Lyr Add: Jolly Fisherman

Subject: Lyr Add: JOLLY FISHERMAN (from Creighton)
From: radriano
Date: 03 Apr 01 - 04:58 PM

This version is from Helen Creighton's Songs and Ballads from Nova Scotia, with notes included in the book. I have not shown it here but in the book there is a partial last verse. Just wondering if anyone knows what that full last verse is.

In a previous thread on fishing songs from Ireland, Liam's Brother mentions that there is a version of the Jolly Fisherman in Sam Henry's Songs of the People. I can't find my copy of Henry's book - I wonder if it's the same song.


JOLLY FISHERMAN
Songs & Ballads from Nova Scotia, Helen Creighton, ed.
Sung by Mr. Richard Hartlan, South-East Passage


Come all you jolly fishermen that does a-fishing go
Beware of the cold nor-westers and the stormy winds that blow
It was in the winter season, on the western Banks we lay
On board of the old Veronia, oh, I'll never forget the day

It was stormy in the morning just as the dawn of light
When we went out to haul our trawls, we returned again all right
"Bait up again, my jolly boys," I heard our captain say
"It's halibut here it's to be had, we must haul again today"

"Oh, three can go in a dory," said he, "If it comes the worst do blow
We'll pay down buoy line astern, adrift you never can go."
Oh, three of us went in a dory and away us boys did go
The wind south-east a breezing up and every sign of snow

Oh, we got our trawls all right and might have reached her too
But when we got our lights in sight we broke our oars in two
I overboard an anchor, thinking to ride it out
But our buoy line soon parted for I tell you it was not stout

My dory mate he kept her straight while the other one kept her free
For if we'd a got a broadside to it capsized we would be
My dory mate he kept her straight while the other one kept her free
While I rigged a drug of halibut and cast it in the sea*

Oh, early the next morning we took our turn about
And pulling away to leeward and keeping a sharp look out
"Sail oh! Sail oh! my jolly boys. The joyful bells do ring,"
There lay the old Veronia and to Williams we convened


*This was to cover the water with oil to make it quiet beside the boat

Note: Mr. Hartlan says the incident related took place off the western Banks. He knew the schooner when a boy, and distinctly remembers a time when she was in Halifax for two winters. The song was probably composed by members of the crew.

Richard

Subject: Tune Add: JOLLY FISHERMAN
From: radriano
Date: 04 Apr 01 - 11:55 AM

I located my copy of Songs of the People and this is a different Jolly Fisherman. An ABC for the song is posted below - if anyone would like a GIF my e-mail is listed at Mudcat Resources.


X:1
T:Jolly Fisherman, The
M:2/4
L:1/8
S:Songs & Ballads from Nova Scotia, Helen Creighton, ed.
K:D
D | FF ED | ED B,A, | DD EF | G2 zF |
F2 FF | ED FG | "hold"A3 A | BA FA | D2 E>E |
F>F E>D | E>D A,>A, | DD EF | G3F | F2 DD |
EE FG | A3A | B/2B/2A FA | D3 ||


Richard

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Jolly Fisherman
From: GUEST,Roll&GO-C
Date: 04 Apr 01 - 12:00 PM

I was just looking at Songs & Ballads of Nova Scotia and I'm also curious is someone can turn up the missing lines, or a substitute for the repeated line in verse 5.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Jolly Fisherman
From: Ringer
Date: 04 Apr 01 - 12:24 PM

I know a different song (from the clubs, though I think I remember it having once been introduced as a Swan Arcade song):

We are 3 jolly fishermen (x3)
While the merry, merry bells do ring.

Ch:

Make hase, make haste, you'll be too late.
One fish, my dear, I cannot wait.
For my fine fry of herring, my bonny, silver herring
Mind how you sell them, While the merry, merry bells do ring

We cast our nets into the rocks...

We've white & speckled belly'd 'uns...

