UPS and guitars

Subject: UPS and guitars
From: kendall
Date: 01 Apr 01 - 04:45 PM

Last week, I returned from Florida and I shipped my guitar via UPS ground transport. When I received it, I inspected it, and found that it had been damaged. Although it was lock in a very tough case, and the padlock was still in place, it appears to have been removed from the case and dropped. Estimated for repairs,$250.00. Anyone else have a horror story?

Subject: RE: UPS and guitars
From: Mike Byers
Date: 01 Apr 01 - 05:16 PM

I quit using UPS about two years ago. Despite heavy crating and heavy-duty, professional packing, almost everything I shipped was damaged or destroyed by UPS. I've had my crates returned with tire tracks across them, and I've actually had 1/2-inch steel screws on a piece inside a plywood and 2x4 crate broken. Collecting on the insurance was difficult and time-consuming. I now use the USPS and Federal Express, and have my own van for delivering large items. A friend with a computer company had $25,000 worth of computers destroyed by UPS (tire tracks across the crates again) and the company tried to claim the computers were "incorrectly packed" (their usual line of BS). He took 'em to court and won, but I don't have time to fool with a company like this. I will never use UPS again, but have had good success with the USPS (as long as your items don't have to go through Chicago, where they seem to break everything). Collecting on damages from the USPS takes about a month. Federal Express is not cheap, but they're fast and professional and damage claims are handled quickly and with very good service. At least, that's been my experience.

Subject: RE: UPS and guitars
From: kendall
Date: 01 Apr 01 - 06:54 PM

If they mess with me, I will put a sign on the face of my guitar saying, "DAMAGE BY UPS" with an arrow pointing to the crack. Should look great on TV.

Subject: RE: UPS and guitars
From: Justa Picker
Date: 01 Apr 01 - 07:14 PM

I recently took delivery of an old vintage Martin. The dealer absolutely refused to ship it UPS as he'd said he'd had "problems" with shipments via UPS. It was shipped Fedex Overnight Priority overnight (via air). It arrived completely in tact and in one piece. (Phew!!!)

Subject: RE: UPS and guitars
From: bigchuck
Date: 01 Apr 01 - 07:22 PM

A member of the Flatpick list who works in a rr yard recently reported that he has seen UPS trailers dropped as far as 10 feet when being unloaded from their container cars. I have seen our local driver drop a guitar box 3 feet to the ground upon unloading. Oops.

Subject: RE: UPS and guitars
From: Bert
Date: 02 Apr 01 - 12:55 AM

Another ploy they use to reneg on paying damages is to say that they are not the shipping agent. The little shops that take your packages and your money have nothing to do with UPS, they are just agents. So you have to take your claim to a rinky dink little store which by now is usually thousands of miles away.

Subject: RE: UPS and guitars
From: RWilhelm
Date: 02 Apr 01 - 01:04 AM

I have used UPS and FedEx as an alternative to flying with my guitar. I put the guitar in the case and the case in a cardboard box surrounded by styrofoam. I seems like baggage handlers everywhere cannot resist an instrument case and they are all Peter Townsend fans.

Subject: RE: UPS and guitars
From: Margo
Date: 02 Apr 01 - 01:14 AM

My guitar teacher told me a story about UPS destroying a guitar he had shipped to him and this was about 20 years ago! Same kind of story told - it was packaged properly but someone did indeed open it and ruin it. He said he didn't have the money to take them to court and never collected for damages. It looks like they haven't cleaned up their act. I will avoid them from now on when it comes to shipping precious instruments. When he told me about it I thought it had to be a fluke thing but this really gives his story creedence with me..... Margo

Subject: RE: UPS and guitars
From: GUEST,dsfsdf
Date: 02 Apr 01 - 01:28 AM

dfrdsafrdsf

Subject: RE: UPS and guitars
From: Sorcha
Date: 02 Apr 01 - 01:33 AM

'scuse me, but that means......??What?

Subject: RE: UPS and guitars
From: Amergin
Date: 02 Apr 01 - 04:41 AM

Reminds me of Tom Paxton's Thank You, Republic Airlines.....

