Oh Yeah? How about D#dim7 in Open D?

Subject: Oh Yeah? How about D#dim7 in Open D?
From: Peter T.
Date: 15 Apr 01 - 11:30 AM

OK. smart guys, how about D# dim in open D? A Ddim7 is X232XX, and one version of a D#dim is 101031, but it is too hard to play. Anyone got a simpler, smoother version that would enable one to do the classic, D, D#dim7, Em7, A7 progression? I have put my brain around this without success.

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Oh Yeah? How about D#dim7 in Open D?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 15 Apr 01 - 12:29 PM

Why you dad-blamed trouble maker you!!(this is where I slam my Gabby Hayes old torn stetson to the ground and yell "Dad Gummit, Roy!"

If 101001 isn't good enough for you (it works perfectly well as a passing chord in that pattern) you can try

XX4331

It's not always "what you play, it's what you IMPLY".

Rick

Subject: RE: Oh Yeah? How about D#dim7 in Open D?
From: Peter T.
Date: 15 Apr 01 - 12:44 PM

Gee, you're right (I suppose that's why you get the big bucks). Is that generally true - you can get away with 3 of the 4 notes (here the C is missing) in a diminished? Does it matter which 3 (since they are all in a row, so to speak), as long as you have the D# in the progression?
(I suppose X3433X is O.K. in spots too). Thanks.

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Oh Yeah? How about D#dim7 in Open D?
From: Bernard
Date: 15 Apr 01 - 01:28 PM

W
H
Y
?

Subject: RE: Oh Yeah? How about D#dim7 in Open D?
From: Peter T.
Date: 15 Apr 01 - 02:26 PM

Because we are seeking to augment a diminished world from the dim. yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Oh Yeah? How about D#dim7 in Open D?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 15 Apr 01 - 04:03 PM

Well, lemme try and explain why.

Open D tuning is often used for blues, right? There's not a whole lot of information out there for anyone who wants to use that tuning for other kinds of songs..say jazz or pop tunes. Now the guitar that hangs over the couch downstairs (the one I lie in while watching the Blue Jays) is permanently tuned to open D..has been for several months now. After pulling it down (I don't have to move one bit) off the wall and making up about a thousand bluesey licks, I figured it was time to REALLY challenge myself...and go for some Ellington or Gershwin stuff. Damn, you need some bizzare fingerings to get those diminished and augmenteds (Gershwin, right?). Meanwhile those baseball innings just keep piling up!

SO....it's like treading water til ya die! (and learning chords in the meantime!)

But I'd sure like to know how to do the flashing red letters!!

Rick

Subject: RE: Oh Yeah? How about D#dim7 in Open D?
From: Peter T.
Date: 15 Apr 01 - 04:16 PM

Rick, blinking is a lot easier than figuring out diminisheds. It is just another command between brackets (you know, the open and closed things <>). Between a set of brackets you type blink and then you type the word you want to blink, and then you have another set of brackets with a backslash after the first bracket, then type blink again, then close the bracket. It is pretty dopy, really. I can't figure out why they went to the trouble to put it in the HTML toolkit.

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Oh Yeah? How about D#dim7 in Open D?
From: John Hardly
Date: 15 Apr 01 - 04:25 PM

I know this link has been provided before by JustaPicker, and I know it's sometimes more fun to hash these things out by talking them out. Still, it's kinda nice to have a reference handy for others who might stumble on this thread. So as bad as I am at making links, this site full of chord charts for open tunings (D,G,E,DADGAD) is a very nice resource.

--JH

Subject: RE: Oh Yeah? How about D#dim7 in Open D?
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 15 Apr 01 - 08:38 PM

A true diminished 7th is 1 3b 5b 7bb, and you can't get it worth a d--n on an equal temperament scale (it appears that the equal temperament approximation is worse here than in any other place)

The frequency ratios of the notes are 1:(6/5):(6/5)^2:(6/5)^3.

See program SCALE35C.TRU on my website to get the true diminished 7th note frequencies for any choice of base note.

Subject: RE: Oh Yeah? How about D#dim7 in Open D?
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 15 Apr 01 - 08:53 PM

Sorry, I screwed up the math notation. Change the colons to commas to get the ratios of the other 3 notes to the base note. With the colon notation it should just be 1:6/5:6/5:6/5

Subject: RE: Oh Yeah? How about D#dim7 in Open D?
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 09:50 AM

Put simply, that 7bb in 12 tone equal temperament is close to half way between 6 and 6#/7b.

Subject: RE: Oh Yeah? How about D#dim7 in Open D?
From: Marion
Date: 27 May 01 - 01:25 AM

Subject: RE: Oh Yeah? How about D#dim7 in Open D?
From: Terry K
Date: 27 May 01 - 02:41 AM

I'm afraid I was nearly overcome with mirth.

