BS: Good people Bad people......Same people?

Subject: Good people Bad people......Same people?
From: Dave Wynn
Date: 25 Mar 01 - 06:28 PM

During my re-evaluation process (I am currently undergoing a personality evaluation process...***heavy irony warning***) I have noticed that more than one person tells me I have different attitudes and moods when they communicate with me.

This is obviously their problem because I know that I am so stable and understanding at all times (even under extreme pressure) that I should have been either a demi-God , Sainted or famous...as I am non of these it concerns me that perhaps there may be a micron of truth in their opinions.

Is this a normal reaction to negative criticism (never had any before!!)...and more importantly does everyone have such mood swings and how does one deal with them?

Spot

Subject: RE: BS: Good people Bad people......Same people?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 25 Mar 01 - 06:40 PM

Moods are SUPPOSED to swing...

Subject: RE: BS: Good people Bad people......Same people?
From: Jeri
Date: 25 Mar 01 - 06:58 PM

Spot, if there's someone out there who doesn't ever let distraction and stress color his moods, he's got wings and a halo.

Where I once worked, I'd been stressed out and short with people who worked for me. I apologised, and said I was being grumpy and the next time, they should point it out to me. A couple of weeks later, someone pointed it out. I said "I am NOT grumpy," and went on to explain at length why I was justified in being upset. I went back to my office and started laughing my ass off a couple of minutes later. I went back to the person who'd called me grumpy, still laughing, and told him I thought there was a possibility he'd been right.

Jeri, who is NOT grumpy, and anyone who ever dares to call me grumpy had just better watch out...dammit!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Good people Bad people......Same people?
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 25 Mar 01 - 07:01 PM

I'm often grumpy. So what?

Subject: RE: BS: Good people Bad people......Same people?
From: Sorcha
Date: 25 Mar 01 - 07:08 PM

Good People/Bad People= Same?--generally, depending on what day it is, or what kind of a mood I'm in. I can be very tolerant, or very grumpy depending on.........lotsa stuff.
Mood Swings--if ya don't have 'em, you're sick.
Yes, Kendall, we know you are grumpy! (Usually, too, so go fall in love..........)
sorry.

Subject: RE: BS: Good people Bad people......Same people?
From: Dave Wynn
Date: 25 Mar 01 - 07:24 PM

Whilst I realise it may be bad form to reply to my own thread (shades of schizophrenia) I must point out that like Jeri I do not have mood swings...Grumpy or Happy days..or any other kind of character flaw.

I was just remarking that other people think I do and how I should deal with them...!;-)

Spot

Subject: RE: BS: Good people Bad people......Same people?
From: Jeri
Date: 25 Mar 01 - 08:16 PM

OK, forget what I said above. My advice is for you to tactfully point out that the other people are being unusually sensitive, and ask subtle questions designed to show your concern. Questions such as "Are you alright?" "Having a bad day?" or "Who pissed in your porridge this morning?"

Hope that helps.

Subject: RE: BS: Good people Bad people......Same people?
From: kendall
Date: 25 Mar 01 - 08:30 PM

How does one go about falling in love? The only time it ever happened to me it was automatic! I didn't do a damn thing to deserve it.

Subject: RE: BS: Good people Bad people......Same people?
From: guest(intruder-inactive)
Date: 25 Mar 01 - 10:11 PM

as a semi-professional curmudgeon, i'd have to disagree
not because any of you are mistaken, but because that's what a curmudgeon does

Subject: RE: BS: Good people Bad people......Same people?
From: guest(intruder-inactive)
Date: 25 Mar 01 - 10:12 PM

and sainthood is a popularity contest for religious masochists

Subject: RE: BS: Good people Bad people......Same people?
From: catspaw49
Date: 25 Mar 01 - 10:31 PM

I dunno' Spottie...........You're probably only slightly screwed up. You have to look within yourself for symptons of serious derangement and the occasional mood swing doesn't matter. I'm talking about things like inventing an entire cast of oddball characters and putting them in bizarre social situations that they consider normal. You give them all the atrocious interpersonal skills that make them undesirable and yet try to make them lovable. Or inventing fantasy places for them to go and involving others in their "lives."

Now that type of thinking and action is a sign of serious derangement and I would suggest that perhaps I send Paw, Cletus, Buford, and the Reg boys over to escort you to the Neil Young Center for the Terminally Screwed.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Good people Bad people......Same people?
From: Amos
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 12:41 AM

Thank God we have them boys ta hand, Spaw!

A

Subject: RE: BS: Good people Bad people......Same people?
From: BEK
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 02:56 AM

Well Spaw,

Send the boys after me next. I'm a WRITER.

I just listen to those voices inside my head....particularly the chocolate cookies calling and the ones that tell me not to go to work today.

Subject: RE: BS: Good people Bad people......Same people?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 03:09 AM

No real problem, Spot. You're just a cantankerous old B!"£$%d. Get another pint of Guiness, all will be well...;-)

Dave the (as you know) completely Guinessless Gnome

Subject: RE: BS: Good people Bad people......Same people?
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 08:24 AM

Hell, I'm a Gemini - I'm entitled to be AT LEAST two different people!

