Who wrote 'Young Ned of the Hill'

Subject: who wrote what
From: MARINER
Date: 23 Mar 01 - 02:01 AM

I've just read in another thread(musical legends) that Terry Woods co-wrote "Young Ned of the Hills". Have I missed something here?. I've checked the DigiTrad, the only songs with that title are as far as I know ,traditional. Is there another song with the same name composed by Terry Woods?.I wonder,are there any other "new" songs with the same titles as traditional tunes. Just curious and confused. Mariner.

Subject: RE: who wrote what
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 23 Mar 01 - 02:08 AM

There appear to be about 3 of that name by 1805. And the orginal title is in Gaelic.

Subject: RE: who wrote what
From: GUEST,Brian
Date: 23 Mar 01 - 08:55 AM

The song Ned of the Hills is a translation from a traditional Gaelic song. Somebody else may be able to come up with the title. It escapes me at present. I am not aware of Terry Woods writing a song with the same title, are adapting a traditional version.

I sang it in the house one evening, and my wife was surprized. She knew of it in Gaelic, but had never heard it in English, I'd never previously heard it in Gaelic. We really must try talking to each other more often. :-) If nobody else comes up with the Gaelic version, I'll post again.

Brian

Subject: RE: who wrote what
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 23 Mar 01 - 09:47 AM

There are three sets of Ned of the Hill in the DT, under slightly different titles, all findable through a search for the usual name.  One of them,  EDMUND OF THE HILL (Ned of the Hill)  also contains the (or an) Irish Gaelic text: Eamonn a' Chnuic.

There is another translation in the Forum, posted by Bruce:  Ned of the Hill

Perhaps Terry Woods made his own translation; but probably not.  I've come across a number of things that people have attributed to him that he couldn't have written without being very very old indeed... Malcolm

Subject: RE: who wrote what
From: GUEST,Brian
Date: 23 Mar 01 - 10:00 AM

Thanks Malcolm. Eamonn a'Chnuic - that was the title I was tring to remember. Perhaps I won't have to speak to the wife after all. :->

Brian

Subject: RE: who wrote what
From: Ritchie
Date: 23 Mar 01 - 10:19 AM

who did n't write what, as he was on second.

regards ritchie

Subject: RE: who wrote what
From: MARINER
Date: 23 Mar 01 - 02:24 PM

I am aware of Eamonn on Cnoic and the versions in the DT. I just thought maybe Terry Woods had written another song with the same title. Seems he didn't then?

Subject: RE: Who wrote 'Young Ned of the Hill'
From: GUEST
Date: 05 May 14 - 01:05 AM

Yes. He co-wrote a tune in 1989ish with Ron Kavana--- Young Ned of The Hill ----Pogues and others have recorded.

Subject: RE: Who wrote 'Young Ned of the Hill'
From: GUEST
Date: 05 May 14 - 01:58 PM

Samuel Lover wrote one of the English versions " Dark is the evening , silent the hour...

Subject: RE: Who wrote 'Young Ned of the Hill'
From: GUEST
Date: 05 May 14 - 03:47 PM

I learned the Cathy Ryan version and many years ago I met a man who was able to sing the Gaellic version so I must have the same tune
I presume its the SamLover, now who was he?

Subject: RE: Who wrote 'Young Ned of the Hill'
From: MartinRyan
Date: 05 May 14 - 04:22 PM

Basics re Samuel Lover are on Wikipedia:
Click here

Regards

Subject: RE: Who wrote 'Young Ned of the Hill'
From: MartinRyan
Date: 05 May 14 - 04:41 PM

Sometimes confused with Charles Lever:

Click here

Regards

Subject: RE: Who wrote 'Young Ned of the Hill'
From: Helen
Date: 21 Apr 16 - 04:07 AM

As Guest, 05 May 14 - 01:05 AM noted, The Pogues recorded a song called Young Ned of the Hill. Terry Woods has been a member of the band.

