Lyr Req: Absolutely Clear (poem by Hafiz)

Subject: 'Perfectly Clear' by Hafiz
From: GUEST,Hoot & Fidget
Date: 28 Mar 01 - 01:22 PM

Does anyone know where I can get a copy of the poem "Perfectly Clear" by the Persian Poet, Hafiz? He is also the composer of the poem "Ten Thousand Idiots".

Ten Thousand Idiots

It is always a danger to the aspirant on the path,
When one begins to believe and act,
As if the ten thousand idiots who so long ruled and lived inside,
Have all packed their bags and skipped town or died.

Subject: RE: Help: 'Perfectly Clear' by Hafiz
From: SINSULL
Date: 28 Mar 01 - 04:19 PM

I believe I have it at home in Farsi. Let me see if I have a translation as well.

Subject: RE: Help: 'Perfectly Clear' by Hafiz
From: SINSULL
Date: 29 Mar 01 - 01:33 PM

Refresh. Still digging for the book. I found a friend to translate it.

Subject: RE: Help: 'Perfectly Clear' by Hafiz
From: Bert
Date: 29 Mar 01 - 03:54 PM

Well I'll be B! SINSbaby, what are 'you' doing with books in Farsi?

Subject: RE: Help: 'Perfectly Clear' by Hafiz
From: SINSULL
Date: 29 Mar 01 - 04:19 PM

What happened to MARYMELUV???? Bert, there is just so much about me you don't know.

Subject: RE: Help: 'Perfectly Clear' by Hafiz
From: GUEST,Hoot & Fidget
Date: 29 Mar 01 - 05:06 PM

Goodness gracious I NEVER cease to be amazed at the kind of help people are willing to offer here. Much obliged SINSULL. The poem speaks to me about how one needs to avoid pushing away unhappy or frightening feelings lest we never gain the improvements they offer. (We also need to be sure not to not be locked into rumination over them.) This one in particular helps me to remember to have compassion for we all have these intense feelings from time-to-time...and perhaps that's what makes us "one".

Subject: RE: Help: 'Perfectly Clear' by Hafiz
From: katlaughing
Date: 29 Mar 01 - 05:58 PM

Are you sure of the title? I found one called "Clear Mirror." If it is the right one I will post it. Also, found some others of his here.

Thanks,

kat

Subject: RE: Help: 'Perfectly Clear' by Hafiz
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 29 Mar 01 - 07:13 PM

Congratulations to anyone who is studying Sufi literature in search of wisdom. Are you familiar with The Octagon Press in the UK? (Their books are available in the US from Sufi Studies Today.) I see they have one book by Hafiz, but I don't know whether it contains the poem you are looking for.

Also, remember, the poem may have a different title depending on who translated it.

Subject: RE: Help: 'Perfectly Clear' by Hafiz
From: Mountain Dog
Date: 29 Mar 01 - 07:49 PM

Jim is right about the link he provided being an invaluable resource for those interested in Sufi Studies. Another good place to go for information is:

The Society for Sufi Studies PO Box 43 Los Altos, CA 94022

Katlaughing, I recall you were intrigued by the Mulla Nasrudin stories that cropped up in the Forum a few weeks back? Be sure to check out Jim's link for three collections of Nasrudiniana edited by Idries Shah, as well as Shah's other works.

And, yes, Hoot and Fidget, this is an amazing group of multi-talented, multi-faceted folks...they're certainly the reason I've been hanging out here for the last several years.

Subject: RE: Help: 'Perfectly Clear' by Hafiz
From: SINSULL
Date: 29 Mar 01 - 08:27 PM

Hafiz is missing! As is my Persian dictionary. Now I have to remember who borrowed them.I lose more books this way. However, I work for and with some Iranians. One of them has to know this. Don't despair. Of course I am still waiting on word from Romania on tuning fiddles...

Subject: RE: Help: 'Perfectly Clear' by Hafiz
From: Bert
Date: 29 Mar 01 - 10:30 PM

Hi MARYMELUV, (there, is that better?) I spent 2 1/2 years in Iran and I don't think I learned more that about six words of Farsi. Everyone wanted to try out their English, and there was a revolution going on, which didn't help.

I did buy a Santur though, even if I never did learn to play it.

Bert.

Subject: RE: Help: 'Perfectly Clear' by Hafiz
From: SINSULL
Date: 29 Mar 01 - 10:54 PM

Hale shoma chatauri?

Phonetic. My keyboard can't handle Farsi and I am not clever enough to produce it in emoticons.

Subject: RE: Help: 'Perfectly Clear' by Hafiz
From: Bert
Date: 29 Mar 01 - 10:59 PM

Kheili Khuba!

Subject: RE: Help: 'Perfectly Clear' by Hafiz
From: Bert
Date: 29 Mar 01 - 11:00 PM

And "Dota Abjow"

Subject: RE: Help: 'Perfectly Clear' by Hafiz
From: SINSULL
Date: 29 Mar 01 - 11:02 PM

Yo tengo chahar baradar.