Subject: RE: BS: Good people Bad people......Same people?
From: LR Mole
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 09:02 AM

I'm having a Sleepy day. Tomorrow: Sneezy.>BR>LRM, going for the cheap laugh.

Subject: RE: BS: Good people Bad people......Same people?
From: LR Mole
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 09:04 AM

Ooop.

Subject: RE: BS: Good people Bad people......Same people?
From: MMario
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 09:22 AM

I think most people have mood swings- I can deal with someone having a bad day - what I can't deal with is those people who are always so "up" it curdles your stomach! (Especially when I am having a "bad day" myself. - Misery does love company - as long as it is miserable as well...)

Subject: RE: BS: Good people Bad people......Same people?
From: Bagpuss
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 09:29 AM

According to a personality theory that I have studied (and I think has great merit), personality is not a stable trait-like entity, but more about the balance of two extremes. We all exhibit both extremes, but we vary in the amount of time we spend at one extreme or the other. It's called reversal theory and I won't bore you with the details unless you are particularly interested. So let me know if you are.

Bagpuss

Subject: RE: BS: Good people Bad people......Same people?
From: Dahlin
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 09:34 AM

I work in a high school. You want to talk about mood swings. Can you say Foucault's Pendulum.

Subject: RE: BS: Good people Bad people......Same people?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 12:04 PM

MMario, I am reminded of an old Calvin and Hobbes punch line - nothing helps a bad mood like spreading it around. Vive Bill Watterson, or whatever his name is.

I am sorely tempted to try Foucault's Pendulum as amended for mood swings, that is changes of attitude etc... Anyone want to beat me to it? I'm at work so my keystrokes may be monitored...

Subject: RE: BS: Good people Bad people......Same people?
From: mousethief
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 12:18 PM

Nobody likes constructive criticism, do they?

Once, in a knock-down, drag-out argument with his mother, my stepson was told to stop being belligerent. He hollered, at the top of his lungs, "I'm not being belligerent!"

His mom couldn't stop herself -- she broke down laughing. Holding-your-sides sort of laughing.

The kid turned every shade of blue known to flesh, but eventually started laughing too.

Spot, thank your lucky stars that there are people willing to tell you the truth about yourself, and kindly too. Goodness knows it's much easier for them to just shut up and talk behind your back.

Alex

Subject: RE: BS: Good people Bad people......Same people?
From: Amos
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 12:33 PM

Ya gotta pause and reflect on the definition. Of course all people are capable of great good and great "bad". My experience has been that barring physical/organic issues, the right kinds of experience can shift the worst individual from "bad" to good. But what that experience would have to be is an interesting and broad study. Just getting some kind of a valuable product can work wonders for some folks, while others need to dig into past traumas or confess their lifetime's crimes in order to break out of dramatizing harm toward others. Some people respond well to simple sensitivity training of one kind or another, others just need to be told they are appreciated, and some have deep-seated mechanism they have no notion of and need hours of therapeutic address to sort it out.

One thing I do not think highly of is the widespread use of chemistry to modify behavior which is deemed unacceptable by narrow standards -- for example, consider the fact that in the West we are feeding our overactive minds over 30,000 pounds of Ritalin a year! This dependency on Ritalin, Prozac and other forms of chemical intervention is a practice that has gotten (to my way of thinking) out of reasonable use and become a risky fad. It is so easy to prescribe a pill, and so labor-intensive to exercise communication skills, that you can see why it has become popular. But it has really ugly premises behind it, as a widespread solution -- if you don't like their behavior, drug the buggers! That'll make 'em tractable. I also believe that if a behavioral condition has personal, experiential and cognitive sources, that burying it with psychopharmaceutical cures is no cure at all -- it just defers the pain and buries it deeper where it is likely to eventually explode. I am reminded of Ernest Hemingway's response to electro-convulsive therapy, which he was given because he suffered from depression. The unwanted side effect of memory loss, which ruined his writing skills, made him more depressed than ever, and he ended up putting a shotgum in his mouth and blowing his head open, as I understand it. Some argument for ECT; and on a less dramatic note, using chemicals to make bad people act good is a similar tragedy in the making, in my NSHO.

Regards,

A

Subject: RE: BS: Good people Bad people......Same people?
From: catspaw49
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 12:40 PM

Yeah Amos, I think you're wise to stick with the peyote.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Good people Bad people......Same people?
From: Dave Wynn
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 06:49 PM

Thanks to you all....I am now cured.....It's a miracle I tell you....While I was readin'the thread a group of people appeared and took me to a screw for the terminally placed where I was subjected to drug therapy. Thanks Guys....I don't think I could have made it without you all.

I know drugs arn't the answer but while I am takin' em things all look clear. Hey Catspaw...You described my fantasy world like you have visited....

Now I will revert to being my almost perfect , balanced self. All my future postings will be devoid of mood swing and be the epitome of clarity and focus.

Yes please Bagpuss...I am interested in this reversal therory so if you want to make it public or send me private it would be cool with me (see... nearly there already)

As for that Dave the Gnome.....what does he know anyway...

