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Lyr Req: Cadgwith Anthem

DigiTrad:
BEAUTY OF KASHMIR
BEAVER DAM ROAD
CADGWITH ANTHEM
COME FILL UP YOUR GLASSES (Robbers)
THE CANDLEFORD ANTHEM


Related threads:
(origins) Origins: Cadgwith Anthem (54)
Cadgwith Anthem - what's that flower? (57)
Lyr Req: Cadgwith Anthem (from Steeleye Span) (7)


Nemesis 14 Apr 01 - 01:20 PM
Micca 14 Apr 01 - 02:10 PM
Roughyed 14 Apr 01 - 04:53 PM
Keith A of Hertford 14 Apr 01 - 08:07 PM
Wotcha 15 Apr 01 - 12:16 AM
Liz the Squeak 15 Apr 01 - 03:20 AM
Roughyed 15 Apr 01 - 03:47 AM
Lanfranc 15 Apr 01 - 05:48 AM
Micca 15 Apr 01 - 11:31 AM
Liz the Squeak 15 Apr 01 - 12:28 PM
Lanfranc 15 Apr 01 - 07:05 PM
Stewie 15 Apr 01 - 08:52 PM
Joan from Wigan 16 Apr 01 - 03:29 AM
Joan from Wigan 16 Apr 01 - 03:45 AM
LR Mole 16 Apr 01 - 01:05 PM
Snuffy 16 Apr 01 - 06:27 PM
Noreen 21 Apr 01 - 04:29 PM
bradfordian 21 Apr 01 - 05:24 PM
Noreen 22 Apr 01 - 01:23 PM
Joan from Wigan 22 Apr 01 - 03:15 PM
Geoff the Duck 22 Apr 01 - 05:02 PM
GUEST,Amy in Delhi. 26 Apr 11 - 12:43 PM
Tradsinger 26 Apr 11 - 01:14 PM
Brian May 26 Apr 11 - 02:14 PM
GUEST,Gerry Bates 13 Oct 11 - 07:26 AM
GUEST,Katie 22 Nov 11 - 09:06 AM
Artful Codger 22 Nov 11 - 07:31 PM
GUEST,Longbeard 23 Nov 11 - 01:32 PM
Artful Codger 23 Nov 11 - 05:27 PM
GUEST,Longbeard 24 Nov 11 - 02:57 PM
Artful Codger 24 Nov 11 - 07:29 PM
GUEST,Longbeard 25 Nov 11 - 05:29 PM
Artful Codger 26 Nov 11 - 02:32 PM
GUEST,odonian 06 Dec 15 - 03:25 AM
GUEST,Vlad 111 11 Jul 16 - 04:53 AM
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Subject: Lyr req: Caves/Beauty of Kashmir?
From: Nemesis
Date: 14 Apr 01 - 01:20 PM

Have only ever heard this in public, never on a recording - does anyone know lyrics/artistes??

Thanks a lot,

Hille


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE CADGWITH ANTHEM
From: Micca
Date: 14 Apr 01 - 02:10 PM

Do you mean this one??

The Cadgwith Anthem

Come fill up your glasses and let us be merry,
For the moonlight is shining all over the hill.

As we roam through the valleys,
Where the lilies and the roses,
And the beauty of Kashmir lay drooping his head.
Then away, then away, then away
To the caves in yonder mountain Where the robbers retreat.

We come from the mountains, our pistols are loaded,
For to rob and to plunder it is our intent.

Hush, hush in the distance there's footsteps approaching,
"Stand, stand and deliver!", it is our watch cry.

Your gold and your silver, your life if resisting.
We'll laugh at your agonies, we'll scorn at your pain.


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Subject: RE: Lyr req: Caves/Beauty of Kashmir?
From: Roughyed
Date: 14 Apr 01 - 04:53 PM

Steeleye Span did this is four part harmony on 'All Around My Hat' album. Great song for a singaround cos the harmonies are manifold.


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Subject: RE: Lyr req: Caves/Beauty of Kashmir?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Apr 01 - 08:07 PM

Yes, a great sing, But the message?


