READ ME: Mudcat pledges

Subject: READ ME: Mudcat pledges
From: Richard Wright
Date: 15 Dec 97 - 12:00 AM

This is an offshoot of the Mudcat availability thread. See it for background.

I am suggesting we all need to kick some bucks to help Mudcat expand. It's a great service as exemplified in the previous thread. I am suggesting we try to see how fast we can raise $6000 to improve the service. Some of us use this site a lot, but even lurkers can contribute. Donations can be mailed to Mudcat Cafe 1541 N Bailey Rd. , Dowinton PA, 19335 or phoned in to 610-873-7743 or faxed to 610-873-7618, or look up Max's suggestion in the NeWS icon. I am starting it off with $50, which I phoned in tonight. Next?

Subject: RE: READ ME: Mudcat pledges
From: Max
Date: 16 Dec 97 - 12:12 AM

Thank you Richard. I do not expect to raise $6000. In fact, I can come up with that. It is really the monthly payments that worry me. I am going to get off my butt and get you all some t-shirts and albums and things you need and want anyway and can't find at a fair price.

Tangent #1 The cool thing about the mudcat is that it allows a niche interest to be shared in a community. That is, the music herein is not mainstream. Your local record store or live music establishment is not going to have enough of what we like. In fact, our communities don't have very many people that dig this stuff. Here we have a global community, a global dialogue that allows us to share our passions with other like us.

... at least in my neiborhood.

The point is that I figure that it must be hard to find some things concerning the interests of this site and its members. Rather than ask for simple contributions, perhaps we can distribute things of true interest and value at a fair price, with you knowing that all the profits go back into this non-profit publication. I checked some wholesale prices out and I am sure we can compete pricewise.

This is something that we can do. Come January I will ask you to contribute ideas and leeds of people that would like to do business with us. Record Companies, Book Sellers, Memorabilia Dealers, anyone with anything that we would want. We'll open a store of hard to find music related things, have auctions, create a swap exchange, and any other ideas.

Tangent #2 I think I would rather have your time than your money, and I am sure it would take us farther. Perhaps we could grow with contributed essays, stories, picture and reviews of festivals, and songs in midi and real audio. Hell we must all be songwriters and musicians, and the net is becoming more sound and video friedly... we can host and simulcast concerts in audio and video. All it takes is for some of you to go out with tape recorders and video cameras, get permission and send me the tapes. We could even get you press passes if prearranged. It's amazing how easy it is to get permissions and talk to musicians and managers, most of the phone numbers are publicly available on the net and in industry publications. And when your motives are pure they can dig it. Ask Dick, he's met everybody.

I can't think of a pleasant way to get consistant monthly contributions so we shall earn it. Dick and I have been talking about this for a long time but I just haven't got around to it.

A New Years Resolution: Perfect the Mudcat.

Subject: RE: READ ME: Mudcat pledges
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 16 Dec 97 - 04:14 PM

Max- I think it's important for people to realize that the kind of generous pledges we've received wouldn't really be necessary if we could spread out the load. Why not tell folks how many people visit Mudcat each month: Seems to me that if we could get a pittance from each we'd all be in clover.

Subject: RE: READ ME: Mudcat pledges
From: Max
Date: 16 Dec 97 - 05:40 PM

OK, we got a month in the bag now. I'll whip it up tonight.

Subject: RE: READ ME: Mudcat pledges
From: Will
Date: 16 Dec 97 - 09:21 PM

Hi, Max. I appreciate the efforts to generate the funds you need to keep this going. I have to admit, I would rather pay a monthly subscription than buy more mugs that I won't use and more T-shirts that I won't wear. The value I get is from the Mudcat discussion, not stuff. I would much rather have you using your extremely valuable time helping the Mudcat grow, rather than selling stuff.

So, if you want to create a voluntary subscription service, I'm in. I spend as much time following the threads as I do listening to the public radio stations that I belong to.

Subject: RE: READ ME: Mudcat pledges
From:
Date: 16 Dec 97 - 11:42 PM

I agree with Will. Put me on the record as willing to pay a subscription.

I am a little doubtful about "monthly". I have never managed to do anything on time per month. I would prefer a yearly one.

I would, however, be against people being denied access to Mudcat because they can't pay a sub.

Murray

Subject: RE: READ ME: Mudcat pledges
From: Earl
Date: 17 Dec 97 - 10:16 AM

I think there should be a posted "suggested donation" amount so people are reminded that nothing is free. But we don't want to turn into a private club. I personally would love to drink from a Mudcat mug and wear a Mudcat T-shirt.

Subject: RE: READ ME: Mudcat pledges
From: Jaxon
Date: 17 Dec 97 - 10:16 AM

Max, how and where do we send pledges?

