or go for a walk or hike during the day. I had intended to get into a regular schedule and find a nice cafe to bring my pads of paper and pens to. I have scoped out several and now the struggle is forcing myself to go there regularly and as the old masters of the craft say, apply my backside to the seat of the chair and write!

Working at home has its ups and downs. I do not know how those with kids manage it; for me, dirty dishes or florrs, the phone and my cats are distraction enough. Unless I am on a tight deadline in which case I can usually buckle down. If I am not too tired or bleary-eyed from watching TV, my best time to write is at night.

I find the very best method for me to do my most creative work (my ongoing attempt to write a novel, for example, and my poetry, and this new "creative non-fiction" book project) is in a somewhat noisy, chaotic atmosphere like a coffee shop or pub. Really loud obnoxious music makes it hard for me to concentrate, but if the noise level is middling and the music not objectonable, I find it is much easier (don't ask me why) to concentrate and churn out work LONGHAND (no laptop for me) in this sort of atmosphere than at home where relative peace and quiet but many domestic distractions await...

I really prefer to begin longhand and type stuff in later. I think the synapses of the brain function differently with pen and paper than they do when engaged with a keyboard. I try to impart this wisdom to my students who of course cannot function or write a simple essay without a computer.

In this you also have a hard copy of your initial creative efforts: often the most pure. My "first draft" writing gets revised more in the way of organization than in terms of major changes in the prose itslef, since I struggle for the right words as I go along. Others work better just getting the pen moving and polishing later.

What I do not understand and maybe some of you can help me: why can't I get energized about working on this book that an editor from this major publisher contacted me to ask me to write? It is not a hard fast deal yet, I have sent sample chapters and we are still talking about what it will be exactly. I have come up with a structure for it and many topics to be covered and written about fufty pages total...But I need to work on it a lot more and time is going by and it is hard for me. Am I afraid of success? What is my problem? Most writers like me who still do not have a book under their belt would leap at such a chance. Why can't I get it together?

Peg

Subject: RE: BS: &Help- Writers-what space is best for U?
From: wdyat12
Date: 22 Feb 01 - 01:07 PM

kat,

I like to write also and yes, I need a special place to do it. I used to write everything out long hand first in the days of typewriters. That way I could cut and paste litterally. Now I compose on screen, so I need to be at my computer. I like a big room with windows and as many other distractions as possible. It helps me stay focused? I gave up my diningroom table to the cyberbeast. I have piles of books and papers all around me and it is near my woodstove. Feels cozy. I have a fire extinguisher handy incase the clutter migrates to near the stove.

wdyat12

Subject: RE: BS: &Help- Writers-what space is best for U?
From: Mr Red
Date: 22 Feb 01 - 06:00 PM

Mindspace!

Post divorce, unemployment, anger (focus), Long highway solo car journeys, walking to work.

Jotting down ideas frees-up mindspace for new thoughts. Pocket memos.

Subject: RE: BS: &Help- Writers-what space is best for U?
From: katlaughing
Date: 22 Feb 01 - 06:39 PM

Interesting points, Mr. Red, now that I think of it....strong emotions do cause me to write some really powerful stuff, but not esp. good for the blood pressure, so I guess I will try to stay married...could do more with those long rides in the country, though. I get lots of ideas when we travel and I do write them down.

Wdyat12, I got so tired of cutting and pasting in the early days of promoting my brother's music, typing and putting together two small booklets of his, that I thought I'd died and gone to heaven when I got a computer on which I could that!**BG**

Peg, I like your idea about synapses of the brain, but about 20 years ago, when I was writing ad copy for a radio station, it was type as fast as you can think and get them done. That is where I learned to write quickly from scratch on a typewriter and I guess it has stayed with me. I still do jot down stuff and will write longhand if there is no computer available, but my hands do cramp up terribly and it is all but illegible even to me:-)

Peter T has my vote, too! If only...eh? Definitely one of my inspirations!

Mountain Dog, that's what my husband has always said. His dad sold all kinds of things, including the Famous Writer's Course, plus he was a journalist. Rog has always said, "sit down and write, everyday, get something down." Good advice and I do that most days.

Peg, that is wonderful about the book and publisher! Is the subject something you enjoy writing about? If not, maybe that is making it harder to get into? Is the publisher giving you good feedback, direction, etc?

