D.Behan, Dylan, Ives, and JO STAFFORD!?

Subject: RE: D.Behan, Dylan, Ives, and JO STAFFORD!?
From: GUEST,John Hardly
Date: 09 Jul 01 - 12:01 AM

I have a recording of Cinderella G. Stump(Jo Stafford) doing "Tym TAY Shun" that's why I thought that to be the answer to burl's Q.

Subject: RE: D.Behan, Dylan, Ives, and JO STAFFORD!?
From: DougR
Date: 09 Jul 01 - 12:20 AM

Those LPs were a scream. Florence Foster Jenkins did the same thing with classical music, but not intentionally.

DougR

Subject: RE: D.Behan, Dylan, Ives, and JO STAFFORD!?
From: Big Mick
Date: 10 Jul 01 - 07:01 PM

I believe my father still has a stack of Jo Stafford records in the basement. I will have to see what's there. She was his favorite singer as a young man coming home from WWII.

Mick

Subject: RE: D.Behan, Dylan, Ives, and JO STAFFORD!?
From: GUEST,Keiran in London
Date: 22 Nov 11 - 06:20 AM

I've just picked up this thread. I would love to know what was the original song sung to the tune of "Patriot Game". Every answer on the internet is wrong! 'The Merry Month Of May' (or Barbara Allen) is to a different metre, in spite of what Liam Clnacy said. So is the Thomas Dekker poem 'The Merry Month Of May'. The Nightingale/Bold Grenadier is the same metre, but the stresses are all wrong.

Has anyone got the faintest idea?

Subject: RE: D.Behan, Dylan, Ives, and JO STAFFORD!?
From: Jim McLean
Date: 22 Nov 11 - 06:58 AM

I've said this before on another thread but Dylan built his song around Dominic's Patriot Game. Compare the following verse:

My name it means nothin',
My age it means less,
The country I's born in
Is called the Midwest
I was taught and brought up there
God's laws to abide
And the land that I live in
Has God on it's side

to Dominic's:

My name is O'Hanlon,
I'm just seventeen,
My home is in Monaghan
'Twas there I was weaned
I was taught all my life cruel England to blame
Which makes me a part of the Patriot Game.



It's obvious Dylan heard Dominic's song before writing his own and he probably didn't know the tune was trad. I discussed Dominic's song with Dylan before he wrote With God on our Side.


In answer to the last posting, I would say the original song is The Nightingale, melody as per Jo Stafford and Burl Ives. People sometimes confuse this Nightingale with the other trad ' ... and they both sat down together to hear the Nightingale sing ...'

Also Guthrie's 1913 Massacre could be the source melody.

Subject: RE: D.Behan, Dylan, Ives, and JO STAFFORD!?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 22 Nov 11 - 07:27 AM

It was the version of The Nightingale,or The Bold Grenadier that begins "One morning, one morning, one morning in May, I spied a young couple a-making their way"; IIRC Bonnie Sartin recorded it with the Yetties: different tune and text from the "Kissed so sweet & comforting" variant. I once mentioned this in the course of a Guardian correspondence on the song as the source of the tune of The Patriot Game, and Dominic replied by admitting it had been the source of the air he had used; I still have this correspondence on file somewhere, I think: so Dominic seems to have {if may so put it} changed his tune over the years.

Ah, yes, Jo Stafford. It was Allentown Jail that I always particularly loved her singing.

~Michael~

Subject: RE: D.Behan, Dylan, Ives, and JO STAFFORD!?
From: GUEST,Hotenanny
Date: 22 Nov 11 - 11:22 AM

Whilst in this frame of mind does anybody have any thoughts/insights into the following old pop material;

Johnny Ray "Let's Walk This a Way" = Leadbelly "Ha Ha This a Way"

Danny Kaye "The Thing" (if that was the title) = The Lincolnshire Poacher

Josh White "Foggy Foggy Dew"    =    Harry Cox "Foggy Foggy Dew"

Hoot

Subject: RE: D.Behan, Dylan, Ives, and JO STAFFORD!?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 22 Nov 11 - 12:00 PM

The Josh White & Harry Cox are just two versions of a widespread song ~~ see the intro to James Reeves' collection of Sharp's MSs, The Idiom Of The People, where he discusses possible symbolisms of the 'dew'. (Is Josh White 'pop' in same sense as Johnny Ray, BTW?)