Subject: RE: UPS and guitars
From: GUEST,TomK
Date: 02 Apr 01 - 01:09 PM

I was just at a performance of the band The Paperboys and one of the players had an accordian that looked pretty banged up with duct tape all over it and a sign on it saying NORTHWEST AIRLINES SUCKS! So watch out for airfright too I guess. Tom

Subject: RE: UPS and guitars
From: GUEST,Timothy Cameron
Date: 03 Apr 01 - 12:50 AM

A few months ago, a little vintage guitar shop here in Toronto shipped an acoustic to a customer in the States. At the same time, somebody totally unrelated to this guitar shop shipped an electric (in a MUCH smaller box) from Canada to the US. Guess what ? The MENSA members at UPS (pronounced "OOPS") decided to randomly open the two boxes to inspect the contents, and put the electric guitar in the acoustic box, and SQUEEEEEZED the acoustic into the electric box. The vintage guitar shop gets a call from their customer, who's very nice, and thanks them for the Telecaster, but it wasn't quite what he was expecting. At first, the guitar shop thinks they mixed up their shipping labels, but are miffed when they have no record of this particular Telecaster ever having been in the store. A couple of days later, the store receives a call from somebody in the States asking if they're missing an acoustic guitar. This person received the acoustic, but it was severely damaged from being forced into a box too small. Brilliant.

Subject: RE: UPS and guitars
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Apr 01 - 11:20 AM

Okay, I'm convinced on the negative side of this.

After reading this, I wouldn't ship goatcheese via UPS.

But that leaves us still looking for alternatives.

Can anyone tell about carriers with track records of successful instrument delivery?

And, which is better, surface or air?

Does it make a difference?

This could be really good stuff to know, says me.

Subject: RE: UPS and guitars
From: GUEST,Mike Byers
Date: 03 Apr 01 - 11:36 AM

I've had good success shipping fragile things (glass and neon tubing) with both Federal Express and the USPS; I believe Deering ships their banjos with Federal Express. I don't use regular air freight; I'm fairly far from an airport and have had bad luck with it in the past. If I were shipping guitars on a regular basis, I'd want not only a hard-shell case but also a crate made of something like plywood and 2x4s to put the case in, with enough packing in the crate to insure the case can't move around. The late Gamble Rogers had a steel case for his guitar and he packed the guitar inside the case with socks and underwear. This worked for him (well enough that he even checked his guitar as baggage on the dreaded Eastern Airlines). I think the key is to insure the guitar is well-padded, but not so tightly packed that it puts pressure on the guitar, inside it's case. Scrap pieces of foam rubber--the sort of stuff that's used by upholstery shops--is good for this. But if you've got something very valuable, there are companies that ship nothing but valuables and artwork. They're expensive but quite good for certain items such as oil paintings, sculpture, etc.

Subject: RE: UPS and guitars
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Apr 01 - 11:50 AM

Goodstuff Mike,

I especially liked the socks and underwear idea.

Strangeworld, the next time I employ your suggestion, may be to Jacksonville, FL.

Using a technique passed down from one of the best human beings who ever walked in socks.

And, who was, I believe, was a resident of that area.

Subject: RE: UPS and guitars
From: Bert
Date: 03 Apr 01 - 11:50 AM

One trick is to pack it so that it doesn't look like a guitar. Put your guitar case inside a custom made cardboard box. This will give you room for an extra layer of padding. Also make sure that the finished package looks cheap and crappy. No one will then bother with it and short of it being run over by a truck it should survive.

Subject: RE: UPS and guitars
From: enkd
Date: 03 Apr 01 - 01:06 PM

I'll be accepting delivery either this evening or tomorrow of a guitar shipped from Kansas to Portland, OR via UPS Ground.
This thread is making me more than a little nervous.
I'll report back with my experiences...
Now that I think about it, I hope that UPS GROUND refers to the mode of transport, not the condition of the instrument on arrival...

Subject: RE: UPS and guitars
From: SINSULL
Date: 03 Apr 01 - 01:18 PM

We ship Networking equipment via FEDEX with general success. And refuse to ship UPS even if a customer requests it. Too many problems.

Subject: RE: UPS and guitars
From: enkd
Date: 04 Apr 01 - 07:34 PM

Well, I just took delivery of a guitar via UPS ground, with no (apparent) problems. It was in a plastic hardsell SKB case, which was in a cardboard box filled with styrofoam peanuts (mmm... peanuts...)
I am a wee bit surprised, however, that despite the fact that it was insured for a significant amount of money, they left it outside my front door, in full view of the street, and didn't require a signature. If I were a less honest person, I would have hidden it beneath the floorboards and denied receipt...
UPS Tracking site still shows "in transit". I wonder where it's going next.