Maybe it is just a writer thing.:-) My cousin is a very successful older children's author. Everytime I talk to her she is pushing the limits of books due, in the process, going to print, etc. and it seems that is just how she works well...under pressure. I talked to her the other day and she has a new book due out by September, written, edited, proofed, etc. and out on the shelves in September and she hasn't even started! Good luck to you and congratulations!

Thanks, everyone!

kat

Subject: RE: BS: &Help- Writers-what space is best for U?
From: Peter T.
Date: 22 Feb 01 - 06:40 PM

(#7) Trust me, if I ever get to Wyoming/Oklahoma it is a date.
yours ever, Peter T. P.S. Peg, there are a zillion reasons, motives why people stumble, even over -- especially over -- book contracts. It is like Phd students, some are afraid of their fathers, some are afraid they will be boxed in, some are afraid they will finally have to reveal that they "know nothing", I could go on all day. I would start a thread on Writer's Block except that that is a very neat way to avoid writing.
yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: &Help- Writers-what space is best for U?
From: kendall
Date: 22 Feb 01 - 07:13 PM

I must have absolute silence to write. The sound of cans rusting will distract me.

Subject: RE: BS: &Help- Writers-what space is best for U?
From: Amos
Date: 22 Feb 01 - 09:06 PM

The sound of rusting attitudes ruins it for me. :>)

A

Subject: RE: BS: &Help- Writers-what space is best for U?
From: kendall
Date: 23 Feb 01 - 01:38 PM

?????

Subject: RE: BS: &Help- Writers-what space is best for U?
From: Amos
Date: 23 Feb 01 - 02:31 PM

Not an ad hominem, Kendall. Just being funny. It is true that when I find myself sitting in the middle of an antiquated attitude, it often slows down my ability to write. Or I end up saying things that look really stupid the morning after. (OK, as the straight man here, I've done my bit....)

Regards,

A

Subject: RE: BS: &Help- Writers-what space is best for U?
From: kendall
Date: 23 Feb 01 - 03:27 PM

Gottcha Mate.One tiny negative thought will kill a creative mood every time.

Subject: RE: BS: &Help- Writers-what space is best for U?
From: Amos
Date: 07 Mar 01 - 12:02 AM

Peg:

I can only speculate but I am torn by your plea. I can imagine, for example, that it is not the product you really _want_ to give your power to, even though it might make some dough. Or, that you had your sights set on a different vision, a different work, and this would just bring a long chain of interruptions to it. (Maybe not so many interruptions as going broke, though, I guess). My experience is that the only source of writing is the intention. I said somewhere upstairs that when you get your nose ontop that page, the transition (for me) occurs and you are in that space and what needs to be said there becomes your sole imperative, as important as putting out a fire or saving a baby on its own way -- but the hard part is the dive in when you feel like lyting on the bank in the sunshine instead.

This does not mean something is wrong with you, it just means your intention is placed otherwise. If you spot where, perhaps you can revise that according to a new set of preferences you wish to impose...

Dunno if this helps at all, but I hope it does!

Love,

A

Subject: RE: BS: &Help- Writers-what space is best for U?
From: Gervase
Date: 07 Mar 01 - 07:05 AM

Amos has got it - the most important space is the one inside your head. In 20 years of writing, I've done it in all sorts of places in varying degrees of comfort and sometimes when I was scared shitless. But always there's a zen-like moment that comes when you connect with your text (if that doesn't sound horribly pretentious) and outside distractions suddenly recede.
That said, a quiet room or somewhere without distractions is undoubtedly going to help!

Subject: RE: BS: &Help- Writers-what space is best for U?
From: Gervase
Date: 07 Mar 01 - 07:07 AM

...and, drifting slightly, has anyone ever been anything but melancholic when writing something during a long-haul flight, or is it just me?

Subject: RE: BS: &Help- Writers-what space is best for U?
From: Peg
Date: 07 Mar 01 - 10:48 AM

thanks for your comments Amos (and kat, and Peter, et al); actually it is very much a project I WANT to do! A publisher contacted me (after reading my stuff on Witchvox) to ask me to write a book on modern witchcraft in America, and after some conversations decided he wanted to have a very personal anecdotal spin; part memoir, part overview.

It is the perfect sort of thing for me to write. I sent some ideas and a sample chapter and he was enthused but we are still not at the point where we are signing any contracts; he may forward this on to another editor at some point, for starters.

