Shanty Competition at Saltburn Folk Fest

Subject: Shanty Competition at Saltburn Folk Fest
From: GUEST,Mike{ Mainbrace}
Date: 18 Jul 01 - 09:03 PM

Are there any Budding "Shantymen" who might be interested entering the annual Shanty Competition at the Saltburn Festival(CLEVELAND UK).The festival is in August(10th>12th).The Competition is Run and adjudicated By Ray Padget and Mainbrace.There is a very good Prize for the Winnerand a good sing during the "session" on Sat 11th for everyone.I will "Post" more details Tomorrow if anyone is interested.Mike O'Leary-Johns.

Subject: RE: Shanty Competition at Saltburn Folk Fest
From: Charley Noble
Date: 19 Jul 01 - 01:24 PM

Is the prize for singing a "traditional shanty" or for singing a new shanty (or adapting a poem such as one by C. Fox Smith)? I'm assuming ballads or forebitters are out. I'm also assuming the prize is for the presentation of the shanty, not its composition of adaptation.

Subject: RE: Shanty Competition at Saltburn Folk Fest
From: Naemanson
Date: 19 Jul 01 - 01:58 PM

Yeah, what are the rules? We may want to have a shanty competition over here in the States.

Subject: RE: Shanty Competition at Saltburn Folk Fest
From: Kim C
Date: 19 Jul 01 - 02:06 PM

Oh sure, if they let girls play AND if some nice person wants to pay for me to go...............

Subject: RE: Shanty Competition at Saltburn Folk Fest
From: GUEST,Mike O'Leary-Johns
Date: 19 Jul 01 - 02:08 PM

The Competition is for a Traditional Shanty.I am one of the many people who value C.Fox Smith and her work enormously ,and I have been collecting and enjoying her books for 10 yrs at least.But for the Shanty competition we are looking at The Traditional working shanty.The judgement will be on the best performance/Presentation/Singing; whichever way you wish to put it. THE COMPETITION IS FOR "THE ANGUS RUSSEL MEMORIAL TROPHY" THE WINNER WILL HOLD FOR 12 MONTHS THE TROPHY AND MAY HAVE THEIR NAME INSCRIBED TO MARK THEIR ACHIEVMENT.THEY WILL ALSO RECEIVE A SMALLER CUP TO KEEP ; AND A PRIZE OF £100.00.tHE WINNER WILL ALSO GET TO SING THE SHANTY DURING THE CONCERT ON SUNDAY IN THE EMANUEL HALL.BEING SUITABLY BACKED BY A SHANTY GROUP SPECIALY ASSEMBLED FOR THE JOB.ANY RELUCTANCE BY THESE SINGERS WILL BE TRADITIONALLY OVERCOME WITH THE USE OF BELAYING PINS AND THE ROPES END.

THE QUALIFICATION IS THAT ENTRANTS MUST HOLD A WEEKEND FESTIVAL TICKET. TO PUT YOUR NAME FORWARD IN ADVANCE OR CHECK ON OTHER QUERIES, LET ME NOW "HERE " OR MAIL ME DIRECT AT :- [e-mail]

I am looking forward to meeting and HEARING a Blast of shantymen.......See you there. Mike O'Leary-Johns.

Subject: RE: Shanty Competition at Saltburn Folk Fest
From: Charley Noble
Date: 19 Jul 01 - 05:34 PM

Say, Brett, we're not booked for 8/10 to 8/11; we could just pop on over with the dory!

I wonder how old a sea shanty has to be to be judged "traditional"? Or do we just have to have collectively forgotten who composed it? Now just who wrote "Dramamine"?

Subject: RE: Shanty Competition at Saltburn Folk Fest
From: Naemanson
Date: 19 Jul 01 - 08:06 PM

No Charley, Dramamine is not old enough yet. You'll have to consider one of the older shanties like Tanqueray Martinio.

Subject: RE: Shanty Competition at Saltburn Folk Fest
From: GUEST,JohnB
Date: 20 Jul 01 - 01:07 PM

I only have one question, not that I will be ther anyhow, but WHY. Do we have to have this, I can sing shanties better than you. Can't we just ALL sing them. The best Shanty singing I remember was at the end of the "Songs of Sail" Festival in Penetanguishene. Every performer was up on the stage, no applause between songs, just song after song for about half an hour. Way too short a time, if you need a contest see how long you can keep it going for. I would not have won any how, so this could be premature sour grapes but it is my opinion. JohnB

Subject: RE: Shanty Competition at Saltburn Folk Fest
From: Charley Noble
Date: 20 Jul 01 - 06:05 PM

As long as the ground rules are spelled out, I think it's great to give an individual or group credit for doing a great job. I do hope there are lots of prize categories, including one for shanty chorus singers who can actually do useful work while singing.;-)

Subject: RE: Shanty Competition at Saltburn Folk Fest
From: GUEST,Mainbrace
Date: 21 Jul 01 - 01:06 PM

In answer to guest JohnB 's Comments. While I would agree in part with his comments that it futile to establish "" the Best Singer/musician ; as every singer or musician is unique"".However in my experience as a member of a local branch of "Comhaltas Ceoltoiri Eireann ".I initialy was also predjudiced against the Competition feature of the organisation.But is merely a method of stimulating interest and participation. Over the years I found it worked.It produced many musicians , many of them were quite superb.But ALL OF THEM helped to keep the Traditional Music Alive and Healthy.So the Shanty competition at Saltburn will Give a venue to stimulate an interest in shanties at a folk festival.It can only be a healthy thing to expose people who might not go to " A maritime Festival" to Sea Music. So apart from finding a winner in the competition we will all have a good sing.....CANT BE BAD! The worst thing we can do is take ourselves seriously. Mike

Subject: RE: Shanty Competition at Saltburn Folk Fest
From: Barry Finn
Date: 21 Jul 01 - 11:17 PM

I'd have to go along with you Mike. It's guite the ball to get together musically with others that wallow in like music all for the love of the song, no matter what the vehicle used to make it happen. The bonus is in finding out you've passed something on to someone who might not've picked up on it or to someone else whose just barely familar with the songs but are looking to find out more or in finding a singer/s out of the blue (like at 2:00 AM at Mystic aboard a schooner) who you can musically click with even if you know you may not get the chance to click up with them again. I'd love to join you & the others if it weren't for the family time & costs. Good luck & good times. Barry

Subject: RE: Shanty Competition at Saltburn Folk Fest
From: Mr Red
Date: 23 Jul 01 - 03:51 PM

Let's have a prettiest voice contest by all means and be genre specific BUT (there always is one)
when did you last SEE a shanty?

