Non-music: Any UK librarians out there?

Subject: Non-music: Any UK librarians out there?
From: Noreen
Date: 18 Jul 01 - 08:19 AM

Hi, any UK librarians...

I'm considering registering for a postgraduate diploma in Information and Library Management at Manchester and would like to find out a bit about prospects and employability after the course.

Big career change for me (from primary teaching) and I'm hestitant about taking a big step into the unknown. Any help, guidance, information or opinion would be gratefully recieved.

The financial side of going back to full time studying is making me anxious, so any ideas on that too, please?

Thank you.

Noreen

Subject: RE: Non-music: Any UK librarians out there?
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler
Date: 18 Jul 01 - 08:33 AM

It's been 30 years since I did my course so I'm not up to date on the courses,but I gather most are having recruitment problems so getting a place should be easy. I think most courses are very broad now so graduates can move into other information related areas: IT, journalism, publishing, more easily.
No advice on cash, I'm afraid.
Just one (ONE?)word of warning from a cynical old dinosaur looking forward to retirement: like all other professions it is now ruled by "management-speak", budgets, spreadsheets, appraisal and quality assurance. Wanting to help the punters find information is no longer the route to succes. Many library "managers" are proud that they could just as well be dealing in baked beans and claim no knowledge of written or online resources.
Searching for information on the Mudcat etc is good training for enquiry work.
If you go to work in a University Library, having been a Primary School teacher would be a great help! "George, don't do that!"
Good luck!
RtS (who is doing a 2 day 9-5 course on SfX for the next two days,and that after a 2-hour course on Dreamweaver yesterday, God help him!)

Subject: RE: Non-music: Any UK librarians out there?
From: KitKat
Date: 18 Jul 01 - 08:59 AM

You'd be surprised at the number of clog-dancing librarians there are!

Seriously, librarianship is OK as a career but not well paid - possibly even worse than teaching. I did a degree from Loughborough MANY years ago, but fled into publicity and PR. Mys sister qualified at Strathclyde and has been in and out of library work ever since (she also has a PG teaching qualification). Current demand seems to be in the online resource area.

Good luck P

Subject: RE: Non-music: Any UK librarians out there?
From: Moleskin Joe
Date: 18 Jul 01 - 03:50 PM

Noreen, I work in a University library where there are several qualified librarians who work as library assistants and several more who can only get part-time/temporary contracts. What RtS says about the work and the forces which drive is absolutely correct. However, working in a library is money for jam if, like me, you used to be a teacher. Good luck whatever you decide.

Ian M.

Subject: RE: Non-music: Any UK librarians out there?
From: Learchild
Date: 18 Jul 01 - 06:10 PM

Hi Noreen I've been in public libraries since qualifying in 1974. I've seen so many changes- it used to be about service to the public, the satisfaction of doing research for grateful customers and supplying reading material for book adicts. The reward was satisfaction in a job well done - not the financial remuneration. I cant say that there is much satisfaction now. Performance indicators, Investing in People, Public Library Standards, NOF and learning zones and 'outsourcing' have moved all management focus away from the fundamental reason for our existence. Roger is quite right - I even find myself proposing and planning strategies that I would have raged at 7 or 8 years ago, but I haven't the staff or the resources to play librarian anymore. Sorry to be so gloomy but I'd advise against public work. How about an academic library career?.

Subject: RE: Non-music: Any UK librarians out there?
From: Noreen
Date: 18 Jul 01 - 07:49 PM

Thank you all, for the input. It makes the possibility seem a bit more real if I can imagine the step beyond. All this about performance indicators and so on (desperately glad no-one used the dread word 'targets') made my stomach churn, I hoped I might leave all that behind by leaving teaching. (I love teaching, and the children, it's the rest of the cobblers that made me ill).

Learchild (are you a swan?), I have in mind an academic library, assisting students in finding info online and elsewhere. Probably not realistic these days, as has been pointed out.

Thanks for the different aspects, I really know very little about where librarians work.

Keep it coming...

Noreen

Subject: RE: Non-music: Any UK librarians out there?
From: Noreen
Date: 19 Jul 01 - 07:17 PM

Thanks for letting me talk about this. I've decided I will apply, and am feeling positive about it.

Will let you know what comes of it.

Noreen

Subject: RE: Non-music: Any UK librarians out there?
From: Tone d' F
Date: 19 Jul 01 - 07:46 PM

go for it oook

Subject: RE: Non-music: Any UK librarians out there?
From: Burke
Date: 19 Jul 01 - 08:33 PM

Noreen, Good luck with your new pursuit.

I went to library school at age 30, 15+ years ago. I have never regretted it. I was so afraid about taking over a year off from working, but the time flew by.

