Any thoughts about lilting?

Subject: Any thoughts about lilting?
From: GUEST,Claire
Date: 18 Jul 01 - 04:34 PM

I am considering lilting a tune or two with my band, sort of as a break in an instrumental set of jigs or reels. My band plays Irish Traditional music, with a splash of other stuff. Does any one out there ideas about what works for this? I have loads of vocalist type questions like, should I stick to just an A part in the tune? Should I sing it full voice, or sort of quiet? What vowels work and what words work for lilting? Should you lilt on one set of words "hiddle dee dil do diddle" or is that too phony? (Of course this will be done somewhat tongue in cheek, anyway)

I have some recordings with lilting, but I would also appreciate any recommendations.

Thanks in advance, for any ideas you might share with me.

Claire

Subject: RE: Any thoughts about lilting?
From: Brían
Date: 18 Jul 01 - 05:05 PM

You might start with a really well known tune. If you have the CD CELTIC MOUTH MUSIC, there are two tunes that come to mind: "THE LITTLE PACK OF TAILORS" a reel known as "THE WIND THAT SHAKES THE BARLEY" and a jig known as "THE PRATIES ARE DUG AND THE FROST IS ALL OVER" or "WHAT WOULD YOU DO(IF THE KETTLE BOILED OVER?)". Both are relatively simple tunes. They both feature words and lilting. A word of caution, though. You probably won't be singing these tunes in the same keys that the band will be playing them in, but ther are plenty of ways to transition keys. And of course they're toungue and cheek. I don't know how to lilt with a straight face.

I think before I go any further, you should check the digital tradition forum search box at the top of the page, I am sure there are other discussions on this subject.
Brían.

Subject: RE: Any thoughts about lilting?
From: Brían
Date: 18 Jul 01 - 05:19 PM

Just put "Mouth music" in the digitrad forum search and you'll find a wealth of information from folks I'll gladly defer to.

Brían.

Subject: RE: Any thoughts about lilting?
From: TishA
Date: 18 Jul 01 - 06:53 PM

O.K., what's lilting?

Subject: RE: Any thoughts about lilting?
From: DonMeixner
Date: 18 Jul 01 - 11:00 PM

TishA,

Its a style of sining thats just plain deedle, deedle, Dum.

Don

Subject: RE: Any thoughts about lilting?
From: Rich(bodhránai gan ciall)
Date: 18 Jul 01 - 11:35 PM

If you can get Cathal McConnell and Len Graham's recording "For the Sake of Old Decency", it contains a lilted version of "The Quaker's Wife" that runs into one of Padraig O'Keefe's slides and a nice version of the above mentioned "Little Pack of Tailors" (Wind That Shakes the Barley).
It's a live recording taped here in Pittsburgh in '91 (I believe '91). It also contains, amongst other things, a brilliant rendition of Calliope House dedicated to George Balderose for whose house the tune was written and the "Banks of the Ilen(sp?)" played as a hornpipe,a jig and finally as a reel.

I think a lot of the difficulty in lilting (much like scat or other vocal music in jazz)is confidence of doing it without worrying that people think you're faking it.
Good luck! I hope it works out for you.

Rich

Subject: RE: Any thoughts about lilting?
From: Brían
Date: 19 Jul 01 - 09:54 AM

That's right, just stick your finger behind your ear like a good folk singer(that way you won't have to listen to yourself sing)lol.

Len Graham is another great singer to listen to for lilting. Thanks Rich.

Brían.

Subject: RE: Any thoughts about lilting?
From: mbridgham
Date: 19 Jul 01 - 11:02 AM

Three disparate but valid ways to go about finding your "lilting" voice, I would recommend. 1. Listen to as much lilting as you can, hear things people do. The aforementioned Celtic Mouth Music is a great CD. 2. Experiment and explore different sounds, combinations, and styles a lot till you find a style that is your own. If you play around with it, it will come. 3. Conversely, some night on stage just launch into it and see what happens. Sometimes it's akin to speaking in tongues, when the music spirit moves you just let it come out.

Other thoughts. Don't overworry it. Most audiences will thoroughly enjoy it because it will be something they've not heard much. Keep it simple, like developing ornamentation styles on instruments, start with the melody line, get it clean, then let the ornamentation find itself naturally. The most difficult thing with lilting in ensembles/instruments, as Brian pointed out above.