Even this week, on spring break, I am having trouble geting to work on it! Though after three days of being snowbound I think this is gonna be the day...I have also started a new project (a screenplay collaboration) which could also be a BIG thing; but there is no reason not to work on both...

My life transition (from working 9 to 5 to part-time, at home) would, I thought, facilitate things. Then my computer ended up in the shopo for almost a month and that threw me off. Now, I have no excuse. Good goddess, do I fear success?

I think I need to put my books in storage and shoot my television, eh?

I am off to write! Damn it!

peg :)

Subject: RE: BS: &Help- Writers-what space is best for U?
From: Amos
Date: 07 Mar 01 - 09:48 PM

Shoot the television for certain. It gets between nose and page!

One of my favorite writers said that his writing was done with the thought in mind of writing a"letter to a favorite aunt". He used that to describe how he "tuned the voice" of his writing, so to speak. And he was successful. So p'raps there is a young girl out there now who in a year will really, really mneed to read your book. I would hate to keep her waiting, eh?

Fie!! Put ye bum in chair!! Nose on screen!!! WITE!!!

Ruv,

A

Subject: RE: BS: &Help- Writers-what space is best for U?
From: Peter T.
Date: 08 Mar 01 - 08:12 AM

Peg, try not getting started as you usually would. Try this: get a huge sheet of paper, tape it on a wall, and some fat magic markers, and write the main ideas in big letters, put balloons around them, connect them, brainstorm the project. Draw pictures of witches. What a new witch would look like. Try and generate some kindergarten fun around it. That might warm you up. At least it will give you some laughs -- don't get locked into the "writer sitting at her desk" mental model. Play with the subject for an hour.

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: &Help- Writers-what space is best for U?
From: hesperis
Date: 08 Mar 01 - 08:19 AM

I do all my projects while chatting on yahoo messenger. It helps keep me at my desk, and feeling less isolated. That way, I don't wander aimlessly around the apartment when I want diversion. That and I am doing a couple of projects with people over the net, so we talk about the projects and stuff. But I do a lot more than just writing, so that might not apply to you.

It's really funny, I actually get more actual work done when I do it this way!

Subject: RE: BS: &Help- Writers-what space is best for U?
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 Mar 01 - 09:26 AM

Oh boy, Peg, I can relate, although, yesterday finally felt shifted; I worked all day on writing instead of playing at other things and I have no idea what trigger that!

I seem to write better and easier, if I am online, too, as hesperis has noted. I've even thought about starting a thread, writing what I wanted to get down, then copying and pasting THAT to my WP, and never hitting the submit button for the thread! There is something about the Mudcat which is very stimulating for me, as a writer.

Considering your rental situation, maybe you are being a little tough on yourself right now? I would find it difficult to be motivated in the light of such unsettledness. I'll bet you'll have an easier time of it once that gets sorted. It is really fantastic that you were asked to do this project and the screenplay sounds exciting, too!

That writing to a favourite aunt is a good ploy. One of my favourite books is Letters of A Woman Homesteader, a collection of actual letters, so well written. Oftentimes, I will try to write as though to a friend or relative and that seems to help.

Keep us posted, please? Those are really exciting!

kat

Subject: RE: BS: &Help- Writers-what space is best for U?
From: Peg
Date: 08 Mar 01 - 10:13 AM

thanks for all the encouragement and suggestions, Amos, Peter and Kat! Most helpful. Amos the image of the gal who is waiting for this book, well that is a shot in the arm! And peter your advice on trying a different mode of attack is also wonderful and made me smile...

I got a jolt of positive energy yesterday which helped motivate me (got a teaching assignment for summer session which will allow me more time to write than working some full-time thing would). Kat, the rental thing is a headache and just the "not knowing" is rough. I am trying to remain positive. Gods, us over-privileged Westerners are so neurotic! I have a roof over my head, loved ones, food in the pantry, my health, my looks, my mind, and no fear of rioting in the streets for democracy! (not saying that last shouldn't happen...)

Today the sun shines bright on a foot of snow. I shall go cross-country skiing and let the cold air refresh my brain! (Oh, and, got some writing done yesterday; now I wanna try that big "kindergarten" method! I have a 1x2 foot chalkboard and colored chalk...)

Thanks, all, and will keep you posted.

Peg

Subject: RE: BS: &Help- Writers-what space is best for U?
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Mar 01 - 12:09 PM

I've found that the one sure thing that focuses me is a deadline.

