BS: Cuba 2

Subject: Cuba 2
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 06 Aug 01 - 03:08 PM

Continued Cuba thread. I've enjoyed the conversation so far. I saw a TV news article saying that the Latin Music awards will be held in Miami and under the sponswer of the chief pro-embargo group, a couple of Cuban bands will be attending. This is the first gesture of reconciliation by the Cuban exile lobby, and it is being done by the younger people despite opposition from some of the older members. It is being done with the belief that freedom will come quicker to Cuba, if their people are allowed to see the benefits of American Society.

I hope it works out well and widh them luck.

Subject: RE: BS: Cuba 2
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Aug 01 - 04:59 PM

My impression while there was that the people were well aware of the benefits of American society, as well as the positive accomplishments of their own in getting rid of Batista's corrupt regime. Any cultural exchange should be of benefit in breaking down psychological barriers.

Remember, Castro came to New York in his first year in office, looking for help from the USA. He didn't get it. Cuba could have been an American ally all these years, but there were too many rich players who had had their fingers burned by Castro (when he nationalized their Cuban holdings), and they pulled strings in Washington. He then went to Russia for help, because they were the only other game in town, so to speak.

That's what happened during the Cold War.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Cuba 2
From: DougR
Date: 06 Aug 01 - 06:56 PM

LH: I simply don't remember, did Castro when he was leading the revolution, proclaim himself to be a Communist, Socialist, what? Did he promise to bring a democratic government to Cubans?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Cuba 2
From: Airto
Date: 07 Aug 01 - 08:49 AM

Sorry, didn't notice the new thread and put this in the old one:

Thanks very much, all of you, for a very worthwhile debate.

DougR, will you keep us posted on how that Bill you mentioned gets on with the Senate and the President?

Subject: RE: BS: Cuba 2
From: DougR
Date: 07 Aug 01 - 11:58 AM

Will do, Airto. DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Cuba 2
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Aug 01 - 01:26 PM

Doug - I don't remember exactly what he declared himself as back at that time. I've read the material, but the old memory has gotten hazy. I will have to go to the library and reread some of those books before I can definitively answer your question.

Democracy is always a relative term. What Fidel brought to Cuba was, I think, considerably more democratic than what preceded him...but not as democratic as what you and I enjoy in the USA or Canada.

I find that most societies have their own advantages and disadvantages. I've had friends who were literally dying because they simply could not afford dental care (most other medical expenses are covered in Canada, but not dental). In Cuba they would not be facing such a problem as the dental care is totally free, and good.

I can well understand how a person in that position might envy his counterpart in Cuba.

It all depends on what your particular situation is.

In my case, I love the Cuban climate, and have always had difficulties in dealing with cold weather. I also seem to thrive on their diet. There is no fast food or junk food in Cuba. It's all home cooking. There was a little cafe around the corner from the church community I was visiting in Cardenas, typical of the small cafe's one sees there. They are all unique...no chains...no brand names...and they have home cooking done right there on the spot in front of you. No microwaves, nothing like that.

It's sort of like small town life in North America in, say, the 1920's or something like that.

All the cafe's are run on a government license. As far as I can see that has utterly no effect on their unique character, it's a formality. If they were privately owned, I suspect they would be no different in appearance and product.

There are things I love about Canada, and things I love about Cuba. Different things.

I can only hope that as the embargo barriers come down, so will the Cuban society liberalize its political freedoms.

However, I've read quite a bit of pre-Castro history of Cuba, and I can tell you this...

If you allow total political freedom in Cuba, given the nature of the place, you will in short order have chaos and infighting like you wouldn't believe...and then fighting. It is what has happened every time a multi-party system was allowed in Cuba. In every case it has led to such instability that a military government eventually took over and shut it down.

Yugoslavia is a similar case in point. The moment the Communist iron hand was removed the place fell to pieces.

Cuba is not as bad in that respect as Yugoslavia, but it's bad. I believe Castro did the only thing he could have done in order to preserve an orderly enough situation to make his reforms in education, land distribution, medical care, and so on possible.

Had he tried to be Mr. Nice Guy and allow total political freedom it would have created an ungovernable mess, and the whole thing would have fallen apart in a year or two.

The only reason I say this is because I've read enough Cuban history to see how things go on that island. They're a very lively and passionate people. I think they almost need to have an exterior enemy (the USA or Spain) in order to keep themselves united as one people.

I strongly suggest you read some Cuban history yourself before judging these statements too harshly...or judging Castro out of context.

Anyway, it's an interesting subject, that's for sure.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Cuba 2
From: hesperis
Date: 07 Aug 01 - 07:21 PM

Blue Clicky to Part 1