Subject: RE: Any thoughts about lilting?
From: GUEST,Claire
Date: 19 Jul 01 - 12:05 PM

Thanks to you all for your helpful ideas. I have heard the Mouth Music cd, but I have not studied it. It is good that others feel that is a good one to start with. I will definitely try to find that Lem Graham/Cathal McConnel cd as well, both singers I like very very much.

Marc, thanks for your suggestions about pursueing the lilting voice. It is very much the path I have taken for to learn other styles of traditional singing.

You know, I know the audience will probably buy whatever I do, because they are having fun, but as with other singing, it is in my nature to seek out the most traditional, try to get a handle on it, and then go from there.

So yes, I will go to it. Thanks again, Claire

Subject: RE: Any thoughts about lilting?
From: GUEST,Desert Dancer in NJ
Date: 19 Jul 01 - 12:54 PM

Hi, Claire, guess I won't have to forward you this one! ~ Becky in NJ

Subject: RE: Any thoughts about lilting?
From: jeffp
Date: 19 Jul 01 - 01:31 PM

I'll be at the Augusta Heritage Center for Irish Week next week taking a class in ballads and unaccompanied singing. I'll ask the instructor (Jim Flanagan) for any tips and share them here.

jeffp

Subject: RE: Any thoughts about lilting?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 19 Jul 01 - 01:47 PM

For the true sound of the Lilter listen to Pat Killduff on Chieftains 3, Pat accompanied by Peadar Mercier on Bodhran really lets rip with a great version of "Merrily kissed the Quaker". Slan, Ard Mhacha.

Subject: RE: Any thoughts about lilting?
From: Paddy Plastique
Date: 20 Jul 01 - 01:01 PM

I always thought lilting arose from all these destitute Scots & Irish unable to afford instruments and making up for the lack. ...but anyways - try checking out a track by Joe Heaney (Seosamh o hEanai - forgive the lack of fadas) called 'Diderumdoda' (I think). It's on an LP called 'Come all you Gallant Irishmen' (and possibly other compilations of his stuff). He leads into the lilting with a wee story that gives a sort of spoof background to lilting

Subject: RE: Any thoughts about lilting?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 20 Jul 01 - 08:37 PM

The equivalent of lilting exists in almost every culture in the world, and is no more typically Scottish or Irish than it is Mongolian (they do it too).  Obviously, the vocables used depend to an extent on the language you're most used to, and if you're going to improvise, you'd probably do best to stick to sounds that come naturally.  If you don't play an instrument, you could do a lot worse than spend time listening to the tune being played; after a while, you'll start to recognise the way the sounds fit together, and how the decoration works.  Have fun!

Subject: RE: Any thoughts about lilting?
From: Brían
Date: 20 Jul 01 - 09:18 PM

thought if we were going to bring up the suject of style, we might talk about The Nyahh.

I'll add another, later.

Brían.

Subject: RE: Any thoughts about lilting?
From: lady penelope
Date: 21 Jul 01 - 03:43 AM

Forgive an ignorant soul, do you mean ornamentation when you say lilting? I'd always had the impression that lilting referred to the basic qualities of a tune rather than a singing style.

I shall endevour to dig out the examples you've all given, but off hand I 'm still not sure what you mean.

TTFN M'Lady P.

Subject: RE: Any thoughts about lilting?
From: forty two
Date: 21 Jul 01 - 06:06 AM

There just isn't enough lilting around these days and a good lilter is worth their weight in gold. I am not too sure if it is the sort of thing you just launch into at a session. Like any other instrument, it takes time to perfect.

Claire, the CD by Cathal McConnell and Len Graham in Pittsburgh is superb. I think I got mine from Elderly Instruments over the net. It is full of Cathal's very dry humour too which all goes to make him one of the most entertaining traditional musicians. And Len Graham - what a singer!

Subject: RE: Any thoughts about lilting?
From: Brían
Date: 21 Jul 01 - 08:41 AM

That's a good question, Lady P. Although Lilting can also refer to the rhythmn of a song to sing with a light, graceful rhythm, a swing, what we are talking about here is the practice of using nonsense words or syllables to known dance tunes to create usually light- hearted music to dance to.

Here is another bit on style: Sean-nós in Donegal.

Brían.