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Subject: RE: Lyr req: Caves/Beauty of Kashmir?
From: Wotcha
Date: 15 Apr 01 - 12:16 AM

'tis very popular in Cornwall: the Cadgwith "Fishermen" still sing it on Friday nights .... Maybe something to do with the wreckers and smugglers who made such a good living in days of yore: note Admiral Benbow of Penzance.
"Stand and deliver" is the command offered by the highwaymen of the 18th Century, so some other tradition is involved here too.
Cheers,
Brian


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Subject: RE: Lyr req: Caves/Beauty of Kashmir?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 15 Apr 01 - 03:20 AM

It's basically just a song about highway men, a bit like Whiskey in the Jar, which also makes about as much sense as a goldfish in a privet bush.

LTS


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Subject: RE: Lyr req: Caves/Beauty of Kashmir?
From: Roughyed
Date: 15 Apr 01 - 03:47 AM

Apart from the floater verse about carriages a-rolling, Whiskey in the Jar seems a pretty straightforward story of robbery and betrayal. I think what's interesting about the Cadgwith Anthem (I see it's on the main site under Beauty of Kashmir by the way) is that it seems to be a song from inside a community of robbers/higwaymen but it gives a fairly romanticised picture of the way of life.

It feels to me like a song that has been written by some antiquarian somewhere. Not that it detracts from it's beauty, I just find that sort of thing interesting. Of course it could have been written by some pot-poet in Seven Dials like half of our traditional songs.


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Subject: RE: Lyr req: Caves/Beauty of Kashmir?
From: Lanfranc
Date: 15 Apr 01 - 05:48 AM

Another recording can be found on Robin Dransfield's "Tidewave" album.

As to its origin, I've always had a suspicion that it might have something to do with a Cornish soldier returning from duty on the NorthWest Frontier of India. Why else bring in "the beauty of Kashmir", which is as remote a concept for a Cornish highwayman to come up with as I can think of.

Cornwall is not noted for "caves in yonder mountains" - caves in cliffs, yes, in mountains, not that I know of. Relocate the narrative to refer to Kashmiri brigands, and it seems to me to make more sense.

Except for the "stand and deliver" which doesn't sound very Kashmiri, but could be a later addition.

The tune has a hymn-like quality, and you could almost hear a Salvation Army band playing it, were it not for the rising cadence on the last "away", which is more reminiscent of the a capella carol tradition of South Yorkshire.

If only we could impose version control on songs, "Mudsoft Sourcesafe for Folksongs"!


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Subject: RE: Lyr req: Caves/Beauty of Kashmir?
From: Micca
Date: 15 Apr 01 - 11:31 AM

Alan,I always thought the "Beauty of Kashmir" is a botanical reference...a kind of Rose??? but apart from that I see what you mean...


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Subject: RE: Lyr req: Caves/Beauty of Kashmir?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 15 Apr 01 - 12:28 PM

There's a village in Dorset called Cashmoor..... very nice pub.

And why is the beauty of Kashmir drooping HIS head.... is there something deeper about this song than we have been lead to believe? Was it perhaps the first noted incidence of a gay Cornish infantryman, daring to speak love's name??

LTS *BG*


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Subject: RE: Lyr req: Caves/Beauty of Kashmir?
From: Lanfranc
Date: 15 Apr 01 - 07:05 PM

A quick search with Google came up with 108 hits for "beauty+kashmir"!

None that I could say was particularly relevant to this discussion, except that there is a version of the song where it's "its" not "his" head that's drooping, thus avoiding Liz's gay Cornishman!

More research needed!


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Subject: RE: Lyr req: Caves/Beauty of Kashmir?
From: Stewie
Date: 15 Apr 01 - 08:52 PM

Thread creep: this reminded me of a totally unrelated broadside sung by Jean Ward on an album with Jon and Mike Raven 'Kate of Coalbrookdale' (Argo ZFB 29)- a delightfully flowery lovesong called 'The Rose of Cashmere', set to the tune of 'The Waters of Tyne'.

By thy footsteps of lightness
That mock the wild deer
I love thee, I love thee
My Rose of Cashmere

As Jon Raven noted, the song might well have been happier in polite society and, in time and style, shared a place with 'The Pirate's Serenade'. Quite lovely all the same.

--Stewie.


