Making Mudcat work better for all...

Subject: Making Mudcat work better for all...
From: InOBU
Date: 25 Jun 01 - 10:21 AM

My dear friends

I have always been impressed with the way Mudcat creates an international community of care and scholarship. HOWEVER! Many of us, myself included at times, give in to the emotional salve of insulting each other rather than making a point. In small amounts and with good nature, this is what the world is, but when we go overboard, we make our own issues secondary to the emotional vent of insulting the other guy or girl.
Now for those of you who claim to want to make the world better, making enemies of those you perceive wont help much, as they often are the majority community if not the most empowered community, and hence they are the ones we have to win over. For those on the other side, who have a politic of not caring, well you have to live in the world you create, and at least if you approach the issues in a humane way, well, we may have a more pleasant environment (even if it is smoke and garbage filled - sorry couldn't resist)
ANYWAY Try to play nice folks,
Larry

Subject: RE: Making Mudcat work better for all...
From: SDShad
Date: 25 Jun 01 - 10:35 AM

Why, you...I oughtta....@#*@#$@#...oh, wait, that's actually a pretty reasonable request. :-)

It's a good point, Larry. Unfortunately, I'm in pessimist mode this morning, so I'm thinking of starting a pool as to how soon the first post will be that flames you for being so reasonable.

Chris

Subject: RE: Making Mudcat work better for all...
From: Kim C
Date: 25 Jun 01 - 10:47 AM

No argument from me Larry. ;-)

Subject: RE: Making Mudcat work better for all...
From: RichM
Date: 25 Jun 01 - 11:07 AM

Larry, well said. We tend to have "hot buttons" that make us respond emotionally to some topics.
We should all count to ten before pressing the 'submit message' button--and I include myself in that prescription!

Rich McCarthy

Subject: RE: Making Mudcat work better for all...
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 25 Jun 01 - 11:14 AM

I agree.Thats a very good message INOBU.

Subject: RE: Making Mudcat work better for all...
From: GeorgeH
Date: 25 Jun 01 - 11:35 AM

Well said, sir . .

I was already feeling rather guilty at some name-calling I indulged in "elsewhere" in the forum . . . (got fed up at one more instance of someone "responding" to what no-one had written, but that's no excuse) . . So no I'm feeling thoroughly ashamed!

Thanks, nevertheless!

George

Subject: RE: Making Mudcat work better for all...
From: CamiSu
Date: 25 Jun 01 - 11:58 AM

I am grateful to have never been flamed here, since I am the sort to be hurt when someone doesn't respond to a PM, so I'm not sure what I would do if someone did. (Oh wait, someone did once and my daughter told him to quit. Oh well.)

Larry, I think you are definitely on the right track, though I'm afraid that the ones who really like argument, as opposed to discussion, will probably ignore your advice.

Me? I pay much more attention to those whose discussions are couched in civilised language and moderate tones--or whose rants are offered with the ranter's ego firmly in hand (end of rant...thank you for listening...I'll take my soapbox home now!) and by and large, Mudcatters are pretty civilised. That's why I stick around.

CamiSu

Subject: RE: Making Mudcat work better for all...
From: IanC
Date: 25 Jun 01 - 12:17 PM

Larry

I believe you wholeheartedly, but - Oh Gawd! - I've just done it myself here and I don't think anything could have stopped me!

Mea Culpa!
Ian

Subject: RE: Making Mudcat work better for all...
From: InOBU
Date: 25 Jun 01 - 09:14 PM

Gee I feel like I should flame myself! Larry

Subject: RE: Making Mudcat work better for all...
From: Amergin
Date: 25 Jun 01 - 09:21 PM

Larry, you self-important...self-promoting...whatever...good points they are!

Subject: RE: Making Mudcat work better for all...
From: GUEST,Guest47
Date: 26 Jun 01 - 11:36 AM

My boss gave me this rule to help avoid personal conflicts at work: "Address the issue, not the person." (Maybe she used a different word other than "address"; I'm not sure. Maybe it was "deal with".)