Right now, I write a column twice a week. I am in the fortunate position that I get to pick which days, each week and that really helps but I still have to get it done.

After about two or three hours, I almost always figure that I am just about done but there are a few more things I want to do, usally a bit of research or perhaps look for an illustration and write a caption. Suddenly, I have spent an additional five hours "fine-tuning" and I am not sure where the time went except that my lower body feels totally deprived of blood and my bladder has the opposite sort of liquid problem. I think that what excites me is that I can see the piece getting better as I sand away the rough spots and put a good finish on the construction.

When I learned to use a computer, it freed me up a great deal. Now I can write, get something down and then worry about the final organization later. Often I move paragraphs around and I am always moving sentences. Before computers, I used to agonize over where a thought went before I wrote it down. Now I just get the sentences stored in the file and worry about refinement and organization later. The result is there is more vigor in my writing, I think. I think all this is to say that for me I think i have found the balance between the freshness of the original thought and the finished, crafted piece which doesn't feel self-consciously manipulated. I certainly hope so.

Writing longer form, say forty pages and up, is more of a challenge for me since that does take organization. A book that I did was the most challenging because it had to go through an idea stage in which I sold it, an outline stage in which I sold it again and then into the drafts stage. Other people were deeply involved and so there were compromises. In this case, my motivation was still professionalism and deadline but it was not a particularly enjoyable process. Although the editor was pleased, I feel looking back, that it was not my best work.

Writing letters and on messages Mudcat is something else again. I get caught up and a simple letter or post grows into a long story which I go over, edit and re-edit until I have put a substantial amount of time into it, far more than I had intended. I really enjoy telling stories and Mudcat lets me do that. I will often cut them out and send them to some friends figuring now that I have put the work out, I might as well share them. I also figure that my kids will enjoy reading them someday,at least I hope they will.

On my motorcycle trips, I take along my hand-held Psion and sitting in truck stops or campsites, I spend an hour or so recounting my day - mostly the people I met or some thought I had. The Psion has allowed me write just about anywhere and the memories that get saved that way are wonderful. I prefer preserving them in words rather than photographs. (Actually, I prefer audio recordings of peole I've met on the road to photographs too. Strange for someone who spent a couple decades as a television journalist.) I've never published my travel writing or tried to. My travel journals though have been a great source of pleasure for me because they have captured memories and even details of remembered incidents that would have disappeared if not put to a page. I write these as though I were going to have the opportunity to share them with Charles Kuralt.

I guess that I am really fortunate that I enjoy the process of writing most of the things I am called on to write and, considering how much of my life is spent at a keyboard, that's a good thing.

Sourdough

Subject: RE: BS: &Help- Writers-what space is best for U?
From: Mr Red
Date: 08 Mar 01 - 12:26 PM

Amos

TV is a time waster BUT

I "collected" a version of the "Old Barbed Wire" from a piece about Robert Graves the war poet recalling a song he sung in the trenches. It is similar but clearly has significant differences. TV is a resource I guess.

AND I once wrote a very rewarding song with a blaring TV, fighting kids and a screaming nanny. Kid's mom was actually watching me and steering the kids and their nanny to avoid interruptions. Only if it intrudes is it a killer.

AND I was inspired by Johnathan Miller vignette on the Victorian tade of "Pure Finding" and I said "someone should write a song on the subject". So.......

(pure is a euphemism for dogshit)

The TV is still a waste of time but I have reasons to thank it.

Subject: RE: BS: &Help- Writers-what space is best for U?
From: GUEST,LaPlume
Date: 08 Mar 01 - 01:30 PM

Stephen King's "On Writing" is well worth a read. In it, he says one true thing: if you want to write fiction, make an appointment with your muse at a particular time and place, and be there every day, writing. After a while the muse will uncross his/her legs and saunter in and sit down and start to chat.

Then the trick is to keep at it.

Subject: RE: BS: &Help- Writers-what space is best for U?
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 Mar 01 - 07:20 PM

I've recently heard that Stephen King is now free and clear of long term publishng contracts to turn out horror and has begun writing stuff he's always longed to...seems he was so locked into those contracts it took his all to fulfill them, including some serious bouts with alcohol. Not saying that that precludes a Muse, just an interesting bit.