The Thing had a tune similar to Lincs Poacher. The text had some resemblances to The Farm Servant, {the euphemisitic 'knock knock-knock'} which I learned from Bert Lloyd & sing on my Youtube, also on recent Mudcat 'Earth' CD.

~M~

Subject: RE: D.Behan, Dylan, Ives, and JO STAFFORD!?
From: Will Fly
Date: 22 Nov 11 - 12:35 PM

My favourite Jo Stafford tracks were "Seratun Yob" and "Tim-Tay-Shun" where she sang under the name 'Cinderella Stump'.

Subject: RE: D.Behan, Dylan, Ives, and JO STAFFORD!?
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 22 Nov 11 - 02:42 PM

Will,
you omitted the essential 'G'. Wasn't it Cinderella G Stump with Red Ingle and the Un-Natural Seven? I loved that 78 too.
Do you know the origin of the comment on the disc "O.K then show us your muscles" ?
Was this also the same group that made "Cigareets and Whiskey" ? I can't remember.

Hoot

Subject: RE: D.Behan, Dylan, Ives, and JO STAFFORD!?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 22 Nov 11 - 03:36 PM

The 'show us your muscles' line surely came from Cigareets & Whusky ~~ from the I-wanna-hear-Temptation guy...

~M~

Subject: RE: D.Behan, Dylan, Ives, and JO STAFFORD!?
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 22 Nov 11 - 05:18 PM

You could well be right M. It's some years since I've heard either disc.

Hoot

Subject: RE: D.Behan, Dylan, Ives, and JO STAFFORD!?
From: Will Fly
Date: 22 Nov 11 - 06:44 PM

"Somebody get that bum outa here..."

"I'm sorry, stranger, but we don't play that kind of music here."
"OK then - show us your muscles."

Subject: RE: D.Behan, Dylan, Ives, and JO STAFFORD!?
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 07:44 AM

Will,what I have heard from a New York musician is that it was a bit of an in-joke among musicians related to a true story;

Apparently a well known female singer of light music was interupted once or twice by a drunk in the audience who kept yelling "I wanna hear Temptation" She tried to ignore him but eventually her patience snapped and she said "young man I don't sing that kind of song" to which the drunk replied "OK then show us your tits".

I can't vouch for it's authenticity

Hoot

Subject: RE: D.Behan, Dylan, Ives, and JO STAFFORD!?
From: Will Fly
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 09:08 AM

Authentic or not - I like it!

There's a similar story about a not-very-good music hall artiste who was receiving a rather rowdy reception from a rough audience at one of her performances. She stopped the orchestra at one point and asked the audience to behave - at which someone called out, "Come on - give the old cow a chance - she's doing the best she can!"

Subject: RE: D.Behan, Dylan, Ives, and JO STAFFORD!?
From: GUEST
Date: 27 May 15 - 03:24 PM

Haven't read the whole thread, but am I the only one who feels "Jack of All Trades" from The Wrecking Ball was maybe a bit similar?
Better lyrics from "The Boss" than any of them, however.
John Kerr (The Singing Doctor).

Subject: RE: D.Behan, Dylan, Ives, and JO STAFFORD!?
From: Little Robyn
Date: 27 May 15 - 10:16 PM

Got it!
Here's Jo Stafford with The Nightingale.
I remember this - no wonder I thought the Behan/Dylan tune was familiar, tho' at the time I couldn't quite place it.
And I used to love Shrimp Boats, back then. Maybe NZ radio was a bit behind the times in the 50s?
Robyn

Subject: RE: D.Behan, Dylan, Ives, and JO STAFFORD!?
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 28 May 15 - 09:36 AM

I love Jo Stafford, my favourite of hers is "You Belong To Me". Just a grand singer. I was not aware of the folk album but have now listened to a lot of it on you tube,,,just lovely. Is it available as a cd ?
    Also, did Rusty Draper have a minor hit with the Libba Cotton song "Freight Train " ?