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Subject: RE: Lyr req: Caves/Beauty of Kashmir?
From: Joan from Wigan
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 03:29 AM

'Beauty of Kashmir' is in the DT - but only two verses. Thanks, Micca, for the other two. And for anyone interested in the aforementioned 'Rose of Cashmere', a gif of the sheet music can be found at (sorry, I will learn to do blue clickies one day): http://www.lib.unc.edu/music/cam/ns2/ns2-7p2.GIF

Joan


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Subject: RE: Lyr req: Caves/Beauty of Kashmir?
From: Joan from Wigan
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 03:45 AM

Forget that link! Oh for the facility to amend incorrect items after they're posted! 'The Rose of Cashmere' is included in a list of available sheet music on: http://www.lib.unc.edu/music/eam/ns2/ns2.html
Scroll down the list of items and it will give you two links, one for the cover and one for page 2.

Joan


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Subject: RE: Lyr req: Caves/Beauty of Kashmir?
From: LR Mole
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 01:05 PM

The Beauty of Cashmere is only exceeded by the Suavity of Crewneck and the Security of Turtlenecks. No sweat.


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Subject: RE: Lyr req: Caves/Beauty of Kashmir?
From: Snuffy
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 06:27 PM

There are actually three versions in the DT
  1. Beauty of Kashmir
  2. The Candleford Anthem
  3. Come Fill Up Your Glasses (Robbers)

    As the Cornish also indulged in a bit of wrecking, could the "Beauty of Kashmir" have been a ship they lured onto the rocks?

    Wassail! V


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Subject: RE: Lyr req: Caves/Beauty of Kashmir?
From: Noreen
Date: 21 Apr 01 - 04:29 PM

I have been assured that 'the Beauty of Kashmir' refers to a rose, and droops its head.


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Subject: RE: Lyr req: Caves/Beauty of Kashmir?
From: bradfordian
Date: 21 Apr 01 - 05:24 PM

And I thought the Beauty of Kashmir was a horse! But again thanks to Micca, having heard the song some while ago I was taken with it but felt shy of singing it as there were only the two verses. I shall now incorporate this into my "repotoire". Watch out the Yorkshire meet! Cheers Baz.


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Subject: RE: Lyr req: Caves/Beauty of Kashmir?
From: Noreen
Date: 22 Apr 01 - 01:23 PM

In 37-part harmony at the Jug...


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Subject: RE: Lyr req: Caves/Beauty of Kashmir?
From: Joan from Wigan
Date: 22 Apr 01 - 03:15 PM

The Open Door Folk Club always use it as their closing song, and the harmonies are out of this world...


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Subject: RE: Lyr req: Caves/Beauty of Kashmir?
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 22 Apr 01 - 05:02 PM

Just a quick threadcreep:-
Baz / Bradfordian. You make a reference to the Yorkshire Gathering.
Are we to expect you at the Jug, and if so do you intend to camp?
Mrs.Duck is coordinating the event and would like people to book field/beergarden space for tents/campers etc. you can send a "mudcat mail" message to let us know.
Apart from that, I am from Bradford, although now located in Pontefract. I am just wodering if you might be a Baz who I know?
Quack
Geoff the Duck (aka Gilday)


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cadgwith Anthem
From: GUEST,Amy in Delhi.
Date: 26 Apr 11 - 12:43 PM

I, too, have been long intrigued by the reference to 'the Beauty of Kashmir' in this song. It seems such an out-of-context reference to 18th century English highway robbery, and as I live in North India and have been to Kashmir 30plus times, I really want to understand the meaning of it. As someone mentioned earlier, the reference to highway brigands and caves in mountains is certainly more Himalayan than Cornish. I always assumed the "beauty'' to be a young Kashmiri Prince (?!) (most Kashmiris are stunning to look at), but then couldn't make it make sense with the rest of the song.
It also occurred to me that back in the 60's and 70's, many well-known musicians, artists and writers stayed in Srinagar's houseboats on Dal Lake as part of the hippy trail and were heavily charmed by its extraordinary beauty and unique culture/language. Does anyone know if Steeleye Span headed that way in those days? I feel there's a definite message 'hidden in plain sight' in this song, and would love to know what it is!
Thanks folks.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cadgwith Anthem
From: Tradsinger
Date: 26 Apr 11 - 01:14 PM

I am sure there has been a long thread on this already, tracing it back. Note that in Cadgwith itself, they sing 'beautiful Kashmir", not "the beauty of Kashmir".

Tradsinger


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cadgwith Anthem
From: Brian May
Date: 26 Apr 11 - 02:14 PM

I must confess that I thought 'The beauty of Kashmir' was horse!!!

Waiting to to 'Stand and deliver' the horse was drooping its head - seemed to make some sort of sense.

I love these threads . . .