After two posts of what appears to the uninitiated as complete gobbledegook, Bruce O goes on to say " ..... put simply ......." followed by even more gobbledegook! Sorry Bruce, mucho respect and all that, but irrestistible.

I always look in these threads in the hope of learning but sometimes despair at how complicated the guitar can be.

Cheers, Terry

Subject: RE: Oh Yeah? How about D#dim7 in Open D?
From: Peter T.
Date: 27 May 01 - 11:07 AM

Thanks for bringing this back up again, I have been wrestling with my memory (and Patsy Clinet tunes) over this. As Rick pointed out, while we are at it, an A augmented in open D is X10010. yours, Peter T. (Now you has jazz).

Subject: RE: Oh Yeah? How about D#dim7 in Open D?
From: catspaw49
Date: 27 May 01 - 11:12 AM

I dunno PT.......Did Rick say some things are "implyed?" If so, it could be a problem with the glue. Now if he meant "implayed" then it could be a problem with the strumming/picking. Then again, some things are best left unsaid......like this post.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Oh Yeah? How about D#dim7 in Open D?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 27 May 01 - 11:18 AM

I LOVE Patsy Clinet!

By the way (and I'll put this simply) I want to emphasize once again, that these OPEN TUNING CHORDS are often simply IMPLYING the chord. They are for PLAYING the songs, and not etched in stone for theoretical purposes.

Check out "Hawaiian Slack Key" guitar stuff on the net for lots of neat open tuning inventions.

Rick

Subject: RE: Oh Yeah? How about D#dim7 in Open D?
From: Sorcha
Date: 27 May 01 - 11:31 AM

Pedantry: "implied".......(small grin)

Subject: RE: Oh Yeah? How about D#dim7 in Open D?
From: Peter T.
Date: 27 May 01 - 11:47 AM

The Patsy Clinet is obviously the Internet site for Patsy Cline Fans. yours, Peter T. (I've been so wrong, for so long....)

Subject: RE: Oh Yeah? How about D#dim7 in Open D?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 27 May 01 - 01:38 PM

But it IS smaller than the Patsy Clin.

By the way, "Walkin' After Midnite" sounds wonderful in Open "D"....very bluesy.

Rick

Subject: RE: Oh Yeah? How about D#dim7 in Open D?
From: dr soul
Date: 28 May 01 - 01:13 AM

It should, it was orginally R&B, written by Loman Pauling of the 5 Royales.

Subject: RE: Oh Yeah? How about D#dim7 in Open D?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 28 May 01 - 12:58 PM

Well I'll be....thanks Dr. Soul.

Rick

Subject: RE: Oh Yeah? How about D#dim7 in Open D?
From: WyoWoman
Date: 28 May 01 - 02:22 PM

Just when I think it's safe to come out of the woods -- and bring my guitar with me ...

I did print out some of that website, John, and will give it a shot. But I swear I will never figure out this X232XXOOSMOOCHXIV7XDPar4 shit.

ww

Subject: RE: Oh Yeah? How about D#dim7 in Open D?
From: Peter T.
Date: 29 May 01 - 09:07 AM

Don't know about that Dr. Soul. Checking out the sheet music last night with El Rick for other Clinian purposes "Walkin' After Midnight" appears to have been written by Don Hecht and Alan Block.

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Oh Yeah? How about D#dim7 in Open D?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 29 May 01 - 11:08 AM

Ha, ha, just a differenk KIND of soul, I guess. But now I'm curious...did the 5 Royales do a SIMILAR song, or is there a bit of "song appropriatin'" goin' on here?

Rick

Subject: RE: Oh Yeah? How about D#dim7 in Open D?
From: dr soul
Date: 30 May 01 - 02:56 AM

I am SOOOOO sorry about that!

I would have sworn I heard a Five Royales version of Walking after Midnight on the radio twenty years or so ago, and just assumed that they wrote it. Having looked at the record label - yes, Don Hecht and Alan Block are the writers.

However, I'm a little perplexed because I just searched the ASCAP and BMI catalogs on the web, and neither one lists this song in their catalog (if they did, they'd show which artists have covered it), nor show Patsy Cline as recording it, nor show these guys as authors.

But this is waaay off thread, in't it?

Once again, please accept my apologies.

Subject: RE: Oh Yeah? How about D#dim7 in Open D?
From: JenEllen
Date: 30 May 01 - 03:21 AM

S'okay Doc. Chalk it up to more of the Clinedestine.

Covers of it can be found at AMG here if I did that right...
also cowpie chords

~san antonio rose

Subject: RE: Oh Yeah? How about D#dim7 in Open D?
From: dr soul
Date: 30 May 01 - 03:42 AM

Great work, Rose! Otis Williams and the Charms pops up on the list of doing "Walking After Midnight." They were in that Five Royales bag, and I just betcha that's who I heard. I'm inClined to nominate you for researcher of the night!