I'm in the US so the job market might be different. We've had 2 positions open recently. One is for a technical services librarian (all the back room stuff). We had less than 10 applicants, only 3 even met the qualifications on paper & only one is still a candidate. This is a department head, but you get the picture. There are just not enough experienced librarians who know cataloging, acquisitions & or serials. These dept. head jobs are going begging all over.

We have a reference position that's always been entry level. I've heard from a member of the search committee that there are a lot of applicants & at least one has a PhD.

My point is don't exclude the idea of doing cataloging or serials work. At least try out some of the courses. The job prospects & promotional opportunities are much better. (at least in the US)

Subject: RE: Non-music: Any UK librarians out there?
From: Matthew Edwards
Date: 19 Jul 01 - 08:53 PM

Noreen, from what I've seen of your postings here I would definitely recommend you as a librarian. You have a lot of patience, and tolerance, which makes a good start. I'd love to make such a big jump myself, but I'm too near retirement. GO FOR IT! I don't know about finance, which of course is the big question, but I'm sure Lancashire CC must be able to come up with something. Anyway, good luck!

Subject: RE: Non-music: Any UK librarians out there?
From: Big Tim
Date: 20 Jul 01 - 04:11 PM

Let me put it this way: In Glasgow there's no one left over 50, we all got the hell out of the madhouse as soon as we could.

Subject: RE: Non-music: Any UK librarians out there?
From: Noreen
Date: 01 Aug 01 - 12:05 PM

Thanks for the kind and helpful words. I have applied for the M.Sc./M.A. 1 year full time course, and am now waiting to hear.

Noreen

Subject: RE: Non-music: Any UK librarians out there?
From: MC Fat
Date: 02 Aug 01 - 10:01 AM

I managed to escape or more to the point librarianship got rid about two years ago. As previously mentioned it's not that well paid and over the years the opportunities for professional posts has been curtailed. However this government is keen but watch out for conditions of service being over ridden as they want libraries to open to meet current needs i.e. anti-social hours. Jim

Subject: RE: Non-music: Any UK librarians out there?
From: Greyeyes
Date: 02 Aug 01 - 01:31 PM

Best of luck Noreen, I did a part time MA while I was working as a library assistant and have never regretted it. The money, as others have stated, is paltry, but there is still a degree of job satisfaction, and the Public Library service, despite the encroaching "cobblers" which disfigures teaching so much, is still a fantastic concept on both sides of the pond. I've always worked in Public Libraries and we seem to have been waiting for the great leap forward that everybody predicts ever since I started. Once the People's Network is up and running properly things may change. We will, I think, become less lenders of books, more providers of information.

As RTS says, finding info on and for Mudcat is excellent practice for enquiry work, many of the Mudcat regulars are outstanding researchers.

Subject: RE: Non-music: Any UK librarians out there?
From: GUEST,(jo)
Date: 03 Aug 01 - 07:44 AM

I just do casual work as a librarian, but I find it really relaxing
certainly more so than most other things ive done
but then, having no responsibility helps.

Subject: RE: Non-music: Any UK librarians out there?
From: Grab
Date: 03 Aug 01 - 07:45 AM

Not a librarian myself, but one of my wife's best friends from college is. She's overworked, underpaid and expected to work unsociable hours. Her boss changed roles, so now she's expected to do the work her boss used to do, as well as her own work, and with no improved job title or pay. The local care-in-the-community place basically chucks all its ppl out during the day, so they congregate at the library and she finds herself trying to manage them as well. Meantime the local council is cutting funding all the time.

The only reason she's still there is that she's got a mortgage she can't really afford, so she can't take the chance of losing the job.

OTOH, Cambridge public library seems to be well run and well staffed. I guess you have to investigate the libraries in your area to find whether you want to work there, since it depends so much on whether local councils are prepared to put in the money.

Graham.

Subject: RE: Non-music: Any UK librarians out there?
From: Noreen
Date: 03 Aug 01 - 08:08 AM

Interesting. Branch library work is not really what appeals, more an academic or research library.

Whatever job comes up at the end of the course, I see the course (if I get onto it) as providing another tool for my toolbox, more skills to use in my future career, whatever and wherever that may be.

Mudcat has certainly encouraged me to learn and use internet research skills.

Thanks for all the good wishes.

Noreen

Subject: RE: Non-music: Any UK librarians out there?
From: Noreen
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 06:04 PM

Moment of truth!

I was accepted, and go to register for the course tomorrow. Looking forward to it, and to being a student again... the next phase in my life... but worry a bit over the finances. I have to take out a bank loan, to cover living expenses for the year as well as the course fees, but I suppose all students have to do that now?

Positive thoughts needed tomorrow.

Noreen

Subject: RE: Non-music: Any UK librarians out there?
From: Sarah the flute
Date: 20 Sep 01 - 03:50 AM

Hi Noreen

I'm an information scientist now working in a school library (independent sector). I did the MSc course in Loughborough a long time ago and promptly escaped into marketing/market research. Now back to the convenience of boring hours.