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cadgwith Anthem
From: GUEST,Gerry Bates
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 07:26 AM

From the ambience of the song I always imagined that it was the fine woollen cloth called cashmere that was referred to, not the Indian state of Kashmir. It made more sense!

Looking at the preceding line, it makes even more sense if it's a flower. However, I can find no reference to a flower called cashmere or kashmir. Could it be a mis-hearing of catsear?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cadgwith Anthem
From: GUEST,Katie
Date: 22 Nov 11 - 09:06 AM

I personally think that the roses and lilies are exotic Kashmiri females who, along with a handsome young man, have been rescued / captured from a wreck by a band of drunken robbers / highwaymen. They are being taken in a wagon to the robber's retreat on the wooded hillside and there is much revelry and goading going on, i.e. they're returning to their own 'caves in the mountain' and the young kashmir man is bowing his head with fatigue, despair, who knows... :) The robbers would have been impressed with his maybe effeminate beauty (compared with their swarthy features) and probably meant to carry away the womenfolk to marry - much in the style of the Doones in Lorna Doone. I love listening to the Fisherman's Friends sing this song and this is the story I conjure in my head, makes perfect sense to me lol!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cadgwith Anthem
From: Artful Codger
Date: 22 Nov 11 - 07:31 PM

Now all we need is a theory about "rows of cashmere" (bolts) "draping the head." {Now that the evil seed has been planted, my job is done.}


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cadgwith Anthem
From: GUEST,Longbeard
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 01:32 PM

Is there a verse missing?

'And now we'll return to our wives and our children
Expecting their fathers to come robbing this way'

Only had a quick look through. Written in the fifties as sung by Steeleye Span but verses added in a session more recently. Met someone in Brittany recently who was at that session!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cadgwith Anthem
From: Artful Codger
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 05:27 PM

See other threads on the song. Contrary to the hype, it wasn't "written in the 50's by Cadgwith fisherman," and although some more verses have been added (that also is described in those threads), the earliest collected version (1901) consisted of only two verses--as it happens, those sung in Cadgwith by the fishermen's choir, with a few alterations; a fuller four-verse version was published in 1906.

Of the verses reportedly "written" at the session you refer to, only three seem to have "entered the tradition", and two of the three have proven to be just slight variants of the verses in the 1906 text. I don't doubt that additional verses were written, but they don't appear to have acquired legs--the relevance of that session is inflated.

(BTW, why would the children expect their fathers to come robbing this way? Do the robbers follow a route, like caroling children? "Here we come a robbering..." Clearly too much liquor at that session.)

Next we'll be hearing that Steeleye Span actually wrote the song, time-travelled to Cadgwith and taught it to the fishermen, who mistook the line "beautiful (roast of) catsmeat" (actually, loin chops) for "the beautiful (rose/daffodil/hydrangea/invasive weed of) Cashmere". Then the fishermen time-travelled back to the 1890's, taught it to seamen, and the rest, as they say, is revisionist history. I'm off to tell Bert Lloyd, John Jacob Niles and George Bush...


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cadgwith Anthem
From: GUEST,Longbeard
Date: 24 Nov 11 - 02:57 PM

HUEEEEEY. AIN'T YOU THE MAN. EVERYTHING YOU SING MAKES SENSE. MUST HAVE A COPY OF THAT SONG BOOK! Will sing that last verse with even more gusto next time out.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cadgwith Anthem
From: Artful Codger
Date: 24 Nov 11 - 07:29 PM

Making sense does usually help. When I write lyrics, I try to avoid bits that stick out like sore thumbs, and yes, I revise many obvious corruptions in songs. But if you prefer to parrot the mistakes of others and sing rubbish, that's certainly an option.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cadgwith Anthem
From: GUEST,Longbeard
Date: 25 Nov 11 - 05:29 PM

And so ends a broadcast from the self righteous party.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cadgwith Anthem
From: Artful Codger
Date: 26 Nov 11 - 02:32 PM

And the usual reasoned rebuttal of the football hooligan: Is someone besting you logically, showing errors in your pronouncements? Then it's time for ad hominem attacks.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cadgwith Anthem
From: GUEST,odonian
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 03:25 AM

beauty of kashmir - opium poppy?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cadgwith Anthem
From: GUEST,Vlad 111
Date: 11 Jul 16 - 04:53 AM

Spoil heaps from the China clay industry were always called the Cornish mountains


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