BTW, Peg, something I have thought about, for anecdotal stories, is putting them on cassette tape, first. Might be easier to tell the stories that way, as though to a visiting friend, then transpose. Easier way would be to dictate them directly to your WP program using Naturally Speaking, save a lot of time. Just another thought.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: &Help- Writers-what space is best for U?
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 09 Mar 01 - 02:44 AM

I wonder was the caretaker of the hotel that Kat's brother met the saintly old caretaker in The Shining. Bwhaahahahahaaaa

Subject: RE: BS: &Help- Writers-what space is best for U?
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 09 Mar 01 - 06:29 AM

I enjoy writing in a cafe where they choose music I can appreciate, the coffee is good and the monster muffins are fresh. I've been doing this since I was a young teenager. Now I do it at Indigo Cafe Music Bookstore. They play pretty good music. The seats are real comfy and its cosy beside the electric fireplace and I am guaranteed Starbucks. That is the best space for me to do my writing. Mind you my writing mostly consists of spelling out words 100 times I can not seem to spell correctly (just kidding).
I love to write.

Bonnie

Subject: RE: BS: &Help- Writers-what space is best for U?
From: Peg
Date: 09 Mar 01 - 11:24 AM

good suggestion Kat; I have always though this would be a good way for me to work. I have a micro-cassette recorder I use for interviews; I should carry it with me when I go walking (when best ideas come to me). And your suggestion recording anecdotal material here first is a good one! thanks,

Peg

Subject: RE: BS: &Help- Writers-what space is best for U?
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 Mar 01 - 12:04 PM

Mudcat=Muse

LOL, thanks, Peg...I think I will try some more of that and the tape recording..can't find my microcassette since the move, but I can sit here at the desk, use RealProducer and just record it that way.

Subject: RE: BS: &Help- Writers-what space is best for U?
From: Mr Red
Date: 09 Mar 01 - 01:41 PM

Peg

tape recorder is a boon but it is best as a transfer device. The data is recorded serially and older material harder to find and slower. Transcribe thoughts from it reglarly or use a selection of tapes to shorten the finding process.

I now have a silicon device and it numbers and date/timestamps the tracks. Access is quick. Shame I am not musing much now.

Not that I am trashing the medium, but chat rooms are a bit like TV's in their propensity to fill the mind which could be being creative. My writers block pre-dates chat room activity though.

Subject: RE: BS: &Help- Writers-what space is best for U?
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 Mar 01 - 02:08 PM

Mr. Red, by silicon do you mean it is digital? Just what kind of device, please?

Subject: RE: BS: &Help- Writers-what space is best for U?
From: Peter T.
Date: 09 Mar 01 - 02:43 PM

Hey, Banjo, I have a friend who cruises the Indigo cafe, looking for women! I am told it is a great place for it.
yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: &Help- Writers-what space is best for U?
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 09 Mar 01 - 07:27 PM

Peter T. for sure there is a lot a cruising going on at Indigo just like a bar sometimes. But....I have learned to make it very, very clear that I am NOT interested by having a swarm of books around me that I know will fend off such preditorial animals. Books like........ 'The Joys of Saving Your Marriage' or 'How To Cope With Being Obducted by Marshins', or 'Bridal Showers for Dummies'. Books like that.

:)

Little Neo

Subject: RE: BS: &Help- Writers-what space is best for U?
From: Amos
Date: 09 Mar 01 - 07:35 PM

But...but ... WHY would anyone throw a bridal shower at a DUMMY? Wouldn't that ruin the store-window?

A

Subject: RE: BS: &Help- Writers-what space is best for U?
From: hesperis
Date: 09 Mar 01 - 09:04 PM

Amos, you DUMMY! Ooops! :ducks and runs away very fast, as Amos is deluged by bridal wear:

Subject: RE: BS: &Help- Writers-what space is best for U?
From: Amos
Date: 09 Mar 01 - 11:05 PM

Does this mean we're going steady, hesp?

A

Subject: RE: BS: &Help- Writers-what space is best for U?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Mar 01 - 11:28 PM

In your dreams, Amos. Har! Har! (You too, Matt...)

- LH

Li'l Neo - Obducted by Marshins? Christ! That sounds serious. I've heard of people being probed by Antareans, sexed by Venusians, questioned by parliamentarians, cross-examined by lawyers, slandered by libertarians...but OBDUCTED???? That is just too, too hideous. The only thing worse is to be obducted and obfuscated simultaneously, and no one is cruel enough to do that. Well, almost no one.

- LH