Subject: RE: Help: 'Perfectly Clear' by Hafiz
From: Bert
Date: 29 Mar 01 - 11:05 PM

I'm afraid you have exhausted my six words there SINSbaby.
I do remember directing the cab drivers though, "Dast e chab", "Dast e ras' and "Mostageen"

Subject: RE: Help: 'Perfectly Clear' by Hafiz
From: Lianagan
Date: 30 Mar 01 - 04:41 AM

Some more Sufi Studies sites:

http://www.bmf.org/main.html http://www.chatlink.com/~mushtaq/sufi.html http://www.qadiri-rifai.org/ http://www.jerrahi.org/books/secrets.htm http://www.hayatidede.org/index.html

Subject: RE: Help: 'Perfectly Clear' by Hafiz
From: GUEST,Hoot & Fidget
Date: 30 Mar 01 - 11:48 AM

Well, kat/katlaughing the title wasn't exactly right. The poem I was looking for wasn't Perfectly Clear but Absolutely Clear and goes like this.

Absolutely Clear

Don't surrender your loneliness so quickly,
Let it cut more deep,
Let it ferment and cease in you,
As few human or even devine ingrediants can.
Something missing in my heart tonight,
Made my eyes so soft,
My voice so tender,
My need of God absolutely clear

I really should amend my earlier comments about Ten Thousand Idiots. My belief is that the "Idiots" are the emotions we all feel. What the Taoists refer to as the "Ten Thousand Joys and the Ten Thousand Sorrows". And just because one attains "Enlightenment" doesn't mean the raging emotions will vanish. Merely that one can "respond" to them rather than "react".
The comment about pushing away emotions really belongs to this one.

Thanks Gang

Subject: RE: Help: 'Perfectly Clear' by Hafiz
From: SINSULL
Date: 30 Mar 01 - 12:41 PM

OK H&F. Now set it to music.

Subject: RE: Help: 'Perfectly Clear' by Hafiz
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 30 Mar 01 - 01:15 PM

Hoot&Fidget: I looked up a few of Hafiz's poems last night, and I found that, in some books, they have only numbers, not titles, and in other books, they have neither numbers nor titles. I suspect the translator or editor made up the title.

Do you know who translated the poems you have posted here? I like that phrase "skipped town or died."

Subject: RE: Help: 'Perfectly Clear' by Hafiz
From: GUEST,Hoot & Fidget
Date: 30 Mar 01 - 03:49 PM

Oops...

The line that says

"Let it ferment and cease in you,"

Should be

"Let it ferment and season you,"

As far as setting it to music well...it's an intriguing idea. One idea that comes immediatly to mind would be an interweaving of the poem with something else; perhaps an interpretation of the poem. Maybe tones a la Sheila Chandra, but I have no training and not much familiarity with the Karnatic or Hindustani traditions.

It would be nice to have accompaniement (sp?) and so maybe a simple drone on a harmonium or concertina. Or maybe just one "hollow" chord on a guitar or even a single string.

Minimalist seems to be the way to go on this.

Is this a tolerable path or am I completely from Mars?

Subject: RE: Help: 'Perfectly Clear' by Hafiz
From: GUEST,Hoot & Fidget
Date: 30 Mar 01 - 03:54 PM

Jim Dixon

I have no idea who translated "Ten Thousand Idiots". I originaly heard it from Dr Tara Brach. For more info on her go to www.erols.com/imcw

Subject: RE: Help: 'Perfectly Clear' by Hafiz
From: SINSULL
Date: 30 Mar 01 - 03:59 PM

That depends H&F...men are from Mars; women are from Venus.

Subject: RE: Help: 'Perfectly Clear' by Hafiz
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 30 Mar 01 - 07:18 PM

I found "Ten Thousand Idiots" on this web page where it is attributed to Daniel Ladinsky, and there is no mention of Hafiz. Then I found Ladinsky's work critiqued on this page. Read this with caution: it says some surprising things about Mr. Ladinsky.

In any case, fear not, Hoot&Fidget! There are other ways of finding the wisdom you are looking for.

Subject: RE: Help: 'Perfectly Clear' by Hafiz
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 30 Mar 01 - 07:51 PM

I translated Lianagan's URLs into links, with titles:

Bawa Muhaiyaddeen Fellowship

The Sufi Studies mailing list page and Traveling Camel Show No kidding! That's the real title of the web site. And it has more links than you can shake a stick at.

The Qadiri-Rifai Tariqa

The Halveti-Jerrahi Order of Dervishes

Mevlevi Order of America

Thanks, Lianagan.

Subject: RE: Help: 'Perfectly Clear' by Hafiz
From: GUEST,Hoot & Fidget
Date: 31 Mar 01 - 06:20 AM

Jim Dixon

Ah well...who'd of thunk it? That was some impressive detective work you did.

But let's consider for a moment, leaving issues of fraud aside: Is my interpretation of "Ten Thousand Idiots" any less useful? I used to think Enlightenment was a final destination where I would not be plagued with the effort of ever dealing with the emotions of anger, jealousy, exclusion, euphoria, ebuliance, infatuation, etc. I'm coming to the conclusion, via instruction, that these idiots -- oops, feelings -- and the 9,994 others (more or less) will still be present.

I'm hoping that at least part of Enlightenment means more an arrival at some sort of harmoniuos -- or at least, working -- relationship with them. I don't think it's possible to "throw them out". In fact, the effort of throwing them out would create an attachment to them, possibly greater than before. Not to mention all the issues surrounding denial.

As for the alledged fraud of Daniel Ladinsky; if true I guess that's the Karma he has to deal with. If not, than it's Murat Nemet-Nejat's Karma.

My Thanks in either event.