Subject: RE: READ ME: Mudcat pledges
From: Richard Wright
Date: 17 Dec 97 - 12:41 PM

Jaxon: See the start of this thread or the NEWS icon on the mainpage. Also Max's note on the availability thread. Richard

Subject: RE: READ ME: Mudcat pledges
From: Max
Date: 17 Dec 97 - 02:29 PM

Contributions can be made to Mudcat Music Foundation, 5 W. Gay St. Suite A, West Chester, PA 19380. They may be called in to 610-738-9050 or faxed to 610-738-3299. You may also do it online from the join us button. Thanks.

Subject: RE: READ ME: Mudcat pledges
From: dwditty
Date: 18 Dec 97 - 06:26 AM

Max, just when I think the Mudcat is already perfect, you come up with a bunch of new ideas. I couldn't agree with you more that the stuff we get in the Mudcat is rarely found in the general public - this may be one of society's great ills today.

Anyway, I would personally order Mudcat T-shirts in every available color. May throw in a mug or two, also. Being able to listen to and/or view artists is a great idea. Who knows, there may be some artists who, recognizing the wonderful world of Mudcat, would agree to do a live or taped broadcast just for the Mudcat. As you said, many artists are agreeable to such things if the cause is noble. I have started carrying small slips of paper with the Mudcat's address and a brief description in my wallet. This way I can hand it out whenever the subject of cool music sites comes up.

Dick, I can't tell you how useful the DT is. I have enough trouble with lyrics anyway, let alone trying to find them in the first place. I use it constantly.

So, guys, keep it coming. Can't wait to see what's next. And thanks again. I appreciate you both.

Subject: RE: READ ME: Mudcat pledges
From: Max
Date: 18 Dec 97 - 11:13 AM

Just a note, I am not only talking about selling Mudcat parafanalia, but also other things like records from mom and pop record shops and book shops that never got national or global distribution. I know several little record companies in Ireland that we have spoke to that are willing to work with us. Their records have never been sold in America. Little American shops that have never been sold in Ireland. I would never suggest just selling worthless crap with Mudcat all over it. T-shirts we want for when we go to festivals and concerts. We will all wear them and see others wearing them and will get to meet face to case with some of the folk we know only here. We will begin taking orders on t-shirts in the next couple of days. Sorry we didn't get it in time for Chistmas, that would have been nice.

Subject: RE: READ ME: Mudcat pledges
From: Alice
Date: 18 Dec 97 - 02:53 PM

Obscure records from Ireland? Max, it's like a dream come true!! If we who love the non-profitable music could get songbooks, tapes, etc., ...that would be wonderful! Thanks, Max. Alice in Montana

Subject: RE: READ ME: Mudcat pledges
From: Richard Wright
Date: 19 Dec 97 - 01:46 PM

Max; Another group that could use distribution are the multitude of Cowboy poets, many of whom have tapes and a few CDs that they can only sell when they are at gatherings or festivals. A good slection at Mudcat would be really useful and would contriubte immensely to preserving and supporting this folk culture. If you are interested I can put you in touch with a few. Richard

Subject: RE: READ ME: Mudcat pledges
From: Max
Date: 19 Dec 97 - 06:05 PM

I am interested in everybody's tips and leeds, and always put people in touch with me... no need to ask.

Subject: RE: READ ME: Mudcat pledges
From: Petra A. Cosgrove
Date: 21 Dec 97 - 07:17 PM

Max -

::drools slowly all over her fathers keyboard:: Yeah.. uh-huh.. yeah.. yeah.. :) And even if you guys have to kick in a monthly (or yearly) sub. fee this would be the one (and only!) site that I would be really willing to pay money for. (this is coming from a perpetually broke college kid.. be impressed!! )

And if there is anything that you guys need that I can do from Durango CO (or Cork Ireland next year!) just let me know! :)

Petra Cosgrove DT lurker who's finally talking lots.. :)

Subject: RE: READ ME: Mudcat pledges
From: Selene
Date: 22 Dec 97 - 03:45 PM

Hi all

I'd agree to pay a subscription fee, provided it isn't too high. I think it would be a reasonable thing though (but I do live of pocket-money, you know) and I like the idea of a mudcat t-shirt or mug. Count me in, al be it for a smallish donation!

Selene

Subject: RE: READ ME: Mudcat pledges
From: leprechaun
Date: 22 Dec 97 - 07:08 PM

I think it would be a grand thrill to be walking somewhere in the world in my Mudcat T-shirt and to meet another person face to face who's wearing the same T-shirt. We could have a "guess my nickname" contest. Count me in for T-shirts, albums or coffee mugs. My first subscription installment is in the mail. (Really!)