This may not solve every conflict, but it helps keep things from escalating.

I know some kind of line is crossed the first time someone in a dispute uses (or implies) the word "you."

Subject: RE: Making Mudcat work better for all...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Jun 01 - 01:13 PM

Sounds like good advice, Larry. I must keep reminding myself of it...

- LH

Subject: RE: Making Mudcat work better for all...
From:
Date: 26 Jun 01 - 04:28 PM

Thanks LArry. Valid point.

Subject: RE: Making Mudcat work better for all...
From: Chicken Charlie
Date: 26 Jun 01 - 05:22 PM

Good thought, Larry.

CC

Subject: RE: Making Mudcat work better for all...
From: InOBU
Date: 26 Jun 01 - 05:37 PM

I must admit, that when in law school there was a very right wing student paper which REALLY ofended a lot of people, (The West Fourth Street Review). Another student and I created an underground comic paper, greatly sought after, we could not keep up with the demand, as soon as we'd put out one hundred, they'd be scarphed up... but our stated editorial policy was that we'd ignore the issues raised in the West Fourth Street Review and savage the writers. It was called the Dead Cartoonest Society and all the charactors were classic cartoon folks, like the Yellow Kid, the Katzenjammer Kids, Toonerville Trolly, that sort of thing. It was really great fun, and I quietly contacted most of the folks we really hit hard to make sure we didn't touch really personal sore points, especially when one fellow grew quite paranoid about us, and we made fun of ourselves as well. When I went after one of the Florida Cuban crowd, I did get death threats, but well, some folks take jokes better than others. Here, where we can't get together for beer after school, I think we have to stay pretty careful of each other in order to really trade information.
All the best
Larry

Subject: RE: Making Mudcat work better for all...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Jun 01 - 06:16 PM

I don't think I've been flamed in my own eyes anyway.I did get someone send me a PM apologising for flaming me, but I'd thought it was fair comment. Of course that probably means there are people out there who think I'ver flamed them and haven't apologised.

My general principle - which I don't always keep to - is that there is never any point in annoying anybody, except maybe if that is a way of prodding them into doing or saying something foolish which will serve your ends. And that can't apply here - winning arguments isn't important enough to play dirty.

Subject: RE: Making Mudcat work better for all...
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Jun 01 - 07:04 PM

To Industrial Worker of the World #1 Larry Otway (nOBU):

For my part I'm all in favour of combative debate. But however combative I try to be, I can't find a damn thing wrong with your own style. It seems to be a model of how to show consideration for others, even where you disagree strongly.

(Don't take this as a flame *G*)

Subject: RE: Making Mudcat work better for all...
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Jun 01 - 07:06 PM

Yess but

Let's not all get to be robots, eh?

I remember the time I got very blamed for asking if a persistent aggravator "had piles" - but I was trying to make a serious point that there might be a reason for his behaviour being as it was.

It can be just as bad being too restrained as it can being insufficiently restrained.

Subject: RE: Making Mudcat work better for all...
From: GUEST,Fionn in Co Down
Date: 26 Jun 01 - 07:06 PM

The lasst post was from me. Not a deliberate attempt to disown a non-violent post - I just seem to have misplaced a cookie.

Subject: RE: Making Mudcat work better for all...
From: InOBU
Date: 26 Jun 01 - 10:59 PM

Hi Richard! Hi Fionn
Nice to hear from old pals!
Richard, I mean get tough with the issues, but if thee and I got bogged down on the insults, we'd have not really apreciated each other's take on the issues we disagreed on, and came out friends with differences. I don't propose this be as polite as a court room (HAH!!!) but, rather, try and convince each other rather than insult each other, other than Spaw who enjoys it... and insults us with a sort of loving wit...
Jeeze do we all have to get sick to get away with stuff - Spaw if yer reading this????)
Damn, I think I poisoned my self at dinner - I think I will be going, running? trying to avoid an unpleasent pun, but well, I'm off owww!
See ya (I hope) Larry