We sell them 3 for fourpence...

V3 always used to make my daughter giggle.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Jolly Fisherman
From: MMario
Date: 04 Apr 01 - 12:38 PM

I sent an NWC file of Richard's abc to Joe.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Jolly Fisherman
From: radriano
Date: 04 Apr 01 - 03:03 PM

Thanks, MMario. I suppose I could have sent the ABC (I'm pretty sure he can deal with those) to Joe myself but I didn't think of it.

I should probably post that partial verse too. Tomorrow.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Jolly Fisherman
From: MMario
Date: 04 Apr 01 - 03:07 PM

yes - joe can deal with abc's - but I matched the lyrics to the notes so he woulldn't have the extra step.

co-operation rules! (and saves people work!)

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Jolly Fisherman
From: radriano
Date: 05 Apr 01 - 06:13 PM

Refresh. I'm not ready to give up on finding that verse just yet.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Jolly Fisherman
From: Joe Offer
Date: 31 May 20 - 12:31 AM

Did the Copper Family sing this one? Sounds like their style.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Jolly Fisherman
From: Reinhard
Date: 31 May 20 - 12:39 PM

Roud has only four entries for Jolly Fisherman (#1827). All refer to Helen Creighton.

I don't have any recording of this song, neither from the Copper Family nor from any other singer.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Jolly Fisherman
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 31 May 20 - 02:15 PM

Good hunch Joe.

"The Bold Fisherman has also been in the repertoire of the Copper Family for a long time, but they (Bob, John, Jill and Lynne Copper and Jon Dudley) only recorded it in October 1987 for their LP Coppersongs: A Living Tradition. Bob Copper and his grandsons Mark, Andy and Sean Barrat sang it again on their CD Coppersongs 3: The Legacy Continues."

https://mainlynorfolk.info/copperfamily/songs/theboldfisherman.html

Sincerely,

Gargoyle

Facinating resource to while away a Sunday

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Jolly Fisherman
From: GUEST,Starship
Date: 31 May 20 - 02:38 PM

Radriano, it's shown on p.59 of the following link. I don't know what lyric specificall you're looking for.


https://books.google.ca/books?id=aiQ7UAwQgDUC&pg=PR8&lpg=PR8&dq=Jolly+Fisherman+in+Sam+Henry%27s+Songs+of+the+People&source=bl&o

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Jolly Fisherman
From: Reinhard
Date: 31 May 20 - 03:02 PM

Bot Gargoyle, The Bold Fisherman is a completely different song from the one Joe asked for. Both just have remotely similar titles.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Jolly Fisherman
From: Reinhard
Date: 31 May 20 - 03:12 PM

The Traditional Ballad Index entries for the two Jolly Fishermen:

Jolly Fisherman (I)

DESCRIPTION: With a storm coming up, Captain Williams of Veronia sends a dory after halibut. Oars are lost and a buoy line parts. To save the dory, they cast halibut oil on the water and bale with their sou'westers until they are picked up next morning by Veronia.
AUTHOR: unknown
EARLIEST DATE: 1932 (Creighton-NovaScotia)
KEYWORDS: rescue fishing sea ship storm sailor
FOUND IN: Canada(Mar)
REFERENCES (1 citation):
Creighton-NovaScotia 125, "Jolly Fisherman" (1 text, 1 tune)
ST CrNS125 (Partial)
Roud #1827
NOTES [8 words]: This song is item dD47 in Laws's Appendix II. - BS
File: CrNS125

Jolly Fisherman (II), The

DESCRIPTION: The singer says he is a fisherman, and "Fish just like men I've often caught -- crabs, gudgeon, poor John Codfish." He compares various sorts of people to various fish --- e.g. "false friends to eels" and the lawyer like a pike striking
AUTHOR: unknown
EARLIEST DATE: 1936 (Sam Henry collection)
KEYWORDS: work fishing nonballad
FOUND IN: Ireland
REFERENCES (1 citation):
SHenry H639, p. 59, "The Jolly Fisherman" (1 text, 1 tune)
Roud #13361
NOTES [16 words]: Sam Henry claimed this was once a popular song around 1800, but gives no supporting evidence. - RBW
File: HHH639