Tosp....

Subject: RE: BS: Good people Bad people......Same people?
From: Ebbie
Date: 27 Mar 01 - 01:49 AM

Someone once said that the person who is the same person to all of his/her acquaintances and friends is playing a role. Here's to the occasional bad mood! (And Spot, you're less scary when you're grumpy)

Ebbie

Subject: RE: BS: Good people Bad people......Same people?
From: Helen
Date: 27 Mar 01 - 03:51 AM

Hi all,

I don't know if this is the right place for this comment, but...after a year and a half of trying to see the good in a bullying manager who exhibits absolutely no signs of empathy, compassion, caring - or ethical benaviour - I had to reluctantly come to the conclusion that, to save myself and my health and sanity, I had to stop trying to treat him as if he was basically a "good" person who was only confused or temporarily behaving badly.

As a result of this conclusion I decided that I would have to treat him differently from other people who are trying in whatever way they can to do the right thing by others. In other words, this man's only concern is to guard his own back and whoever comes within his range is cannon fodder, fair game, etc.

I am sure that most other 'Catters will realise just how difficult it was to make this leap of judgement. I have always believed that there is some good in everyone, and you just have to find the right trigger to help them manifest it, and that there are usually understandable reasons for their behaviour. This man deliberately and coldheartedly hurt me, systematically and methodically, over a full year and a half, and no matter what I said to him or how I acted or behaved, he continued to make the same choices and show no compassion whatsoever.

This is the most difficult change of life-philosophy I have ever had to face, in my whole life.

This is one person who would have to:

a) recognise that he has a problem - (unlikely event, based on my experience of him)

b) consciously decide to do something positive to try to correct the problem - (also highly unlikely)

c) commit his time and energy to a long-term attempt to correct the problem - and it wouldn't just be a quick fix solution because it appears to me to be a very deep seated problem

Helen

Subject: RE: BS: Good people Bad people......Same people?
From: Amos
Date: 27 Mar 01 - 09:38 PM

Helen

No telling how deep! And it would depend on how the "problem" came up and was approached. I think anywone who asserts that all people are goodness and light, only sometimes in a confusion, as though they'd lost their shopping list or something, is itoo naive for words. People get into Bad Mojo, bad personae, dramtizations of bad and overwhelming identities they have been steamrollered by, obsessive preoccupation with being right instead of discovering the truth, covering up and covering over pasts of pain recieved and pain delivered ... there's a huge inventory of bad ingredients, and some of them are a lot heavier than a transient confusion. The underlying truth, I believe, is that the core creature is where the best goodness is. But that's a belief of choice on my part. I've seen people change for the better; and I have seen others whpo didn't. Come to think of it, I have even seen some folks get worse. The thing I think is really interesting is what kinds of experiences bring about positive personality shifts.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Good people Bad people......Same people?
From: Helen
Date: 28 Mar 01 - 06:11 PM

Thanks, Amos.

There may be a way to shift this man from manifesting cold-hearted and deliberate nastiness, but I never got any inkling of a desire on his part to even recognise his own nastiness or negative effects on other people. It's highly likely IMHO that some major, long-term things happened to him - probably as a child - but I can't see him changing for the better in the near future. I can't imagine a trigger big enough to make him see the need to re-think himself and his life. It's a bit of a Catch-22 in that way, because if he was physically or psychologically threatened in the extreme it would sooner or later reinforce his current way of dealing with life and other people. The bullied often resort to becoming the bullies themselves.

It is nearly a year since he bullied me out of that job, and I saw him briefly a few weeks ago. He is still adamantly defending his "rightness" and my "wrongness" in the whole situation - mostly because he is probably (IMHO again) in total denial about who he really is.

I never naively believed that everyone is goodness and light, but I used to think that I could rely on my analytical abilities to figure out what makes people tick and what I could do to be able to have reasonably useful interactions with them, or just to realise that they were on a totally different wavelength and that there was probably very little commonality between us.

This man is exceptionally good at pretending that he is sensible, and rational, and that he is *truly* trying to work towards real and worthwhile outcomes. Meanwhile it is all a major cover-up of his own abject terror of being caught out doing something or making a decision that he can't defend when scrutinised. Because he is flying by the seat of his pants in all of his managerial decisions he is constantly putting himself in jeopardy of being scrutinised. The irony is that he is a high level manager in a large local government org and gets paid very good money to make these decisions and to withstand the resulting scrutiny. (There is nothing worse than having to defend your decisions against an onslaught of local councillors and other council managers, plus members of the community and of local businesses, not to mention the risk of having it all hung out to dry in the media.) Why he has chosen to be in this job at this level I will never know!

So, because of his fear of taking risks he finds a target within his own section and takes out his frustrations and terror on the victim, bullies him/her out of the job, finds another victim, the cycle begins again.

I wasted more psychological energy than I care to think about, during most of the first year that I was there, trying to work out a way of working constructively with him. It took a long time for me to realise that he was deliberately working against me and it wasn't just communication problems.

Helen