Subject: RE: UPS and guitars
From: kendall
Date: 05 Apr 01 - 07:45 PM

I heard a rumor that UPS and FEDX are going to merge. The new company will be called Fedup.

Subject: RE: UPS and guitars
From: Bluesman and kde
Date: 05 Apr 01 - 10:59 PM

I have a horror story about UPS that I'm reminded of all the time. I went into my local music store one day, picked up an Alvarez Bluesmaster acoustic, and it was the acoustic of my dreams. Perfect tone, everything. I bought it, didn't take it with me, but decided to send it back to the factory to put the electronics in. The store called me a few days later and told me that UPS had damaged the guitar. The whole box end of the guitar was smashed beyond any sort of repair. They ordered another with the electronics in it, but this guitar does not have the tone the other had, even though it does sound great. I wouldn't use UPS now, even if I had anvils to ship. They would find a way to screw it up if I did. By the way, it was shipped in the same case it came to the dealer in. It had to have been dropped from a fair height to demolish it like it did......Jim

Subject: RE: UPS and guitars
From: GUEST,Midchuck upstairs
Date: 06 Apr 01 - 07:25 AM

I must be living in a fools' paradise, because I've had a number of guitars shipped to me and by me by UPS with no trauma yet.

Of course, anytime you ship a guitar, by any medium, you want to take the essential precautions:

- Ship it in a hard case, an archtopped hard case if at all possible.

- Detune the strings.

- If it isn't a really snug fit in the case, pad around it with rags or whatever. (No plastic touching the finish!)

- Pad with more rags underneath and above the headstock, to ameliorate whiplash effects.

- If the end pin can be removed, take it out and put it in the accessory case. It acts as a splitting wedge if the instrument gets dropped or set down hard on its big end.

- Pack the case in a box, with plastic peanuts or wadded up newspaper to immobilize it in the box.

- Be wasteful of tape in sealing the box. Taping along the edges of the box to reinforce them is a good idea.

- Don't bother marking it "fragile." It's as likely to be considered a challenge as a warning.

Having made that brag, I will probably ship FedEx or USPS next time, on the theory that I've used up my luck and may have angered the gods.

Peter.

Subject: RE: UPS and guitars
From: kendall
Date: 06 Apr 01 - 08:08 AM

My local music store, Buckdancers Choice, always uses UPS and have never had a problem. In fact, the owner recommended UPS to me. He is somewhat chagrined that they broke my guitar. He's even fixing it at a discount!

Subject: RE: UPS and guitars
From: Gypsy
Date: 06 Apr 01 - 11:35 AM

If you do use UPS, go for nextday, or 2 day air. Costs, but they tend to be more careful. And have less time to screw things up. Any instrument that we order, we insist on the minimum of 3 day air, for any shipper. Not gonna have one of MY instruments kicking about in a warehouse over the weekend!

Subject: RE: UPS and guitars
From: Bert
Date: 07 Apr 01 - 12:43 AM

UPS handling systems consist of conveyors moving along at a fair clip. When the package reaches the end of the conveyor it goes flying off the end into a helical chute.

Well that's the theory, but unfortunately this chute is so poorly designed that the package, instead of being gently turned, goes SMACK into the side wall of the chute and then drops down.

I know this because I used to design pachage handling systems. I designed a more efficient, gentler chute, but the company I was working for wasn't interested, neither was UPS when I tried to sell it to them.

When you pack your guitar, if you are not confident enough in your packing to throw the thing down a flight of stairs, then you haven't packed it well enough.

Bert.

Subject: RE: UPS and guitars
From: Mike Byers
Date: 07 Apr 01 - 08:29 AM

It's sort of interesting that UPS doesn't tell you about "the chute", not to mention dropping containers ten feet. If you knew about this, you might have a chance of designing a package that would survive. Maybe. I always figured that they had a conveyor belt with adjustable, spiked rollers, and when the package traveled down the belt the clearance between the rollers would automatically be set for about six inches smaller than the package... How about it, Bert? Ever design anything like this? If I'd had known about the UPS system several years ago when I worked for an engineering company, I could have saved a bunch of time and money I spent on lab testing. Instead of running harmonic searches, shock and vibration tests, I could have just shipped the parts around via UPS. Anything that survived would have to be a pretty good design.