Young Ned Of The Hill - The Pogues

Éamonn an Chnoic - wiki states the following:

"Éamonn an Chnoic" has been recorded by countless artists in both English and Irish. Some versions, such as the "Young Ned of the Hill" recorded by The Pogues, adapt the lyrics to a fast-tempo song with only a passing similarity to the original folk song. Completely instrumental versions are also common.

Helen

Subject: RE: Who wrote 'Young Ned of the Hill'
From: Iains
Date: 21 Apr 16 - 04:21 AM

A superb version by Celtic Crossroads below.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpVobgdiyVU

Subject: RE: Who wrote 'Young Ned of the Hill'
From: leeneia
Date: 21 Apr 16 - 02:40 PM

I have a facsimile edition of "O'Neills Music of Ireland" as published in 1903. I have played the song "Ned of the Hill - Eadmon Cnuick" from it, and it sounds nothing like the Pogues' tune.

I think it can safely be said that "Young Ned of the Hill" by the Pogues is an original, modern piece of music.

Subject: RE: Who wrote 'Young Ned of the Hill'
From: Helen
Date: 21 Apr 16 - 04:46 PM

I recently found this:

O'Neill's Music of Ireland

There are midi files of all the tunes in O'Neill's book.

Ned of the Hill is listed on this page

Helen

Subject: RE: Who wrote 'Young Ned of the Hill'
From: Helen
Date: 21 Apr 16 - 04:51 PM

We never analysed The Pogues when I was at uni, many decades ago. Maybe I should have been studying Cultural Analysis. LOL

"Young Ned of the Hill" and the Reemergence of the Irish Rapparee: A Textual and

Subject: RE: Who wrote 'Young Ned of the Hill'
From: Richard Mellish
Date: 22 Apr 16 - 04:37 PM

Folklore often attaches events to noteworthy (real or mythical) individuals. There's an example in the DT link posted by (the late lamented) Malcolm Douglas:
"Edmund Ryan of the Hill was an Irish earl displaced by Cromwell after the Battle of the Boyne".

Even for Cromwell that would have been a remarkable achievement, considering that by then he had been dead for more than 30 years.

And the tune on that page is significantly different from the one that I'm familiar with from recordings of at least two singers.

Subject: RE: Who wrote 'Young Ned of the Hill'
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Apr 16 - 04:56 PM

Richard - don't let facts get in the way of history... ;>)>

Subject: RE: Who wrote 'Young Ned of the Hill'
From: GUEST,Hilary
Date: 23 Apr 16 - 04:50 PM

Helen, while the journal is called Cultural Analysis, the academic discipline of the article would be folklore. Of course, I doubt that a song in a mass mediated context would have been an acceptable topic of study in folklore studies "many decades ago" anyway as the field has become much broader since the 1970s.

Subject: RE: Who wrote 'Young Ned of the Hill'
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Apr 16 - 05:20 PM

ned of the hill by the pogues is not the sane as the tradtional song that I sing, which starts dark as the evening, silent the hour

Subject: RE: Who wrote 'Young Ned of the Hill'
From: leeneia
Date: 25 Apr 16 - 11:14 AM

Richard, you are right about the tune. There are three tunes in circulation which have been borrowed, changed, and interchanged. They are:

Ned of the Hill
Lambs on the green hills
Niel Gow's Lament for his Second Wife

I have been working with the tune for Ned of the Hill from O'Neill's. The poor thing has been fiddlefied to within an inch of its life. It's got dots, it's got swoops, it's got sixteenth notes, it's got runs up and down the scale where we forgot how it goes, and it's got a range of an octave plus a fifth. If ever a woman's voice sang of a desirable young man named Ned, that voice has been swept up and tossed out.

And when I got done with all my work on the tune in O'Neill's, I had a pretty good melody, but one which you can hardly put any chords to. So if you have a folk act, what are your accompanists supposed to do? Better just to borrow some other tune, say Niel Gow's 'Lament.'