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Jolly Fisherman
From: Reinhard
Date: 31 May 20 - 03:15 PM

And the Copper Family's Bold Fisherman:

Bold Fisherman, The [Laws O24]

DESCRIPTION: The fisherman comes to court the lady. Having tied up his boat, he takes her hand and removes his coat. This reveals three golden chains. Se
eing that he is rich, the lady asks forgiveness for calling him a fisherman. The two go home and are married
AUTHOR: unknown
EARLIEST DATE: before 1839 (broadside, Bodleian Harding B 11(3114))
KEYWORDS: fishing marriage courting money
FOUND IN: US(NE) Canada(Mar,Newf) Britain(England(Lond,South,West),Scotland(Aber))
REFERENCES (18 citations):
Laws O24, "The Bold Fisherman"
Greig #179, p. 2, "The Rover of the Sea" (1 text)
Broadwood/Maitland, p. 110, "As I Walked Out" (1 text, 1 tune)
Butterworth/Dawney, p. 5, "The Bold Fisherman" (1 text, 1 tune)
Wiltshire-WSRO Ox 282, "Bold Fisherman" (1 text)
CopperSeason, pp. 254-255, "The Fisherman" (1 text, 1 tune)
RoudBishop #21, "The Bold Fisherman" (1 text, 1 tune)
GreigDuncan4 834, "The Rover of the Sea" (1 text)
Reeves-Circle 12, "The Bold Fisherman" (2 texts)
KarpelesCrystal 62, "The Bold Fisherman" (1 text, 1 tune)
VaughanWilliams/Palmer, #22, "The Fisherman" (1 text, 1 tune)
Flanders/Olney, pp. 218-219, "The Bold Fisherman" (1 text, 1 tune)
Creighton/Senior, pp. 112-114, "The Bold Fisherman" (1 text plus 1 fragment, 1 tune)
Peacock, pp. 603-604, "The Young Fisherman" (1 text, 1 tune)
Leach, pp. 692-693, "The Bold Fisherman" (1 text)
PBB, "The Royal Fisherman" (1 text)
Sharp-100E 42, "The Bold Fisherman" (1 text, 1 tune)
DT 483, FISHBOLD*
Roud #291
RECORDINGS:
Harry Cox, "The Bold Fisherman" (on Voice01)
Leonard Hulan, "The Young Fisherman" (on PeacockCDROM) [one verse only]
BROADSIDES:
Bodleian, Harding B 11(3114), "The Bold Fisherman," J. Catnach (London), 1813-1838; also Johnson Ballads 596; Harding B 11(840)=B 11(841), "The Bold Fisherman," H. Such (London), 1863-1885
NOTES [165 words]: The notes in Butterworth/Dawney point out that several scholars see a link to the legend of the Fisher King. I frankly don't see it. The point of the legend of the Fisher King is not the fishing, nor the wealth, but the unhealed injury. - RBW
Since there are readings of this ballad "as a medieval allegory symbolizing the mystical union of Christ (the fisher king) and the soul" (Reeves-Circle citing Lucy Broadwood), note that the broadsides do not follow that line. Bodleian Harding B 11(840), for example, has "He took her by the lily white hand, It was his full intent; Then he untied her morning gown, And gently laid her down, There she beheld a chain of gold Hang dangling three times round." - BS
Palmer says that Broadwood also saw Gnostic symbolism in the song. Symbols similar to those in Gnosticism there may be, but the song cannot possibly be Gnostic, since Gnosticism was extinct well before the Norman Conquest and never made much progress in Latin Christendom anyway. - RBW
Last updated in version 5.0

File: LO24