It can be fun but most librarians in the schools sector have a BIG chip on their shoulder cos although we "teach" we are not given the status of teachers within the hierarchy and in terms of pay.

Hence if the ICT department show someone how to use a computer it is "teaching" if a librarian does it (even with a class on your own) it is deemed to be advice and support.

Likewise teachers attend the Heads of Department meeting as senior members of staff but I attend it as someone of equivilent status but the Library cannot be called a department despite me reporting directly to the Head and having 4 staff to manage.

This is life in the real school librarian world. Long extra hours and half the pay of the teachers and no breaks during the day because the busiest times are break and lunchtime.

Library work in schools is no easy option - sorry

Subject: RE: Non-music: Any UK librarians out there?
From: nutty
Date: 20 Sep 01 - 06:08 AM

VERY BEST WISHES NOREEN

Don't worry about the job situation at present , just rediscover all the things you forgot as a teacher
eg
That you are an intelligent human being
That you are capable of independent thought and action
That you do have interests outside of teaching
ENJOY!!!!

Subject: RE: Non-music: Any UK librarians out there?
From: Noreen
Date: 20 Sep 01 - 05:33 PM

Thank you, Sarah and Nutty.

Hazel, you sound as if you speak with first hand knowledge... that is all too true. Well on the road to recovery, largely thanks to Mudcat and friends made here.

I'm now a registered masters student! Think it will be good.

Noreen

Subject: RE: Non-music: Any UK librarians out there?
From: lady penelope
Date: 20 Sep 01 - 05:35 PM

I repeat the good wishes sent by others, but I would say that my brother was an assistant librarian for Middlesex University in the Nurses Library at the Royal Free Hospital north London. He too took an MSc course in IT so he could advance to a full librarian post ( depending on where he could get one ). At the time he was trying to pay off the remnants of his studant loan for his MSc in Marine Biology and Fisheries and then had to find himself a new place to live as my parents moved to a smaller house.

The money simply wasn't enough to cover the bills ( and my brother's an expert at penny pinching ) there was no post for him to go into once he'd completed his MSc, the university was once again making rounds of budget cuts ( with jobs on the line ) and when he was offered a job working for an e-commerce firm ( with an instant pay rise of over 10,000 ) he took it.

He did really enjoy the job, though! He said he would deffinately have stayed if it weren't for the lack of money and job security.

TTFN M'Lady P.

Subject: RE: Non-music: Any UK librarians out there?
From: breezy
Date: 20 Sep 01 - 07:07 PM

find dave summers or sommers and get back to very intelligent and original songs where is he? last heard of in the library at lancaster uni is he there? please find him as i want to book him.

Subject: RE: Non-music: Any UK librarians out there?
From: Noreen
Date: 20 Sep 01 - 07:20 PM

Thanks, Lady P, for that. I'm not worrying about the job market for the moment (plenty of time for that later!), though I'm very interested to hear of what's available. Just planning to enjoy the course and get another qualification under my belt.

Noreen

Subject: RE: Non-music: Any UK librarians out there?
From: Marymac90
Date: 20 Sep 01 - 07:42 PM

Enjoy yourself, and good luck, Norreen!

Marymac

Subject: RE: Non-music: Any UK librarians out there?
From: Dave Wynn
Date: 20 Sep 01 - 08:37 PM

Bob your hair and wear flat shoes......Learn to say Shhhh and stamp books like you hate em......easy....

Spot.

Subject: RE: Non-music: Any UK librarians out there?
From: Sarah the flute
Date: 21 Sep 01 - 03:45 AM

I havn't got a bob or flat shoes or glasses for that matter and I'm under 50 and I don't wear twin set and pearls and the kids tend to say Shhh to us.... Oh damn I can't be a real librarian after all ! - so much for qualifications. They didn't teach us ettiquette at Library School!

Subject: RE: Non-music: Any UK librarians out there?
From: pavane
Date: 21 Sep 01 - 04:21 PM

Has anyone come across Dave Walsham - from Essex 30 years ago, last heard of working as a librarian. A former songwriter, and it would be interesting to post some of his songs with permission (I have a tape...) For example, 'Sorry, I've forgotten the words', 'Matties new restaurant(parody)' or maybe a monologue 'The Polite force'.

Subject: RE: Non-music: Any UK librarians out there?
From: pavane
Date: 21 Sep 01 - 04:22 PM

I forgot his best known song 'Roll Away (from my door)'

Subject: RE: Non-music: Any UK librarians out there?
From: Willa
Date: 21 Sep 01 - 05:19 PM

Enjoy it , Noreen, and keep on singing!

Subject: RE: Non-music: Any UK librarians out there?
From: Willa
Date: 21 Sep 01 - 05:20 PM

Enjoy it , Noreen, and keep on singing!