Bristol hosted a harbourfull of tall ships and paid megabucks for pop groups to pull the crowds in - they had shanty singers by the ton standing on the poop decks surrounded by ropes and only hanging on to them to steady themselves from the terrible harbour swell.
I bemoaned this to Chipenham FF and they did have a demonstration next year - the Plymouth? shantymen told me that it made them think about the songs and changed the habits of 30 + years and changed their renditions!
At Hull shanty festival the girl with the clip-board questions got my "chapter & verse" and next year they demonstrated - on the quayside not on ships but they DEMONSTRATED. Mind you the demonstration could have been on the ship used as the main stage but am I quibling? Actually yes

I'm know "shanty in anger" sessions do exist for I have seen Uncle Stan on video - and the songs are different - they sound like work is being done.
I once heard a well known shanty group (at Hull) do one so fast the lead man tripped over his own tongue - even a pump shanty on the Black Ball line would have been more sedate.
Yes it does all matter - it is CONTEXT. The general public can barely contain their dis-interest in folk songs but give 'em eye fodder and we may just draw a few more into the fold.
Now before I get out of my lather & crawl back in my soap box, dare I summerize? -

Let's have a SHANTY contest somewhere (not a singing contest).

Subject: RE: Shanty Competition at Saltburn Folk Fest
From: Charley Noble
Date: 23 Jul 01 - 05:35 PM

Hear, hear! Now my group has it's "work" cut out for it. Does make sense if you're surrounded by tall ships, and IF you're permitted aboard them, to demonstrate how the shanties were useful. All too frequently the promoters of tall ship festivals are amazingly clueless about any need for such demonstrations. About the only exception I can think of is the Mystic sea Port Museum where such demonstrations have been on-going for years.

Note, I'm not suggesting that concerts of sea songs should include demonstrations, although we ocassionally try to mime a capstan or pump with our crew and volunteers, but if you've got access to a tall ship, use it!

Subject: RE: Shanty Competition at Saltburn Folk Fest
From: GUEST,Mike(Mainbrace)
Date: 23 Jul 01 - 09:02 PM

This is for Barry Finn. Nice to get a chance to have a word with you Barry even this way.Joy has kept me up to date on your Progress.It was great news to hear how you were on the mend after such a bad time .With any kind of luck we will get the chance to share some songs again at Mystic or wherever.My wife Pat has been downthe same road this with a major Op for a tumour.The third time to have to do it.Like you she had the determination to get through it.I was delighted to hear that you back singing again. I will look forward to meeting up with you again.......All the best for now Mike

Subject: RE: Shanty Competition at Saltburn Folk Fest
From: Liam's Brother
Date: 23 Jul 01 - 09:15 PM

I'm leaving on Wednesday, Barry, and, traveling a circuitous route, I'm headed to Saltburn. If you can get down to New York with a suitcase big enough to fit you and sufficient cash to cover possible excess baggage charges, I am willing to check you in at the airport. Just one warning, however: not all aircraft baggage compartments are heated. Travel at your own risk. Also, there will be an additional charge London - Saltburn - London.

All the best,
Dan

Subject: RE: Shanty Competition at Saltburn Folk Fest
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 23 Jul 01 - 10:27 PM

Mike, I know what you mean about the nature of these competitions, competition with a small "p." My experience in Scottish fiddle competitions is that it's the craic at the sessions and parties, getting together with like-minded musicians, and when it comes to the competition itself, getting feedback from the judges on your singing, that makes competitions so valuable. It's always nice to get a prize for something, but there's so much more to an occasion like that. Good luck with your competition - sounds like a great bash in the making.

By the way, why not join the Mudcat? Membership is very easy, free, and it would be great to have your insights on sea music here.

All the best,

chanteyranger

Subject: RE: Shanty Competition at Saltburn Folk Fest
From: Barry Finn
Date: 24 Jul 01 - 08:02 PM

Hi Mike, good to hear from you, been awhile. Joy told me you were asking after me, thanks. I hope your wife is doing well & mended & I hope it's just as well with you, it's tough on both. Any plans on coming over, I'd keep a weather eye out for ya? Good luck & good singing at the festival, maybe we could hear about some of the highlights here. Till the next time, Barry

Hi Dan, you're just to kind, make me pay the freight charges for taking the great circle route, the long way via Cape Horn & then stuff me away with the underwear, it's a deal. Can you wait till I get paid, next month, after I'm back? Did I tell you I can do Rickshaw (sp?) & shoe shines, I got a great little running shanty, you have to be on your way to London though & have a bone in the mouth to sing it. Have a blast (could you not help it), Barry

Subject: RE: Shanty Competition at Saltburn Folk Fest
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 01:32 PM

Shellback Chorus will be performing at Saltburn this year, for those on the other side of the pond the chorus consists of about 75 singers Whoever can get to the venue turn up and indivduals lead a song backed by the chorus. Good solid stuff greta fun for both audience and performer.