Subject: RE: READ ME: Mudcat pledges
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 23 Dec 97 - 12:38 PM

A short bit of reassurance-- The DT (and the Mudcat Cafe) will NEVER have an admission charge.

Subject: RE: READ ME: Mudcat pledges
From: Max
Date: 23 Dec 97 - 01:39 PM

Well said dick.

Subject: RE: READ ME: Mudcat pledges
From: Helen
Date: 23 Dec 97 - 04:27 PM

Another suggestion I have for making some $$ is to have a page where we can advertise to buy or sell used instruments. Mudcat could claim a reasonable % commission/advertising fee, or incorporate x number of advertisements per year on donating to the site. If you look at the "Favourite Instruments" thread you can see what I mean - we're addicted to buying instruments.

I hope you have credit card charge facilities so that I can send a subscription on a Visa or Mastercard - it's a lot cheaper than paying the bank fees on an overseas bank cheque.

I'm in on the t-shirts & mugs too.

Helen, in Oz

Subject: RE: READ ME: Mudcat pledges
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Dec 97 - 04:36 PM

Well, Helen, those of us not coordinated enough to play instruments spend our money on other stuff (although i admit to having a fair-sized collection of unused instruments). My latest addiction, in addition to CD's, is songbooks. I'm hoping this new Max-o-rama store will have songbooks from Dover, Sing Out! and maybe Hal Leonard. If we could find a way to get stuff from Oak Publications, that would be wonderful. Maybe we could creat a market that would make it more lucrative for publishers to come out with reprints like that "People's Songbook" I want so badly. Oh, and used songbooks and instruments, too.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: READ ME: Mudcat pledges
From: Selene
Date: 23 Dec 97 - 05:50 PM

Of course, we could always put together a songbook, and publish it! Seriously, I've seen a couple, so why not our own? I've got about 70 odd dutch songs you can have.

Selene

Subject: RE: READ ME: Mudcat pledges
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 Dec 97 - 01:52 AM

Could be a good idea, Selena. We DO have the best songbook ever compiled, though, right here. It's fun to search the database here online, but I think you get the whole impact it if you download the entire database so you can run it yourself. Go to the Mudcat home page, and get that bother/brother of yours to help you download and install the database. It's an amazing thing, it is.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: READ ME: Mudcat pledges
From: rastrelnikov
Date: 24 Dec 97 - 04:08 AM

I have only bought about 6 CDs in 97, two semi-pro's concerts, and no music books. I spend my music money at song circles and jams. Admittedly, I already have a reasonable collection of recordings and songbooks. But things have never felt so tight.

If it was much easier to connect to Mudcat, there would be three or four times as many posts and threads to read. I think that it might be overwelming for the die-hard regular readers, the way the USENET folk SIGs often seem overwelming.

If people want to connect to contact the database, there *ARE* mirror sites available, such as the "yet another digital tradition page".

I have no idea. Maybe Dick is already putting in $60,000 worth of expertise into Mudcat eash year. But $18,000? a year for maintenance still seems a bit steep for to me. I've only noticed about 25 regular forum users. That'd be what, US$700 a year each? That's way over half of my entire year's music budget. Mudcat is great, but it's not worth that much to me right now.

Subject: RE: READ ME: Mudcat pledges
From: Max
Date: 24 Dec 97 - 09:16 AM

Good news guys. My other company (Onstage Media) who currently finances the Mudcat, just got an account that is going to get us a T1 (very fast connection). We should be set up by the end of January. You should check out the site, www.acumins.com. It's custom built vitamins, a pretty neat site, and fine folks.

$18,000 per year is not maintenance, but just the T1. We coulnd't even calculate the maintenance we put into the site or what Dick puts into the digitrad.

As far as all this goes, Onstage and Mudcat are partnering on this thing. I do not expect the Mudcat to pay for much of it at all. Onstage needs the connection as much if not more than the mudcat does.

It doesn't matter to me who pays for it. I see Onstage and Mudcat as essetially the same thing. They are both my projects and passions. As long as one of them is successful, the Mudcat will always prosper.

Anyway, Merry Christmas to all. We are going to need as much money as we can get our hands on in January, so the push should continue till then. I am looking forward to a very happy new year. Love you all.

Subject: RE: READ ME: Mudcat pledges
From:
Date: 28 Dec 97 - 09:27 PM

If there are indeed 25 regular users then there should be 25 pledges. Is $10 too much, or the price of a CD at $20. There have been some commercial requests on here. Surely they can afford a few bucks to help support the site. Beats hiring someone to go to the library. Think Xmas and new Year's folks. Donate.

Richard